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View Full Version : Anybody still want to include Wood in a trade?



OldRed1966
07-01-2010, 06:04 PM
After watching Travis Wood today are there still people out there that would like to include him in a deal for Cliff Lee or Dan Haren? Wood just turned 23 in February, and gave Reds fans a glimpse today of what he's capable of. There is no way I would include him in a deal for either Lee or Haren? What say the rest of you?

Vottomatic
07-01-2010, 06:08 PM
I was impressed with his outing today.

A rookie, first start, on the road in a hostile environment, against a lineup of some pretty good hitters whether they are producing right now or not.

Having said that. It is just one start.

OldRed1966
07-01-2010, 06:10 PM
I was impressed with his outing today.

A rookie, first start, on the road in a hostile environment, against a lineup of some pretty good hitters whether they are producing right now or not.

Having said that. It is just one start.



So your answer is? :p: :D

Vottomatic
07-01-2010, 06:13 PM
I'm not ready to trade him quite yet. I'd like to see a few more starts out of him.

Boston Red
07-01-2010, 06:16 PM
For Cliff Lee, definitely.

LeDoux
07-01-2010, 06:27 PM
I would make the trade in a heartbeat. The M's want low-cost, high potential players for Lee. If you cannot part with any player with potential you are out of the running.

TC81190
07-01-2010, 06:31 PM
Yep. You have to give value to get value. I'd still trade him for Cliff Lee. I'd take something proven for potential. He gave a nice start today, but Lee is a given. We're a contending team at this point.

brm7675
07-01-2010, 06:36 PM
I don't give up young pitching of any type for a rental.

redsfanmia
07-01-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't give up young pitching of any type for a rental.

Then you will not get a rental. The year picks you, you don't pick the year. If you have to over pay to get Lee or whoever then do it.

defender
07-01-2010, 06:59 PM
The Cubs have not been scoring runs and the wind was blowing in. For the right price, of course I trade him.

Mr Larkin
07-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Hit trade value may never be higher than today. Great first start, but that does not mean he is the next Steve Carlton.

Caveman Techie
07-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Great start today by Wood, but if I can flip him for Cliff Lee, I do it! The Reds have not been in the hunt for the playoffs in a long time anything within reason to push them over the top.

muddie
07-01-2010, 07:18 PM
I say no move yet. I am extremely proud of Travis' start today. This, and Leake's first start, were the only games of the year that I actually had my heart in. The LOB's for Cincy were a shame and made this game more interesting than it had to be.

All things considered, I'm very glad the Reds got this one.

Redeye fly
07-01-2010, 07:19 PM
It's a tough call for a team like the Reds. I voted no, but admittedly I may just be a little giddy after 1 start.

If you're the Yankees, of course you make that trade, because chances are you wind up signing Lee after the season anyway. Even if you don't, you still can go out and basically get whoever you want to fill that spot.

The Reds are in a position that I don't know that they've ever been in before in my years as a fan, and that is having a surplus of pitching that can contribute for the Reds or draw interest from other teams.I'm basically 34, btw, or I will be tomorrow, and I have considered myself to be a fan since 1986 or 1987. The organization really hasn't produced a bona fide successful starting pitcher in my mind going back to Tom Browning. Brett Tomko had a nice long career, but he was nothing special. Cueto could be on the verge, Leake has done nice things, Travis Wood just had a great start. Even LeCure gave a decent account of himself. Add in veterans like Harang, who hopefully has turned some sort of corner to at least be serviceable and Arroyo, plus Bailey, Volquez, and Chapman, and Maloney down in Louisville, and it's amazing how far we've come.

But the problem the Reds will have is can they continue it. Most of not all of us know full well the lean years we had, especially when it comes to pitching in our farm system. We remember the high draft picks, the first round picks on guys who were either ruined by injury (Howington and Gruler) or below average major leaguers (C.J. Nitkowski and Ryan Wagner). Wagner was of course well below average. Nitkowski as I recall had a nice moment or nice season or two. Unfortunately they weren't for the Reds. We remember the dumpster diving and reclamation projects, hoping that guys like Jimmy Haynes, Paul Wilson, Jimmy Anderson, Dave Williams, Jeff Austin (I think that was his name) could somehow be viable members of the starting rotation. It actually worked to some extent with Haynes (at least for 1 year) and Paul Wilson, although both fell off the cliff immediately and when they were done, they were well done.

The Reds aren't going to win many, or probably any bidding wars for top of the line free agent pitchers. The last one we got, as far as starting pitchers go, was Eric Milton, and we know what happened there. So if I'm the Reds, I'm not anxious to let go of promising young pitchers like Wood. Not unless I'm confident we've got the right people in our organization evaluating pitching prospects to where I feel confident that they can find some guys potentially as good or better in the following draft(s). If that's the case, then maybe you can take a chance dealing Wood or someone like that. I just don't want to see us go back to the lean years for 2 or 3 months of Cliff Lee. I mean, Wood might be a better fit in the rotation than Homer Bailey, you just don't know yet at this point.

FlyerFanatic
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
wood was impressive no doubt, but i actually expected that. i mean he was toe to toe for the #5 spot in the rotation in ST. oh, and if trading him means cliff lee, yes, trade him

Vottomatic
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
The Reds have to replace Harang and Arroyo in the rotation after this season.

Cueto
Leake
Wood
Volquez
Bailey

Have to remember that we're small market.

muddie
07-01-2010, 07:36 PM
The Reds have to replace Harang and Arroyo in the rotation after this season.

Cueto
Leake
Wood
Volquez
Bailey

Have to remember that we're small market.

This is potentially a good rotation. Chapman is out there somewhere as well. I think everyone has to realize that this organization has a lot of potential without giving away the minor league guys.

Kingspoint
07-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Thought it was a ridiculous idea in the first place.

krm1580
07-01-2010, 08:12 PM
I would trade him in the right deal. If the Reds are going to do a deal I would prefer they get someone who they have control of for more than 2 months though. Haren would be nice. Greinke would be better.

muddie
07-01-2010, 08:25 PM
I don't think the Royals could survive a Greinke trade as far as the PR would be concerned.

Zimmers
07-01-2010, 08:36 PM
I voted No but I am on the fence. It's one start and a damn fine one considering the scrubs are hitting .286 against lefties going into today. In saying that you have to give up pieces to get a piece. I love our Sp depth in the minors after all the lean years and scares me to give any of them up for a rental pitcher even for the postseason. It's a tough call but and one that can most likely will be debated on for some time. In a way we are sacraficing two pitchers for next year to win this year by doing this. Lee won't resign and wood would be gone.

In saying that, this team I believe has something special going on. We have rookie CF, 3 rookie Sp's that have stepped up, injuries and yet still winning! They never let a bad streak derail them like previous years and that's a awesome sign for such a young team. Jay Bruce said it best after this game, "we expect to win everytime we play. It's amazing how far that can take you"! Go for Lee, don't go for Lee who knows but it sure is great to be talking about potential and postseason again! :beerme:

The Voice of IH
07-01-2010, 08:42 PM
Great Thread!

I would trade Lee, mostly because as a post earlier said, you have to give value to get value. The Reds have something special going right now, and we are just a piece away from going over the top. With that said, I would love to have Wood with us in the pin or to take over Leakes' spot in the rotation if needed. I think we just have to sit back and repeat in our head "In Jockety we trust" ;)

krm1580
07-01-2010, 09:45 PM
I don't think the Royals could survive a Greinke trade as far as the PR would be concerned.

You are probably right. They are really in kind of a tough spot with him. I think they are a long shot to be competitive before his contract is up in 2012 and an even longer shot to resign him when it is up.

Not sure what I would do if I were them.

Maker_84
07-01-2010, 09:49 PM
it's only been one start against a bad cubs team. let's see how well he's doing in a month. we thought the same thing of Lecure at first

Red in Atl
07-02-2010, 12:47 AM
For Cliff Lee, definitely.

for only the rest of the year of Cliff Lee...nawww

Bailey's the odd man out and Harang is gone after this year. I'd keep Arroyo though...good leader.

Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Wood
Leake

You throw a different kind of looking pitcher up there everyday, and they are all good. And you have Chapman in the wings, with no pressure, maybe even pitching in the pen until a starting slot opens up...wow!

webbbj
07-02-2010, 12:54 AM
i agree i think cliff lee is the only pitcher i would trade wood for. sure haren you can have for next year but its not like hes been a dominant pitcher this year.

just wondering where does wood project to be? is he a future Ace of a staff or is he projected lower than that?

CincyRed44
07-02-2010, 04:10 AM
I voted no, but that was my vote long before his start today. Being a fan for many, many years I've seen our horrendous pitching over and over again. Now that we finally have developed some young, decent pitching prospects folks are crooning to trade them for a two month rental, of which, we have no way in H E double toothpicks of resigning during the off season.

Then you say, "We'll get two draft picks in next year's "deeper" draft when he signs with "whomever" in the off season." Problem, will these draft picks actually pan out, if so they will not be ready to help the big club for three to five years. All well and good but what about next years rotation after, Lee goes elsewhere, Harang is non-tendered and Arroyo is sent packing in the off season for marginal prospects. Replacing 3/5ths of our current rotation prior to next season will not be an easy task. I'm not giddy over a prospective rotation of Volquez, Leake, Cueto, Maloney and Bailey or worse, Owings and LeCure. Is there someone in this bunch that can throw 200+ innings without breaking down over a long season? If not then who do you replace them with that will be able to withstand the rigors if pitching every fifth day and able to provide quality starts most every outing?

If a trade is culminated using Wood as a centerpiece along with two or three of our top five prospects then we need a young, TOR starter in return that will be here for more than two months, hence my preference is Greinke from Kansas City. In the meantime, hopefully Chapman will develop into the pitcher we thought we signed and the next wave will be pushing the envelope to head north in a couple years.

swaisuc
07-02-2010, 08:50 AM
Absolutely I do, but then again I'm of the opinion that Cliff Lee makes the Reds a legit WS contender. When is the last time we were that close?

If the main casualty of that happening is Travis Wood, sign me up.
He's a definite sell high IMO.

Old NDN
07-02-2010, 09:02 AM
It would be nice to trade for someone that you could sign long term, but I don't think we could afford Lee. OTOH, if it gets us "there" this year, go for it. Nice dilemma to be in, for a change.

BigJohn
07-02-2010, 09:06 AM
The Cincinnati Farm team has a chance to compete with the REAL teams once in a great while, better strike while the iron is hot and make the deal and live with the cosequences!

brm7675
07-02-2010, 10:33 AM
couldn't disagree more, you don't mortage your future especially when you are a small market team for a 1 year possibility. We have the makings of possibily a very good and young pitching staff, I don't do rentals unless I get them for very little.


Then you will not get a rental. The year picks you, you don't pick the year. If you have to over pay to get Lee or whoever then do it.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 10:35 AM
You let harang walk, you resign Arroyo for about 2-3 years, you need his maturity and stability in a pitching rotation of young guys.


The Reds have to replace Harang and Arroyo in the rotation after this season.

Cueto
Leake
Wood
Volquez
Bailey

Have to remember that we're small market.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 10:37 AM
I would offer them Homer and say Yolander for Lee, but I don't trade either Wood or Leake for a 3 month rental. Heck I don't deal either for Haren either, only maybe Grenkie.

Pony Boy
07-02-2010, 10:38 AM
Just to put Wood's great start into perspective. D'Backs pitcher Barry Enright gave up one ER in his first ML start against the Cards on Wednesday (although he did have a less than impressive 1.6 WHIP). Enright is considered a borderline top-20 prospect within the D'Backs system. Even very good ML lineups like the Cards struggle with pitchers that they have never seen before.

I would trade Wood in a heartbeat.

thorn
07-02-2010, 10:42 AM
I would offer them Homer and say Yolander for Lee, but I don't trade either Wood or Leake for a 3 month rental. Heck I don't deal either for Haren either, only maybe Grenkie.


Agree with this. Woods, no, Baily yes.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 10:48 AM
For Cliff Lee, definitely.

If he is what it takes to get Cliff Lee, I agree. Most of what I read on this board is that everyone is tired of losing, that they never do anything significant at the trade deadline, blah, blah, blah, blah-freaking blah. Cliff Lee gives them an outstanding chance to win Now!!!!!!! Which,I think, is what everybody wants. Is he a guarantee? No. Is Wood a guaranteed keeper? The answer also would be no.

If you have to include Wood in a trade to get Lee, do it and try to win the freakin' thing!!!!!

brm7675
07-02-2010, 10:51 AM
It's sad how a little winning ruins people's perspective. Okay you deal Wood and other prospects for a 3 month rental of Lee...what do you do next year, or the following year and so on?

markymark69
07-02-2010, 11:01 AM
It's sad how a little winning ruins people's perspective. Okay you deal Wood and other prospects for a 3 month rental of Lee...what do you do next year, or the following year and so on?

Do you want to try to win or not! You can't have it both ways. You can't hold on your trading chips and let the big fish get away and then piss and moan because your team continues to lose or comes up short!!!!

How many more next years do you guys (and ladies if you're out there) want to go through!?! If this organization can't survive without Travis Wood to get a rental player who has a track record that could put us over the top, then we do not have the depth that we think we have.

And, I like all these fortune tellers out here who are automatically saying that we can't re-sign Cliff Lee. If you take Harang and Arroyo or Cordero off the books you have a truck load of money to sign Lee.

Caveman Techie
07-02-2010, 11:02 AM
It's sad how a little winning ruins people's perspective. Okay you deal Wood and other prospects for a 3 month rental of Lee...what do you do next year, or the following year and so on?

I let Arroyo and Harang walk and offer Lee 20 million dollars a year to stay. Then have a rotation of:

Lee
Cueto
Volquez
Leake
Chapman/Maloney/Wood (whichever wasn't traded)

Vottomatic
07-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Jocketty traded for and signed a few big names while in St. Louis, such as McGwire. My gut says they won't do it, but based on Jocketty's past, never say never.

So I'd like to see them trade for Lee and sign him long term. I wish we could afford to re-sign Arroyo, if he would take less like Rolen did.......maybe $8M per year? I assume Wood would have to be part of that deal to get Lee.

I'm not sold on Bailey anymore. I think his injury may be the beginning of a chronic situation. Plus, other than his hot stretch at the end of last season, he doesn't seem to be putting it together like Cueto is.

Cliff Lee
Bronson Arroyo
Johnny Cueto
Edison Volquez
Mike Leake

with Chapman and Klinker in the wings.

If Lee pitches well, he will always be able to be traded if things go south.

My pitch to Lee to get him to sign long term is that we have a young but maturing team coming into their own. We have the #1 offense in the national league. We have a solid rotation for him to anchor. And we're working on bolstering the bullpen. We're the up and coming team that plans to contend for awhile. And that teams like the Yankees are tapped out with aging players and guys like Texeira aren't getting it done.

Then I'd sign JJ Putz in the off season, as he's a FA then. Start thinking and preparing for Cordero being gone after next season.

The financial consideration is that Votto, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez and Bray are all arbitration eligible after this season according to Cot's Baseball Contracts.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 11:15 AM
We are winning without Lee and you want to give away the farm for what maybe a few more wins this season? What are your plans for next year or 2012 and such. Again I offer them Homer and yolander and maybe a Single A guy, but I don't offer Wood or Leake.

Do you really think the Reds have the monies to sign Lee compared to say the Yankees, Red Sox, Angles, Cards and such? Lee is going to get CC type money, and that is money the Reds don't have. Don't forget we need to ink Votto, Bruce and other young players first.


Do you want to try to win or not! You can't have it both ways. You can't hold on your trading chips and let the big fish get away and then piss and moan because your team continues to lose or comes up short!!!!

How many more next years do you guys (and ladies if you're out there) want to go through!?! If this organization can't survive without Travis Wood to get a rental player who has a track record that could put us over the top, then we do not have the depth that we think we have.

And, I like all these fortune tellers out here who are automatically saying that we can't re-sign Cliff Lee. If you take Harang and Arroyo or Cordero off the books you have a truck load of money to sign Lee.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 11:19 AM
A) How many years at 20 million do you offer Lee? Are we talking 5 and a outlay of $100 million because that is what he is going to want.

B) How do you then pay for Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Phillips and other young players?


I let Arroyo and Harang walk and offer Lee 20 million dollars a year to stay. Then have a rotation of:

Lee
Cueto
Volquez
Leake
Chapman/Maloney/Wood (whichever wasn't traded)

Caveman Techie
07-02-2010, 11:29 AM
A) How many years at 20 million do you offer Lee? Are we talking 5 and a outlay of $100 million because that is what he is going to want.

B) How do you then pay for Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Phillips and other young players?

How many more tickets get sold when the Reds make a legitimate run at the post season? How about if they go deep in the post season? Hell how much money would the Reds bring in if they make it to the World Series?

Arroyo this year is making 11.5 Million dollars
Harrang this year is making 12.5 Million dollars

By letting those two walk you are freeing up more than enough money for Lee. Votto and Bruce still have a few years before they get expensive so some of the new money coming in could go to sign them to long term deals.

This is the model that the Cardinals followed and they succeeded in a mid-sized market. Why can't we?

I'm tired of the excuses, it's time for the Reds to grow up and start playing with the big boys. They have been handed a legitimate shot to do just that this season and if it takes Wood and Alonso to give the Reds the shot in the arm they need for that second half push then so be it.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 11:34 AM
A team with a total team budget of around $80 million can not spend $100 million on 1 player and expect to keep young talent around. We are looking at 30-40 million on Votto alone, and then you have others. We are not a major market team with a HUGE TV deal, we win via limited FA pickups at reasonable prices and young players. We now have talented young players, lets do this like the Rays and we can win and be in the World Series. If I am going to spend out BIG money like say the Twins did on 1 player, it's not going to be a pitcher, it's going to be to somone like Joey Votto who plays every day and brings more to the table then Cliff Lee ever will.

BTW, with Cliff Lee how many WS did the Indians go to and win? With CLiff Lee how many WS did the Phillies win?


How many more tickets get sold when the Reds make a legitimate run at the post season? How about if they go deep in the post season? Hell how much money would the Reds bring in if they make it to the World Series?

Arroyo this year is making 11.5 Million dollars
Harrang this year is making 12.5 Million dollars

By letting those two walk you are freeing up more than enough money for Lee. Votto and Bruce still have a few years before they get expensive so some of the new money coming in could go to sign them to long term deals.

This is the model that the Cardinals followed and they succeeded in a mid-sized market. Why can't we?

I'm tired of the excuses, it's time for the Reds to grow up and start playing with the big boys. They have been handed a legitimate shot to do just that this season and if it takes Wood and Alonso to give the Reds the shot in the arm they need for that second half push then so be it.

Red in Atl
07-02-2010, 11:39 AM
The Cincinnati Farm team has a chance to compete with the REAL teams once in a great while, better strike while the iron is hot and make the deal and live with the cosequences!

The Reds are in First Place because of their FARM team. They finally realized that there's no way for a small market to win, unless they develop from within. That means you have to let the kids play.

Do you really think throwing away a young talent like Wood for a 3 month rental of Lee is going to beat the Yankees?

If these guys win a WS it's only going to happen by the 1990 standard. An underdog with the perfect complement of role players and veterans and guys having career years, who upset the big dogs.

Much more important to keep the good players you can afford for the long haul, so we can watch good baseball all year, rather than go to one WS every 20 years.

Now if you would trade Bailey, Alfonzo and Maloney for Lee, I'd be OK with it.

Caveman Techie
07-02-2010, 11:57 AM
A team with a total team budget of around $80 million can not spend $100 million on 1 player and expect to keep young talent around. We are looking at 30-40 million on Votto alone, and then you have others. We are not a major market team with a HUGE TV deal, we win via limited FA pickups at reasonable prices and young players. We now have talented young players, lets do this like the Rays and we can win and be in the World Series. If I am going to spend out BIG money like say the Twins did on 1 player, it's not going to be a pitcher, it's going to be to somone like Joey Votto who plays every day and brings more to the table then Cliff Lee ever will.

BTW, with Cliff Lee how many WS did the Indians go to and win? With CLiff Lee how many WS did the Phillies win?

So you're not willing to spend 20 million on Lee, but you'll spend 30 - 40 million on Votto? Don't get me wrong I love Votto, but not for that much. Right now there is only one player in baseball making over 30 million a year and that is A-Rod.

I honestly think Lee could be had for less than 20 million but I think it might take up to that amount.

And to answer your question, I never said win the WS I said get there. So to answer your question Phillies got to 1 WS with Lee, and the Indians made it to 1 AL Championship series. I'll take making it to the postseason over not.

lidspinner
07-02-2010, 11:57 AM
it will be interesting to see this thread in 3 months from now....that is when we will be able to judge Travis Wood a little better....MLB batters watch film and read svout sheets and they get a feel for pitchers....they had nothing to go on for Travis Wood,,,you see this all the time with other rookies....they do well their 1st start or 2 then they level out....Lecure did the same thing once batters got a sheet on him.

Travis Wood has great stuff, not over powering stuff or dominant stuff but he has enough to keep in the league for a long time ala Jamie Moyer.....lets wait and see what he does over the course of 10-15 starts and then decide if he is an anchor to our rotation or not.....

With that said, I do not trade him for a Cliff Lee unless Cliff is signing here long term.....I do however trade Travis for a Dan Haren or Zack G....those guys at least we would control for more than a few months...

Worse case is we trade Wood for Cliff Lee then our offense falls off the face of the earth and we dont make the playoffs....POOF, gone goes Lee and Travis Wood....Best case is we Trade Wood for Lee and Cliff takes us deep into the playoffs, maybe further and see's a alot of potential in our team and decides to finish his career here. Not out of the question from what I have read about Cliff Lee, he is more into wanting to fit in to the right team as opposed to making the most money.....but then again thats what everyone says until the Yanks throw 100 mill at him. hard to pass up that loot.

IMHO, Bringing Travis Wood up to make starts this early was nothing more than an audition to other FO's to show them what he has....The Reds brass wanted to showcase his talents for all to see and up his value....and it might just work....

Pony Boy
07-02-2010, 11:59 AM
We are winning without Lee and you want to give away the farm for what maybe a few more wins this season? What are your plans for next year or 2012 and such. Again I offer them Homer and yolander and maybe a Single A guy, but I don't offer Wood or Leake.

Do you really think the Reds have the monies to sign Lee compared to say the Yankees, Red Sox, Angles, Cards and such? Lee is going to get CC type money, and that is money the Reds don't have. Don't forget we need to ink Votto, Bruce and other young players first.

Trading for Lee isnt about getting a few more wins (although that is certainly part of it), it's about having a fighting chance if we get into the playoffs. You need a true ace in the playoffs.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:06 PM
Right now I would offer Votto a 6 year deal for around 90 million or about $15 million a year. With Lee you are looking on the low end of having to offer $20 million per year and he is going to want a 5-6 year deal so you would be in the hole for $100-120 million on a pitcher. Sorry but pitchers only pitch in about 30-35 games a season, Votto will give me 145-155 games a year for those 6 years.

We can make the playoffs right now with the Roster we have.



So you're not willing to spend 20 million on Lee, but you'll spend 30 - 40 million on Votto? Don't get me wrong I love Votto, but not for that much. Right now there is only one player in baseball making over 30 million a year and that is A-Rod.

I honestly think Lee could be had for less than 20 million but I think it might take up to that amount.

And to answer your question, I never said win the WS I said get there. So to answer your question Phillies got to 1 WS with Lee, and the Indians made it to 1 AL Championship series. I'll take making it to the postseason over not.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:06 PM
We are winning without Lee and you want to give away the farm for what maybe a few more wins this season? What are your plans for next year or 2012 and such. Again I offer them Homer and yolander and maybe a Single A guy, but I don't offer Wood or Leake.

Do you really think the Reds have the monies to sign Lee compared to say the Yankees, Red Sox, Angles, Cards and such? Lee is going to get CC type money, and that is money the Reds don't have. Don't forget we need to ink Votto, Bruce and other young players first.

We are winning without Lee, you are correct. But, I'm not talking about giving away the farm. I'm talking about Wood and probably two others, that's not giving away the farm. None of which, other than Wood, is on the Major League roster at present.

Alonso, maybe and the Mariners have talked about a young catching prospect, which is probably Mesoraco. With guys like Maloney, Chapman, Klinker, etc in the minors, plus Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, LeCure... The pitching depth is there.

Alonso, where is he going to play for the Reds? Votto is not going anywhere and Yonder likely can't play any other position unless the NL goes over to the dark side and adds the DH. If you believe that Frazier, Francisco, Cozart, Sappelt, etc. can advance and ultimately be with the big club, one of those guys is going to be in left field, plus you still have Heisey and Dickerson. And in the immediate future you still have Gomes and Nix.

Mesoraco appears to still be a long way from the big leagues, not to mention you just drafted a catcher. How does losing any of three players really harm an organization that I keep reading on this board is stacked with talent? In exchange you get, according to just about every expert in the game, the best starter in baseball and certainly most coveted pitcher this July trade deadline.

As far as the guy who asked how many WS did Lee win with Cleveland and Philly? Check out his post-season numbers last season: 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA, 33 K's and 6 walks - including 2-0 in the World Series. Cliff Lee was not the reason the Phillies lost the World Series.

Ask the Brewer fans if it was worth it to go to the playoffs by adding Sabathia? I guarantee it's an overwhelming yes.

I wonder if some on this board really want the Reds to win. I think some are so happy complaining about whatever with this organization that they want to keep the status quo.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:18 PM
So you are willing to throw away the future (which is what the Brewers did with getting CC) for a "chance" of the playoffs this season? What makes you think the present pitchers we have can't get the job done?

The Reds are winning, they are 10 games over .500 and 1.5 games up on the Cards. Instead of "giving away" our young players why not let them mature and be successful here for the next 5-6- or 7 years?:thumbup:


We are winning without Lee, you are correct. But, I'm not talking about giving away the farm. I'm talking about Wood and probably two others, that's not giving away the farm. None of which, other than Wood, is on the Major League roster at present.

Alonso, maybe and the Mariners have talked about a young catching prospect, which is probably Mesoraco. With guys like Maloney, Chapman, Klinker, etc in the minors, plus Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, LeCure... The pitching depth is there.

Alonso, where is he going to play for the Reds? Votto is not going anywhere and Yonder likely can't play any other position unless the NL goes over to the dark side and adds the DH. If you believe that Frazier, Francisco, Cozart, Sappelt, etc. can advance and ultimately be with the big club, one of those guys is going to be in left field, plus you still have Heisey and Dickerson. And in the immediate future you still have Gomes and Nix.

Mesoraco appears to still be a long way from the big leagues, not to mention you just drafted a catcher. How does losing any of three players really harm an organization that I keep reading on this board is stacked with talent? In exchange you get, according to just about every expert in the game, the best starter in baseball and certainly most coveted pitcher this July trade deadline.

As far as the guy who asked how many WS did Lee win with Cleveland and Philly? Check out his post-season numbers last season: 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA, 33 K's and 6 walks - including 2-0 in the World Series. Cliff Lee was not the reason the Phillies lost the World Series.

Ask the Brewer fans if it was worth it to go to the playoffs by adding Sabathia? I guarantee it's an overwhelming yes.

I wonder if some on this board really want the Reds to win. I think some are so happy complaining about whatever with this organization that they want to keep the status quo.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:21 PM
We can make the playoffs right now with the Roster we have.

Even if St. Louis gets Lee or Haren? Carpenter, Wainwright, Lee or Carpenter, Wainwright and Haren would be a very formidable three at the top of the rotation, especially with Jaime Garcia at the four spot. You know the Cardinals are not going to stand pat, unless they aren't taking the Reds seriously.

Add to it that the Reds have to Harang come through, whether Volquez returns to form or not.

If the Cards do not make a move I agree with you that the Reds currently have the roster to make the playoffs. If they do make a move, especially for one of the two mentioned above then I'm not so sure.

Roush's socks
07-02-2010, 12:26 PM
I don't think the Reds should trade for Lee because they can't afford him long term, and trading away young talent for a rental is always stupid. The Reds need to save salary space to keep Votto, Cueto, Bruce etc.

IMO now is the time to "stay the course" and let the youngsters develop. Volquez is coming back. Wood is a good replacement for the Lecure/Bailey spot.

Just say "no" to giant contracts for veteran players. Anyone remember Griffey and how that worked out?

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:26 PM
So you are willing to throw away the future (which is what the Brewers did with getting CC) for a "chance" of the playoffs this season? What makes you think the present pitchers we have can't get the job done?

The Reds are winning, they are 10 games over .500 and 1.5 games up on the Cards. Instead of "giving away" our young players why not let them mature and be successful here for the next 5-6- or 7 years?:thumbup:

You didn't answer my question? How are trading away those three guys - throwing away the future? Combined they have played one major league game.

The present pitchers can get it done - but if St. Louis makes a move and you know they will for Haren or Lee then that's a game-changer.

Roush's socks
07-02-2010, 12:28 PM
You didn't answer my question? How are trading away those three guys - throwing away the future? Combined they have played one major league game.

The present pitchers can get it done - but if St. Louis makes a move and you know they will for Haren or Lee then that's a game-changer.

You're not throwing away the future by trading Wood. The problem is spending such a big chunk of your payroll on one player when the Reds need to sign all of their young studs to long term contracts.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:31 PM
So you are willing to throw away the future (which is what the Brewers did with getting CC) for a "chance" of the playoffs this season?


Sure as heck would beat the last 10 years.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:32 PM
The Cards might add Haren, I don't see them getting Lee. I see Lee ending up in either NY, LA or maybe Boston. Plus the Cards have good pitching now and are struggling, their problem isn't pitching it's their offense. Add all the arms you want, if you can't score you can't win. Also remember we don't have to beat the Cards to make the playoffs...


Even if St. Louis gets Lee or Haren? Carpenter, Wainwright, Lee or Carpenter, Wainwright and Haren would be a very formidable three at the top of the rotation, especially with Jaime Garcia at the four spot. You know the Cardinals are not going to stand pat, unless they aren't taking the Reds seriously.

Add to it that the Reds have to Harang come through, whether Volquez returns to form or not.

If the Cards do not make a move I agree with you that the Reds currently have the roster to make the playoffs. If they do make a move, especially for one of the two mentioned above then I'm not so sure.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:35 PM
What is one of the most valuable commiditys in pro baseball? It's left handed pitching, and especially starting left handed pitching. So you want to give away a young, cheap good left handed pitcher who could be with this team for 5-6-7 seasons for 3 months of Lee? To me that is throwing away our future. Also the Cards already have 3 very good/great pitchers and exactly how well is that working for them? They have one of the best 1-2 pitchers in baseball and their record is what? How many 'quality' starts do they have and their record is what? Also remember we don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.


You didn't answer my question? How are trading away those three guys - throwing away the future? Combined they have played one major league game.

The present pitchers can get it done - but if St. Louis makes a move and you know they will for Haren or Lee then that's a game-changer.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:37 PM
You're not throwing away the future by trading Wood. The problem is spending such a big chunk of your payroll on one player when the Reds need to sign all of their young studs to long term contracts.

As far as Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Leake. The Reds don't have to lock them up for about three more years. Which could coincide with a three-year deal for Lee. I'm not saying sign Lee, but I disagree with the notion that it can't be done, which is why most people are not willing to go with a trade for him.

defender
07-02-2010, 12:40 PM
The Reds starting lineup (except Stubbs and Cabrera) are all hitting at the high end of expectations. You can't look so hard to the future, that you miss the opportunity you have now.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 12:46 PM
What is one of the most valuable commiditys in pro baseball? It's left handed pitching, and especially starting left handed pitching. So you want to give away a young, cheap good left handed pitcher who could be with this team for 5-6-7 seasons for 3 months of Lee? To me that is throwing away our future. Also the Cards already have 3 very good/great pitchers and exactly how well is that working for them? They have one of the best 1-2 pitchers in baseball and their record is what? How many 'quality' starts do they have and their record is what? Also remember we don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.

You're making the assumption that Wood is going to be good after one start in the big leagues. He may be and I hope he is.

Give away? For an established starter who could put you over the top this season? If I asking for Ted Lilly in return that would be giving him away - not for Cliff Lee.

Let's not talk like the Cards are way out of this thing, they have had some injuries (their four and five right now in the rotation are very bad) and their bullpen is not as good as the Reds IMO, but they are still right on our heels - I want to bury them and that's why I would like to see a move like this and I think a move like this would certainly help accomplish that.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:46 PM
Stubbs and Leake I agree, but if you don't lock up Bruce adn Votto now it's only going to cost you more later. Plus, there is no way in heck Lee is going to sign a 3 year deal. He is going to want a minimum 5 year deal, but more like 6 or 7 and at anywhere between 18-22 million per season. Again WE CAN"T afford him long term.


As far as Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Leake. The Reds don't have to lock them up for about three more years. Which could coincide with a three-year deal for Lee. I'm not saying sign Lee, but I disagree with the notion that it can't be done, which is why most people are not willing to go with a trade for him.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:48 PM
Again I offer Homer and Yolander, both former first round picks. But I don't give away Wood who is young, a lefty and more likely to be a good 2 or 3 guy in your rotation for 5-7 years for a 3 month rental. Again we don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.


You're making the assumption that Wood is going to be good after one start in the big leagues. He may be and I hope he is.

Give away? For an established starter who could put you over the top this season? If I asking for Ted Lilly in return that would be giving him away - not for Cliff Lee.

Let's not talk like the Cards are way out of this thing, they have had some injuries (their four and five right now in the rotation are very bad) and their bullpen is not as good as the Reds IMO, but they are still right on our heels - I want to bury them and that's why I would like to see a move like this and I think a move like this would certainly help accomplish that.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 12:49 PM
Your kidding right? how is Bruce hitting at high end? How is Votto hitting at high end? The only player who is outpeforming expectations is Rolen.


The Reds starting lineup (except Stubbs and Cabrera) are all hitting at the high end of expectations. You can't look so hard to the future, that you miss the opportunity you have now.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 01:06 PM
Stubbs and Leake I agree, but if you don't lock up Bruce adn Votto now it's only going to cost you more later. Plus, there is no way in heck Lee is going to sign a 3 year deal. He is going to want a minimum 5 year deal, but more like 6 or 7 and at anywhere between 18-22 million per season. Again WE CAN"T afford him long term.

You don't sign pitchers for more than three years. If he would choose to go elsewhere because of that, so be it - it still wouldn't tarnish whatever he could accomplish with the Reds.

Look, we could go on and on and on about this and neither of us will change our position. I'm looking at the here and now, the playoffs are there for the taking this year.

As far as the future, I don't know and neither do you, but in 2010 the Reds have a legit shot. If I were to ask 10 people who were not Reds fans "if the playoffs are on the line and you could give the ball to Cliff Lee or Travis Wood, who would you pick?" No brainer - Lee. "If you could trade one (Lee) for the other (Wood) to accomplish that would you do it?" Again, most would say no brainer - yes.

If Lee would re-sign or if he wouldn't - losing Travis Wood isn't going to be all that detrimental to this organization and if it is - we aren't as in good a shape in the minor leagues as we think we are.

The Playoffs are possible this year - that's what we all want - maybe we can do it without Lee, but with him our chances increase greatly without that big of an impact on the future whether he is a part of it or not, IMO.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 01:12 PM
I can only hope Walt sees the big picture and doesn't trade away good young talent for a 3 month rental.


You don't sign pitchers for more than three years. If he would choose to go elsewhere because of that, so be it - it still wouldn't tarnish whatever he could accomplish with the Reds.

Look, we could go on and on and on about this and neither of us will change our position. I'm looking at the here and now, the playoffs are there for the taking this year.

As far as the future, I don't know and neither do you, but in 2010 the Reds have a legit shot. If I were to ask 10 people who were not Reds fans "if the playoffs are on the line and you could give the ball to Cliff Lee or Travis Wood, who would you pick?" No brainer - Lee. "If you could trade one (Lee) for the other (Wood) to accomplish that would you do it?" Again, most would say no brainer - yes.

If Lee would re-sign or if he wouldn't - losing Travis Wood isn't going to be all that detrimental to this organization and if it is - we aren't as in good a shape in the minor leagues as we think we are.

The Playoffs are possible this year - that's what we all want - maybe we can do it without Lee, but with him our chances increase greatly without that big of an impact on the future whether he is a part of it or not, IMO.

bounty37h
07-02-2010, 01:18 PM
This is potentially a good rotation. Chapman is out there somewhere as well. I think everyone has to realize that this organization has a lot of potential without giving away the minor league guys.

:beerme: Thats one heck of a rotation. Not neccesarily a true ace yet, but a few that could be/should be....

defender
07-02-2010, 01:26 PM
Your kidding right? how is Bruce hitting at high end? How is Votto hitting at high end? The only player who is outpeforming expectations is Rolen.

I am not saying Bruce does not have the potential to have a better year in his career, I am talking about expectations for this year. Of course I hope Votto will be the best hitter in baseball, but I doubt any preseaon projections had him doing any better than this. It has only been half a season, but at this point all signs indicate that is a year that you go for it.

swaisuc
07-02-2010, 01:26 PM
Again I offer Homer and Yolander, both former first round picks. But I don't give away Wood who is young, a lefty and more likely to be a good 2 or 3 guy in your rotation for 5-7 years for a 3 month rental. Again we don't have to win the division to make the playoffs.

So you think trading Wood is throwing away the future, but trading Alonso and Bailey is not? Interesting.

It seems Wood has tripled his value or more with that 1 start.

Also, Wood and Bailey are separated by about 9 months in age.

1990REDS
07-02-2010, 01:27 PM
Great thread!! how exciting is it that were even in a position to have this conversation!! With that said my heart says trade for lee but my head says keep the young talent. At the end of the day i trust whatever walt decides to do, hes proven he knows what hes doing. But it is awfully tempting to have a stud like lee at the top of your rotation for the playoofs to face other aces. Lee, volquez, cueto would be a very strong 3 man playoff rotation.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 01:29 PM
Alonso has no where to play on this team. They tried him in the OF and that was a bust. He is a first basemen and the Reds already have their first basemen for the next 10 years in the majors. As for Homer he is a hard throwing right hander who has not learned how to pitch, so I have no issue dealing him. Bailey is a hard throwing righty, Wood is a left handed pitcher, HUGE difference.


So you think trading Wood is throwing away the future, but trading Alonso and Bailey is not? Interesting.

It seems Wood has tripled his value or more with that 1 start.

Also, Wood and Bailey are separated by about 9 months in age.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 02:17 PM
Alonso has no where to play on this team. They tried him in the OF and that was a bust. He is a first basemen and the Reds already have their first basemen for the next 10 years in the majors. As for Homer he is a hard throwing right hander who has not learned how to pitch, so I have no issue dealing him. Bailey is a hard throwing righty, Wood is a left handed pitcher, HUGE difference.

Not to be smart here, but I don't get your point with this. Wood is not the only lefty that we have in the system. There's Maloney, Chapman and Jukich at AAA that start or have started. Add Matt Fairel, Travis Webb, Alexander Smit and Tom Cochran at AA. I realize all those guys won't make it, but as I have stated before I think we could recover and replace Wood without a lot of difficulty.

Just because he's young, cheap and left-handed are not reasons to keep him. I don't want to sound like I don't like Travis Wood, but I would hate to think that we would not make a trade for a legit No. 1 guy - which you need in the post-season - simply because Travis Wood is young, cheap and left-handed, especially when we have other options in the minors who are not too far away themselves from pitching in the big leagues.

If Wood was can't miss and the only thing we had (like in years past) I would say no, but he isn't and who knows when we'll be this close again.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 02:53 PM
We have seen Maloney and while he is okay he is not on the level of Wood. Chapman is a project who is still a year at least away from being a quality SP in the majors. Lets offer a Webb or Smit or Cochran and keep Wood. And yes being young, lefty and cheap is a reason to keep them or only to deal them in deals that will help your team long term, not just 3 months. Good young lefty pitchers are like GOLD, you just don't give them away for rentals.


Not to be smart here, but I don't get your point with this. Wood is not the only lefty that we have in the system. There's Maloney, Chapman and Jukich at AAA that start or have started. Add Matt Fairel, Travis Webb, Alexander Smit and Tom Cochran at AA. I realize all those guys won't make it, but as I have stated before I think we could recover and replace Wood without a lot of difficulty.

Just because he's young, cheap and left-handed are not reasons to keep him. I don't want to sound like I don't like Travis Wood, but I would hate to think that we would not make a trade for a legit No. 1 guy - which you need in the post-season - simply because Travis Wood is young, cheap and left-handed, especially when we have other options in the minors who are not too far away themselves from pitching in the big leagues.

If Wood was can't miss and the only thing we had (like in years past) I would say no, but he isn't and who knows when we'll be this close again.

webbbj
07-02-2010, 03:18 PM
i dont think trading for lee is a move to just get to the playoffs b/c i think the way the team is constructed right now with volquez coming back can do that with no extra help. the move to get Lee is to go from just a playoff team to a WS team. look at the NL its so weak. sure there is some parity in the west and east but none of those teams are great. we get Lee i firmly believe that makes the reds the clear cut favorite in the NL. I wouldnt trade for Lee just to get to the playoffs and exit the 1st rd.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 03:39 PM
Okay we want Lee, why not offer the M's the following:

Brandon Phillips/Stubbs and Yonder

we get

Lee and Ichiro

markymark69
07-02-2010, 04:10 PM
We have seen Maloney and while he is okay he is not on the level of Wood. Chapman is a project who is still a year at least away from being a quality SP in the majors. Lets offer a Webb or Smit or Cochran and keep Wood. And yes being young, lefty and cheap is a reason to keep them or only to deal them in deals that will help your team long term, not just 3 months. Good young lefty pitchers are like GOLD, you just don't give them away for rentals.

"He's not to the level of Wood"- Wood's made one start. If I recall, Maloney had a very similar debut versus the Cubs last season.

Wood has made one more start in the majors than Chapman and does not have near the upside, IMO.

Let's hold off just yet on anything definitive about Wood. One thing we do know. He will be asked in trade talks - we know that.

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Why not let the franchise save some money the next three years while players like Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Bruce, Hanigan, Cueto, Volquez, Wood, Chapman, Alonso, Mesoraco, Valaika, Frazier, Bray, and others are still cheap. A lot of these guys' contracts are going to come up at the same time, and with the money saved over the next couple of years, that money can then be used to pay for one or two or even three of these players larger contracts that we wouldn't otherwise be able to keep if we try to hold onto a player like Lee or whoever it's being suggested that we keep. We already have to consider paying $12M for Phillips next year or letting him go. I'd rather it be an easy decision and choose to keep him rather than going with Valaika next season because we have to pay for Lee.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 04:15 PM
And yes being young, lefty and cheap is a reason to keep them or only to deal them in deals that will help your team long term, not just 3 months. Good young lefty pitchers are like GOLD, you just don't give them away for rentals.

It's a reason, but it shouldn't the only reason and so far that's really all you have been able to provide. Again, you are making the assumption that he is going to be good. One start does not make him good or bad.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 04:27 PM
i dont think trading for lee is a move to just get to the playoffs b/c i think the way the team is constructed right now with volquez coming back can do that with no extra help. the move to get Lee is to go from just a playoff team to a WS team. look at the NL its so weak. sure there is some parity in the west and east but none of those teams are great. we get Lee i firmly believe that makes the reds the clear cut favorite in the NL. I wouldnt trade for Lee just to get to the playoffs and exit the 1st rd.

If it is as you say and Lee makes us the clear cut favorite - you have to roll the dice don't you. Nothing is a guarantee, but you are proving my point why the Reds should make this deal if they are so inclined. They have a good chance to go the playoffs with what they've got, no question. I don't know if they can get to the World Series with what they've got. You need a legit No. 1 in the playoffs, Lee gives you the best chance to go to the World Series. And it's not like that chance comes along very often for the Reds- or am I mistaken?

How many times in the past have we as Reds fans wanted them to go for it and they played it safe. And now, when we have the capitol to do so, most are getting cold feet.

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 04:36 PM
Volquez and Cueto are legit #1's.

#1's don't have to do it every start. They just have to be able to be dominant for 3 or 4 games. Cueto and Volquez have that capability.

markymark69
07-02-2010, 04:49 PM
Volquez and Cueto are legit #1's.

#1's don't have to do it every start. They just have to be able to be dominant for 3 or 4 games. Cueto and Volquez have that capability.

Volquez, yes. But there still has to be some uncertainty about him coming off the injury. Cueto is getting there, but I'm not sure I classify him as a one.

As we saw last year, Lee won both games in the WS, but that wasn't enough for the Philles. In a short series put Lee with Volquez and Cueto. That would be very tough to beat. I'm not sure you beat that. Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto, good, but not as dominant.

Caveman Techie
07-02-2010, 07:24 PM
Volquez has the "potential" to be a legit #1

Cueto has the "potential to be a legit #1

Lee IS a dominant #1 right now.

I don't want the Reds to just make the playoffs and exit in the first round. I want them to advance and I think Lee would give them the better chance of that.

Vottomatic
07-03-2010, 03:23 AM
Volquez has the "potential" to be a legit #1

Cueto has the "potential to be a legit #1

Lee IS a dominant #1 right now.

I don't want the Reds to just make the playoffs and exit in the first round. I want them to advance and I think Lee would give them the better chance of that.

If I remember correctly, Volquez had a tendency to nip around the plate and throw alot of pitches. Same problem Cueto used to have but has overcome lately. A true #1 to me can shut people down AND go 7 to 9 innings in a game most of the time. Volquez isn't a true #1 to me yet.

Cueto isn't either but continues to head in that direction.

1990REDS
07-03-2010, 09:33 AM
you also gotta think of the butts in seats factor with Lee. The buzz he would generate for the casual fan would be huge and might lead to full stadiums. more ticket sales might mean more payroll for the future. The die hards like me and most on this board are always gonna be thier, its about getting the casual or "pink hat" fans to the ball park. Thier money spends just the same as ours.

Kingspoint
07-03-2010, 10:45 PM
Today was only the 2nd time in the last 12+ starts that Cueto has walked more than 2 batters in a game. He's really improved his efficiency this season.

OldRed1966
07-10-2010, 10:32 PM
I know it's too late for Lee now, but I sure am glad that Wood is still a Red. He has a very bright future. Nice 1st outing for Lee tonight in his new ballpark.

BRM13
07-10-2010, 10:41 PM
I know it's too late for Lee now, but I sure am glad that Wood is still a Red. He has a very bright future. Nice 1st outing for Lee tonight in his new ballpark.

I wouldn't put much stock in his first outing. Granted that is a tougher place to pitch than Seattle, but he's got an excellent track record and the Rangers will be very happy with him this year.

BRM13
07-10-2010, 10:44 PM
you also gotta think of the butts in seats factor with Lee. The buzz he would generate for the casual fan would be huge and might lead to full stadiums. more ticket sales might mean more payroll for the future. The die hards like me and most on this board are always gonna be thier, its about getting the casual or "pink hat" fans to the ball park. Thier money spends just the same as ours.

I think this matters alot to the Reds at this point in their history. Lee is obviously gone, but the Reds need to stay in the race and make the playoffs. There is a carryover in attendance from one year to the next when teams do well the year before. The Reds need that carryover to generate the bigger revenues they will need to capitalize on the good young core that they have developed.

OldRed1966
07-10-2010, 10:48 PM
I wouldn't put much stock in his first outing. Granted that is a tougher place to pitch than Seattle, but he's got an excellent track record and the Rangers will be very happy with him this year.


I agree he gets a mulligan for his 1st outing since he was on an airplane all day, and only got there 2 hours before the game, but his career numbers at The Ballpark at Arlington aren't very good.

sabometrics
07-10-2010, 11:14 PM
I've been saving my vote until he got a few more starts under his belt. Picked "No."

I don't know what Wood is going to be, but I think he'll be good enough to warrant not trading him for a rental/1.5 years of Haren/Oswalt.

Mr Larkin
07-10-2010, 11:26 PM
I think he is worth more at this point in his career than he ever will be, so if you get the right trade I would part with him in a heartbeat.

OldRed1966
07-10-2010, 11:28 PM
I think he is worth more at this point in his career than he ever will be, so if you get the right trade I would part with him in a heartbeat.


So you think this young 23 year old lefty isn't going to get any better?

Mr Larkin
07-10-2010, 11:37 PM
So you think this young 23 year old lefty isn't going to get any better?

Don't know, but he is worth a ton right now. If he goes out and throws three subpar games and is back in Louisville by August, he is worth nothing then.

Currently he has great value and a team drooling for a young lefty may be willing to put too much worth on an unproven young player.

You see many splash in the pan players and I would take a sure thing over the possibility of a young, still developing player in order to make a playoff run this season. I don't want a rental, but someone who may have some staying power. I think he is worth more than a rental at this point.

Vottomatic
07-11-2010, 01:15 PM
Travis Wood is a lefthanded version of Mike Leake.

Both guys know how to pitch and have been underhyped. All the hyped guys are the ones this board are afraid to trade, i.e. Homer Bailey for years.

Cueto came out of nowhere too.

The hard throwers get all the publicity and hype. The technicians get no love.

markymark69
07-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Honestly, outside of your core guys. You have to be open to trading anybody if it helps your team. How many untouchables do the Reds have at this point? Wood perhaps is one - but he does only three starts in the big leagues. If he is an untouchable then you don't trade him.

I suspect that he is not an untouchable. He is probably not at the top of list of those players/prospects that Walt wants to get rid of, but I think you have to have an open mind also.

Was Wood a dealbreaker for Lee? Who knows? The only other guy I would consider trading Wood for at this point would be Oswalt, although I don't think Houston will trade within the division.

When a guy is 20-something and 1 or 2 against you in his career and is not a rental - I would do that, but he would be the only other player I would consider for Wood, otherwise we keep him and see what we have.

Girevik
07-12-2010, 02:01 PM
We need a "sort of" option. I'd have included him for Lee in a heartbeat. Haren I'm not so sure about. They're hardly the same guy.

1990REDS
07-13-2010, 09:04 AM
R
Honestly, outside of your core guys. You have to be open to trading anybody if it helps your team. How many untouchables do the Reds have at this point? Wood perhaps is one - but he does only three starts in the big leagues. If he is an untouchable then you don't trade him.

I suspect that he is not an untouchable. He is probably not at the top of list of those players/prospects that Walt wants to get rid of, but I think you have to have an open mind also.

Was Wood a dealbreaker for Lee? Who knows? The only other guy I would consider trading Wood for at this point would be Oswalt, although I don't think Houston will trade within the division.

When a guy is 20-something and 1 or 2 against you in his career and is not a rental - I would do that, but he would be the only other player I would consider for Wood, otherwise we keep him and see what we have.
I'm not so sure that if I let go of wood I do it in my own division. If he does pan out and become a good MLB pitcher it would be awfully frustrating to watch him pitch against us in the division.

bgwilly31
07-13-2010, 12:30 PM
For Lee in return yes.

But now that option is out the window.

Ride is hot streak to the playoffs. !

markymark69
07-13-2010, 01:53 PM
R
I'm not so sure that if I let go of wood I do it in my own division. If he does pan out and become a good MLB pitcher it would be awfully frustrating to watch him pitch against us in the division.

For a proven commodity like Oswalt and what he has done pitching against you in his career. I would have to consider it. We still do not know exactly what we have with Wood.

The small sample size is very good. But, remember after the first two weeks of Jay Bruce's career, he looked like he was destined for the Hall of Fame and now he looks like he may more fit for a platoon situation. He's doing okay, but certainly not All-World.

vottofan4life
07-13-2010, 02:22 PM
its weird Travis Wood hasnt even pitched a home game yet