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Mario-Rijo
07-03-2010, 05:49 PM
Put this in another thread but figured it would reach more folks this way. Thanks to the guys on the Sundeck for this nugget. Seems like this might have some legs IMO.

Link (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/415138-mlb-trade-rumors-carlos-marmol-to-cincinnati-reds-for-chris-heisey)

They also want either Boxberger or Donnie Joseph, read the story.


MLB Trade Rumors: Carlos Marmol To Cincinnati Reds for Chris Heisey
by Illya Harrell
Written on July 03, 2010

By Sunday evening, the Chicago Cubs will have a new outfielder, Chris Heisey, and the Cincinnati Reds will have a new relief pitcher, Carlos Marmol.

You heard it here first.

Sources are saying that, "Walt Jocketty and Jim Hendry are in serious discussions over a trade involving Chris Heisey and Carlos Marmol."

fearofpopvol1
07-03-2010, 05:51 PM
Heisey + Boxberger/Joseph for Marmol?

Yeah, no thanks. And I like Marmol a lot. I'd send them Heisey and Cordero for Marmol however.

Ron Madden
07-03-2010, 05:52 PM
I hope this isn't true.

I wouldn't trade Heisey for Marmol straight up.

Degenerate39
07-03-2010, 05:54 PM
SO is this offical or just a rumor? I really would hate to lose Hiesey

HeatherC1212
07-03-2010, 05:56 PM
No thanks to this one and I hope it's just a rumor.

Homer Bailey
07-03-2010, 05:57 PM
Marmol averages 5.91 BB/9 for his career.

He will drive me (and this board) insane.

Dude does miss bats though.

flyer85
07-03-2010, 06:03 PM
I would not. Marmol is way too unpredictable. I'd rather take my chances with Chapman.

TheNext44
07-03-2010, 06:07 PM
I believe Arroyo was traded a few years ago for Victorino in a similar blog. Maybe something to it, but the fact that no one else has anything on it makes it fishey.

As for the rumor, I'd trade Heisey for Marmol, no problem. But no way would I throw in Boxberger or Joseph. Those guys are one year away from being probsvly better than Marmol and are much cheaper.

I don't see it happening, at least not that way.

Mario-Rijo
07-03-2010, 06:08 PM
Well the Reds probably view Heisey as expendable with Gary Matthews Jr in AAA. And of course it's Walts M.O. to deal these high upside arms (Stewart, Haren) for parts so I can see him parting with Joseph or Boxberger. So I fully expect to see this deal get done. I probably fall on the side of sticking with what we have rather than dealing for Marmol but if he can throw strikes he will be well worth it. I guess that is asking for alot though.

pahster
07-03-2010, 06:17 PM
Marmol's BB/9 is very high, but his H/9 is also very low. He also struck out almost two thirds of the batters he's faced so far this year and well over two thirds of those he's faced over the course of his career. I like Heisey, but he's not exactly irreplaceable.

RedsManRick
07-03-2010, 06:18 PM
That might explain Heisey starting today... Maybe Hendry wanted a closer look. Marmol is nervewracking as heck, but his strikeouts are ridiculous.

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2010, 06:21 PM
I'm a big fan of Heisey but I'd consider dealing him for Marmol. But if the Reds had to include Boxberger or Joseph I would back out.

HokieRed
07-03-2010, 06:24 PM
I hope this isn't true.

I wouldn't trade Heisey for Marmol straight up.

Agree. Marmol's shelf life is likely to not be anywhere near that of Heisey. I really hope we do not do this trade.

flyer85
07-03-2010, 06:24 PM
Marmol is walking the razors edge. The BB rate goes up just a little or the K rate drops a little and his effectiveness evaporates.

redsfandan
07-03-2010, 06:30 PM
I can't see Marmol being moved out of closing. Cordero definitely likes to make things interesting but if they're going to trade for a reliever I'd rather it be for someone that's already a middle reliever.

Ron Madden
07-03-2010, 06:35 PM
Marmol is walking the razors edge. The BB rate goes up just a little or the K rate drops a little and his effectiveness evaporates.

I agree, I'm afraid this move would backfire. I wouldn't do it.

REDblooded
07-03-2010, 06:38 PM
Posted this in the other thread too, but will post here...

Jocketty and Hendry are VERY good friends, so wouldn't be crazy to see those two get together on a deal...

As for losing Heisey... Would sting quite a bit... If it's Boxberger we're talking, I pull the trigger. If it has to be Joseph, no thanks...

Marmol, while walking more than you'd like, is pretty much lights out... He has 69 K's in 38 IP, compared to Francisco at 34 in 38... Even with the walks, his WHIP is 1.24 compared to Francisco at 1.50...

Also, it gives the bullpen PLENTY of leverage options, and allows you to cycle the two in save opportunities when necessary instead of riding one sweating horse until it gives up from underneath you... Would also allow for Rhodes to be rested more than he currently has...

Yes, we lose some minor league talent... But in return get a young flamethrower to help anchor our pen and provide a massive amount of flexibility to one of this teams most glaring weaknesses, while giving up ZERO of the players rumored in a Lee deal...

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2010, 06:44 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Is bleacherreport a reliable website?

Big Klu
07-03-2010, 06:53 PM
That might explain Heisey starting today... Maybe Hendry wanted a closer look. Marmol is nervewracking as heck, but his strikeouts are ridiculous.

If so, then Heisey's baserunning gaffe in the seventh inning will fit right in with the Cubs' team concept.

Spitball
07-03-2010, 06:55 PM
With Fukudome, Byrd, Soriano, not to mention Colvin...where would Heisey fit into that picture? I understand why the Cubs would want either Boxberger or Joseph, but with three outfield spots locked up with long term contracts and Colvin needing playing time, when would they play Heisey?

Makes me wonder about the rumor...

Marc D
07-03-2010, 07:08 PM
With Fukudome, Byrd, Soriano, not to mention Colvin...where would Heisey fit into that picture? I understand why the Cubs would want either Boxberger or Joseph, but with three outfield spots locked up with long term contracts and Colvin needing playing time, when would they play Heisey?

Makes me wonder about the rumor...


I agree. Assuming these two teams are talking in general I'd offer something along the lines of we take Byrd and his salary plus Marmol or Marshall for less talent than Heisey and see what response that got.

Something along those lines. The Cubs need to shed contracts, I think that would be the hot button to push on them and obviously that means we'd have to have a 3rd dance partner in there somewhere.

Yankees are looking for bench depth and want to spend money rather than prospects. Who knows.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-03-2010, 07:17 PM
Heisey for Marmol straight up I like a lot, personally.

Add in the prospects and no thanks.

kbrake
07-03-2010, 07:21 PM
I'd be in favor of this move. Marmol would be much more valuable to this team than Heisey. I like Heisey but he is a bench player at this point and Marmol could really help this pen. All fans like their home grown guys but I think the Reds would be foolish to pass on Marmol like OBM said, I'll believe it when I see it.

corkedbat
07-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Agree with most - Heisey? Probably. With Joseph or Boxberger? Nah. I'd rather do Heisey with Fisher. Not sure I wouldn't rather give Joesph a shot and hold onto Heisey.

I'm not saying I wouldn't deal Boxburger or Joseph, but not for Marmol. If you can still improve the team and hold on to them I would. I'd groom them as my candidates to replace Cordero and Rhodes.

RedLegSuperStar
07-03-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm ok if its player for player.. if the Reds have to give up more the Cubs can have their one positive thing for the season and ride him till his arm falls off.

Perhaps the Reds then would send Alonso, Mesocaro, and Marmol to the M's for Lee...

kbrake
07-03-2010, 07:37 PM
I'm ok if its player for player.. if the Reds have to give up more the Cubs can have their one positive thing for the season and ride him till his arm falls off.

Perhaps the Reds then would send Alonso, Mesocaro, and Marmol to the M's for Lee...

If this is true which I have doubts just because it doesn't seem to be anywhere else, I would think it is this move first and then they would add Lee. I think Walt knows this team has a chance.

You can hold prospects and hope for 2011 and 2012 but there is no promise that there will be 4 punching bags in the division in the future. There is no team dominating in the NL right now and if the Reds add Marmol and Lee it really elevates them. The prospects might be good, but our time might be now.

Playadlc
07-03-2010, 07:37 PM
Heisey for Marmol straight up I like a lot, personally.

Add in the prospects and no thanks.

Exactly this. I would be all over a Marmol for Heisey deal.

Degenerate39
07-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Who comes the the other outfielder? I dont think any of us want to answer that

dougdirt
07-03-2010, 07:48 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Is bleacherreport a reliable website?

Anyone can create an account and write an article on BR. Anyone. No one gets paid to write there. Like I said, with all due respect to Illya, the writer, I seriously have my doubts that he of all people landed this scoop while no one else has touched it.

HeatherC1212
07-03-2010, 07:48 PM
I am DEFINITELY not in favor of any move that allows a certain player in Louisville any chance on being brought up to the Reds this year. I hope I don't have to mention the name of said player here. :eek:

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2010, 07:51 PM
Anyone can create an account and write an article on BR. Anyone. No one gets paid to write there. Like I said, with all due respect to Illya, the writer, I seriously have my doubts that he of all people landed this scoop while no one else has touched it.

Thanks. I'll say it again - I'll believe it when I saw it. I'd say there's probably about a 1% chance this happens.

kbrake
07-03-2010, 07:54 PM
Who comes the the other outfielder? I dont think any of us want to answer that

Chris Dickerson. I don't know how soon he will be back but I don't think GMJ would be up here right away.

corkedbat
07-03-2010, 07:56 PM
I am DEFINITELY not in favor of any move that allows a certain player in Louisville any chance on being brought up to the Reds this year. I hope I don't have to mention the name of said player here. :eek:


Seeing as you are the head of the GMJ fanclub on these boards Heather, you don't need to say a thing. ;) <Ducks!>

HeatherC1212
07-03-2010, 08:00 PM
Seeing as you are the head of the GMJ fanclub on these boards Heather, you don't need to say a thing. ;) <Ducks!>

*pelts you with so many tomatoes you'll be seeing red for the next two weeks* :p:

I am the official head of the JOEY VOTTO fan club and don't you forget it. :beerme: ;)

reds44
07-03-2010, 08:02 PM
No thanks to this one and I hope it's just a rumor.
WHAT?

Are you kidding me? If this is true, I'll be doing backflips.

I mean really, I don't think there's a chance in hell the Cubs will do this trade.

corkedbat
07-03-2010, 08:04 PM
*pelts you with so many tomatoes you'll be seeing red for the next two weeks* :p:

I am the official head of the JOEY VOTTO fan club and don't you forget it. :beerme: ;)

SALSA! Yum! Wouldn't have any Cilantro would ya? :D

HeatherC1212
07-03-2010, 08:07 PM
SALSA! Yum! Wouldn't have any Cilantro would ya? :D

I'm out of that but I can offer you some pepper and ginger if you can make something out of those two things, LOL :laugh:

Back on topic now....I'm still on board with no thank you to this trade. :p:

corkedbat
07-03-2010, 08:15 PM
Wonder if Price could help Marmol cut back on the BBs?. He's the kind of power arm I'd like to have, but not at the full-price mentioned.

reds44
07-03-2010, 08:19 PM
Just saw it was on bleacher report. There's a 0% chance this is true.

kbrake
07-03-2010, 08:29 PM
That sucks was really hoping for that.

Ghosts of 1990
07-03-2010, 10:50 PM
OMG.... I'd go nuts.

Guy is a STUD (Marmol). Heisey is not gonna turn into much. He's Chris Denorfia with better size.

That said, I'll guarantee you it doesn't happen.

Hap
07-03-2010, 10:54 PM
one time in 2002, bill cunningham said bartolo colon would be a Red by "the end of the day" according to his sources

Big Klu
07-03-2010, 10:54 PM
OMG.... I'd go nuts.

Guy is a STUD (Marmol). Heisey is not gonna turn into much. He's Chris Denorfia with better size.

That said, I'll guarantee you it doesn't happen.

I think Heisey is more like Tracy Jones without the cocky attitude.

Ghosts of 1990
07-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Bleacher Report is so, so bad.

I don't even read articles on BR. That's how false and Madden-ish all their fantasy trades are. I thought the report was from MLBTR, and got excited. No way this happens.

TheNext44
07-03-2010, 11:09 PM
I agree, I'm afraid this move would backfire. I wouldn't do it.

I agree that Marmol is a risk, and like so many relievers, he could turn into a pumpkin in the blink of an eye, especially with his walk rate. But I don't see Heisey ever being much more than a nice fourth outfielder, so I wouldn't mind taking that risk.

But I am 100% behind your skepticism of trading for relievers. To quote a posters username: Caveat Emptor.

KronoRed
07-03-2010, 11:12 PM
I think Heisey is more like Tracy Jones without the cocky attitude.

Hey..he played the game :D

VR
07-03-2010, 11:17 PM
I think Heisey is more like Tracy Jones without the cocky attitude.

He reminds me of Chris Stynes w/ a higher ceiling.

Big Klu
07-03-2010, 11:28 PM
He reminds me of Chris Stynes w/ a higher ceiling.

Stynes could play 2B and 3B, which Heisey doesn't do.

Heisey reminds me of Jones because he is a right-handed hitter, can play all three OF positions, has above average speed, and has extra-base power (though he's not a true HR threat). What he doesn't have is Jones' cocky, arrogant attitude.

Captain Hook
07-04-2010, 12:06 AM
I would really like to see Heisey get a chance at some regular PT before he gets traded but I guess that's one of the problems with the Reds being good.

johngalt
07-04-2010, 12:40 AM
Thanks. I'll say it again - I'll believe it when I saw it. I'd say there's probably about a 1% chance this happens.

The chances are much, much higher than 1%.

Caveat Emperor
07-04-2010, 01:05 AM
I doubt this rumor is true, but I wouldn't be at all shocked if Heisey gets moved for bullpen help.

In fact, I'd say it's probably likely that either he or Yonder Alonso won't be with the organization in a month.

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2010, 01:25 AM
Chris Stynes! Didn't he hit like .345 one year? Or was it a half of a season? I am pretty sure he hit like .340 in 2000 for a good part of the year.

Scrap Irony
07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
Heisey is a good guy to have around as a fourth OF. He might be better than that, but this version of the Reds will never find that out. I expect him to be gone in a month.

The one I don't wanna see gone is Joseph. Arms like his are really, really nice to have. (It's an arm similar to Marmol's but without the BBs.)

Hap
07-04-2010, 11:48 AM
the cubs could do better that just heisey and a prospect for marmol.......

PuffyPig
07-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Marmol's BB/9 is very high, but his H/9 is also very low. He also struck out almost two thirds of the batters he's faced so far this year and well over two thirds of those he's faced over the course of his career.

This year he has struck out 42% of the batters he's faced, which is fabulous but well below 2/3rds.

And over the cousre of hi scareer he has struck out 30% of the batters he has faced, which again great, but well below the "well over 2/3rds of those he's faced" numbwer being thrown around.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

PuffyPig
07-04-2010, 12:00 PM
the cubs could do better that just heisey and a prospect for marmol.......


That really depends on who the prospect is, isn't it?

pahster
07-04-2010, 12:19 PM
This year he has struck out 42% of the batters he's faced, which is fabulous but well below 2/3rds.

And over the cousre of hi scareer he has struck out 30% of the batters he has faced, which again great, but well below the "well over 2/3rds of those he's faced" numbwer being thrown around.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

My bad, those percentages are for the kind of out he gets, not total percentage of batters faced.

Kc61
07-04-2010, 12:23 PM
I would trade Heisey for Marmol straight up. Heisey is a good young player but Stubbs is the starter in CF and will continue to be.

Marmol is the kind of arm the Reds need to help put them over the top.

I would be very reluctant to include Boxberger but would consider it. I wouldn't include Joseph.

JaxRed
07-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Probably means nothing but neither Box or Joseph pitched last night.

TRF
07-04-2010, 12:40 PM
You only deal Heisey IF:


You think Gomes is a real option for the next year or two.
Someone in AAA is the answer LF.
Payflex allows you to get a bat in th offseason.
it's just the first move...


One of those PLUS you think Stubbs is the real deal as a bat in CF. We know the D is real, but is the bat? Will his bat ever come around?

BTW, Heisey is Ludwick with defense, IMO. Maybe better.

PuffyPig
07-04-2010, 04:59 PM
One of those PLUS you think Stubbs is the real deal as a bat in CF. We know the D is real, but is the bat? Will his bat ever come around?



If Subbs simply does what he had done this season in his career he is a very good major league CF.

.729 OPS, gold glove defense and speed to burn. On pace for 20+ HR's and and 80+ RBI's.

RedLegSuperStar
07-04-2010, 05:18 PM
This noob needs to stop living a fantasy and leave trade rumors to the rest of the ESPNs and Fox Sports and beat writers

_Sir_Charles_
07-04-2010, 05:27 PM
I just now saw this. I like Heisey, quite a bit. But a legit pen arm for him? Yeah, I'd have to bite. I know some prefer Chris over Stubbs for center, but I just don't see that. Drew may be having some rookie issues, but his upside is phenomenal. As for Heisey in left...I don't think he's got the power for that position.

As for Marmol...he's certainly wild, but it's somewhat effectively wild. I vote yes on this deal.

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2010, 07:05 PM
Hmmmm, is Marmol a Red yet?

I'll never read BR again. Not that I did before.