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Vottomatic
07-06-2010, 11:48 AM
From Benihana off of ORG:

We've all heard the rumors. We know who's available, and we have an idea of what those teams are looking for. So the question is now- you are the GM. What do you do?

I would first call Jack Z, and make the following offer:

Seattle gets: Alonso, Heisey, Boxberger
Cincinnati gets: Cliff Lee and Brandon League

I would be willing to slightly increase the offer, perhaps to even Alonso and Mesoraco (no Boxberger or Heisey), but not go much beyond that. If that didn't get it done, I'd turn to Arizona.

Arizona gets: Bailey, Wood, Alonso, and Cozart
Cincinnati gets: Dan Haren and Stephen Drew

Imagine going into the postseason with Haren headlining the rotation, while going into the next three years with a rotation of:

1. Haren
2. Cueto
3. Leake
4. Volquez
5. Chapman

and a lineup of

2B Phillips
SS Drew
1B Votto
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
LF Gomes/Francisco
CF Stubbs
C Hanigan/Mesoraco

Wow. I'd consider adding Heisey to that deal if it got it done, especially if the D'backs add Heilman. Thoughts?


What do you do if you were the Reds GM?

I'm still not crazy about trading Travis Wood.

mivers176
07-06-2010, 11:57 AM
I definitely want to get a real Ace - Lee, Haren, Oswalt or Greinke are what is being reported that is available.

As for Lee from the M's, all the analysts are saying Seattle has to get a prime Catching prospect in return, if that is the case, forget about getting Lee. Plus the Reds arent going to give him the $16-18 mil a year deal after this season so I think he would only be a rental, therefore not too excited about that one.

The Arizona trade would be great - to get a solid #1 (he is having a rough year so far though but on a bad team) and a good young SS that is only going to get better would be in our interest for sure. I have no problem giving up 3 top level prospects and 1-2 lower tiered ones to get 2 instant starters (well, i guess one would be a replacement of Cabrera in the future).

I still think for this year and the near future, the best thing would be to get Oswalt. Houston is even willing to eat some of his salary. He would replace Harang after 2010 as far as salary goes, we'd be getting Oswalt for the same amount of $. Also, I think we would only have to give up 2 guys to get him - 2 out of these: Homer, Wood, Leake, Heisey, Stubbs, Alonso.

They need a Berkman replacement, so why not start with Alonso and Homer offer?

GIDP
07-06-2010, 12:00 PM
If i'm giving up 3 top guys for Lee, I'd happily give up 6 for Greinke.

Vottomatic
07-06-2010, 12:15 PM
Marlins claim Hanley Ramirez and Josh Johnson aren't available.

I call the Marlins and blow them away with an offer for Josh Johnson.

Ohioballplayer
07-06-2010, 12:18 PM
I would say look at Greinke and Dejesus, forget about Lee the rental, and the big contract.

The Voice of IH
07-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Just to put it out there.... The 700 wlw guy (I forget which one) said that he talked to some Reds sources and said that not only do they want Lee, but they believe that they could keep him for a couple extra years. that would be tight huh?

SidneySlicker
07-06-2010, 12:32 PM
If i'm giving up 3 top guys for Lee, I'd happily give up 6 for Greinke.

+1,000,000

If I'm giving up that much young talent, I'd much rather have a younger #1 and someone whom I really think we'd have a chance to resign.

ian_madden
07-06-2010, 01:02 PM
Marlins claim Hanley Ramirez and Josh Johnson aren't available.

I call the Marlins and blow them away with an offer for Josh Johnson.

Do you trade the farm? I like Johnson, alot. But is he worth 3, 4 or even 5 top prospects? Do you give up leake, wood, alonso, francisco?

GIDP
07-06-2010, 01:08 PM
Do you trade the farm? I like Johnson, alot. But is he worth 3, 4 or even 5 top prospects? Do you give up leake, wood, alonso, francisco?

Josh Johnson is the best pitcher in baseball this year.

RedsFanInBama
07-06-2010, 01:13 PM
So do you give up Leake, Wood, Alsonso and Francisco for him?

GIDP
07-06-2010, 01:14 PM
So do you give up Leake, Wood, Alsonso and Francisco for him?

Yes

RedsFanInBama
07-06-2010, 01:15 PM
How long would the Reds get to keep him? If we're going to be a great team, we need someone like Johnson. On the other hand, we also need homegrown players to pan out.

GIDP
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
through the 2013 season.

His Salary.
11: $7.75M, 12: $13.75M, 13: $13.75M

RedsFanInBama
07-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Well yeah, I'd make that deal too. The old bird in the hand.

Of course with that much time left on his contract I find it unlikely they are going to deal him. And if they do, it's going to take a ton.

JohnCocktoasten
07-06-2010, 01:25 PM
As the Guinness beer commercial states, fortune favors the bold.

Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier and Travis Wood for Cliff Lee. I would try to keep Wood and Mesoraco, but if it came down to the trading deadline then I would give up Wood.

brm7675
07-06-2010, 02:09 PM
I sit with what I have. If Volquez can give me anything is all plus. You move Homer and Harang to the bullpen for the stretch until Leake hit's his innings and them bump in Edinison. You leave Chapman in AAA and you go with what got you here. If and it's a BIG IF, you can add a Lee for around Yonder and maybe another AA or AAA player then fine, but don't give away any young pitching for a 3 month rental.

UPRedsFan
07-06-2010, 02:09 PM
As the GM, I keep Wood and Leake. I seem them having longevity and consistency. We'd regret that trade next year when Lee bolts for more money.

I would deal Homer though. I'd try Homer, Mesoraco and Fransisco for Lee.

JohnCocktoasten
07-06-2010, 02:49 PM
As the GM, I keep Wood and Leake. I seem them having longevity and consistency. We'd regret that trade next year when Lee bolts for more money.

I would deal Homer though. I'd try Homer, Mesoraco and Fransisco for Lee.

If you replace Francisco with Alonso, they'd do that in a heart beat.

brm7675
07-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Sorry but I don't believe we have what they want or we don't want to give up what they want...I see Lee in the Twin Cities...

Vottomatic
07-06-2010, 09:46 PM
Tonight just continues to prove we will need an ace #1 starting pitcher to compete with the best teams in the NL postseason.

Santana shuts us down.

webbbj
07-07-2010, 03:26 AM
haren is not an ace. if ur gonna make a trade for a number 1 guy then do it right and get cliff lee.

Lockdwn11
07-07-2010, 12:11 PM
So do you give up Leake, Wood, Alsonso and Francisco for him?

In a New York Minute!

bigred97
07-07-2010, 01:07 PM
What do you guys think about a trade for Roy Oswalt? He makes a lot of money so we would have to give up that much.

Orodle
07-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Go get Cliff Lee. I like Oswalt but I would imagine the Astros to be reluctant in trading him within the division.

What I would give for Lee:

1B-Alonso
&
SP-Wood
&
Moresco

then open the checkbook and resign Cliff Lee, not bringing back Harang for sure.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 01:22 PM
So what, how would Lee had helped? our pitching staff gave up 3 freakin runs in the game total. I will take that every day from our pitching staff and we will win a ton of games.


Tonight just continues to prove we will need an ace #1 starting pitcher to compete with the best teams in the NL postseason.

Santana shuts us down.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 01:23 PM
Yes
NO
YES

you don't trade young lefty pitching for a rental..



Go get Cliff Lee. I like Oswalt but I would imagine the Astros to be reluctant in trading him within the division.

What I would give for Lee:

1B-Alonso
&
SP-Wood
&
Moresco

then open the checkbook and resign Cliff Lee, not bringing back Harang for sure.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 01:25 PM
The Reds don't have the monies to sign Lee, he is going to want 5-6 years at 18-20 million per season.



then open the checkbook and resign Cliff Lee, not bringing back Harang for sure.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 01:27 PM
Mesoraco might be the best catching prospect in baseball after this season. You seriously going to trade something that rare for 12 starts?

Id be fine with Alonso and Francisco but I'm not down for adding yet ANOTHER guy on the level of our top guys. Thats insanity.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 02:12 PM
According to whom?


Mesoraco might be the best catching prospect in baseball after this season. You seriously going to trade something that rare for 12 starts?

.

webbbj
07-07-2010, 02:19 PM
Mesoraco might be the best catching prospect in baseball after this season. You seriously going to trade something that rare for 12 starts?

Id be fine with Alonso and Francisco but I'm not down for adding yet ANOTHER guy on the level of our top guys. Thats insanity.

you mean 18-20 starts, right? unless you think lee wont make the playoff roster.

UPRedsFan
07-07-2010, 02:34 PM
If I'm calling the shots, I do not trade Wood or Leake in any deal for Lee.

We'd be givng up 2/5's of the starting rotation for the next 5 years in exchange for 2 months of Lee. They'd have to resign Harang and Arroyo for 2011 because we won't be able to resign Lee.

Alonso or Fransisco or Frazier or Heisey
Maloney
Maybe some of the young relievers - Ondrusek maybe?

Those are the chips to pick from. None of them are being counted on for 2011. But Wood and Leake should be kept unless it's a trade and sign deal for Lee.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 02:39 PM
According to whom?

According to how limited catching prospects are an the fact that Mesoraco has been tearing it up all year in A+ and AA, and is playing to the way scouts scouted him when he was drafted. He is having a monster year that only 1 other catcher in the minors can compare to, Jesus Montero, and Montero isnt close to being the same defensive catcher.

Mes is finally hitting for the power everyone thought he had, hes got good K/BB rates, and hes throwing out 49% of baserunners which is outstanding.

He's turning into the reds best prospect, if he keeps it up.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 02:40 PM
you mean 18-20 starts, right? unless you think lee wont make the playoff roster.

Half a season or what ever. Point stands though. Its a ton to give up 3 top tier guys with 1 of them being a monster riser in your system.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 02:55 PM
The M's want blue chip, how is our 16th rank prospect in our own system "Blue Chip"?


According to how limited catching prospects are an the fact that Mesoraco has been tearing it up all year in A+ and AA, and is playing to the way scouts scouted him when he was drafted. He is having a monster year that only 1 other catcher in the minors can compare to, Jesus Montero, and Montero isnt close to being the same defensive catcher.

Mes is finally hitting for the power everyone thought he had, hes got good K/BB rates, and hes throwing out 49% of baserunners which is outstanding.

He's turning into the reds best prospect, if he keeps it up.

Reds42MLB
07-07-2010, 03:01 PM
You guys wanting to get a SP need to be better armchair GM's. RP is what we need to target if anything not SP. Get off the Lee pipe dream train please. It's a dumb rental IMO anyways. If I'm the GM and I can't get a solid RP then I stay put and don't screw with what has been working thus far in the 1st half.

Especially considering we have Volquez and Homer coming back to do with what we want. Not to mention Chapman could possibly be called up (I don't see it happening) but still an option.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 03:05 PM
The M's want blue chip, how is our 16th rank prospect in our own system "Blue Chip"?

Rankings done prior to the season

brm7675
07-07-2010, 03:13 PM
I don't see how he has that big of a leap to be considered a Blue Chip, but then again I view BC's as being your top 2-3 prospects...


Rankings done prior to the season

brm7675
07-07-2010, 03:15 PM
I will go one step further, I don't see a HUGE need at RP right now. If you look at the bullpen overall, they have calmed down and done a good job. Yes NM and Co-Co give you a heart attack everything they go out, but they are not going anywhere. The rest of the guys have done pretty well, especially the big kid since his recall has done great and I think as Bray gets into the flow he will be okay. Again, i don't want to see us give away good young CHEAP talent for a rental or bullpen help.


You guys wanting to get a SP need to be better armchair GM's. RP is what we need to target if anything not SP. Get off the Lee pipe dream train please. It's a dumb rental IMO anyways. If I'm the GM and I can't get a solid RP then I stay put and don't screw with what has been working thus far in the 1st half.

Especially considering we have Volquez and Homer coming back to do with what we want. Not to mention Chapman could possibly be called up (I don't see it happening) but still an option.

Reds42MLB
07-07-2010, 03:17 PM
I will go one step further, I don't see a HUGE need at RP right now. If you look at the bullpen overall, they have calmed down and done a good job. Yes NM and Co-Co give you a heart attack everything they go out, but they are not going anywhere. The rest of the guys have done pretty well, especially the big kid since his recall has done great and I think as Bray gets into the flow he will be okay. Again, i don't want to see us give away good young CHEAP talent for a rental or bullpen help.

But you do agree if a move was going to be made RP would probably be #1 on the list. If anything just for insurance in case Coco implodes and Rhodes performance declines over the 2nd half. A little insurance in the bullpen is never a bad thing, but I agree the other guys have been improving lately which makes me feel a lot better about our situation headed into the 2nd half.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 03:22 PM
I don't see how he has that big of a leap to be considered a Blue Chip, but then again I view BC's as being your top 2-3 prospects...

Prospects advance to the majors, get replaced by more prospects. If Mesoraco continues at his pace for the whole season, he will be a top 50 MILB prospect most def.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 03:27 PM
to me the opportunities (Ian Snell for example) were there for the Reds to add to their bullpen at no lost of talent. I don't believe in giving up talent for RP.


But you do agree if a move was going to be made RP would probably be #1 on the list. If anything just for insurance in case Coco implodes and Rhodes performance declines over the 2nd half. A little insurance in the bullpen is never a bad thing, but I agree the other guys have been improving lately which makes me feel a lot better about our situation headed into the 2nd half.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 03:28 PM
Sure anything is possible and in a year or two or three he might reach that level, the M's want ML ready talent either now or next season for Lee.


Prospects advance to the majors, get replaced by more prospects. If Mesoraco continues at his pace for the whole season, he will be a top 50 MILB prospect most def.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Sure anything is possible and in a year or two or three he might reach that level, the M's want ML ready talent either now or next season for Lee.

No he could reach that level this year.

But like I said I'm not down for including 2 top guys and Mes for 15-20 starts depending on the playoffs. Crazy.

brm7675
07-07-2010, 04:06 PM
I would be shocked if he does, but if a deal with him and Yonder could pull Lee I would do it in a second.


No he could reach that level this year.

But like I said I'm not down for including 2 top guys and Mes for 15-20 starts depending on the playoffs. Crazy.

GIDP
07-07-2010, 04:11 PM
I think you are undervaluing how much good catching prospects are worth.

Lockdwn11
07-07-2010, 04:15 PM
You guys wanting to get a SP need to be better armchair GM's. RP is what we need to target if anything not SP. Get off the Lee pipe dream train please. It's a dumb rental IMO anyways. If I'm the GM and I can't get a solid RP then I stay put and don't screw with what has been working thus far in the 1st half.

Especially considering we have Volquez and Homer coming back to do with what we want. Not to mention Chapman could possibly be called up (I don't see it happening) but still an option.

What make you think Homer will be any better than he has in the past outside of pitching to the Pirates. Volquez is coming off a injury and is a unknown at this point.

Vottomatic
07-08-2010, 09:17 AM
If I were GM:

1. I'd trade for Cliff Lee and get a 48 hour window to sign him from mlb and make every effort to do so. I make the trade conditional on him signing with us. I'd trade any prospects except for Wood and Heisey. But I wouldn't over do it.

2. In the off season, I'd trade a healthier Homer Bailey for prospects.

3. In the off season, I re-sign Arroyo to a lesser contract for 3 or 4 years, like they did with Rolen. He may or may not want to do this. I'm thinking $8 to $10M per season. Put that with Lee's $20M per season and we have $30M wrapped up in payroll for starting pitching. Cueto, Leake, Wood, and Volquez are all still reasonable.

4. Try and trade Cordero but let him walk after next season. He might actually retire at that point.

5. Start negotiating a contract with Votto similar to Evan Longoria's.

6. Talk to Phillips about extending his contract with an eye on a discount for the club that traded and took a chance on him.

7. Bring Danny Dorn up in September and try him out in as a lefthanded Pinch Hitter to possibly replace Laynce Nix next season.

8. Rotate Stubbs and Heisey in a platoon situation in CF the rest of the season. To see what Heisey has got.

9. Sign JJ Putz in the offseason to bolster the bullpen.

I realize my team salary is probably in the $80M to $90M, but I'm counting on increased attendance as the team competes yearly in the coming season.

brm7675
07-08-2010, 10:36 AM
Lee is not going to sign any contract extension, his agent is Scott Boras, he is going to go onto the open market, bank on it.

webbbj
07-08-2010, 11:07 AM
read this whole thread and i still think that the reds cant pass up on a golden opportunity like this. we probably have the best 2-5 rotation besides SD and SF but our offense outweighs that. the NL is soo weak that the reds gotta do this.