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919191
06-25-2010, 09:04 AM
YouTube - Ray Knight & Rob Dibble bring out the rulers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RauddFfrNg&feature=player_embedded)

Always Red
06-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Knight: "I'm not disagreeing with your opinion; I know that I'm right."

classic

westofyou
06-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Dibble is a tool, his body language is completely off putting, add in his arrogance and he's a power tool.

CarolinaRedleg
06-25-2010, 10:20 AM
Oh where's Brandon Phillips, plowing into Wil Nieves and thumping his chest to get them back on the same page?

The Nationals can keep them both.

macro
06-25-2010, 10:27 AM
Ray Knight looks a lot older than I expected him to. I hadn't seen him in several years.

I have never liked either man, but I think Knight's point is better, and Dibble came off as an arrogant jerk.

Was this genuine conflict or a faux quarrel followed by a wink and a nod after the cameras were off?

Blimpie
06-25-2010, 10:43 AM
The only booth either guy belongs in should be filled with water and surrounded by cotton candy.

RANDY IN INDY
06-25-2010, 10:46 AM
I still think Knight could take Dibble. Nobody messed with Ray back in the day.

hebroncougar
06-25-2010, 11:23 AM
Dibble's a tool. I don't listen to MLB XM when he's on. He's the stereotypical know it all player, and acts as though he never did anything wrong. I wonder if he'll throw a baseball in the stands if he has a bad day as an announcer?

westofyou
06-25-2010, 11:28 AM
The only booth either guy belongs in should be filled with water and surrounded by cotton candy.

Awesome, I want to pay to throw.

cumberlandreds
06-25-2010, 11:50 AM
Dibble adds next to nothing as being analyst. He's basically a cheerleader. I always thought of him as your fat,drunk neighbor who likes to lean over your fence and say next to nothing to you. When the Nats play the Orioles,MASN pairs up the analyst from both teams. That's Dibble and Jim Palmer from the O's booth. Palmer basically runs rings around Dibble when talking about the game. It's actually kinda funny to listen to.

Always Red
06-25-2010, 11:51 AM
Palmer basically runs rings around Dibble when talking about the game. It's actually kinda funny to listen to.

Go figure- Palmer ran rings around Dibble while playing the game, too.

fearofpopvol1
06-25-2010, 01:07 PM
I like Knight actually. I've watched a few Nats games and he is far superior commentator to Dibble.

Johnny Footstool
06-25-2010, 01:10 PM
Dibble may be a tool, but he's right in this case. Pound the strike zone.

Knight's take that Strasberg didn't make good pitches at 0-2 is pretty ridiculous considering that he gave up only 6 hits and one run.

Spitball
06-25-2010, 01:17 PM
In the 1991 All-star game, I believe Dibble had Julio Franco behind 0-2 when he threw a 101 mph fastball right down the middle of the plate. Franco drilled a double that scored the only run of the game. With Franco's long swing and lack of patience, I believe Dibble could have come inside or high/away and blown him away. If he had only understood what Ray Knight was talking about...

Brutus
06-25-2010, 01:19 PM
Dibble may be a tool, but he's right in this case. Pound the strike zone.

Knight's take that Strasberg didn't make good pitches at 0-2 is pretty ridiculous considering that he gave up only 6 hits and one run.

Disagree completely. I've never heard of a good pitching coach not tell a pitcher to throw something out of the zone when you're up on an 0-2 count. You don't throw meatballs at 0-2. You work the corners, throw a fastball at the eyeballs, a breaking ball out of the zone or a slider on the black. You don't throw something in the zone on 0-2.

kaldaniels
06-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Disagree completely. I've never heard of a good pitching coach not tell a pitcher to throw something out of the zone when you're up on an 0-2 count. You don't throw meatballs at 0-2. You work the corners, throw a fastball at the eyeballs, a breaking ball out of the zone or a slider on the black. You don't throw something in the zone on 0-2.

Sure you do at some point. No meatballs, but you gotta pump an 0-2 strike in sometimes just to kep batter honest.

Brutus
06-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Sure you do at some point. No meatballs, but you gotta pump an 0-2 strike in sometimes just to kep batter honest.

Of course, but I'm talking generalities not specific exceptions. You're always changing the eye levels, mixing speeds, changing pitches and trying to be unpredictable. You clearly can't have a batter knowing you're always going to go out of the zone. But that wasn't the point of the discussion. Ray Knight was saying Strasburg was in the zone too much on 0-2. He's right... you can'd work like that too often.

Sea Ray
06-25-2010, 01:58 PM
Dibble is a tool, his body language is completely off putting, add in his arrogance and he's a power tool.

I agree. Who cares about his playoff co-MVP? He's so insecure; I wonder how he keeps getting broadcasting jobs

Mario-Rijo
06-25-2010, 02:13 PM
I think Knight said it best, Dibble and Strausburg have the fastball to get away with it (throwing strikes up 0-2) a vast majority of the time. Which also shut Dibs up.

Nasty_Boy
06-25-2010, 03:48 PM
I can't stand Dibble on XM Radio... I remember his favorite quote from back when he was Dan Patrick's side kick on ESPN radio was, "I played and you didn't!"

It was twice as bad when he and Kevin Kennedy were on together, but since they split them up it makes about half of the day that I can't stand to listen to MLB radio. The arrogance and general lack of knowledge on subjects dealing with teams like the Reds and the backtracking they do on different subjects is too much for me to handle.

_Sir_Charles_
06-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Plain and simple, they both came off like arrogant jerks. I've never listened to a game with either of them announcing, but that back and forth was just childish...on BOTH their parts.

westofyou
06-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Plain and simple, they both came off like arrogant jerks. I've never listened to a game with either of them announcing, but that back and forth was just childish...on BOTH their parts.

Knights not an announcer, he's the in studio guy

RedsManRick
06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
So for Dibble, a great outing means getting yourself in trouble and then pitching out of it. Apparently he'd rather that than not getting in to trouble in the first place.

icehole3
06-25-2010, 04:26 PM
I agree. Who cares about his playoff co-MVP? He's so insecure; I wonder how he keeps getting broadcasting jobs

Knight started throwing out his resume first, I agree with Dibble throw the ball over the plate how many times this year have you watched Cueto, wanting him to just put the ball over the plate, let them hit it please.

RedsManRick
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
While Dibble might not have had to use his brain much as a pitcher and could just throw 98 mph heat, most guys have to actually pitch -- give hitters what they're not expecting. As Knight said, on 0-2 the guy is already looking to swing; if you give him something fat, you're liable to get hurt. So there's nothing wrong with trying to get him to chase. Generally speaking I agree with the pound-the-zone philosophy, but not in that circumstance.

Dibble's insistence that this was "one of one of his best outings" was inane. He's had 4 outings. This was one of the best 4, for sure. But he did get hit a bit and it's entirely possible that was a result of being in the zone when hitters were looking to swing.

Johnny Footstool
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
Disagree completely. I've never heard of a good pitching coach not tell a pitcher to throw something out of the zone when you're up on an 0-2 count. You don't throw meatballs at 0-2. You work the corners, throw a fastball at the eyeballs, a breaking ball out of the zone or a slider on the black. You don't throw something in the zone on 0-2.

No one's saying you should throw a meatball, regardless of the count.

You throw a strike. Maybe it's in the zone, maybe it's just near the zone, but I don't believe in wasting pitches.

westofyou
06-25-2010, 04:32 PM
No one's saying you should throw a meatball, regardless of the count.

You throw a strike. Maybe it's in the zone, maybe it's just near the zone, but I don't believe in wasting pitches.

Is a pitch that is used to set up the next pitch a wasted pitch?

Nasty_Boy
06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
I've heard many different view points on the subject... but I had a college coach that pitched several years in the minor leagues tell the pitchers to get ahead with strikes and get'em out with balls. Basically saying that if you're ahead in the count and you can make the hitter expand the zone to make contact that the result is normally better than hitting a strike.

Roy Tucker
06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
It took 2-3 years for the league to figure out that Dibble couldn't throw his slider for strikes consistently.

But when he threw 100+ fastballs for strikes and then had the batter throwing the bat one way and their butt the other way on a slider in the dirt, it was a fun run of a couple years when Dibble consistently made MLB hitters look really bad.

But he is a tool. Sweet Lou kicked his butt and I think Knight could too.

Always Red
06-25-2010, 06:24 PM
But he is a tool. Sweet Lou kicked his butt and I think Knight could too.

I was waiting for someone else to say it! :thumbup:

I think Lou could still kick his ass, twenty years later- Dibble is all hot air.

Joseph
06-25-2010, 06:58 PM
He's a jackhole, but I like Dibble.

Sea Ray
06-26-2010, 08:54 AM
Knight started throwing out his resume first, I agree with Dibble throw the ball over the plate how many times this year have you watched Cueto, wanting him to just put the ball over the plate, let them hit it please.

No it wasn't Knight's resume. He was pointing out an example of the very situation they were discussing re: Strasberg. The fact he mentioned the World Series was to give it reference. Dibble's response was purely defensive and had nothing to do with Strasberg...nothing

Big Klu
06-26-2010, 12:59 PM
No it wasn't Knight's resume. He was pointing out an example of the very situation they were discussing re: Strasberg. The fact he mentioned the World Series was to give it reference. Dibble's response was purely defensive and had nothing to do with Strasberg...nothing

Knight never mentioned his World Series MVP Award--which the last time I checked, trumps a NLCS Co-MVP Award.

macro
06-26-2010, 03:59 PM
I still think Knight could take Dibble. Nobody messed with Ray back in the day.

A little spat between Knight and Eric Davis caused this episode in 1986.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Xxse3_HDTPg/RnJ8Pdh24JI/AAAAAAAAAfg/_HeaCjmQxhM/s320/mets-reds+brawl.jpg

:laugh:

RichRed
06-26-2010, 06:09 PM
Knights not an announcer, he's the in studio guy

He does do the occasional color commentary for Nats games, mainly if Dibble has a prior engagement. He was in the booth for the Phillips chest thump game.

I personally can't stand either of them so I say let the Nats have 'em.

icehole3
06-26-2010, 06:28 PM
No it wasn't Knight's resume. He was pointing out an example of the very situation they were discussing re: Strasberg. The fact he mentioned the World Series was to give it reference. Dibble's response was purely defensive and had nothing to do with Strasberg...nothing

whatever, he started it by bringing up the WS reference IMO, we will never see eye to eye on this, Knight IMO started this whole tough guy argument

Sea Ray
06-27-2010, 10:36 AM
whatever, he started it by bringing up the WS reference IMO, we will never see eye to eye on this, Knight IMO started this whole tough guy argument

Sounds to me like you overreacted to his comment just like Dibble did. Ray was only giving reference to the play he was describing. If he just wanted to "one up" Dibble he could have followed Dibble's playoff co-MVP award by mentioning his WS MVP award. Kudos to Knight for not doing that

George Anderson
06-27-2010, 10:57 AM
A little spat between Knight and Eric Davis caused this episode in 1986.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Xxse3_HDTPg/RnJ8Pdh24JI/AAAAAAAAAfg/_HeaCjmQxhM/s320/mets-reds+brawl.jpg

:laugh:

Knight was totally in the wrong to.

Davis slid in hard and Knight just punched him if I remember right.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-27-2010, 01:33 PM
Dibble is pretty unprofessional here.

Sounds like he and Knight have some baggage, but Knight handled himself much better in this little spat.

RFS62
06-27-2010, 05:58 PM
Knight would drop Dibble like a bad habit. Ray knows how to box.

Plus, he's right in this discussion.

westofyou
06-27-2010, 07:37 PM
Knight would drop Dibble like a bad habit. Ray knows how to box.

Plus, he's right in this discussion.

member of teh Golden Gloves

Story on the ED fight

http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2003/04/baseball_knight.php

Always Red
06-27-2010, 07:56 PM
Dibble is pretty unprofessional here.


Always has been. Probably always will be.

Big Klu
06-27-2010, 09:55 PM
member of teh Golden Gloves

Story on the ED fight

http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2003/04/baseball_knight.php



Tom Browning pinch-ran for Eric Davis after the fight. It's the only time I can remember a pinch-runner entering the game to replace a pinch-runner.

macro
06-27-2010, 11:36 PM
member of teh Golden Gloves

Story on the ED fight

http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2003/04/baseball_knight.php (http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2003/04/baseball_knight.php)

This line from that article caught me off-guard...


The brawl also helped cement the end of the line for George Foster, the only Met to stay on the bench; he was released not long after.

...because 1) I didn't realize George was still with the Mets in '86 and 2) I don't know what to make of him getting released for not fighting, as is implied.

Sea Ray
06-27-2010, 11:57 PM
This line from that article caught me off-guard...



...because 1) I didn't realize George was still with the Mets in '86 and 2) I don't know what to make of him getting released for not fighting, as is implied.

That's not why he was released, of course.

I can remember Dave Johnson interviewed at the All Star game that year and they asked him if he envisioned any changes for the second half and he said the only difference would be less playing time for George Foster. For him to say that it is clear that Foster was in a serious doghouse and was on his way out. He certainly knew it so why get involved in that melee?

George Anderson
06-28-2010, 12:12 AM
The baseballcrank story seems a little jaded towards the Mets and Knight.

Here is another article on the fight.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/06/09/red_cinergy_moment_no_24.html

Interesting comment below from Knight about Davis.

"He looked me right in the eyes, and I felt threatened. I had a real short fuse back then — and I unloaded on him. "

macro
06-28-2010, 01:44 AM
He looked me right in the eyes, and I felt threatened. I had a real short fuse back then...

"Back then" apparently extended several years past 1986. Wasn't there some sort of episode at a youth league game in the recent past?

Speaking of Knight, I really liked him at the time this article came out. I was holding a grudge toward Pete for leaving, and having Knight have a great season and the Reds make the playoff while Pete watched from his living room was sweet:

July 30, 1979

A Knight To Remember
Cincinnati's Ray Knight has made the fans forget Pete RoseŚwell, almost

Barry McDermott

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1095202/index.htm