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texasdave
07-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Here is the quote of the millenium (so far) from Dusty Baker:


“People were upset because we were playing Willy, but we were playing Willy because we were trying to trade Willy,” Baker said. “You can’t trade somebody if he isn’t playing. Not to go back in the past, but don’t that make sense?”

Let's recap. The Rockies couldn't trade him for a bag of baseballs so they just dump him. The Reds bid against themselves, I suppose, and sign Taveras to a ridiculous two-year contract. And now we are supposed to believe that the Reds were forced to play him because they were trying to trade him??!!? The Reds signed him in order to trade him when they had already seen that nobody wanted him? Think about that pretzel logic. We know nobody wants him so we will sign him to an inflated contract in order to trade him. What? Did they think they were going to maximize his value by overpaying him? And if the Reds were really trying to trade him they should have sat him because his value went down every time he stepped onto the field. I certainly can't figure that one out. So, no Dusty, it doesn't make any sense.

webbbj
07-04-2010, 11:21 AM
when did this get said, last year? this is old news imo. dont know why this would even be discussed or even a question directed toward dusty this time of year.

texasdave
07-04-2010, 11:27 AM
when did this get said, last year? this is old news imo. dont know why this would even be discussed or even a question directed toward dusty this time of year.

It was reported in John Fay's blog on July 3rd of this year. That was all of yesterday; so I can see where you would think it is old news. Maybe that answers why it is just now being brought up. It was just now said.

TheBigLebowski
07-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Willy Tavares makes me sad.

ILoveWilly
07-04-2010, 12:57 PM
But he's fast, dude.

Kingspoint
07-04-2010, 03:04 PM
Here is the quote of the millenium (so far) from Dusty Baker:



Let's recap. The Rockies couldn't trade him for a bag of baseballs so they just dump him. The Reds bid against themselves, I suppose, and sign Taveras to a ridiculous two-year contract. And now we are supposed to believe that the Reds were forced to play him because they were trying to trade him??!!? The Reds signed him in order to trade him when they had already seen that nobody wanted him? Think about that pretzel logic. We know nobody wants him so we will sign him to an inflated contract in order to trade him. What? Did they think they were going to maximize his value by overpaying him? And if the Reds were really trying to trade him they should have sat him because his value went down every time he stepped onto the field. I certainly can't figure that one out. So, no Dusty, it doesn't make any sense.

BS. Dusty is trying to come up with a reason why he's a dumb manager so he can get a contract extension and get the public to be on his side. He finally admits that playing a sub-.300 OBP guy at the top of the order was a bad idea. But, how does that explain him doing it before Taveras got here and that he's been doing it all season this year with Cabrera?

lidspinner
07-04-2010, 10:39 PM
Dusty Baker...........:thumbdown

Mutaman
07-04-2010, 11:25 PM
After years of bad baseball it finally looks like we got a nice little team. We're in first place, everyone is playing hard, everyone seeems to know their role, and the team chemestry seems to be great. We just hit seven home runs and took 3 out of 4 from the Cubs in their own ball park.

And despite all that, there are folks here still *****ing about the manager. Go figure.

scott91575
07-04-2010, 11:26 PM
It was reported in John Fay's blog on July 3rd of this year. That was all of yesterday; so I can see where you would think it is old news. Maybe that answers why it is just now being brought up. It was just now said.

I think they mentioned it in the game today. They were comparing Stubbs' playing time to Tavares. Dusty said the reason Tavares got playing time was they wanted to trade him, but Stubbs is getting playing time because he has a ton of upside.

I could be wrong, but that is what Thom said during the broadcast today.

It doesn't matter, we are talking about a guy who sends his pitcher to hit in a 3 run game, 2 outs, a man in scoring position, and planned on replacing him the next inning (with an All Star on your bench able to pinch hit). A guy that sends a mediocre runner on a hit and run with one of the worst contact hitters in the league at the plate. A man who actually stated on more than one occasion a slow player taking a walk is clogging up the bases. I am telling you, the man has had a series of strokes, or a lobotomy, or something. That is why he is a great players manager, but he cannot figure out logical situations on the field of play better than a 3 year old. Hey, so far that works, but he is no genius.

Lockdwn11
07-04-2010, 11:32 PM
I think they mentioned it in the game today. They were comparing Stubbs' playing time to Tavares. Dusty said the reason Tavares got playing time was they wanted to trade him, but Stubbs is getting playing time because he has a ton of upside.

I could be wrong, but that is what Thom said during the broadcast today.

It doesn't matter, we are talking about a guy who sends his pitcher to hit in a 3 run game, 2 outs, a man in scoring position, and planned on replacing him the next inning (with an All Star on your bench able to pinch hit). A guy that sends a mediocre runner on a hit and run with one of the worst contact hitters in the league at the plate. A man who actually stated on more than one occasion a slow player taking a walk is clogging up the bases. I am telling you, the man has had a series of strokes, or a lobotomy, or something. That is why he is a great players manager, but he cannot figure out logical situations on the field of play better than a 3 year old. Hey, so far that works, but he is no genius.


To be fair that pitcher is hitting close to .400 and the reasoning he gave for not hitting Rolin made sense to me. First base was open and they would have just walked him and you would have wasted your best bat off the bench.

scott91575
07-04-2010, 11:58 PM
To be fair that pitcher is hitting close to .400 and the reasoning he gave for not hitting Rolin made sense to me. First base was open and they would have just walked him and you would have wasted your best bat off the bench.

That makes sense?

So you believe....

#1 Leake is actually going to be close to a .400 hitter for his career or anywhere near the hitter of Rolen or Phillips (see the next points)
#2 The Phils would actually walk Rolen to get to Phillips and put the tying run at the plate.
#3 and therefore you still would take Leake hitting with 1 on vs. Phillips hitting with 2 on with the possibility of tying up the game. You know, a guy who had already tripled off of Blanton in that very game vs. a pitcher who has 1 extra base hit in his entire career.

Heck, if Leake is so good vs. a guy like Rolen or anyone else on the bench, his ass should be pinch hitting more.

I actually think less of Dusty now after that explanation. It actually combines the base clogging belief with the stupidity of having the pitcher hit.

Seriously, that actually makes sense to you? Really?

Although I guess it was a good thing he saved Rolen for later in the game to pinch hit. Oh wait, he never did use him. Another Dusty peeve. He saves guys who would be very useful at the time for just in case scenarios that never occur.

Don't get me wrong, I think Dusty is actually good for the clubhouse atmosphere, but he is one of the worst in game managers in baseball.

Lockdwn11
07-05-2010, 12:05 AM
That makes sense?

So you believe....

#1 Leake is actually going to be close to a .400 hitter for his career or anywhere near the hitter of Rolen or Phillips (see the next points)
#2 The Phils would actually walk Rolen to get to Phillips and put the tying run at the plate.
#3 and therefore you still would take Leake hitting with 1 on vs. Phillips hitting with 2 on with the possibility of tying up the game. You know, a guy who had already tripled off of Blanton in that very game vs. a pitcher who has 1 extra base hit in his entire career.

Heck, if Leake is so good vs. a guy like Rolen or anyone else on the bench, his ass should be pinch hitting more.

I actually think less of Dusty now after that explanation. It actually combines the base clogging belief with the stupidity of having the pitcher hit.

Seriously, that actually makes sense to you? Really?

Sure does. I wouldn't have done it that way but I can see why he did it. Either way I wouldn't have used up Rolin there like you said he should have, would I have pinch hit there yep but not with the guy you wanted.You would have waisted your best bat off the bench and that makes sense to you?

Mutaman
07-05-2010, 12:10 AM
[QUOTE=scott91575;2143554]That makes sense?

Seriously, that actually makes sense to you? Really?

QUOTE]

Makes a lot more sense than making a federal case out of a trivial incident that happened over a week ago.

scott91575
07-05-2010, 12:13 AM
Sure does. I wouldn't have done it that way but I can see why he did it. Either way I wouldn't have used up Rolin there like you said he should have, would I have pinch hit there yep but not with the guy you wanted.You would have waisted your best bat off the bench and that makes sense to you?

Umm, yeah (see my edit). First off, you are assuming he gets walked (that is in no way a sure thing, and most managers would not do that with Phillips up next). A walk would be great, especially if you think he is the only guy that is going to get walked. Get Phillips up with 2 on. Why save someone for a just in case that never happens.

I could even see using a different pinch hitter, but neither Rolen nor another pinch hitter is going to get walked with an everyday hitter behind him that is hitting almost .400 and an OPS over .900 during that month. Therefore Rolen is the best choice.

The Voice of IH
07-05-2010, 12:13 AM
The whole Willy Taveras debacle gives me headaches that I don't care to have. Please lets not get stuck on the past...we all know that the Reds (not just baker,,,everyone on the staff and in the offices) really messed up there.

Lockdwn11
07-05-2010, 12:16 AM
Umm, yeah (see my edit). First off, you are assuming he gets walked (that is in no way a sure thing, and most managers would not do that with Phillips up next). A walk would be great, especially if you think he is the only guy that is going to get walked. Get Phillips up with 2 on. Why save someone for a just in case that never happens.

I could even see using a different pinch hitter, but neither Rolen nor another pinch hitter is going to get walked with an everyday hitter behind him that is hitting almost .400 and an OPS over .900 during that month. Therefore Rolen is the best choice.

Thats your opinion and I respect it. I just don't see how that one decision is a big deal.

mitchn
07-05-2010, 12:18 AM
Why are you bringing this up now? I have moved on I don't know about you.

scott91575
07-05-2010, 12:22 AM
[QUOTE=scott91575;2143554]That makes sense?

Seriously, that actually makes sense to you? Really?

QUOTE]

Makes a lot more sense than making a federal case out of a trivial incident that happened over a week ago.

Ah yes, I was making a federal case out of nowhere.

It is one example of many concerning Baker's managerial decisions and beliefs. It was picked out by another poster as making sense, and I stated multiple reasons it did not. Yeah, that's a federal case. Silly me for discussing Dusty Baker's continual strange baseball beliefs, in a thread about Dusty Baker's strange past decisions (one that took place a lot longer than over a week ago), on a Reds message board. Silly me.

scott91575
07-05-2010, 12:24 AM
Thats your opinion and I respect it. I just don't see how that one decision is a big deal.

As noted in my original post, it's one of multiple issues. You picked that one out, and I defended my viewpoint on that issue.

Reds
07-05-2010, 12:29 AM
I'm still waiting, patiently, for those stolen bases Willy promised.

Lockdwn11
07-05-2010, 12:32 AM
As noted in my original post, it's one of multiple issues. You picked that one out, and I defended my viewpoint on that issue.

Why can't you just be happy with being 11 games over .500 and in first place why dwell on what you perceive as bad decisions by Dusty Baker.

Lockdwn11
07-05-2010, 12:37 AM
By the way I can't believe I am defending Dusty Baker but some people are just ridiculous.

scott91575
07-05-2010, 12:39 AM
Why can't you just be happy with being 11 games over .500 and in first place why dwell on what you perceive as bad decisions by Dusty Baker.

becuase it's a topic about a Dusty Baker decision that makes little sense, and I pointed out other times he made decisions that make no sense. Why do you feel the need to ignore that, in a topic on that very subject, because the Reds are in first place. My posts are more relevant to the subject than "hey, we are in first place!"

I am happy the Reds are in first place. I have even stated that I think Dusty is a good clubhouse manager. Yet his strange decisions seem a lot more relevant in this thread than "Yay! First place!"

It's amazing how many people think criticism means people are not happy the Reds are in first.

bubbachunk
07-05-2010, 12:42 AM
ITT: Beating a dead horse

Mutaman
07-05-2010, 01:54 AM
Now that I think about it I remember a game last year when Baker sent Laynce Nix up to pinch hit even though he had Micah Owens available on the bench (or maybe it was the other way around). Anyhow this move proved that Baker is no genius, and has had a series of strokes , and a lobotomy. And then there was the time back in 2008 when he started Paul Baco instead of David Ross in a game against the Pirates . And there's lots more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're in first place, but Baker has to go. :rolleyes:

gedred69
07-05-2010, 01:56 AM
The whole Willy Taveras debacle gives me headaches that I don't care to have. Please lets not get stuck on the past...we all know that the Reds (not just baker,,,everyone on the staff and in the offices) really messed up there.

Somehow certain people miss this fact. Thr Front Office makes the deals and extends the contracts, not the field Mgr. (I find myself in the odd position of offering defense of Dusty)..............

scott91575
07-05-2010, 04:50 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're in first place, but Baker has to go. :rolleyes:

This is what I love about people on this board. Not only did I not say he had to go, but the examples are weak.

Anyway, you guys keep right on reading whatever you want that makes you feel high and mighty. I guess everyone at Microsoft, being in first place in operating systems, says "hey, we are selling the most operating systems. Good job everyone! You all get perfect appraisals and no one has done anything wrong! We cannot criticize you becuase we are #1! That is what makes great companies great!' Oh, and all their customers sit back and sing their praises because they are #1.

Dusty has made some downright awful decisions, and everyone here knows it. It's not moves that just didn't work out, it's moves that are not even in the realm of rational thinking. I am sorry for expecting rational decisions from a MLB manager. From now all it's all sunshine and lollipops for fear I might upset anyone here who clicks on a Dusty thread talking about a bad decision and actually hears criticism of Dusty Baker. Dear lord, criticism of a teams manager. Heaven forbid!

All hail Dusty, the man who does no wrong!!!!

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 04:14 PM
Anyway, you guys keep right on reading whatever you want that makes you feel high and mighty. I guess everyone at Microsoft, being in first place in operating systems, says "hey, we are selling the most operating systems. Good job everyone! You all get perfect appraisals and no one has done anything wrong! We cannot criticize you becuase we are #1! That is what makes great companies great!' Oh, and all their customers sit back and sing their praises because they are #1.

Dusty has made some downright awful decisions, and everyone here knows it. It's not moves that just didn't work out, it's moves that are not even in the realm of rational thinking. I am sorry for expecting rational decisions from a MLB manager. From now all it's all sunshine and lollipops for fear I might upset anyone here who clicks on a Dusty thread talking about a bad decision and actually hears criticism of Dusty Baker. Dear lord, criticism of a teams manager. Heaven forbid!

All hail Dusty, the man who does no wrong!!!!

Good analogy.

Orodle
07-05-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm glad Dusty was more concerned with trading Willie than winning baseball games.