PDA

View Full Version : Interesting thread on Sun Deck: What if?



OnBaseMachine
06-24-2010, 12:05 PM
What if you could bring back any Reds player's season and put him on this current team, who would it be? I'll make it easier, name one pitcher and one hitter.

I'll go with Barry Larkin's 1996 season as my choice for hitter. Yeah he won the MVP in 1995 but his 1996 season was even better as he became the first 30/30 shortstop in major league history (33 HR/36 SB) and hit .298/.410/.567 - .977 OPS and won a Gold Glove. I was tempted to go with Eric Davis's 1987 season in CF or Johnny Bench's 1972 season behind the plate but I felt shortstop was the biggest need. That combination of offense/defense at SS would make the Reds the clear favorites in the NL Central this season.

My pitcher would be Mario Soto's 1983 season in which he posted a 2.70 ERA in 273.2 innings with a 95 BB/242 K ratio and an ERA+ of 140. This addition would give the Reds a bonafide ace at the top of the rotation. I also strongly considered Jose Rijo's 1993 season and Tom Seaver's 1978 season.

Adding two talents like Barry Larkin and Mario Soto would surely put this team in the playoffs and probably the World Series.

Who would you pick?

Scrap Irony
06-24-2010, 12:21 PM
Frank Robinson's 1962 season would look awfully good in RF or LF.

Cy Semour's 1905 CF season would look great as well.

But I'd go with Larkin. Biggest difference between what could be and what is.

Johnny Footstool
06-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Yeah, Larkin in a landslide.

Cyclone792
06-24-2010, 12:28 PM
Larkin in 1995 or 1996 is the obvious choice if you're going straight up position to position. That would take care of the shortstop problem. One may also consider Cy Seymour in 1905 or Edd Roush in 1919 for center field.

If I were allowed to cheat a little bit, though, I'd probably take Joe Morgan in 1975 or 1976 and just move Phillips to shortstop.

For pitching, give me Dolf Luque's 201 ERA+ in 1923 (finished second in NL in IP too).

George Anderson
06-24-2010, 12:36 PM
If I were allowed to cheat a little bit, though, I'd probably take Joe Morgan in 1975 or 1976 and just move Phillips to shortstop.

.

I was thinking the same thing about Morgan.

I would go with Bench in 70'. Had he played that season at GABP he would have challenged 61' HR's easy and no one but no one would be stealing off him.

cumberlandreds
06-24-2010, 12:37 PM
I would go with Bench and his 1970 or 1972 season. He could handle the pitching staff and make a huge difference in that regard too.
Soto's 83 season. When he was on top of his game he was as good as anyone.

RedsManRick
06-24-2010, 12:46 PM
Larkin and Bench were my immediate thoughts, but I sure would like to have a 1962 Frank Robinson in LF. Played every day while hitting .342/.421/.624, good for 8.5 WAR.

westofyou
06-24-2010, 12:55 PM
This team could use a good LH starter, Noodles Hahn would help.

I'd also take Ted Abernathy's 1967 season

Johnny Footstool
06-24-2010, 01:00 PM
If you want to shore up the bullpen, how about Scott Sullivan circa 1999?

westofyou
06-24-2010, 01:06 PM
If you want to shore up the bullpen, how about Scott Sullivan circa 1999?

Thought of that too, but Abernathy was amazing that year with an ERA + of 299

George Anderson
06-24-2010, 01:07 PM
If you want to shore up the bullpen, how about Scott Sullivan circa 1999?

Maybe John Franco 1988.

reds1869
06-24-2010, 01:10 PM
I'll put 1977 George Foster in the mix. That would solve our need for a righty power bat in a hurry. 52 homers and a 1.013 OPS.

BCubb2003
06-24-2010, 01:10 PM
Like Franco. Any votes for Foster?

Roy Tucker
06-24-2010, 01:11 PM
Larkin at SS or Bench at C make the most sense. Very hard to ignore 2B Joe Morgan in 1975.

But I'd like to give a shout-out to 1977 George Foster in LF, 1963 Jim Maloney at pitcher, 1991 Jose Rijo at P, and 1954 Ted Kluzewski at 1B.

IowaRed
06-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Foster was my first thought, not a huge defensive lift but he might hit a few HR's in GABP

oneupper
06-24-2010, 01:21 PM
This team could use a good LH starter, Noodles Hahn would help.

I'd also take Ted Abernathy's 1967 season

Tom Browning or Danny Jackson might actually talk the same language as the rest of the team.

5' 9" 160 lb? Noodles is right.

westofyou
06-24-2010, 01:22 PM
Tom Browning or Danny Jackson might actually talk the same language as the rest of the team.

5' 9" 160 lb? Noodles is right.

Tom Browning, most overrated Reds pitcher of all time.

I wouldn't want him subjected to the GAB

backbencher
06-24-2010, 01:57 PM
Tom Browning, most overrated Reds pitcher of all time.


Tough standard. There are a shockingly small number of Reds pitchers who are even "rated."

The Reds all-time team would be a Murderers' Row at the plate, outstanding in the field, and as inept on the mound as any team in baseball (including the 90s expansion teams).

westofyou
06-24-2010, 02:01 PM
Tough standard. There are a shockingly small number of Reds pitchers who are even "rated."

The Reds all-time team would be a Murderers' Row at the plate, outstanding in the field, and as inept on the mound as any team in baseball (including the 90s expansion teams).

Franchise is over 100 years old, not 30, Tom Browning is not one of the best of that group, even if he was the best looking dog at the pug farm, he's still ugly.

cumberlandreds
06-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Tom Browning or Danny Jackson might actually talk the same language as the rest of the team.

5' 9" 160 lb? Noodles is right.

I thought about Danny Jackson too. His 1988 Season was pretty remarkable.
I had forgot George Foster's 1977 season. He may have hit 70 HR's in GABP.

LoganBuck
06-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Pete Schourek 1995.

redsfandan
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
What if you could bring back any Reds player's season and put him on this current team, who would it be? I'll make it easier, name one pitcher and one hitter.

I'll go with Barry Larkin's 1996 season as my choice for hitter. Yeah he won the MVP in 1995 but his 1996 season was even better as he became the first 30/30 shortstop in major league history (33 HR/36 SB) and hit .298/.410/.567 - .977 OPS and won a Gold Glove. I was tempted to go with Eric Davis's 1987 season in CF or Johnny Bench's 1972 season behind the plate but I felt shortstop was the biggest need. That combination of offense/defense at SS would make the Reds the clear favorites in the NL Central this season.

My pitcher would be Mario Soto's 1983 season in which he posted a 2.70 ERA in 273.2 innings with a 95 BB/242 K ratio and an ERA+ of 140. This addition would give the Reds a bonafide ace at the top of the rotation. I also strongly considered Jose Rijo's 1993 season and Tom Seaver's 1978 season.

Adding two talents like Barry Larkin and Mario Soto would surely put this team in the playoffs and probably the World Series.

Who would you pick?
OBM pretty much nailed it in the 1st post. To get this team into the playoffs Larkin (in either '95 or '96) and Soto ('82 or '83) would help the most imo. Yes, Eric Davis, Bench, Morgan, Foster, etc are all good picks. But, imo, Larkin would provide the biggest upgrade at any position. And, while you could argue for a few different pitchers, what Soto did on some pretty bad Reds teams was pretty impressive to me and he would be a true ace on this team.

Johnny Footstool
06-24-2010, 05:06 PM
Thought of that too, but Abernathy was amazing that year with an ERA + of 299

Ouch. And that's with more than 100 IP.

Mario-Rijo
06-24-2010, 05:44 PM
Larkin 1996 (just because I'm biased, though I really wanted to go JB)
Rijo 1993

Rijo
Cueto
Arroyo
Volquez
Leake

Pretty Sweet Rotation though I still wish I had a LHP in there but I'll settle for a genuine ACE.

Larkin SS
BP 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Gomes LF
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Hanigan C

Larkin really makes that whole lineup complete both offensively and defensively.

mth123
06-24-2010, 06:52 PM
I love this thread. I think Bench 1970 would be my position player. He's a huge upgrade on both offense and defense and while bashing Cabrera is trendy and somewhat deserved, I actually like him at SS more than I like Ramon behind the plate. The Reds haven't had a good catcher in so long that Reds fans don't know what one looks like anymore (and no, Jason Larue was a good guy and good team guy, but he wasn't a good catcher IMO). Larkin would be a huge improvement, but IMO Bench is a bigger upgrade.

As far as pitching goes, I'll go with Bucky Walters 1939 just to be a little different. 27-11, 2.29, 319 IP and NL MVP on a team that went to the World Series. He doesn't have the big K numbers that today's "in theory" numbers seem to like, but it was a different era when K's were not so common.

vic715
06-24-2010, 07:12 PM
This team needs a leadoff hitter. Give me Pete Rose 1973.

mth123
06-24-2010, 07:24 PM
This team needs a leadoff hitter. Give me Pete Rose 1973.

Good thought as well.

UKFlounder
06-24-2010, 07:24 PM
Bench was my first thought, but to through another new name out there, what about Mario Soto, 1982, 83 or 84. I'm not sure which was his best, but he was the "best" Reds starting pitcher I've seen, over more than 1 year like Jackson or Schourek. (I was born in 1973 - Soto's prime was in a perfect time in my development into a baseball fan.)

Will M
06-24-2010, 11:52 PM
I'll put 1977 George Foster in the mix. That would solve our need for a righty power bat in a hurry. 52 homers and a 1.013 OPS.


Foster was my first thought, not a huge defensive lift but he might hit a few HR's in GABP

Based on his poor UZR Foster had a negative WAR in 1977.





















:D

HokieRed
06-25-2010, 12:09 AM
I'd take Robinson from 1962 (or any year, for that matter) for my position player, and, though who knows how he'd do in today's baseball, I feel compelled to mention a pitcher from that same year, 1962, who put up one of the great, and I suspect largely forgotten, years for a Reds starter. Bob Purkey, 23-5, 2.81 ERA for 288.1 innings, 18 CG, ERA+ of 143, 1.124 WHIP.

REDREAD
06-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I think the best picks have been made, so I'll be different.

How great would it be to have Dibble at his peak in the bullpen?
The guy had amazing K/IP numbers.

Adding Dibble to the pen might help the teams' chances at winning the World Series more than adding Rijo/Soto to the rotation. I'm assuming Larkin is added to the lineup too, so we have a potential WS contender.

Danny Serafini
06-25-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm going to take pitcher Will White off the 1879 team. OK, it's cheating taking someone from such a different era, but you have to admit his 75 complete games and 680 innings pitched sure would take some heat off of a tired bullpen.

jojo
06-25-2010, 01:33 PM
Larkin and Bench were my immediate thoughts, but I sure would like to have a 1962 Frank Robinson in LF. Played every day while hitting .342/.421/.624, good for 8.5 WAR.

Ya, Bench's '72 on this team would be huge.

Degenerate39
06-25-2010, 01:44 PM
1. Jay Bruce RF
2. Brandon Phillips 2nd
3. Joey Votto 1st
4. George Foster (77) LF
5. Scott Rolen 3rd
6. Drew Stubbs CF
7. Ryan Hanigan C
8. Orlando Cabrera SS
9. Pitcher

westofyou
06-25-2010, 02:00 PM
I'm going to take pitcher Will White off the 1879 team. OK, it's cheating taking someone from such a different era, but you have to admit his 75 complete games and 680 innings pitched sure would take some heat off of a tired bullpen.

45 feet from the dish and not allowed to throw with his arm above his shoulder, he'd be toast.

Johnny Footstool
06-25-2010, 02:05 PM
I think Larkin's fielding is the deciding factor here. He would be a huge upgrade.

OnBaseMachine
06-25-2010, 04:08 PM
I think Larkin's fielding is the deciding factor here. He would be a huge upgrade.

Yep, .400+ OBP out of the lead off spot. 30+ homers and Gold Glove defense. He would tilt the division in the Reds favor.

GOYA
06-25-2010, 04:30 PM
Larkin and Seaver. (Rijo, 2nd choice)

Assuming we get them early in their careers.

Tempted to say Pete Rose. I think this club could use his fire.

westofyou
06-25-2010, 04:40 PM
Yep, .400+ OBP out of the lead off spot. 30+ homers and Gold Glove defense. He would tilt the division in the Reds favor.

Too bad he hated batting leadoff.

bucksfan2
06-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Yep, .400+ OBP out of the lead off spot. 30+ homers and Gold Glove defense. He would tilt the division in the Reds favor.

Barry Larkin was least productive batting first out of any position he batted in the lineup. I remember people talking about how he sacrificed his overall game when he was in the leadoff role in order to help out the rest of the team. But I do agree he would look real nice in the 2 hole on this current Reds team.

I am not so sure that I wouldn't take Jr. circa 2000. That was a pretty impressive season and that sure would look good in CF right about now.

jojo
06-25-2010, 04:44 PM
Bench's 72 and Larkin's '96 are of course both great upgrades. Bench had a historical WAR of 10.2 while Larkin had a historical WAR of 6.8 in 1996.

The question is how much of an upgrade would each represent over their current situation... it might be pretty darn close.

OnBaseMachine
06-25-2010, 04:44 PM
Too bad he hated batting leadoff.

Bat him second then with Phillips leading off.

StillFunkyB
06-25-2010, 07:58 PM
Pete.