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FlyerFanatic
07-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Ha yeah, pretty good but no use for another pitcher of that caliber..Lee was going to be dominant. No room for Haren here with Volquez coming back and Bailey in September.

we dont know how volquez will be, and no room? for haren? really? uhhh goodbye harang. lol

KOBasinger
07-09-2010, 05:33 PM
we dont know how volquez will be, and no room? for haren? really? uhhh goodbye harang. lol

I'm bout half and half on it. I just don't see it happening. Money wise.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 05:33 PM
Where exactly is Harang going?


we dont know how volquez will be, and no room? for haren? really? uhhh goodbye harang. lol

FlyerFanatic
07-09-2010, 05:42 PM
Where exactly is Harang going?

pen?

brm7675
07-09-2010, 05:43 PM
you don't put your opening day starter, making 12+ million in the pen. The Cubs tried that and see what happened. Harang will be in the rotation as long as he is not on the DL.


pen?

FlyerFanatic
07-09-2010, 05:45 PM
you don't put your opening day starter, making 12+ million in the pen. The Cubs tried that and see what happened. Harang will be in the rotation as long as he is not on the DL.

first and foremost, he shouldnt have been the opening day starter. arroyo just didnt want too. secondly, who cares how much hes making. chapman is getting paid starter money and hes in the pen for the time being. :rolleyes:

brm7675
07-09-2010, 05:50 PM
Doesn't matter he was your opening day starter, he was your ACE when the season opened, HE is being paid ACE money. You can't compare Harang to Chapman, they are to totally different situations. Harang will not go to the pen there is ZERO chance of that happening.


first and foremost, he shouldnt have been the opening day starter. arroyo just didnt want too. secondly, who cares how much hes making. chapman is getting paid starter money and hes in the pen for the time being. :rolleyes:

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Can we change the name of this thread to Reds DONT want lee>?

What a pathetic attempt at a run for the series.

Way to show your team you mean to win walt.

We desperately need a lefty in this rotation.

At this point leave haren alone. We have plenty of strong Right handed arms.

We needed a dominant lefty like lee. :thumbdown:thumbdown

FlyerFanatic
07-09-2010, 05:57 PM
cant believe mariners traded within division, they must really love smoak for some reason

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:00 PM
Why do people assume the Reds blew it? What if the M's liked the Rangers deal better? What did you want the Reds to do, include Joey Votto in the deal? I mean I guess if we had offered Wood/Leake/Votto and Bruce we could have got him...:p:


Can we change the name of this thread to Reds DONT want lee>?

What a pathetic attempt at a run for the series.

Way to show your team you mean to win walt.

We desperately need a lefty in this rotation.

At this point leave haren alone. We have plenty of strong Right handed arms.

We needed a dominant lefty like lee. :thumbdown:thumbdown

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:00 PM
cant believe mariners traded within division, they must really love smoak for some reason

He's batting .200.

I gauruntee Yonder goes somewhere and turns out to be a much better ball player.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:00 PM
They are out if, it's just a 3 month rental, he won't be back with the Rangers next season, why wouldn't they?


cant believe mariners traded within division, they must really love smoak for some reason

Reds
07-09-2010, 06:01 PM
cant believe mariners traded within division, they must really love smoak for some reason

I'm sure they're of the thinking that he won't resign, and this year is already over (16 games back).

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:01 PM
your proof is what?


He's batting .200.

I gauruntee Yonder goes somewhere and turns out to be a much better ball player.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Why do people assume the Reds blew it? What if the M's liked the Rangers deal better? What did you want the Reds to do, include Joey Votto in the deal? I mean I guess if we had offered Wood/Leake/Votto and Bruce we could have got him...:p:


You cant tell me the reds werent able to make a offer with similiar/better talent and more money.

Your sarcastic remarks make no sense. if you would like to talk logically, then i will explain how the reds could have easily made a much better deal then what the M's got.

Walt must have just gotten stingy.

Walts gets on TV and says were going to win.

I guess he just meant were going to come close/win our division. Not the ship.

I think we need to have a strong dominant lefty like lee to be in the hunt for that.

Now the rangers have a hell of chance at getting there.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:06 PM
your proof is what?

The stats support opinions.

Do you have stats that support yours>?

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:08 PM
You are right we could have offered Leake/Wood/Stubbs and say Yonder and probably got him. The problem here is many Reds fans over inflate the value of their minor league talent most of the time, the deal didn't happen the M's got what they feel was the best offer, not sure how you blame the Reds?


You cant tell me the reds werent able to make a offer with similiar/better talent and more money.

Your sarcastic remarks make no sense. if you would like to talk logically, then i will explain how the reds could have easily made a much better deal then what the M's got.

Walt must have just gotten stingy.

Walts gets on TV and says were going to win.

I guess he just meant were going to come close/win our division. Not the ship.

I think we need to have a strong dominant lefty like lee to be in the hunt for that.

Now the rangers have a hell of chance at getting there.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:09 PM
BRM could you please stop writing your messages above the quote. Driving me nuts.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 06:09 PM
cant believe mariners traded within division, they must really love smoak for some reason

A 1/2 rent-a-player deal is much easier to do in the division especially when Lee has a 0% chance of resigning with the Rangers.


He's batting .200.

I gauruntee Yonder goes somewhere and turns out to be a much better ball player.
Very possible still because Yonder has been an enigma with the hamate injury obscuring his real talent level for the most part, but Smoak is no chump. He's having some trouble figuring out LHP right now, but he is still a huge huge prospect. Could look a lot like Lance Berkman if he figures out LHPs. The plate discipline is there, the power vs RHP is there. Smoak has shown that against MLB pitching. Alonso in my mind isn't the same prospect Smoak is.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:09 PM
yea, Yonder is playing where? This kid the M's got was playing where? The M's valued him more then Yonder so right there is more support that this kid from Texas may be better then Yonder. Exactly what has Yonder done to warrent so high expectations?


The stats support opinions.

Do you have stats that support yours>?

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:13 PM
yea, Yonder is playing where? This kid the M's got was playing where? The M's valued him more then Yonder so right there is more support that this kid from Texas may be better then Yonder. Exactly what has Yonder done to warrent so high expectations?

oh iono... ask the professional scouts when he was named one of the top prospects in the league.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:18 PM
A 1/2 rent-a-player deal is much easier to do in the division especially when Lee has a 0% chance of resigning with the Rangers.


Very possible still because Yonder has been an enigma with the hamate injury obscuring his real talent level for the most part, but Smoak is no chump. He's having some trouble figuring out LHP right now, but he is still a huge huge prospect. Could look a lot like Lance Berkman if he figures out LHPs. The plate discipline is there, the power vs RHP is there. Smoak has shown that against MLB pitching. Alonso in my mind isn't the same prospect Smoak is.

in my mind its the complete opposite. Smoak is up here already and and not getting it done.

Yonder is still unproven in the majors. But he hasnt been up here for 70g like smoak and still not getting it done.

Its not uncommon for big prospects to come up to the league and do very well right off the bat.

Hence look at STUBBS AND BRUCE. Pitchers dont know them very well at first and the hitters have a huge advantage.

Smoak came up and did the exact opposite. I would look at that as worse than not seeing the majors yet like yonder. Not to mention the ONLY reason yonder isnt up here is because we have votto.

scott91575
07-09-2010, 06:20 PM
oh iono... ask the professional scouts when he was named one of the top prospects in the league.

Do you really have poll of proffesional scouts? I would go with guys like Baseball America who actually do talk to scouts on a regular basis.

They put Smoak 13 and Alsonso 45.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/03/02/top.prospects/index.html

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:24 PM
in my mind its the complete opposite. Smoak is up here already and and not getting it done.

Yonder is still unproven in the majors. But he hasnt been up here for 70g like smoak and still not getting it done.

Its not uncommon for big prospects to come up to the league and do very well right off the bat.

Hence look at STUBBS AND BRUCE. Pitchers dont know them very well at first and the hitters have a huge advantage.

Smoak came up and did the exact opposite. I would look at that as worse than not seeing the majors yet like yonder. Not to mention the ONLY reason yonder isnt up here is because we have votto.


The only mind that counts is that of the "M's" and they value Smoak higher. Again the Reds tried and the M's liked the Ranger offer better, it happens all the time. Heck I think the Yankees offer topped the Rangers, but the M's didn't.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:34 PM
The only mind that counts is that of the "M's" and they value Smoak higher. Again the Reds tried and the M's liked the Ranger offer better, it happens all the time. Heck I think the Yankees offer topped the Rangers, but the M's didn't.

what was the yankees offer>?


And once again. The M's like the Rangers deal better becuase walt wouldnt make his deal better. It couldnt have been that he was unable to.

Like i said prior.

Heisey, wood, bailey, yonder, and other small prospects should have all been on the table for lee.

There's no way with those we couldnt have beat that deal.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:37 PM
what was the yankees offer>?


And once again. The M's like the Rangers deal better becuase walt wouldnt make his deal better. It couldnt have been that he was unable to.

Like i said prior.

Heisey, wood, bailey, yonder, and other small prospects should have all been on the table for lee.

There's no way with those we couldnt have beat that deal.


Why would you give up Heisey and Wood? Why would they want Bailey? We are talking about a 3 month rental and you want to give away good Major league talent for that? Thank god Walt was smart and didn't.:thumbup:

Reds
07-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Jocketty: It got down 3 clubs. We made a pretty substantial offer. They liked Texas deal better.

end.of.story.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:55 PM
Why would you give up Heisey and Wood? Why would they want Bailey? We are talking about a 3 month rental and you want to give away good Major league talent for that? Thank god Walt was smart and didn't.:thumbup:

Exactly your of the group that likes to keep prospects and not make moves just like the reds have been doing for the past decade.

Man what a great decade that attitude got us.

Reds
07-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Exactly your of the group that likes to keep prospects and not make moves just like the reds have been doing for the past decade.

Man what a great decade that attitude got us.


Jocketty: It was a deal we would have liked to get done to show our we're doing what we can.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Exactly your of the group that likes to keep prospects and not make moves just like the reds have been doing for the past decade.

Man what a great decade that attitude got us.

It took a decade for the system to get up to snuff and start producing all these players that got us to this point. It took the first 5 years to rebuild the framework, the scouting, the international scouting, the coaching, etc. that had been absolutely gutted under the Bowden years. Then it took another 5 years to move Bruce, Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Janish, Cueto, Wood, Smith, Ondrusek, etc. through the minors until they were ready to contribute to a winning ball club. That combined with some shrewd trades eventually got us to where we are. We languished because we were rebuilding while never really going all out in that philosophy. We never totally gutted the franchise like we could have which may have expedited the process.

But we didn't suck during all that time because we never made a big trade for a premier veteran starting pitcher. Very likely that would have put us farther away from being where we are right now.

Girevik
07-10-2010, 10:11 AM
oh iono... ask the professional scouts when he was named one of the top prospects in the league.

All that matters is what the Mariners thought. If they liked Smoak that much better, there isn't a whole lot the Reds could have done except overpay.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Exactly your of the group that likes to keep prospects and not make moves just like the reds have been doing for the past decade.

Man what a great decade that attitude got us.

You can't even compare the youth we have now with what the Reds had in the 90's and 00's. We have incredible young talent (did you see that Leake kid last night?) and you just don't hand it over when you have a limited budget.

Girevik
07-10-2010, 02:59 PM
You can't even compare the youth we have now with what the Reds had in the 90's and 00's. We have incredible young talent (did you see that Leake kid last night?) and you just don't hand it over when you have a limited budget.

You do if you think it's the difference between a shot at the Series vs. an early exit from the playoffs (or not making them at all).

brm7675
07-10-2010, 03:04 PM
You do if you think it's the difference between a shot at the Series vs. an early exit from the playoffs (or not making them at all).

With Dusty leading this ship you can Lee, you could Albert or whatever other All Star you want, it won't matter with Dusty managing.

arkimadee
07-10-2010, 03:48 PM
this thread is dead to me