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View Full Version : Harold Reynolds: "THE REDS ARE PLAYING WAY OVER THEIR HEADS!"



Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 08:35 PM
Okay, Harold. Just keep your hands off the interns and we'll worry about the REDS.

FlyerFanatic
07-05-2010, 08:43 PM
i like harold, i kind of agree with him here. nothing wrong with what hes saying. its how the reds have to play to make noise. some guys are going to have to have career years. gomes for instance, he's been playing over his head. cairo filled in while votto was out and put up numbers we didnt expect. just gotta enjoy the ride and hope these guys keep it up.

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 08:45 PM
duplicate post somehow.

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 08:51 PM
The reason the REDS won't slump (only 2 bad holes out of the first 9, the #2 hole and the #8 hole, and both bad holes were followed with an Eagle and a Double-Eagle, just to show how incredibly tough this team is.).....is because they have remarkable depth in Starting Pitching and two reliable Relievers who can close games in the 8th and 9th innings in Rhodes and Cordero. Bailey down, LeCure in. LeCure out, Wood in. Harang down, Wood in. Volquez is waiting in the wings when needed, followed by Maloney and LeCure, and eventually Bailey again, if needed.

And, that's if we don't go out and get Cliff Lee. If we do that, then we've really got incredible depth at starting pitching. That's why we won't have sustained slumps. Plus, we've got great Offensive players, too. We don't rely on 2 or 3 individuals.

Seņor Rojo
07-05-2010, 09:08 PM
Its a moot point regardless. It's not like the Reds are playing in an intensely competitive division. The NL central has essentially become a two team race between the Reds and the Cardinals. The way the Cardinals have been playing, the Reds will still be in it even if they do slump.

Vottomatic
07-05-2010, 11:25 PM
I think the Reds offensive lineup is better than the "anal"-ysts think.

But I still think we need to bolster our bullpen and acquiring a #1 starter for the postseason would be nice. Preferably a lefty since Travis Wood is our only other lefty.

Phillies and Braves don't fare well against lefties.

GIDP
07-05-2010, 11:25 PM
So are a ton of teams.

bshall2105
07-05-2010, 11:27 PM
If the Reds are playing over their heads, the Braves are playing waaaaaaaaay over theirs.

ILoveWilly
07-05-2010, 11:36 PM
The reason the REDS won't slump (only 2 bad holes out of the first 9, the #2 hole and the #8 hole, and both bad holes were followed with an Eagle and a Double-Eagle, just to show how incredibly tough this team is.).....is because they have remarkable depth in Starting Pitching and two reliable Relievers who can close games in the 8th and 9th innings in Rhodes and Cordero. Bailey down, LeCure in. LeCure out, Wood in. Harang down, Wood in. Volquez is waiting in the wings when needed, followed by Maloney and LeCure, and eventually Bailey again, if needed.

And, that's if we don't go out and get Cliff Lee. If we do that, then we've really got incredible depth at starting pitching. That's why we won't have sustained slumps. Plus, we've got great Offensive players, too. We don't rely on 2 or 3 individuals.

Except the stats don't back that up whatsoever.

Sortable Pitching

1 San Diego 82 49 33 3.05 24 1 12 750.1 45 254 269 259 650 .233
2 St. Louis 82 45 37 3.28 18 4 8 738.0 53 269 302 237 577 .250
3 San Francisco 81 41 40 3.54 27 4 6 731.2 48 288 308 327 646 .240
4 Tampa Bay 81 48 33 3.59 23 4 5 728.2 52 291 312 234 594 .242
5 Atlanta 82 48 34 3.67 19 2 2 723.2 46 295 321 272 598 .247
6 NY Mets 82 46 36 3.82 22 1 11 735.1 44 312 328 312 595 .263
7 Oakland 83 41 42 3.85 19 2 9 735.2 49 315 341 270 568 .250
8 Seattle 81 34 47 3.88 18 8 5 718.1 48 310 343 226 511 .252
9 Texas 81 48 33 3.90 27 4 2 727.1 39 315 343 300 587 .245
10 Minnesota 82 44 38 3.91 19 4 5 734.1 45 319 335 173 536 .267
11 Chicago Cubs 82 35 47 3.93 17 1 5 726.0 52 317 371 266 634 .251
12 Colorado 82 44 38 3.94 17 5 9 738.0 45 323 348 275 585 .252
13 NY Yankees 81 50 31 3.99 21 2 5 719.1 46 319 340 264 589 .244
14 Philadelphia 80 42 38 4.02 16 9 7 706.0 43 315 338 204 518 .259
15 Florida 81 38 43 4.05 19 3 5 720.0 48 324 355 264 587 .259
16 LA Dodgers 81 45 36 4.10 20 0 6 726.1 42 331 364 281 641 .252
17 Washington 83 36 47 4.14 24 1 2 732.0 38 337 383 266 496 .273
18 Chicago Sox 80 42 38 4.22 24 2 6 712.0 48 334 350 246 581 .257
19 Toronto 83 41 42 4.26 21 2 7 738.0 47 349 372 286 627 .250
20 Detroit 80 43 37 4.28 20 2 4 701.2 36 334 361 275 516 .259
21 Boston 82 49 33 4.30 23 3 6 741.1 47 354 379 288 581 .253
22 Cincinnati 83 47 36 4.30 24 3 5 745.1 44 356 367 295 546 .266
23 LA Angels 84 46 38 4.33 21 7 6 746.2 48 359 392 302 597 .261
24 Houston 83 32 51 4.53 20 1 2 729.0 44 367 412 289 585 .278
25 Cleveland 81 32 49 4.59 16 6 2 712.0 41 363 403 305 442 .276
26 Kansas City 82 36 46 4.67 23 4 1 725.1 39 376 400 283 525 .266
27 Milwaukee 82 37 45 4.80 15 2 5 729.1 35 389 424 323 629 .275
28 Baltimore 81 25 56 5.03 15 1 1 708.1 37 396 431 271 479 .283
29 Pittsburgh 82 30 52 5.11 20 0 4 715.2 34 406 449 287 496 .282
30 Arizona 82 32 50 5.31 16 2 2 724.0 39 427 468 307 562 .282

Vottomatic
07-05-2010, 11:37 PM
Except the stats don't back that up whatsoever.

Sortable Pitching

1 San Diego 82 49 33 3.05 24 1 12 750.1 45 254 269 259 650 .233
2 St. Louis 82 45 37 3.28 18 4 8 738.0 53 269 302 237 577 .250
3 San Francisco 81 41 40 3.54 27 4 6 731.2 48 288 308 327 646 .240
4 Tampa Bay 81 48 33 3.59 23 4 5 728.2 52 291 312 234 594 .242
5 Atlanta 82 48 34 3.67 19 2 2 723.2 46 295 321 272 598 .247
6 NY Mets 82 46 36 3.82 22 1 11 735.1 44 312 328 312 595 .263
7 Oakland 83 41 42 3.85 19 2 9 735.2 49 315 341 270 568 .250
8 Seattle 81 34 47 3.88 18 8 5 718.1 48 310 343 226 511 .252
9 Texas 81 48 33 3.90 27 4 2 727.1 39 315 343 300 587 .245
10 Minnesota 82 44 38 3.91 19 4 5 734.1 45 319 335 173 536 .267
11 Chicago Cubs 82 35 47 3.93 17 1 5 726.0 52 317 371 266 634 .251
12 Colorado 82 44 38 3.94 17 5 9 738.0 45 323 348 275 585 .252
13 NY Yankees 81 50 31 3.99 21 2 5 719.1 46 319 340 264 589 .244
14 Philadelphia 80 42 38 4.02 16 9 7 706.0 43 315 338 204 518 .259
15 Florida 81 38 43 4.05 19 3 5 720.0 48 324 355 264 587 .259
16 LA Dodgers 81 45 36 4.10 20 0 6 726.1 42 331 364 281 641 .252
17 Washington 83 36 47 4.14 24 1 2 732.0 38 337 383 266 496 .273
18 Chicago Sox 80 42 38 4.22 24 2 6 712.0 48 334 350 246 581 .257
19 Toronto 83 41 42 4.26 21 2 7 738.0 47 349 372 286 627 .250
20 Detroit 80 43 37 4.28 20 2 4 701.2 36 334 361 275 516 .259
21 Boston 82 49 33 4.30 23 3 6 741.1 47 354 379 288 581 .253
22 Cincinnati 83 47 36 4.30 24 3 5 745.1 44 356 367 295 546 .266
23 LA Angels 84 46 38 4.33 21 7 6 746.2 48 359 392 302 597 .261
24 Houston 83 32 51 4.53 20 1 2 729.0 44 367 412 289 585 .278
25 Cleveland 81 32 49 4.59 16 6 2 712.0 41 363 403 305 442 .276
26 Kansas City 82 36 46 4.67 23 4 1 725.1 39 376 400 283 525 .266
27 Milwaukee 82 37 45 4.80 15 2 5 729.1 35 389 424 323 629 .275
28 Baltimore 81 25 56 5.03 15 1 1 708.1 37 396 431 271 479 .283
29 Pittsburgh 82 30 52 5.11 20 0 4 715.2 34 406 449 287 496 .282
30 Arizona 82 32 50 5.31 16 2 2 724.0 39 427 468 307 562 .282

Please don't bring facts into any argument with Kingspoint. It just confuses him. :D

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 11:40 PM
What does TEAM ERA have to do with Starting Pitching Depth and why we won't slump because of it?

If you're going to use ERA (which isn't fair because the REDS are 3rd worst in the NL in allowing inherited runners to score), then at least use the ERA of the Starters where the REDS are 8th out of 16 teams in the National League.

ILoveWilly
07-05-2010, 11:45 PM
Depth tends to mean you have something worthy of depth in the first place. You usually don't hear the term depth applied to a team that isn't very good in that area. So I really don't see how you are 'deep' if you're team is in the bottom third of the league in that area.

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 11:48 PM
Depth tends to mean you have something worthy of depth in the first place. You usually don't hear the term depth applied to a team that isn't very good in that area. So I really don't see how you are 'deep' if you're team is in the bottom third of the league in that area.

Again, you make stuff up.

Show me where the REDS' starters are in the bottom third of the National League in terms of their pitching.

Mutaman
07-05-2010, 11:49 PM
Okay, Harold. Just keep your hands off the interns and we'll worry about the REDS.

Actually Reynolds sued ESPN for wrongful termination and got a 7 figure settlement. And he landed on his feet with jobs for MLB and the Mets. The charges of sexual harassment were just rumours.

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 11:50 PM
I'll help you out, ILoveWilly.

Here's the stats for "starters" only for the National League teams.

Pick and choose what stats you want to use to make your point.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-starter-pitching.shtml

Kingspoint
07-05-2010, 11:51 PM
Actually Reynolds sued ESPN for wrongful termination and got a 7 figure settlement. And he landed on his feet with jobs for MLB and the Mets. The charges of sexual harassment were just rumours.

I intentionally left that out. It would have ruined the joke. It didn't stop 9 million media outlets from saying horrible things about him. I figured he was innocent all along. He's really the nicest guy in the world.

ILoveWilly
07-05-2010, 11:57 PM
OK, so 16th in the majors in *starting* pitching, basically average. I still don't really consider that good, but I'm hopeful some of the guys can step up in the second half.

I mean if you're saying we have guys that can come in and not give up Eric Milton-esque numbers and put in an "average" performance, I will agree to that. I don't really consider that depth though, because it seems like EVERYONE has been just about average. I'm hoping though Leake will hold up and his recent slump was just due to inevitability and not fatigue, Arroyo goes into his super Arroyo second half mode where he shuts everyone down, and Cueto keeps up his recent improvement along with Harang.

I'm not saying we CAN'T be a good staff, just this first half they've underachieved for sure.

Kingspoint
07-06-2010, 12:03 AM
OK, so 16th in the majors in *starting* pitching, basically average. I still don't really consider that good, but I'm hopeful some of the guys can step up in the second half.

I mean if you're saying we have guys that can come in and not give up Eric Milton-esque numbers and put in an "average" performance, I will agree to that. I don't really consider that depth though, because it seems like EVERYONE has been just about average. I'm hoping though Leake will hold up and his recent slump was just due to inevitability and not fatigue, Arroyo goes into his super Arroyo second half mode where he shuts everyone down, and Cueto keeps up his recent improvement along with Harang.

I'm not saying we CAN'T be a good staff, just this first half they've underachieved for sure.

You can't compare one league to another when it comes to starting pitching. Stick with the facts. Stick with the National League. (BTW, 16th in all of baseball would make put them deadcenter, not bottom third).

Do you enjoy watching what's happening? The improvement this year of Cueto (for the 2nd year in a row his WHIP and ERA have gone down). Bailey was pitching as well as Cueto last year before Bailey got injured. These pitchers need their appearances to improve from year to year when they're young and inexperienced.

Arroyo's been nothing but, great over the last year. Harang is the only pitcher who's been poor, and he's showing some improvement lately.

LeCure has done a great job for a Rookie, as has Wood. Maloney got his chance and didn't do as well. That's OK. He may get another and may not do well again, but Volquez will do well when he gets his chance at the end of the month.

ILoveWilly
07-06-2010, 12:13 AM
You can't compare one league to another when it comes to starting pitching. Stick with the facts. Stick with the National League. (BTW, 16th in all of baseball would make put them deadcenter, not bottom third).

Do you enjoy watching what's happening? The improvement this year of Cueto (for the 2nd year in a row his WHIP and ERA have gone down). Bailey was pitching as well as Cueto last year before Bailey got injured. These pitchers need their appearances to improve from year to year when they're young and inexperienced.

Arroyo's been nothing but, great over the last year. Harang is the only pitcher who's been poor, and he's showing some improvement lately.

LeCure has done a great job for a Rookie, as has Wood. Maloney got his chance and didn't do as well. That's OK. He may get another and may not do well again, but Volquez will do well when he gets his chance at the end of the month.

I just don't consider average a ton of depth. You make it seem like we're an unbeatable force, but team ERA is pretty darn bad and needs improvement in the second half. I'm hoping we can get 5 good pitchers out of the ones we have and the right ones are IN the rotation, no matter who it is.

If we can get to the top 10 or so in team ERA over the second half, we will have a very, very good chance of making the playoffs, but we need to improve the pen through trade and we need good managerial decisions to start the right guys, and work through the constraints of Leake's IP, Volquez's recovery, and eventually Bailey's injury.

Vottomatic
07-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Our starting pitching is improved, but not at the level of the other league leading teams, IMHO. St. Louis, San Diego, and even San Fran (not a leading team) have better starting pitching. Mets have some good starting pitching. So does Atlanta.

Our bullpen needs bolstering.

sabometrics
07-06-2010, 12:28 AM
We have Leake (NL RoY candidate), Arroyo & Harang (solid veterans), Cueto (up-and-coming #2 possibly #3 arm), Volquez (former All-Star and absolute TOR arm), three really promising young arms (Chapman, Wood, Bailey), and two guys that are replacement level at least and possibly a little better than that (LeCure & Maloney).

That's 10 names. That's depth, regardless of whether we've had that ace at the top of the rotation or whatever. Every time we've had any need to dip into the minors for a start or two we have yet to be really disappointed like in past years, and we haven't even seen one Edinson Volquez, Aroldis Chapman, or Matt Maloney yet. Having a deep stable of replacement level starters or better is one of the biggest things that helps contenders stand out over the stretch of such a long season.

Kingspoint
07-06-2010, 12:42 AM
Our starting pitching is improved, but not at the level of the other league leading teams, IMHO. St. Louis, San Diego, and even San Fran (not a leading team) have better starting pitching.


Now, those are facts.

Kingspoint
07-06-2010, 12:43 AM
We have Leake (NL RoY candidate), Arroyo & Harang (solid veterans), Cueto (up-and-coming #2 possibly #3 arm), Volquez (former All-Star and absolute TOR arm), three really promising young arms (Chapman, Wood, Bailey), and two guys that are replacement level at least and possibly a little better than that (LeCure & Maloney).

That's 10 names. That's depth, regardless of whether we've had that ace at the top of the rotation or whatever. Every time we've had any need to dip into the minors for a start or two we have yet to be really disappointed like in past years, and we haven't even seen one Edinson Volquez, Aroldis Chapman, or Matt Maloney yet. Having a deep stable of replacement level starters or better is one of the biggest things that helps contenders stand out over the stretch of such a long season.

But, this is how I choose to look at it.

Nice post.

:thumbup:

ILoveWilly
07-06-2010, 12:57 AM
We have Leake (NL RoY candidate), Arroyo & Harang (solid veterans), Cueto (up-and-coming #2 possibly #3 arm), Volquez (former All-Star and absolute TOR arm), three really promising young arms (Chapman, Wood, Bailey), and two guys that are replacement level at least and possibly a little better than that (LeCure & Maloney).

That's 10 names. That's depth, regardless of whether we've had that ace at the top of the rotation or whatever. Every time we've had any need to dip into the minors for a start or two we have yet to be really disappointed like in past years, and we haven't even seen one Edinson Volquez, Aroldis Chapman, or Matt Maloney yet. Having a deep stable of replacement level starters or better is one of the biggest things that helps contenders stand out over the stretch of such a long season.

A lot of those guys have major problems and others simply aren't ready and we have no idea how they will do.

- Chapman is not ready, he shouldn't be called up until 40 man time, he's very wild in Triple A.

- Volquez is coming off Tommy John surgery and equally as wild - and has been in the past even before his injury. Throwing the recovery into the mix makes it really confusing how he will do.

- Bailey has been an enigma his entire career here, this is no different with this injury and what he'll do, if he even recovers.

- Harang has been anything but solid at times, has improved, but can get really, really rocked and shown he can be rocked in any given game.

- Leake, we have no idea what he can do in the second half, this is his first year of ANY kind of professional baseball, and we have to manage his stamina too to worry about

Seriously, our staff for the second looks like this to me:

1) Arroyo. Mr Second Half, I'm expecting to stand on his head again this year like he has in the past and turn into a second half Cy Young guy. It's like the more you work his arm, the better he gets

2) Cueto, who's slumped before, now back on track it looks like, although we'll have to deal with those wild outings still.

The rest is a whole lot of: ???????????????????

If every positive outcome happens, we'll be really awesome. Heck, if just half of the rest of the pitchers show up and are USED correctly, by being put in the rotation for the lesser pitchers, we'll be really awesome. But they all have major question marks and flaws that can't be ignored. I hope we get some luck and all these guys put it together like most of the offense has this first half, and hope the offense doesn't tail off.

markymark69
07-06-2010, 09:55 AM
My response to that is - so. That still shouldn't take away from the fact that they are in first place and doing what they need to do. Even if what he is saying is true - the Reds are not the first team to do this and won't be the last.

Vottomatic
07-06-2010, 11:17 AM
A lot of those guys have major problems and others simply aren't ready and we have no idea how they will do.

- Chapman is not ready, he shouldn't be called up until 40 man time, he's very wild in Triple A.

- Volquez is coming off Tommy John surgery and equally as wild - and has been in the past even before his injury. Throwing the recovery into the mix makes it really confusing how he will do.

- Bailey has been an enigma his entire career here, this is no different with this injury and what he'll do, if he even recovers.

- Harang has been anything but solid at times, has improved, but can get really, really rocked and shown he can be rocked in any given game.

- Leake, we have no idea what he can do in the second half, this is his first year of ANY kind of professional baseball, and we have to manage his stamina too to worry about

Seriously, our staff for the second looks like this to me:

1) Arroyo. Mr Second Half, I'm expecting to stand on his head again this year like he has in the past and turn into a second half Cy Young guy. It's like the more you work his arm, the better he gets

2) Cueto, who's slumped before, now back on track it looks like, although we'll have to deal with those wild outings still.

The rest is a whole lot of: ???????????????????

If every positive outcome happens, we'll be really awesome. Heck, if just half of the rest of the pitchers show up and are USED correctly, by being put in the rotation for the lesser pitchers, we'll be really awesome. But they all have major question marks and flaws that can't be ignored. I hope we get some luck and all these guys put it together like most of the offense has this first half, and hope the offense doesn't tail off.

Agree about Chapman. Too wild and inconsistent. Won't be up until September. Future could be bright though down the road.

Agree about Bailey. If healthy, I'd be ready to package him in a trade. Has never impressed me. Had a good stretch to end last season and that's about it.

Volquez. Could go either way. Still waiting to see. Many guys come back from TJ surgery better and stronger. But V was always a corner picker and tended to throw alot of pitches, which lead to barely making it through 5 innings.

Harang seems better but gives up the long ball often. Popular guy in trade ideas on this message board. :D And there's obviously a reason for that.

Leake. Gotta watch his innings. I'm excited about his future but he's never thrown this many innings before in a season. Could be dangerous on his arm or he could get tired.

Wood. Love that he's a lefty. I think his future is bright but he's a rookie.

Arroyo. Up and down, but mostly up this season. Hopefully he continues to be the second half pitcher he's been in most years.

Cueto. Had a mild early June swoon, but seems to have righted the ship other than last outing where he played Houdini inning after inning escaping jams.

The rest of our prospects are unproven or not considered TOR guys.

Love the depth. But we lack a true #1 starter.

Red in Atl
07-06-2010, 11:48 AM
If the Reds are playing over their heads, the Braves are playing waaaaaaaaay over theirs.

Exactly...and it all started with the "lost" 2-game series in Atlanta. I keep telling my neighbor, who has season tickets, that the Braves owe us everything for making that team believe in itself.

Have to agree with a lot said here about our pitching. It's really another year or so off before we know if any of these guys are going to stick around for the long haul. But what a great "problem" to have.

I am now convinced that if we want to make the playoffs and go deep in the post season, which I think you have to do if you are in the Reds position, is get Cliff Lee. Though we can only give up Alonzo and 1-2 other "good" prospects. Anymore than that and we risk that great future. I'm just hoping Walt can do some more magic as he's shown to be able to do in the past.

SidneySlicker
07-06-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm not gonna lie I do have rose colored glasses on. St. Louis has holes in their lineup especially with freese and ludwig out of the lineup right now. And while Carpenter, Waino, and Garcia are a very formidable, hawksworth, and suppan are mediocre at best. I think there are areas where the reds can improve and I expect that the Cardinals will in the second half as well. I think we are in this and am just looking to enjoy the ride.

RedLegsToday
07-06-2010, 02:14 PM
I'm not gonna lie I do have rose colored glasses on. St. Louis has holes in their lineup especially with freese and ludwig out of the lineup right now. And while Carpenter, Waino, and Garcia are a very formidable, hawksworth, and suppan are mediocre at best. I think there are areas where the reds can improve and I expect that the Cardinals will in the second half as well. I think we are in this and am just looking to enjoy the ride.

Of the Reds 72 games after the All-star break, 44 are against the Nationals, Cubs, Brewers, Astros, Pirates and Diamondbacks. Dang right we're in this until the end!

krm1580
07-06-2010, 03:08 PM
I think the Reds are currently configured to do well in the regular season but will struggle in the playoffs when the pitching rotations are dropped down to 3 or 4 guys.

I am not sure how to statistically quantify it since our rotation has bounced around so much but just from the eyeball test, when you match the Reds top 2 starters up against the top 2 starters on playoff teams I think the Reds come up short. When you start getting to 3-5 though I believe the Reds have an advantage especially as you get to #5.

So in the regular season out #4 and #5, whoever you think they are going to mop up. When the playoffs come around though and #4 & #5 are eliminated I think they are at a disadvantage.

FlyerFanatic
07-06-2010, 05:48 PM
I think the Reds are currently configured to do well in the regular season but will struggle in the playoffs when the pitching rotations are dropped down to 3 or 4 guys.

I am not sure how to statistically quantify it since our rotation has bounced around so much but just from the eyeball test, when you match the Reds top 2 starters up against the top 2 starters on playoff teams I think the Reds come up short. When you start getting to 3-5 though I believe the Reds have an advantage especially as you get to #5.

So in the regular season out #4 and #5, whoever you think they are going to mop up. When the playoffs come around though and #4 & #5 are eliminated I think they are at a disadvantage.

agreed. thats why if we land lee, we're in business. #1 Lee #2 cueto...maybe volquez depending how hes throwing. thats gonna be a solid 1-2 punch.

scott91575
07-06-2010, 05:57 PM
I'll help you out, ILoveWilly.

Here's the stats for "starters" only for the National League teams.

Pick and choose what stats you want to use to make your point.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-starter-pitching.shtml

One problem with those stats....those runs/game are for all pitchers. I wanted to check relief numbers, and the runs/game does not change. The reason it puts the Reds middle of the road is it is not ERA, it's runs/game. That really helps the Reds since they commit the fewest errors.

Plus if the starters gave up about 4.4 runs per game in 82 games it would mean they gave up every single run this year (in other words, that is overall pitching, and runs/game not ERA).

Kingspoint
07-06-2010, 06:13 PM
One problem with those stats....those runs/game are for all pitchers. I wanted to check relief numbers, and the runs/game does not change. The reason it puts the Reds middle of the road is it is not ERA, it's runs/game. That really helps the Reds since they commit the fewest errors.

Plus if the starters gave up about 4.4 runs per game in 82 games it would mean they gave up every single run this year (in other words, that is overall pitching, and runs/game not ERA).

Relievers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-reliever-pitching.shtml

scott91575
07-06-2010, 06:16 PM
Relievers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-reliever-pitching.shtml

Umm, yeah. I don't think you get it. In both of those charts the R/G is exactly the same. It is overall pitching in that column. The other columns are relief only, but not that one. Hence pretty useless (there is no ERA column either, which would be the most useful).

Kingspoint
07-06-2010, 06:19 PM
I didn't realize that.

I thought they had separated it out. That's inconsistent for baseball-reference.

RedsFanInBama
07-11-2010, 03:33 PM
I think it's pretty clear that Harold was spot-on.

Phillips was playing over his head for sure, now he's starting to come back down.
Cabrera? Not even worth addressing.
Votto will continue to hit but I doubt the power will keep up in the second half.
Rolen has played well above what was expected. He will slow down. Age + long season.
Gomes has been spiraling downward for about a month.
Bruce has been better in the first half than he was for the past year and a half. I could see him continuing to improve.
Stubbs should improve, but he's going to keep striking out at a high rate.
Catching IMO has been pretty good. I'm not seeing this group really giving us a lot more than they have so far.

The only real hope for the second half as I see it is for Volquez to give us a huge shot in the arm and pitch like a true ace and for Cueto to pitch to his capability. I like the bullpen for the most part, Cordero obviously being the huge, immovable exception.

Kingspoint
07-11-2010, 06:35 PM
I think it's pretty clear that Harold was talking out of his behind.

RedsFanInBama
07-11-2010, 07:22 PM
Nah, I think he was right.

RiverRat13
07-11-2010, 08:22 PM
162 game season. Lots of ebbing and flowing.

bgwilly31
07-11-2010, 09:06 PM
People playing over their heads is what spells World series for most teams in the past.

Mutaman
07-11-2010, 09:10 PM
"Don't get too up when you win, don't get too down when you lose".

Joe Torre

Hey Meat
07-11-2010, 09:11 PM
You guys that listen to a mediocre player/idiot/known groper who is fortunate to still have a job anywhere amaze me. That is the one gripe I have with MLB network. Why do they keep this guy around? He is the one who is playing over his head.

RedsFanInBama
07-11-2010, 09:15 PM
You guys that listen to a mediocre player/idiot/known groper who is fortunate to still have a job anywhere amaze me. That is the one gripe I have with MLB network. Why do they keep this guy around? He is the one who is playing over his head.

And yet we all post and read opinions here and apparently find value in that.

Hey Meat
07-11-2010, 09:22 PM
And yet we all post and read opinions here and apparently find value in that.
That is fine, but some of us find no value in what Harold Reynolds says.