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1990REDS
06-29-2010, 04:06 PM
Just heard an interview on my local columbus sports talk show with Marty Brennamen. They asked him with the first half winding down who he thought was the team MVP up to this point. His answer was Scott Rolen and I tend to agree. Was interested to see who everyone else thought was the team MVP up to this point?

PhillipsHead
06-29-2010, 04:18 PM
Considered their numbers are virtually identical...I'd split between Votto and Rolen. While it is refreshing to have a 3B who actually knows how to pick it, Votto has also improved year-by-year on his defense as well.

Votto is undoubtedly the heart and soul of our team and without him, we struggle. So I'd say Votto, but the tape of the tape calls it a tie...

Griffey012
06-29-2010, 04:48 PM
Considered their numbers are virtually identical...I'd split between Votto and Rolen. While it is refreshing to have a 3B who actually knows how to pick it, Votto has also improved year-by-year on his defense as well.

Votto is undoubtedly the heart and soul of our team and without him, we struggle. So I'd say Votto, but the tape of the tape calls it a tie...

Numbers wise they are pretty close to the same, clubhouse wise Rolen is far and above Votto with his overall effect on team chemistry and leadership, so I'd have to say Rolen.

Orodle
06-29-2010, 04:50 PM
I'm going with Rolen. Clutch bombs and defense.

bshall2105
06-29-2010, 04:50 PM
Arthur Rhodes

BuckWild03
06-29-2010, 05:03 PM
I think it's gotta be Rolen. I look at it this way. The guy has put together a solid career and persevered through a lot of injuries to put up the best numbers he's had in six years. He's a guy that the younger players, including Votto himself can look to and strive towards with their own careers.

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 05:22 PM
1st Rolen
2nd Leake
3rd Votto
4th Phillips
5th Rhodes
6th Arroyo
7th Cueto
8th Hanigan
9th Bruce
10th Gomes
11th Cordero
12th Hernandez
13th Stubbs
14th Masset (he's been asked to pitch more than any other pitcher)

GIDP
06-29-2010, 05:32 PM
1) Votto
Best OPS in the league, 4th highest OBP.

2) Phillips
Plays every day. Great D combined with bat that profiles great for his position. Scoring a ton of runs because his OBP has been on a tear almost .400 since being moved out of the 4 spot. .900 OPS since then as well. Probably the team MVP if it wasnt for the ABs in that 4 spot.

3) Rolen
Very Solid Defense. I dont think he has been gold glove worthy this year but hes doing more than adequate. His bat is out of his mind. Over all I think since he cant play every day hes not as valuable as Phillips.

4) Bruce
People hate Bruce, they are dumb. Since his 1-22 start or what ever it was his OPS has been close to .900. for his last 71 games hes been a .300 hitter, with a OBP of .375. Hes been a stud in right and has limited so many doubles just by his arm alone. Guy is a very valuable player.

5) Leake
He probably would have been above Bruce if it wasnt for the fact that hes a pitcher. At the end of the day I just cant put pitchers higher than very productive major league position players. Leake has been outstanding.

abish1572
06-29-2010, 05:40 PM
I gotta say Jonny Gomes... That dude is just electrifying... His stats even proves it!

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 05:58 PM
I gotta say Jonny Gomes... That dude is just electrifying... His stats even proves it!

His OPS is now lower on the season than Bruce's.

abish1572
06-29-2010, 05:59 PM
His OPS is now lower on the season than Bruce's.

Well bruce has been playing amazing lately... Gomes been in a slump... Every player goes thru a slump... Besides he still leads the team in RBI's

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 06:04 PM
4) Bruce
People hate Bruce, they are dumb. Since his 1-22 start or what ever it was his OPS has been close to .900. for his last 71 games hes been a .300 hitter, with a OBP of .375. Hes been a stud in right and has limited so many doubles just by his arm alone. Guy is a very valuable player.



While Bruce has been great "overall" lately, Bruce has absolutely choked big-time with runners in scoring position this season.

93 times he's come to the plate with a Runner on 2nd or 3rd or both, and he only has 26 RBI's to show for it and an OPS of .636 with a total of just 23 Total Bases. I can't consider someone MVP caliber for a team when they've choked for most of the year under pressure situations. That will change next season, though. One step at a time. He's made huge strides this season.

Contrast that with Gomes who's come to the plate only 76 times in the same situation, but has 46 RBI's and a 1.285 OPS to show for it. That's clutch. That's MVP-caliber. He's struck out only 11 times in that situation, while Bruce has walked back to the bench 24 times.

Kiss the Baby00
06-29-2010, 06:09 PM
1. Rolen
1a. Votto
1ab. Phillips

all these guys have been huge for us

GIDP
06-29-2010, 06:13 PM
While Bruce has been great "overall" lately, Bruce has absolutely choked big-time with runners in scoring position this season.

93 times he's come to the plate with a Runner on 2nd or 3rd or both, and he only has 26 RBI's to show for it and an OPS of .636 with a total of just 23 Total Bases. I can't consider someone MVP caliber for a team when they've choked for most of the year under pressure situations. That will change next season, though. One step at a time. He's made huge strides this season.

Contrast that with Gomes who's come to the plate only 76 times in the same situation, but has 46 RBI's and a 1.285 OPS to show for it. That's clutch. That's MVP-caliber. He's struck out only 11 times in that situation, while Bruce has walked back to the bench 24 times.

Fine if you want to just look at a smaller sample of ABs. Im looking at total production. Bruce is hitting better than Gomes on the season, and he plays D worlds better than Gomes. Gomes is a 1 trick pony. He does that trick well for the most part, but hes not the player Bruce is.

abish1572
06-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Fine if you want to just look at a smaller sample of ABs. Im looking at total production. Bruce is hitting better than Gomes on the season, and he plays D worlds better than Gomes. Gomes is a 1 trick pony. He does that trick well for the most part, but hes not the player Bruce is.


Gomes has a high BA plus he has more RBI's than Bruce... Bruce is still young next year we'll see :cool:

GIDP
06-29-2010, 06:23 PM
Gomes has a high BA plus he has more RBI's than Bruce... Bruce is still young next year we'll see :cool:

Bruce BA is higher, and hes also scored 15 more runs than Gomes.

Bruce OBP is also 20 points higher than Gomes.

I like Gomes, but he even with his amazing stat line with RISP isnt more valuable to me than Bruce has been.

Griffey012
06-29-2010, 06:34 PM
Fine if you want to just look at a smaller sample of ABs. Im looking at total production. Bruce is hitting better than Gomes on the season, and he plays D worlds better than Gomes. Gomes is a 1 trick pony. He does that trick well for the most part, but hes not the player Bruce is.

When you are looking at an MVP, you have to go with smaller sample sizes because you have to look at things like production w/RISP and w/RISP 2 outs. Either you are getting on base a ton and scoring runs, like Phillips, or you are knocking the guys in with runners on like Rolen, Joey, and Gomes.

Orlando Cabrera has a higher OPS w/RISP than Bruce. I love the guy, but he is not in the MVP discussion at this point in the season. Gomes will probably not be in the discussion by season's end and Bruce may well be, but right now he is not.

GIDP
06-29-2010, 06:38 PM
When you are looking at an MVP, you have to go with smaller sample sizes because you have to look at things like production w/RISP and w/RISP 2 outs. Either you are getting on base a ton and scoring runs, like Phillips, or you are knocking the guys in with runners on like Rolen, Joey, and Gomes.

Orlando Cabrera has a higher OPS w/RISP than Bruce. I love the guy, but he is not in the MVP discussion at this point in the season, I hope he is by the end though.

I put him 4th on my list. Thats not really close to being in the discussion I just think hes 4th on the team in MVP balloting.

I know you guys love to look at all these guys are doing with RISP but there is more to the game than just RISP numbers. Having good numbers with RISP doesnt make you an MVP candidate. It helps, but there are other parts of the game and thats where I think Bruce comes out higher than everyone but the 3 I listed above him.

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 07:05 PM
Fine if you want to just look at a smaller sample of ABs. Im looking at total production. Bruce is hitting better than Gomes on the season, and he plays D worlds better than Gomes. Gomes is a 1 trick pony. He does that trick well for the most part, but hes not the player Bruce is.

100 PA's over the first half of a season is not a small sample size. If it is, then the entire half of the season is a small sample size.

The 100 PA's is only 1/2 of the PA's for Bruce when there isn't a runner in scoring position.

Would really like to see Bruce strike out less when he's batting in a "more important" situation, like when there are runners in scoring position.

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 07:06 PM
Phillips is very close to being the MVP of this team.

He's the only player who hasn't had a slump this year.

Kingspoint
06-29-2010, 07:07 PM
BTW, Bruce is on fire right now.

GIDP
06-29-2010, 07:09 PM
100 PA's over the first half of a season is not a small sample size. If it is, then the entire half of the season is a small sample size.

The 100 PA's is only 1/2 of the PA's for Bruce when there isn't a runner in scoring position.

Would really like to see Bruce strike out less when he's batting in a "more important" situation, like when there are runners in scoring position.

Thats all fine and dandy, but Bruce plays great D. In the end like I have been saying hes a more valuable player. Gomes isnt bad, hes still good, but overall hes not Bruce. Thats my stance.

1990REDS
06-29-2010, 07:11 PM
Thats all fine and dandy, but Bruce plays great D. In the end like I have been saying hes a more valuable player. Gomes isnt bad, hes still good, but overall hes not Bruce. Thats my stance.

Bruce is also a much better baserunner.

redssince75
06-30-2010, 12:31 PM
1. Rolen
1a. Votto
1ab. Phillips

all these guys have been huge for us

These are the only 3 in the running. The whole Bruce v. Gomes thing is a huge threadjack, whoever wins that one is at best 4th overall.

Kingspoint
06-30-2010, 03:03 PM
Bruce!

ian_madden
06-30-2010, 03:04 PM
Phillips is very close to being the MVP of this team.

He's the only player who hasn't had a slump this year.

When was Votto's slump?
When was Rolen's slump?

Kingspoint
06-30-2010, 03:06 PM
When was Votto's slump?
When was Rolen's slump?

They've each had one (2 weeks in length). I'll look it up for you later.

UC_Ken
06-30-2010, 03:23 PM
Didn't BP have a horrible stretch in April?

GIDP
06-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Phillips started the year very poorly.

Kingspoint
06-30-2010, 03:56 PM
That makes everyone having had a slump then this year.

bshall2105
06-30-2010, 03:57 PM
That makes everyone having had a slump then this year.

Except Arthur Rhodes.:thumbup: