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brm7675
07-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Brandon is having a great season with the Reds, but given the budget the Reds have, should the Reds look into trading Brandon in the offseason while he trade value will probably be at it's peak and look to add some depth and look to T. Frazier as our future 2nd basemen?

davereds24
07-02-2010, 04:13 PM
Why trade your best all around player over the last few seasons?

brm7675
07-02-2010, 04:37 PM
Simple, we always have to look at this team budget wise. You have to consider that BP is not going to continue to get better, and yet his pay is going to increase. Would it not be wise of the Reds to deal him when he has the biggest potential at bringing a good return? The Reds have X dollars to work with, and we know players like Votto and Bruce are going to require big money to get them locked in. We have 30 million sitting in AAA right now. You have to think the Reds will probably add a few years to Bronson to keep him around. If T. Frazier is ready to make the jump, why not look at the possibilities this offseason at what BP might bring.


Why trade your best all around player over the last few seasons?

NeilHamburger
07-02-2010, 05:17 PM
The Reds have Arroyo, Harang and Cordero all coming off the budget in the next 2 years. Plus, Cueto, Bruce and Votto won't get really expensive for at least 2 years. I really don't understand people wanting to move phillips. It's like we have a good team, and people want to do everything to change it.

Phillips should be a red for at least 3 more years.

Maker_84
07-02-2010, 05:30 PM
it would be terrible for the Reds to get rid of him, he may be our overall best player and has a swagger to him

Vottomatic
07-02-2010, 05:58 PM
Brandon just turned 29 on June 28th. He is only signed through next season ('11) at $11.1M. He'll turn 30 during that season.

I'd offer him a 2-year $20M extension and see if he goes for it. Remind him that he's got a good team around him and see if he has any interest in a hometown discount. I'm sure he'll gripe about only 2 years though.

The Voice of IH
07-02-2010, 06:01 PM
Phillips has a big future with the Reds, maybe 1 or 2 rings in the next 3 years :cool:

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 06:02 PM
Phillips has a big future with the Reds, maybe 1 or 2 rings in the next 3 years :cool:

He's been the most consistent player every year for the last 5 years.

They need him here next year for the stability. I'd let Valaika take his place after that, though.

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 06:03 PM
Brandon just turned 29 on June 28th. He is only signed through next season ('11) at $11.1M. He'll turn 30 during that season.

I'd offer him a 2-year $20M extension and see if he goes for it. Remind him that he's got a good team around him and see if he has any interest in a hometown discount. I'm sure he'll gripe about only 2 years though.

I'd be willing to wait on Valaika if Phillips was willing to take that. But, beyond that, it just doesn't make sense.

NeilHamburger
07-02-2010, 06:07 PM
Why? I offer him a three year deal. I try and sign both Bruce and Votto to backloaded deals, offering them security while also buying out 1-2 years of free agency. To me the finances would work out fine, and give the Reds about a 4 year window after this year.

The Voice of IH
07-02-2010, 06:10 PM
I agree with Neil, Phillips deserves to stay with this team well into the future, why throw him away, he has been a great player for us. :confused:

Vottomatic
07-02-2010, 06:13 PM
I'd be willing to wait on Valaika if Phillips was willing to take that. But, beyond that, it just doesn't make sense.

No offense but I have no hope for Valaika. He is a singles hitter and average defensive second baseman.

Valaika <<<<<<<<<< Phillips

Phillips has speed and power, and is proven. Gold Glove 2Baseman.

Phillips may have found his niche this year as a leadoff hitter.

NeilHamburger
07-02-2010, 06:30 PM
The Reds have roughly 37 million coming off the books in Harang, Arroyo and Cordero

Rolen will make roughly the same for the next 2 years
If they sign Bruce to about a 5-6 year deal for around 35-40 million, and backload the last 2 years to be around 8-9 million
If they sign Votto for around 5 years for about 60 million
They can probably re-up Cueto for about 4 years at about 25 million, backloaded

In this scenerio by the time in 3 years when Bruce and Votto become more expensive, that's when Phillips is gone, as he hits 32 in his final season.

Plus, I absolutly believe if the Reds continue to contend attendance will shoot up, especially next year. I could see an extra 10 or so million for players.

I absolutly believe that is a fairly realistic scenerio.

brm7675
07-02-2010, 06:48 PM
I agree Harang is coming off the books and at the end of his deal so will Co-Co, but I believe and hope the Reds ink Bronson to say another 2-3 years at somewhere between 7-9 million per year. We MUST have some veteran leadership in a staff of very young pitchers. Bronson is a innings eater and more times then not keeps your team in the game.


The Reds have roughly 37 million coming off the books in Harang, Arroyo and Cordero

Rolen will make roughly the same for the next 2 years
If they sign Bruce to about a 5-6 year deal for around 35-40 million, and backload the last 2 years to be around 8-9 million
If they sign Votto for around 5 years for about 60 million
They can probably re-up Cueto for about 4 years at about 25 million, backloaded

In this scenerio by the time in 3 years when Bruce and Votto become more expensive, that's when Phillips is gone, as he hits 32 in his final season.

Plus, I absolutly believe if the Reds continue to contend attendance will shoot up, especially next year. I could see an extra 10 or so million for players.

I absolutly believe that is a fairly realistic scenerio.

NeilHamburger
07-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Fair enough, I suppose an interesting question is who would you rather have around another 3 years after this one: Arroyo or Phillips?

That will be one reds management will need to answer, unless payroll is raised to the mid-80s

RiverRat13
07-02-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm going to go ahead and guess that Walt isn't going to trade an .800 OPS gold glove second baseman to make room for a guy who can't OPS .700 in AAA.

Vottomatic
07-02-2010, 07:17 PM
Alot depends on the success of this year.

If they do well and go far, season ticket sales and sales in general for next season, with the core of the team returning should go through the roof.

And if they're doing well next season, and BP is a huge part of the reason why, it will be hard to deal him.

But they aren't going to be able to pay him $12-$15M per season or anything like that.

To keept his team intact, they're going to have to have some hometown discounts to get it done. Once a guy shoots for the moon in terms of a paycheck, might as well write him off.

RiverRat13
07-02-2010, 07:22 PM
The Reds have less than $43 million in obligated salaries for '11, which includes BP's $11 million. The Reds could easily give Votto and Bruce long term deals, keep BP, and add another decent sized contract and be at the same payroll in '11 as '10.

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 08:31 PM
No offense but I have no hope for Valaika. He is a singles hitter and average defensive second baseman.

Valaika <<<<<<<<<< Phillips

Phillips has speed and power, and is proven. Gold Glove 2Baseman.

Phillips may have found his niche this year as a leadoff hitter.

He is a very, very good singles and doubles hitter and he is a good defensive 2nd baseman.

You underestimate him.

We aren't going to get as good a player as Phillips to replace Phillips. It will be at least 20 years before we are lucky enough to have that. But, Phillips won't be worth $50M for the next 5 seasons, which is an amount he should command.

Valaika will be a .290 hitter in the Majors with good defense. That's ALWAYS acceptable for a 2nd Baseman, when the team's big money is going to be tied up at 1st Base, RF (Bruce), CF (Heisey/Stubbs), LF (Heisey/Stubbs), C (Mesoraco and this year's 1st Round pick) SP1, SP2, SP3, and SP4 (Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman) 2012 through 2015. There's no money left for 2nd Base after 2011.

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 08:38 PM
Fair enough, I suppose an interesting question is who would you rather have around another 3 years after this one: Arroyo or Phillips?

That will be one reds management will need to answer, unless payroll is raised to the mid-80s

I don't want either one after 2011.

NeilHamburger
07-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Who are you paying what will probably be worth 80 million worth of payroll to?

It won't just be Votto, Bruce and Cueto. As both Bruce and Cueto won't be making that much by then. I can't imagine the Reds going out and spending big on another reliever. And by that time one of Mes. or Grandal will probably get a shot to start at catcher. Plus Rolen will still be around making about what he makes now.

The reds potential 2012 rotation:
Cueto
Volquez
Wood
Leake
Chapman/Bailey (one may be in the pen, one may be traded)

I don't see any of those guys making over 9 million by then. The only one who really has a chance is Volquez, and the injury will really hurt his arbitration leverage. And Leak, Wood, Chapman, Bailey would all be pretty cheap.

Are you planning on the Reds dropping 17 million or so on some stud free agent or something?

Kingspoint
07-02-2010, 09:29 PM
Who are you paying what will probably be worth 80 million worth of payroll to?



Brandon Phillips isn't signing a 1-year contract with anybody for 2012.

BLEEDS
07-02-2010, 10:00 PM
Why trade your best all around player over the last few seasons?

Nobody said anything about trading Votto, we're talking about Phillips.

There will never be a time to trade higher on Phillips IMO.
Look at his career stats - especially against RHP, and you tell me what looks like the anomaly?!?

EVEN IF he put up these stats next year, he wouldn't be worth his price tag, not on the Reds. MAYBE if he played SS, but he's too proud to make that move at this point

And all you armchair GM's have NO CLUE how much $$ we have next year. A lot of guys up for arbitration - including Votto, who needs a long-term deal if we want to have any chance at keeping him here at any discount rates. Cueto, Bailey/Bruce maybe, Volquez maybe, among others. We're going to have to pay to keep these young guys around, and a $12M 2B-man isn't in the plans. Rolen is having a way better season overall, and he's only making $6M. No way, No how is that going to fly.

Trade him for a SS or pitching, whatever, we can't pay him that type of money.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-02-2010, 10:02 PM
The Reds have less than $43 million in obligated salaries for '11, which includes BP's $11 million. The Reds could easily give Votto and Bruce long term deals, keep BP, and add another decent sized contract and be at the same payroll in '11 as '10.

Impossible.


PEACE

-BLEEDS

RiverRat13
07-03-2010, 12:28 AM
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tj1FG9GPVGFzrJykhM94ogw&output=html

The only inaccuracy is that Jay Bruce will now be Arbitration 1 in '11, a year earlier than previously thought.

gedred69
07-03-2010, 02:02 AM
If this team goes deep into the playoffs, you can bet the payroll will increase significantly. I'm not necessarily a Castellini fan, but he was part of the successful StL franchise that realized how much they helped the team's revenue by drastically increasing payroll by signing steroid boy at the time. It paid off at the gate. Winning, (or at least acting like mgmt. wants to), brings the fans. This team turned really good when the line-up featured Phillips-Votto-Rolen at 2,3,4. Can't get past all three. And that stack makes Gomes and Bruce much better. All this team needs right now is a lead-off. ----And Phillips for a couple more years. (I wish Valaika could really play SS, and lead off)!

Vottomatic
07-03-2010, 03:58 AM
If this team goes deep into the playoffs, you can bet the payroll will increase significantly. I'm not necessarily a Castellini fan, but he was part of the successful StL franchise that realized how much they helped the team's revenue by drastically increasing payroll by signing steroid boy at the time. It paid off at the gate. Winning, (or at least acting like mgmt. wants to), brings the fans. This team turned really good when the line-up featured Phillips-Votto-Rolen at 2,3,4. Can't get past all three. And that stack makes Gomes and Bruce much better. All this team needs right now is a lead-off. ----And Phillips for a couple more years. (I wish Valaika could really play SS, and lead off)!

I could handle Valaika at SS, if his defense was quality.

I've just come to expect what Phillips brings to the lineup and anything less would be a letdown.