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View Full Version : Redszone is the smartest place on the web-lets help Walt get a stud pitcher....



jojo
07-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Alright, I'm already sick of hearing about Lee rumors so in an effort to "make it stop", lets help Walt land the stud starter that will all but surely get you divorced for maxing out the gold card on World Series tickets.

The premises are: 1) the Reds have a better chance of improving themselves by involving multiple teams than if they are the highest bidder on ebay for Lee and 2) Jocketty is a talented GM that can work deals that make sense by matching realistic components that can easily be rationalized based upon what fits each participant's best interests (i.e. Walt is smart, other GMs are too but Walt is smarter because he knows how to connect the dots).

As a idea starter, this was posted in another thread:


The Reds need to hopelessly complicate things by involving at least four teams...

Uggla to the Rockies, Johnson and Snyder to the Reds, a badaggle of near ready prospects to Florida and something to the Dbacks so that they can say they didn't sell Snyder for greed...maybe the Reds can use Alonso to the Ms and Lee to somebody and somebody's stuff to Florida to help too...

Clearly that's throwing a wild idea into a noisy room... But what can the Redszone braintrust come up with? Lets hammer out a deal that Walt and the other participants simply can't walk away from....

What dots can be connected?

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 01:38 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

jojo
07-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

I only used starter as an example because of the recent fixation on Lee but really any area of weakness is fair game be it pen, ss, catcher, LF etc...

I threw out an idea that improved the Reds' chances this year and made their 25 man roster better the next several too...

_Sir_Charles_
07-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner.

This is my point all along. When did our starting rotation become the concern?

GAC
07-03-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm still trying to get past the aprt where RZ is the smartest place. :D

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm still trying to get past the aprt where RZ is the smartest place. :D

With spelling like that, I am wondering too! :p:

nate
07-03-2010, 02:03 PM
DING DING DING DING! We have a winner.

This is my point all along. When did our starting rotation become the concern?

Opening day?

It's in the lower third by nearly every measure. There aren't any pitching categories where it's above average.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Opening day?

It's in the lower third by nearly every measure. There aren't any pitching categories where it's above average.

Sure Nate, but go 1-2-3 with Volquez, Cueto and Arroyo. What teams other than the two I mentioned where you would be concerned the Reds aren't at least even with the team on the other side in the NL.

jojo
07-03-2010, 02:11 PM
Sure Nate, but go 1-2-3 with Volquez, Cueto and Arroyo. What teams other than the two I mentioned where you would be concerned the Reds aren't at least even with the team on the other side in the NL.

For the purposes of a pennant run, it's tough to pencil in Volquez as your #1 starter this season isn't it? Truthfully, he's got a lot to prove ignoring the injury.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 02:12 PM
For the purposes of a pennant run, it's tough to pencil in Volquez as your #1 starter this season isn't it? Truthfully, he's got a lot to prove ignoring the injury.

I was just naming our 3. Go Arroyo-Cueto-Volquez. Is there a three man rotation that worries you that is clearly outclassing those guys that aren't the Phillies/Cardinals?

Eric_the_Red
07-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Sure Nate, but go 1-2-3 with Volquez, Cueto and Arroyo. What teams other than the two I mentioned where you would be concerned the Reds aren't at least even with the team on the other side in the NL.

Just about the entire NL West.

nate
07-03-2010, 02:15 PM
Sure Nate, but go 1-2-3 with Volquez, Cueto and Arroyo. What teams other than the two I mentioned where you would be concerned the Reds aren't at least even with the team on the other side in the NL.

Well, to me, the Padres, Marlins, Rockies, Giants.

And I like the guy but which Volquez am I getting? When? For how long?

Wouldn't you like to go into the playoffs with Lee substituted for one of those names?

jojo
07-03-2010, 02:16 PM
I was just naming our 3. Go Arroyo-Cueto-Volquez. Is there a three man rotation that worries you that is clearly outclassing those guys that aren't the Phillies/Cardinals?

Arroyo doesn't miss bats. That scares me. Volquez again is a big question mark. He had a break through season before the injury and looked to be a FIP=4ish arm and who knows if he'll be friends with the strikezone this season.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Just about the entire NL West.

The Rockies have Ubaldo and a rookie in Chacin who has never thrown 180 innings in a season. In the playoffs, Chacin isn't likely a factor. After Ubaldo then, who do they have?

The Dodgers have who? Kershaw is their ace and he walks nearly 5 guys per 9 innings. In the playoffs, that doesn't worry me one bit. Kuroda and Billingsley are good, but not exactly guys I would be bothered by matching up with any of our top 3 guys.

The Padres best starter is Mat Latos. His career high IP is 122. He is also 22 years old. He won't be starting in the playoffs. Then they have a bunch of guys who don't miss bats in their rotation who are likely posting good ERA's because of the park they play in. Only Richard outside of Latos even has a 2.00 or better K/BB rate in the rotation and he is at 2.13. Why are you worried about that rotation?

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Well, to me, the Padres, Marlins, Rockies, Giants.

And I like the guy but which Volquez am I getting? When? For how long?

Wouldn't you like to go into the playoffs with Lee substituted for one of those names?

I would like Lee, but I am not handing them Mesoraco and Wood to get it done either.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Arroyo doesn't miss bats. That scares me. Volquez again is a big question mark. He had a break through season before the injury and looked to be a FIP=4ish arm and who knows if he'll be friends with the strikezone this season.

I will give you Arroyo, but what makes him different from most of the Padres rotation or Tim Hudson in Atlanta? Not much. Most playoff conendending teams have a guy like him right now.

Falls City Beer
07-03-2010, 02:24 PM
The Rockies have Ubaldo and a rookie in Chacin who has never thrown 180 innings in a season. In the playoffs, Chacin isn't likely a factor. After Ubaldo then, who do they have?

The Dodgers have who? Kershaw is their ace and he walks nearly 5 guys per 9 innings. In the playoffs, that doesn't worry me one bit. Kuroda and Billingsley are good, but not exactly guys I would be bothered by matching up with any of our top 3 guys.

The Padres best starter is Mat Latos. His career high IP is 122. He is also 22 years old. He won't be starting in the playoffs. Then they have a bunch of guys who don't miss bats in their rotation who are likely posting good ERA's because of the park they play in. Only Richard outside of Latos even has a 2.00 or better K/BB rate in the rotation and he is at 2.13. Why are you worried about that rotation?

Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

Falls City Beer
07-03-2010, 02:28 PM
I still think Lee is the most likely option for the Reds. While the Marlins have been willing to trade guys like Johnson, I think there's a decent chance that Florida will be in the race.

nate
07-03-2010, 02:29 PM
I will give you Arroyo, but what makes him different from most of the Padres rotation or Tim Hudson in Atlanta? Not much. Most playoff conendending teams have a guy like him right now.

If Arroyo actually struck out batters, he'd comp similarly to Kevin Correia who's probably the worst starter on the Padres. Most of the rest of those guys, at least the top three, strike out almost twice as many dudes/9. Arroyo has a 1.34 K/BB ratio. The worst guy on the Pads with significant innings has 1.61.

nate
07-03-2010, 02:30 PM
I would like Lee, but I am not handing them Mesoraco and Wood to get it done either.

But is that the only option? Stand pat or give up those two?

I think Walt can make a good deal without shooting all his bullets.

Falls City Beer
07-03-2010, 02:35 PM
But is that the only option? Stand pat or give up those two?

I think Walt can make a good deal without shooting all his bullets.

I think it can get done with Alonso/Mez and Wood. But I do think it's going to take players of that caliber to get it done. Lot of suitors for Lee.

jojo
07-03-2010, 02:40 PM
Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

I think it would take a miracle to get the Marlins to trade Johnson...that's why the example used a group approach.

RBA
07-03-2010, 02:43 PM
Alot of the NL West parks are pitchers parks, you can't say that about the NL Central; and Great American Ballpark being one of the worst for pitchers.

RED VAN HOT
07-03-2010, 03:08 PM
Walt has resisted the urge to trade top talent for short term gain. In order to get a 'stud' pitcher other teams will ask for top talent. They will not accept a basket of marginal prospects with ceilings of utility player or bull pen arm. I do not believe he would make such a trade unless, like the Rolen deal, WJ believed he had a good chance to retain the pitcher for multiple years. Personally, I believe that both the starters and bullpen are setting up nicely for the second half.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 03:22 PM
Why can't Latos pitch in the postseason if they keep his in-season innings down to about 170 innings? Latos, Leblanc, and Richard are a better trio than Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez.

So in the regular season they add 50 innings to his career high and then I am supposed to worry about him in the playoffs? Don't get me wrong, I really like Latos, I just don't worry about him as a starter in the playoffs this season.

And while Latos, Leblanc and Richard MAY be a better trio than our guys, it certainly isn't by much if at all (assuming Volquez to be healthy, which we have no reason not to believe given what we have seen him do so far on rehab).

Eric_the_Red
07-03-2010, 03:41 PM
The Rockies have Ubaldo and a rookie in Chacin who has never thrown 180 innings in a season. In the playoffs, Chacin isn't likely a factor. After Ubaldo then, who do they have?

The Dodgers have who? Kershaw is their ace and he walks nearly 5 guys per 9 innings. In the playoffs, that doesn't worry me one bit. Kuroda and Billingsley are good, but not exactly guys I would be bothered by matching up with any of our top 3 guys.

The Padres best starter is Mat Latos. His career high IP is 122. He is also 22 years old. He won't be starting in the playoffs. Then they have a bunch of guys who don't miss bats in their rotation who are likely posting good ERA's because of the park they play in. Only Richard outside of Latos even has a 2.00 or better K/BB rate in the rotation and he is at 2.13. Why are you worried about that rotation?

I'm sure fans of other teams can say similar things about the Reds. The Reds have no ace to match a Ubaldo or Halladay. At the moment I would guess the Reds game 1 starter in the post-season would be Arroyo. Good, but not exactly an ace. Cueto is much too inconsistent to say with any certainty how he would match up against any pitcher. Who know what Volquez will be like when he returns. Leake/Wood will most likely be shut down. Harang is lucky to give the team a quality start.

Acquiring Lee gives the Reds a legit #1 ace that could win against any other pitcher, and probably moves Arroyo to a game 2 start. I'd match Arroyo up with most #2 starters. And then Volquez/Cueto in games 3 & 4, and use Harang as an emergency starter or long relief (during the post-season).

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm sure fans of other teams can say similar things about the Reds. The Reds have no ace to match a Ubaldo or Halladay. At the moment I would guess the Reds game 1 starter in the post-season would be Arroyo. Good, but not exactly an ace. Cueto is much too inconsistent to say with any certainty how he would match up against any pitcher. Who know what Volquez will be like when he returns. Leake/Wood will most likely be shut down. Harang is lucky to give the team a quality start.

Acquiring Lee gives the Reds a legit #1 ace that could win against any other pitcher, and probably moves Arroyo to a game 2 start. I'd match Arroyo up with most #2 starters. And then Volquez/Cueto in games 3 & 4, and use Harang as an emergency starter or long relief (during the post-season).

Well my argument ignores the Phillies because I named them as being a team we can't match 1-2-3 because of Halladay and Hamels.

But you are right. The Reds and just about everyone else has questionables everywhere else, meaning we aren't really behind the 8 ball against anyone but the Phillies and Cardinals in terms of matching up a 1-2-3 rotation in the playoffs.

Eric_the_Red
07-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Well my argument ignores the Phillies because I named them as being a team we can't match 1-2-3 because of Halladay and Hamels.

But you are right. The Reds and just about everyone else has questionables everywhere else, meaning we aren't really behind the 8 ball against anyone but the Phillies and Cardinals in terms of matching up a 1-2-3 rotation in the playoffs.

Exactly. So make a deal for Lee that would match us with the best an put us ahead of most of the competition.

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

I'd probably take the Braves bullpen and 4-man rotation of Lowe, Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens over the Reds at this point...

The Padres rotation is iffy, but has a few decent arms with Garland and Latos... But their Pen is insane (Bell, Stauffer, Adams, Gregerson) ...

And if the Dodgers or Rockies catch fire down the stretch, give me Kershaw, Billingsley, Kuroda or Jimenez, Chacin, Cook/Francis plus pen over what we have too...

Definitely wouldn't be a bad idea to bolster our pitching, though I suspect some of those upgrades can be had from within...

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Another huge factor regarding Lee, is that any start he logs vs. the Cardinals is almost an auto +1 game in the division win... Cards struggle vs. the lefties... As a team this season the Cards are .247/.321/.396 vs Lefties and .264/.337/.415 vs Righties... Average Runs/PA vs lefties .105 vs lefties and .116 vs righties.

Consider that the league average on the season is 38.1 PA's/G and the Cards facing nothing but lefties would average 4 runs a game vs. lefties, and 4.42 runs a game vs righties... Over a 162 game schedule that equals an extra 68 runs when facing RHP vs LHP... 20 runs in a 5 game series vs. LHP and 22.1 runs in a 5 game vs. RHP... 28 runs in a 7 game series vs. lefties and 30.94 runs in a 7 game series vs. RHP...

fearofpopvol1
07-03-2010, 05:06 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

I would take the Giants rotation over the Reds. Not sure if they will stick around or not as they need some bats, but their 1-4 have been quite good. I'd take the Dodgers staff over the Reds too.

The problem with the Reds' staff is that you really just don't know what you're going to get. Which pitcher is going to show up on which day?

I think a starter is a must, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get Lee. I'd do Alonso and Wood...but I wouldn't go any more than that. I'd try to see if the M's would bite on Maloney instead of Wood, but I doubt it.

I would be targeting Haren, who is also relatively cheap and could probably be had for less or a similar trade and could anchor the rotation next year as well.

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 05:09 PM
I would take the Giants rotation over the Reds. Not sure if they will stick around or not as they need some bats, but their 1-4 have been quite good. I'd take the Dodgers staff over the Reds too.

The problem with the Reds' staff is that you really just don't know what you're going to get. Which pitcher is going to show up on which day?

I think a starter is a must, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get Lee. I'd do Alonso and Wood...but I wouldn't go any more than that. I'd try to see if the M's would bite on Maloney instead of Wood, but I doubt it.

I would be targeting Haren, who is also relatively cheap and could probably be had for less or a similar trade and could anchor the rotation next year as well.

Not a fan of targeting Haren myself... Notorious first-half pitcher, and has seen his HR/9 jump from a career 1.07/9 to 1.47/9 this season... Not sure that would translate fantastically to GABP, though it's worth noting that Chase Field isn't exactly friendly confines...

Mario-Rijo
07-03-2010, 06:17 PM
Looks like they may have found one potential stud (thanks to the guys in the sundeck for this nugget). Oh and hello Gary Matthews Jr! Probably explains why Heisey got the start today. They also want either Boxberger or Donnie Joseph, read the story.


MLB Trade Rumors: Carlos Marmol To Cincinnati Reds for Chris Heisey
by Illya Harrell
Written on July 03, 2010

By Sunday evening, the Chicago Cubs will have a new outfielder, Chris Heisey, and the Cincinnati Reds will have a new relief pitcher, Carlos Marmol.

You heard it here first.

Sources are saying that, "Walt Jocketty and Jim Hendry are in serious discussions over a trade involving Chris Heisey and Carlos Marmol."

MLB trade rumors (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415138-mlb-trade-rumors-carlos-marmol-to-cincinnati-reds-for-chris-heisey)

Ron Madden
07-03-2010, 06:22 PM
Looks like they may have found one potential stud (thanks to the guys in the sundeck for this nugget). Oh and hello Gary Matthews Jr! Probably explains why Heisey got the start today.



MLB trade rumors (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415138-mlb-trade-rumors-carlos-marmol-to-cincinnati-reds-for-chris-heisey)

I wouldn't trade Chris Heisey for Carlos Marmol.

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 06:24 PM
Looks like they may have found one potential stud (thanks to the guys in the sundeck for this nugget). Oh and hello Gary Matthews Jr! Probably explains why Heisey got the start today. They also want either Boxberger or Donnie Joseph, read the story.



MLB trade rumors (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415138-mlb-trade-rumors-carlos-marmol-to-cincinnati-reds-for-chris-heisey)

With all due respect to Illya at BR, I just can't figure that a guy who doesn't get paid gets the scoop on a deal like this, while none of the guys who do this for a living have.

Mario-Rijo
07-03-2010, 06:30 PM
With all due respect to Illya at BR, I just can't figure that a guy who doesn't get paid gets the scoop on a deal like this, while none of the guys who do this for a living have.

There is always the chance that a guy has that one connection for that one particular team/deal. I wouldn't write it off I think it has legs, passes the sniff test to me anyways. I don't think I like it but if Marmol doesn't get too walk happy I think I could learn to like it.

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 06:46 PM
Cardinals friend just pointed out that Jocketty and Hendry are friends... Really good friends... So this may have legs.

fearofpopvol1
07-03-2010, 06:47 PM
Heisey + Joseph/Boxberger for Marmol? No thanks. And I like Marmol a lot.

I'd do Heisey and Cordero for Marmol though.

Homer Bailey
07-03-2010, 06:49 PM
It is also expected that the Cubs will ask for an additional player, most likely a minor league pitcher, probably either Brad Boxberger or Donnie Joseph.

I sure hope not.

Mario-Rijo
07-03-2010, 06:52 PM
I sure hope not.

Walts forte right, Roenicke & Stewart for Rolen. I would rather part with a guy like Fisher or Ondrusek, something like that.

CTA513
07-03-2010, 06:53 PM
Marmol would be a good pickup to help the bullpen.
Proven major league arm that misses bats that could help in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning.
The only thing I worry about is how he gets himself in jams by walking batters.

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 07:18 PM
If it's Marmol for Heisey/Boxberger, I pull the trigger in an instant... If it's for Joseph, I'm a bit more hesitant...

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 07:30 PM
The only thing scary about Marmol, is his deal is up this season, and after a 2.5 million dollar season, he's eligible for arbitration in what would be his 4th season of service time...

bucksfan2
07-04-2010, 11:53 PM
Here is my question first.... which NL teams have a rotation that the Reds can't match up with? By my count its only the Phillies and the Cardinals. I am not against acquiring a starter, but it most certainly wouldn't be something I would worry about if we didn't have one by August 1st short of the Phillies or Cardinals acquiring another ACE.

Phillies, Cards, Giants, Padres, Marlins, and Braves.

The biggest issue I see with the Reds is they don't have an ace type pitcher. In a 7 game series the Phillies can start Holliday 2-3 times. The Cards can start Carpenter and Wainright atleast 4 games. The Giants are loaded 1-4. IMO the biggest issue with the Reds is they don't have a bonified big time starter. Arroyo is good but will throw up his fair share of stinkers. Cueto is as inconsistant as it gets and Volquez is a huge question mark as of right now.

For the Reds to become top notch contenders they need a big gun to complement the pitching staff they currently have.

mth123
07-05-2010, 12:09 AM
Phillies, Cards, Giants, Padres, Marlins, and Braves.

The biggest issue I see with the Reds is they don't have an ace type pitcher. In a 7 game series the Phillies can start Holliday 2-3 times. The Cards can start Carpenter and Wainright atleast 4 games. The Giants are loaded 1-4. IMO the biggest issue with the Reds is they don't have a bonified big time starter. Arroyo is good but will throw up his fair share of stinkers. Cueto is as inconsistant as it gets and Volquez is a huge question mark as of right now.

For the Reds to become top notch contenders they need a big gun to complement the pitching staff they currently have.

This is right. I'd add the Mets in a short series with Santana, Pelfrey and Niece. The Reds have 5 major league caliber guys (which hasn't happened around here much) but when you cut it down for a short series, they can't match-up. Add Lee or Oswalt and it would look a lot better.

REDblooded
07-05-2010, 12:20 AM
Although... If Carpenter is indeed struggling due to forearm tightness, with his track record, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to see him not finish the season, leaving the Cards with Wainwright and an overworked Garcia if it gets that far...

Will M
07-05-2010, 03:12 AM
This is right. I'd add the Mets in a short series with Santana, Pelfrey and Niece. The Reds have 5 major league caliber guys (which hasn't happened around here much) but when you cut it down for a short series, they can't match-up. Add Lee or Oswalt and it would look a lot better.

over a 162 game schedule a rotation of all #3 starters would theoretically be the same as having a #1-#2-#3-#4-#5. however, once the postseason starts your #5 never pitches & your #4 rarely does. as the Reds rotation stands right now they stack up terribly in a post season matchup with just about anyone they face. adding a real TOR starter is a must if the team wants to go deep in the postseason.

Scrap Irony
07-05-2010, 03:33 AM
My most convoluted trade possible, as per orders from jojo:

Reds trade Juan Francisco and Matt Maloney to Kansas City, Brad Boxberger to the Cubs, Chris Heisey to San Diego, and Yonder Alonso and Devin Mesoraco to Seattle.

KC trades David DeJesus to San Diego, Jose Guillen to the Cubs, and Alex Gordon to Baltimore.

San Diego trades SS prospect Drew Cumberland to Kansas City, and 3B/OF prospect Edinson Rincon and RP Joe Thatcher to Seattle.

Cubs trade Marlon Byrd to the Reds.

Seattle trades Cliff Lee to Cincinnati.

Baltimore trades Ty Wiggington to Cincinnati.

Kansas City gets prospects, immediate (cheap) major league depth that should make them interesting as early as next season, all the while shedding significant payroll in Guillen and DeJesus.

Seattle gets a young C, 1B, and closer, all of which could be All Star level talents as early as 2011, a great return for Lee, though a slight gamble.

San Diego gets the best OF on the market and another solid fourth OF who could be their second best offensive player now. All it costs are two prospects and their fourth best major league reliever.

Chicago get a live arm and a power bat for RF or LF for a player they didn't count on to begin with.

Baltimore gets an interesting prospect they can try out at the hot corner for an over the hill also-ran utility guy.

Cincinnati gets a TOR ace who's leaving at the end of the season (and the two draft picks that go with him), a fourth OF with experiece being a fourth OF (who can also play a solid CF if need be), and another utility guy who can play OF or corner IF spots.

GAC
07-05-2010, 06:49 AM
Alot of the NL West parks are pitchers parks, you can't say that about the NL Central; and Great American Ballpark being one of the worst for pitchers.

And that is a very good, and often overlooked, point. Especially if the guy you're looking at, and I'm not referring to anyone in particular, is a predominant FB pitcher.

mdccclxix
07-05-2010, 08:07 PM
First, you need to make the playoffs before you can worry about matchups. A TOR arm will help you get to the playoffs. Beyond that, if the Reds did make the playoffs without an Ace, why would it be okay to be the 3rd or 4th best rotation from that point on?

REDblooded
07-05-2010, 10:49 PM
One guy I'm kicking the tires on if the price is right is Brandon Webb... If he could return in August, and be in decent form come October, he would be a heck of a snag... I can't imagine the DBacks are gonna get much of value for him at this point, so why not be the team that takes the chance when you have a deep system?

LoganBuck
07-06-2010, 12:04 AM
One guy I'm kicking the tires on if the price is right is Brandon Webb... If he could return in August, and be in decent form come October, he would be a heck of a snag... I can't imagine the DBacks are gonna get much of value for him at this point, so why not be the team that takes the chance when you have a deep system?

I don't think Brandon Webb is an upgrade to the rotation anymore. What would you really expect him to look like? Shoulder injuries are very difficult to come back from. If you are dealing with Arizona stick to Haren.

REDblooded
07-06-2010, 03:29 AM
I don't think Brandon Webb is an upgrade to the rotation anymore. What would you really expect him to look like? Shoulder injuries are very difficult to come back from. If you are dealing with Arizona stick to Haren.


Why in the world is everybody stuck up Haren? His fly ball rates have increased, his HR's have increased, and he's a first half pitcher consistently... If Haren is who we want to hang our hats on, I'd rather pass...

REDblooded
07-06-2010, 03:50 AM
ahhh... and that arm has a TON of innings on it over the past 6 seasons...