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View Full Version : Harang scratched from start tonight; Wood staring on 3 days rest instead



GADawg
07-05-2010, 07:37 PM
is he sick or packing his bags?

fearofpopvol1
07-05-2010, 07:38 PM
Supposedly back spasms or something back related for Harang.

But Wood starting on 3 days rest?? Not sure that is a good idea.

dougdirt
07-05-2010, 07:40 PM
Supposedly back spasms or something back related for Harang.

But Wood starting on 3 days rest?? Not sure that is a good idea.

I wonder what the other options are. Not a fan of anyone going on short rest, but is there another option? Owings pitched yesterday, he can't start. They can't fly someone in on such short notice.

Raisor
07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
Paul Janish can't buy a start.

RedsMan3203
07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
Per Sheldon


m_sheldon

#reds have scratched Aaron Harang b/c of lower back pain. Travis Wood will start tonight vs. #mets

Tom Servo
07-05-2010, 07:44 PM
That's unexpected.

fearofpopvol1
07-05-2010, 07:44 PM
I wonder what the other options are. Not a fan of anyone going on short rest, but is there another option? Owings pitched yesterday, he can't start. They can't fly someone in on such short notice.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I'm not sure what else they could do.

dougdirt
07-05-2010, 07:45 PM
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I'm not sure what else they could do.

Yeah, I just hope they lower his pitch count from his normal range. Maybe limit him to 75-80 pitches or so and hand it over to the bullpen.

Cyclone792
07-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Wood only threw 91 pitches in his debut so that's not too bad. I'm hoping Wood's just getting the start in name only and isn't expected to throw too many pitches. Hope he can get through four or five innings and then hand it over to Owings and/or the rest of the pen.

The Operator
07-05-2010, 07:52 PM
Harang for Cliff Lee straight up trade in the works? :p:

/kidding

Joseph
07-05-2010, 08:02 PM
Harang for Cliff Lee straight up trade in the works? :p:

/kidding

Cliff Clavin maybe.

Blitz Dorsey
07-05-2010, 08:03 PM
They are saying the team is hopeful Harang can make the start tomorrow night.

CTA513
07-05-2010, 08:07 PM
They are saying the team is hopeful Harang can make the start tomorrow night.

A poster on Metsblog.com said that Reyes was supposed to start tomorrow so he could bat right handed against Wood. I wonder if this will cause him to miss another day now that Wood won't be pitching tomorrow.

VR
07-05-2010, 08:26 PM
I said it when I saw him in Seattle....he short striding his delivery more than he ever has....and his MPH has dropped 3-4 mph. Not a big surprise a back problem was in the works. I hope it's spasms......but I think he'll be out for a bit.

Ghosts of 1990
07-05-2010, 08:41 PM
I got so excited I 'ran' here to check to see if maybe we got someone to take Mr. Gasoline Tank off our hands. I'm sure someone will be able to find a statistic to prove that he hasn't been all that bad; but I think he's got as hittable of stuff as anyone I've seen in a long time.

Blitz Dorsey
07-05-2010, 09:09 PM
I got so excited I 'ran' here to check to see if maybe we got someone to take Mr. Gasoline Tank off our hands. I'm sure someone will be able to find a statistic to prove that he hasn't been all that bad; but I think he's got as hittable of stuff as anyone I've seen in a long time.

Ya know, if you don't count the 10 bad starts he's had, Harang hasn't been all that bad. ;-)

Reds Freak
07-06-2010, 09:56 AM
I really hope Harang is able to start one of these next two games against the Mets. The way he gives up the long ball, I'd much rather have him start at Citi Field than in Philly...

Screwball
07-06-2010, 10:13 AM
I got so excited I 'ran' here to check to see if maybe we got someone to take Mr. Gasoline Tank off our hands. I'm sure someone will be able to find a statistic to prove that he hasn't been all that bad; but I think he's got as hittable of stuff as anyone I've seen in a long time.

Yeah, I hate it when someone uses facts and evidence to back up their claims. It's much more convincing to ridicule the player with some cliche name-calling.

nemesis
07-06-2010, 10:58 AM
I'm sure someone will be able to find a statistic to prove that he hasn't been all that bad.

Ask and Ye shall receive...

After a terrible April, which all the starters had but Leake...

May - 6 Starts / 3-2 / 4.26 ERA / 38 Inn / 42 H / 8 BB / 31 K / .269 BAA / 1.32 WHIP / 3 QS


June - 6 Starts / 2-2 / 4.15 ERA / 34.2 Inn / 39 H / 13 BB / 23 K / .271 BAA / 1.50 WHIP / 4 QS or 67%

Has given up more than 4 ER's once in his last 13 starts. Has went 6 Inn or more in 11 of his last 13 starts.



So in June the ERA's went...

Arroyo 3.60
Harang 4.15
Cueto 4.54
Leake 5.22
LeCure 5.27

WHIP...

Arroyo 1.14
Cueto 1.43
Harang 1.50
LeCure 1.72
Leake 1.77

QS...

Harang 4 (67%)
Arroyo 3 (60%)
Cueto 2 (33%)
LeCure 1 (20%)
Leake 1 (20%)

Wins...

Cueto 3
Harang 2
Arroyo 2
LeCure 1
Leake 1

Innings per start for June (For the season)

Arroyo 7.00 (6.61)
Cueto 6.28 (6.10)
Leake 5.82 (6.33)
Harang 5.78 (5.90)
LeCure 5.47 (5.63) Includes Bailey's, LeCure's and Wood's combined totals.

nemesis
07-06-2010, 11:35 AM
Since it plays a factor and out of the pitchers control, I'll put this here too...

Run support per start...

Bailey 6.44 (0 Shut outs)
Wood 5.50 (0 Shut outs)
LeCure 5.20 (Shut out in 1 start)
Leake 5.13 (Shut out in 1 starts)
Arroyo 5.12 (0 Shut outs)
Cueto 5.05 (Shut out in 2 starts, his only 2 losses)
Harang 5.00 (Shut out in 3 starts)

He gets the worst RS out of all 7 starters so far this year.


Teams W-L when pitching...

#1 Arroyo 11-6 (8-4 since April / No Shut out losses)

#2 Cueto 11-6 (9-3 since April / 1 loss was a Shut out )

#3 Harang 7-10 (6-6 since April / 3 losses were Shut outs)

#4 Leake 10-6 (7-5 since April / 1 loss was a Shut out)

#5 Bailey 5-4
Wood 2-0
LeCure 2-4

Total - 9-8



QS for season...

Leake - 12 of 16 or 75%
Harang - 9 of 17 or 53%
Arroyo - 9 of 17 or 53%
Cueto - 8 of 17 or 47%
#5 guys - 6 of 17 or 35%

medford
07-06-2010, 12:01 PM
so in otherwords, Harang has been roughly a league average starting pitcher, a solid #3 or #4 for the last 2 months. But why let facts get in the way of a good rant. Forget his contract, its already a sunk cost unless we're talking about picking up his option next year (doubtful). Forget that he's not the pitcher that he used to be. Aaron has been a solid starter for 2 months, and I doubt that changes much going forward. He's not the staff ace, but he's not worth sending down to AAA. I think a lot of people place their faith on the hope of future prospects rather than the real life return they're getting on their current major leaguers. Remember all the talk about how no one wanted Aaron to face off vs the Phils last week, they'd prefer Wood get the call from AAA to face all those lefties. Seems like Aaron did just fine verse those phils. Taking nothing away from Wood and what he did vs the Cubs in his debut, nor what he did on short rest last night more or less, but I have more faith that Harangatang will continue to be a league average pitcher the rest of the year, then putting my faith in an unproven rookie. I wouldn't hesitate to bump him to the bullpen if they pick up a Cliff Lee type for the stretch run, but I'm not going to run him off this year just because I hope there is something better brewing in AAA. At least not as long as he continues pitching like he has the last 2 months.

nemesis
07-06-2010, 12:10 PM
Here are the team's SP targets just for reference...

Lee...

11 QS (85%) 6 of 6 in June (100%)
Team is 9-4 when he starts (5-1 in June)
4.85 RS (Shut out 1 time)
Avg 7.98 Inn per start
0.86 WHIP in June
1.76 ERA in June

Haren...

10 QS (56%) in June 4 of 6 (67%)
Team is 7 - 11 when he starts (2-4 in June)
4.50 RS (shut out 1 time)
Avg 6.85 Inn per start
1.23 WHIP in June
3.19 ERA in June

Carmona...

13 QS (77%) 5 of 6 in June (83%)
Team is 7-10 when he starts (3-3 in June)
3.59 RS (Shut out 1 time)
Avg 6.45 Inn per start
1.20 WHIP in June
3.66 ERA in June

_Sir_Charles_
07-06-2010, 12:24 PM
Harang 5.00 (Shut out in 3 starts)

He gets the worst RS out of all 7 starters so far this year.



Something to toss in there is that Aaron is also the worst HITTER of the pitchers too. So that's probably contributed to the lowest run support.

He HAS improved though...but the other pitchers have been stroking the ball quite well (especially the 2 rooks).

Far East
07-06-2010, 12:32 PM
...He gets the worst RS out of all 7 starters so far this year...

I have no dog in this fight, but helping contribute to his low run support might be Aaron's own relatively low batting stats -- compared to other Reds' pitchers (I did not look up the actual numbers, however).

nate
07-06-2010, 01:01 PM
The average NL pitcher has a .155/.193/.193/.386 slash.

Harang: .152/.152/.182/.333

Must be that .050 of OPS he's giving away.

Or is it?

Cueto: .138/.138/.138/.276

Harang has scored 2 runs, that's good for second on the team tied with 2 others just behind Mike Leake with 4. Harang has two RBI, good for third behind Arroyo (7) and Owings (3).

I think the argument that he's so bad a hitter that it cuts into his run support appreciably more than an average NL pitcher is a non-starter.

Will M
07-06-2010, 01:13 PM
I think that one of the reasons that folks are kinda anti Harang is that we all realize that the rotation could use an upgrade somewhere. (Just as there are folks who would like to upgrade SS, LF & the pen). Cueto & Arroyo are probably our best two pitchers yet neither is a #1. Leake, Bailey & Wood are younger guys we would like to keep. That leaves Harang as the guy people would like to move & magically replace with a TOR arm. Nothing wrong with this thinking. However, it may cloud people's judgement as to the fact that Harang is a servicable BOR starter.

Hoosier Red
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
I'm thinking the best answer is to replace Leake at the end of July with the best starter we can trade for. Replace Wood with Volquez and you have a rotation of

Trade
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Harang

If someone wants to trade for Harang, that's fine by me. Wood is a perfectly suitable replacement.

nemesis
07-06-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm thinking the best answer is to replace Leake at the end of July with the best starter we can trade for. Replace Wood with Volquez and you have a rotation of

Trade
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Harang

If someone wants to trade for Harang, that's fine by me. Wood is a perfectly suitable replacement.

Agreed on all accounts.

Redsfan320
07-06-2010, 03:23 PM
From Fay:


The Reds are listing tonight’s starter as TBA (to be announced). Aaron Harang was hopeful that his back would be OK.

But a Matt Maloney is registered at the team home hotel. Coincidence or insurance?

320

Redsfan320
07-06-2010, 03:26 PM
From texasdave on the Sun Deck:


Sheep to the slaughter:

The Reds have called up three (if Maloney is actually going tonight) pitchers from Louisville to man the fifth spot. Here have been their mound opponents.

Code:

Pitcher Mound Foe 2010 ERA
LeCure W.Rodriguez 5.30
LeCure Carpenter 3.16
LeCure Cain 2.98
LeCure Greinke 3.94
LeCure Hernandez 3.01
LeCure Masterson 4.85

Wood Silva 2.96
Wood Pelphrey 3.39
Maloney Santana 3.41

Welcome to The Show.

Our 5th guys can't catch a break!

320

fearofpopvol1
07-06-2010, 03:33 PM
If Maloney is going, this would be a good game for him to pitch in. Citi Field is quite pitcher friendly.

The only thing that would suck is it would mean Reyes will be in the lineup batting right-handed.

guttle11
07-06-2010, 04:38 PM
From Fay:



320

John Fay, getting his TMZ on by checking the hotel registry. I like it.

medford
07-06-2010, 04:49 PM
If Harang is placed on the DL, can it be retroactive back to his last start (June 30th?) or does it have to go back to yesterday (or I guess today and July 1st to be 1 day after his last apperance)?

If its back to July 1st, they could give Maloney today, use whomever out of the pen for the Philly series, as well as the first couple of days out of the AS break, then bring Harang back in slot #5 following the AS game. If it can't start until today, then they'd need a 5th starter post AS break (Volquez or Maloney I assume)

TRF
07-06-2010, 04:52 PM
He was scatched before the game started, never making an appearance. I'm thinking it could be back dated.

NJReds
07-06-2010, 04:53 PM
If Maloney is going, this would be a good game for him to pitch in. Citi Field is quite pitcher friendly.

The only thing that would suck is it would mean Reyes will be in the lineup batting right-handed.

Is Reyes playing tonight? He's been out for a while with a muscle strain.

BRM
07-06-2010, 04:55 PM
Is Reyes playing tonight? He's been out for a while with a muscle strain.

Yes he is.

Redsfan320
07-06-2010, 05:04 PM
From Fay:


Left-hander Matt Maloney is here.

“I’m planning on pitching,” he said. “They are going to let know closer to game time.”

Aaron Harang is not sure if he can start or not.

“I haven’t talk to them yet,” Harang said.

320

fearofpopvol1
07-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Is Reyes playing tonight? He's been out for a while with a muscle strain.

Jerry said last night the plan was to have Reyes start tonight when it was Wood pitching because he feels comfortable from the right side batting, just not the left side. So if it is indeed Maloney pitching, I think we will see Reyes batting.

reds44
07-06-2010, 05:13 PM
Who goes down if Harang can't start tonight? You could put him on the DL, but Maloney would have to pitch in Philly this weekend then.

TRF
07-06-2010, 05:14 PM
Who goes down if Harang can't start tonight? You could put him on the DL, but Maloney would have to pitch in Philly this weekend then.

That seems appropriate. They drafted him after all.

Hoosier Red
07-06-2010, 05:17 PM
That seems appropriate. They drafted him after all.

Plus given the previous point about 5th starters and their arrivals, it should probably be Halladay's turn in the rotation :)

11larkin11
07-06-2010, 05:28 PM
If Harang CAN go, I'd like to see Maloney stay here and go in the pen for Smith. I like Smith and all, I just think he needs a bit more seasoning, ala Ondrusek earlier this season.

Degenerate39
07-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Who goes down if Harang can't start tonight? You could put him on the DL, but Maloney would have to pitch in Philly this weekend then.

I wouldn't even mind that.

Kc61
07-06-2010, 05:32 PM
If Harang CAN go, I'd like to see Maloney stay here and go in the pen for Smith. I like Smith and all, I just think he needs a bit more seasoning, ala Ondrusek earlier this season.


Not happening.

Maloney has no track record of relieving, except maybe in spring training.

If the Reds were serious about moving him to the pen, he would get some tries in the minor leagues and so far that hasn't happened.

I think the Reds view Maloney's role right now as a AAA and injury fill-in starter.

VR
07-06-2010, 05:32 PM
Not a big surprise, unfortunately. I think he's been dealing w/ it for awhile.