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GOYA
07-08-2010, 07:22 PM
Mudhens @ Bats


Matthews CF .346
Cozart SS .255
Alonso 1B .262
Frazier LF .233
Francisco 3B .277
Valaika 2B .297
Balentien RF .223
Griffin DH .321
Castillo C .261

Delgado P 2.85

GOYA
07-08-2010, 07:26 PM
Frazier and Cisco with back to back singles to start the 2nd

On the corners with no outs

0-0 in the 2nd

GOYA
07-08-2010, 07:33 PM
Valaika Ks
Wlad taps to the mound and the catcher leaves the plate.
Frazier scores
Wlad out at 1st

1-0 Bats

Griffin flies out

GOYA
07-08-2010, 07:52 PM
4 runs so far for the Hens in the 3rd

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Lynchburg is down 6-2 after 2. Curtis Partch has been having a very rough go of it lately.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:04 PM
Dayton and Carolina about to get underway. Justin Walker on the mound for the Dragons and Travis Webb for the Mudcats.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:33 PM
Henry Rodriguez hit his 9th HR (2 run) and Mark Fleury hit his 7th (solo) to give Dayton a 3-0 lead.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:36 PM
Devin Mesoraco has a triple and scored to give Carolina a 1-0 lead.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:38 PM
Zack Cozart just singled in a run, Bats trailing 4-2. Runners on 1st and 2nd for Alonso.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:41 PM
Alonso flew out to the warning track in the alley. Frazier singled in Matthews. Bats trail 4-3.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:46 PM
Louisville tied it up on a Francisco single. 4-4, with 2 on.

Carolina down 2-1 in the 2nd.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Lynchburg trying to come back, down 7-3. Soto is 2-2 so far.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:59 PM
Lynchburg down 9-3 now.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 08:59 PM
Louisville is trailing 5-4.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Mark Fleury just hit his 2nd HR of the game for Dayton.

Louisville is down 7-4.

GOYA
07-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Alonso singles with one out in the 7th

He's 2 for 4

Frazier 2 for 3
Cisco 3 for 3

GOYA
07-08-2010, 09:45 PM
Valiquette was looking pretty good but allowed a solo HR in the 8th

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 09:50 PM
Mesoraco is 2-3 with a double and triple. Carolina tied at 2 in the 6th.

GOYA
07-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Adkins relieves Valiquette and allows his runner to score

9-4 Hens going to the bottom of the 8th

AWA85
07-08-2010, 10:09 PM
Coming in with my nightly report that Yorman Rodriguez is out of the line up once again. Any news out there on the ribs?

GOYA
07-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Bats lose 9-4


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Matthews CF 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 .339
Cozart SS 5 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 .255
Alonso 1B 5 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 .266
Frazier LF 4 1 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 .237
Francisco 3B 3 0 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 .288
Valaika 2B 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .293
Balentien RF 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 .223
Griffin DH 4 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 .318
Castillo C 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 .261

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Delgado (L, 2-2) 5.0 9 6 6 1 5 0 3.73
Del Rosario 0.2 1 1 1 2 1 0 3.22
Valiquette 1.2 2 2 2 1 4 1 4.50
Adkins 1.2 2 0 0 1 0 0 5.64

mace
07-08-2010, 10:37 PM
Mesoraco has now homered (with a man on). He's 3 for 4 with a 2B, 3B, HR. Mudcats lead 6-2.

juvey21
07-08-2010, 10:40 PM
Mesoraco has now homered (with a man on). He's 3 for 4 with a 2B, 3B, HR. Mudcats lead 6-2.

Truly AWESOME! Never thought Mes would ever explode like this. Glad he is producing and hopefully he can produce like this for the reds in the near future.

mace
07-08-2010, 10:43 PM
Dayton won 4-1 behind Fleury's 2 home runs. (He also hit one last night.) Good pitching all-around from Justin Walker, James Walczak and Pedro Villarreal.

mdccclxix
07-08-2010, 10:43 PM
Mesoraco has now homered (with a man on). He's 3 for 4 with a 2B, 3B, HR. Mudcats lead 6-2.

Walt, I'm counting on you to do the right thing. Wait on Mez.

HokieRed
07-08-2010, 10:44 PM
Walt, I'm counting on you to do the right thing. Wait on Mez.

Me, too, any thought of trading Mez is crazy.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Mesoraco has now homered (with a man on). He's 3 for 4 with a 2B, 3B, HR. Mudcats lead 6-2.

Yea this kid is having a monster year. I dont care if hes a fluke you dont trade catchers that have this kind of year. Id rather burn if he never amounts to anything than see him dominate for another team.

mace
07-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Daniel Wolford of Billings, this year's 14th-round draft choice from California, has 4 K tonight in two innings. For the season, he has 13 K in 9 IP. Billings trails 3-1.

Benihana
07-08-2010, 10:51 PM
He is making tough, isn't he?

Still wouldn't be sad if we got Cliff Lee, but the transformation of Mez has been enjoyable to watch.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Me, too, any thought of trading Mez is crazy.

Surely you jest. Trading a catcher who is throwing out 50% of runners and hitting .313/.379/.613 is a great idea. Not.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 10:55 PM
Ive been saying half heartedly Mes could be one of the best catchers in the minors after this year, I'm starting to think that has a very strong chance of happening.

membengal
07-08-2010, 10:59 PM
When's the last time the Reds had a 22-year-old catcher who turned in a .900+ OPS between A and AA?

I am asking in all seriousness.

Running my mind over the "prospects" that the Reds have developed in-house since Bench, not coming up with many candidates...

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Mesoracos OPS is now .923 in AA.

mdccclxix
07-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Doug, this season for Mez reminds me of Bruce climbing fast in 2006 or 2007. Any shot Mez goes to AAA with an injury opening?

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:03 PM
When's the last time the Reds had a 22-year-old catcher who turned in a .900+ OPS between A and AA?

I am asking in all seriousness.

Running my mind over the "prospects" that the Reds have developed in-house since Bench, not coming up with many candidates...

Gonna be hard to look that up probably.

Danny Lamar was a first round pick that had 1 year of .859 OPS in 1982... :laugh:

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Pretty sure Mesoraco is now one of the top 3 hitters in the southern league.

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Quick glance through the minor-league section of baseball reference.com rules out Joe Oliver.

LaRue OPS'd 1.046 as a 24-year-old in AA. That may be the closest to my question.

Dan Wilson was a .650 OPS in AA as a 22-year-old.

Any other in-house catching prospects since Bench that I am forgetting?

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:06 PM
I cant find one going back to the 70s at least from picks taken in the first 2 rounds.

Benihana
07-08-2010, 11:12 PM
Quick glance through the minor-league section of baseball reference.com rules out Joe Oliver.

LaRue OPS'd 1.046 as a 24-year-old in AA. That may be the closest to my question.

Dan Wilson was a .650 OPS in AA as a 22-year-old.

Any other in-house catching prospects since Bench that I am forgetting?

Jason LaRue is an interesting comp. True he was a year-and-a-half older for the level, but he also had a better track record overall. Use him as a cautionary tale for those that refuse to give Mez up for Lee.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:15 PM
Jason LaRue is an interesting comp. True he was a year-and-a-half older for the level, but he also had a better track record overall. Use him as a cautionary tale for those that refuse to give Mez up for Lee.

Jason Larue had a .740 OPS over 8 years with the Reds. Thats not all that bad.

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 11:16 PM
Jason LaRue is an interesting comp. True he was a year-and-a-half older for the level, but he also had a better track record overall. Use him as a cautionary tale for those that refuse to give Mez up for Lee.

I don't think using a 24 year old in AA as a 'cautionary tale' to not trade a guy who just turned 22 three weeks ago makes all that much sense at all.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:19 PM
I know many people dont want to hear it but there was always a case to be made that Mesoraco was doing better than the numbers suggested. All those peripherals were strong.

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:23 PM
Jason LaRue is an interesting comp. True he was a year-and-a-half older for the level, but he also had a better track record overall. Use him as a cautionary tale for those that refuse to give Mez up for Lee.

No. He was two years older. Let's not shade to fit narratives here.

LaRue was also an answer at catcher for this team for a long time. Cheaply. That has plenty of value.

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:24 PM
I don't think using a 24 year old in AA as a 'cautionary tale' to not trade a guy who just turned 22 three weeks ago makes all that much sense at all.

This.

Said better than I just did.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:28 PM
Carlos Santana at age 22 in A+ and AA in 2008
.326/.431/.568
Rated 26 best prospect in baseball in 2009
Santanas 2007 stats in low A ball at age 21
.223/.318/.370


Devin Mesoraco at age 22 in the same levels not counting tonight
.306/.374/.587

Stats in A+ ball age 21
.228/.311/.381
Interesting none the less

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:31 PM
Other random catchers who have had major league success for your perusals (minor league stats):

Brian McCann:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mccann001bri

Russell Martin:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=martin003rus

GIDP just got to Carlos Santana.

"Well played Mauer":

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mauer-001jos

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:32 PM
Other random catchers who have had major league success for your perusals (minor league stats):

Brian McCann:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mccann001bri

Russell Martin:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=martin003rus

GIDP just got to Carlos Santana.

"Well played Mauer":

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mauer-001jos
I looked a little deeper and their stats are very interesting and similar.

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Jorge Posada:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=posada001jor

NorrisHopper30
07-08-2010, 11:34 PM
Will Mez get another at bat?

dougdirt
07-08-2010, 11:34 PM
Will Mez get another at bat?

No. Game is over.

Benihana
07-08-2010, 11:35 PM
No. He was two years older. Let's not shade to fit narratives here.

LaRue was also an answer at catcher for this team for a long time. Cheaply. That has plenty of value.

Cliff Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball. THAT has plenty of value.

Redmachine2003
07-08-2010, 11:36 PM
Jason LaRue is an interesting comp. True he was a year-and-a-half older for the level, but he also had a better track record overall. Use him as a cautionary tale for those that refuse to give Mez up for Lee.

Wasnt the lookouts ball park kind of small. Larue was almost 2 full years older born on March 19 and Mez born June 19th. Larue OPS was greatly affect by his speed with 9 Triples and being a doubles hitter. He was never a big Home run hitter. He did steal a few bases and I believe even batted lead off for a while. If Mez would have came out of College this year posting these Numbers with a metal bat he would have been taken in the top 5 players. But he is doing this with a wood bat at a better level don't sell the kid short just because you want to trade for Lee.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Let's not get too snippety. LaRue had MUCH better numbers than Mez before his breakout season in AA. Max Ramirez is another example of someone who was much better than Mez in the minors. There are tons of them out there.

Cliff Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball. THAT has plenty of value.

Larue really didnt though. He was older, and the numbers really werent MUCH better.

Redmachine2003
07-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Lee is a great pitcher but the Reds wont be able to resign him

membengal
07-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Cliff Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball. THAT has plenty of value.

Do they get to keep him after the next two months?

No?

Then, no, no Mes. Not for a rental. Not when the major league club has Hernandez/Hanigan as its catching duo. Mes is not blocked. If he can play, they have a need for him, and soon. If he can be an OPS guy in the majors someday around .750-.800 with good defense, the Reds have a screaming need for him. Perhaps he can do that. This kind of breakthrough hints that there's a chance.

Mind you, I am not talking "superstar". Just that if he can be "good", then he should stay put.

GIDP
07-08-2010, 11:40 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=mesora001dev

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=larue-001mic

Seriously I dont know how you could consider those MUCH better numbers.

mdccclxix
07-08-2010, 11:48 PM
22 PB for Larue at one point...

Best looking comp would be Russel Martin. Mauer was clearly superior to the others. Posada spent 3 years in AAA before coming up in 1996. What would be wrong with Mez in 2012 at 24 coming up to back up Hanny before he takes over?

Either way, Mez could bring more next offseason than right now. He doesn't exactly fit the mlb ready script for Lee, either.

mace
07-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Meanwhile, Dave Sappelt, who is 23, who by all accounts is a terrific center fielder, who has never ranked particularly high among the Reds' best prospects nor attracted any significant degree of respect, also homered for Carolina tonight, and raised his league-leading average to .330.

SirFelixCat
07-09-2010, 12:44 AM
Cliff Lee is one of the best pitchers in baseball. THAT has plenty of value.

2 months. 2 months of him vs close to a decade. No brainer imo.

fearofpopvol1
07-09-2010, 01:31 AM
I would have to think (and hope) that Walt would not cut Mez loose for Lee. I'm sure the Ms are interested, but I would have to think that Walt would hang on to him.

Dude is having a monster year. I'm starting to think he may be the best prospect in the entire Reds system. Certainly if he continues at the rate he has been for the remainder of the year he will be.

dougdirt
07-09-2010, 01:43 AM
I would have to think (and hope) that Walt would not cut Mez loose for Lee. I'm sure the Ms are interested, but I would have to think that Walt would hang on to him.

Dude is having a monster year. I'm starting to think he may be the best prospect in the entire Reds system. Certainly if he continues at the rate he has been for the remainder of the year he will be.

He is sitting at #2 for me behind only Chapman at this point.

OnBaseMachine
07-09-2010, 03:04 AM
Another nice game for Junior Arias: 2-for-5 with a double. Now hitting .338/.375/.574 - .949 OPS in 68 atbats.

Hoosier Red
07-09-2010, 09:26 AM
Do they get to keep him after the next two months?

No?

Then, no, no Mes. Not for a rental. Not when the major league club has Hernandez/Hanigan as its catching duo. Mes is not blocked. If he can play, they have a need for him, and soon. If he can be an OPS guy in the majors someday around .750-.800 with good defense, the Reds have a screaming need for him. Perhaps he can do that. This kind of breakthrough hints that there's a chance.

Mind you, I am not talking "superstar". Just that if he can be "good", then he should stay put.

Now I've never seen Grandal play, but that's a factor too isn't it?

Is 6 years of (projected)Mesaraco over (projected)Grandal worth more than the next two months of Cliff Lee over Travis Wood?

membengal
07-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Having never seen Grandal play, and not knowing if he will ever sign (open question until he does), I am simply unable to factor him into any of this. Plus, it's not like Grandal comes as a Joe Mauer-esque "sure thing" at C, far from it if I understand his scouting reports correctly. Grandal has things to work on, substantial things, and will need a good deal of development time. We won't know what we have in for a year or two, likely, right?

I just can't include him in any figuring right now, for my part.

HokieRed
07-09-2010, 09:32 AM
Having never seen Grandal play, and not knowing if he will ever sign (open question until he does), I am simply unable to factor him into any of this. Plus, it's not like Grandal comes as a Joe Mauer-esque "sure thing" at C, far from it if I understand his scouting reports correctly. Grandal has things to work on, substantial things, and will need a good deal of development time. We won't know what we have in for a year or two, likely, right?

I just can't include him in any figuring right now, for my part.

Agree. I think it would be quite a leap of unjustified faith to think we can trade Mes because we have Grandal. Maybe in the right deal we trade Mes but I think you'd have to keep Grandal's future strictly out of it as a factor in the decision.

Mario-Rijo
07-09-2010, 09:49 AM
He is sitting at #2 for me behind only Chapman at this point.

Same here. Alonso a close #3.

HokieRed
07-09-2010, 11:13 AM
Same here. Alonso a close #3.

I think Doug and you have the top three, but I'd go Alonso, Chapman, Mes. And I don't want to trade any of them for a rental. If we don't trade Alonso, I still think his bat will make us plenty glad we didn't.

icehole3
07-09-2010, 11:39 AM
Ive seen Grandal play 3 games and he reminds me of Posado, I've never seen Mesaraco play, I'd like the core of the team to be have strong players up the middle and also keep Votto long term and then trade your prospects thats why I'd like to see the keep both catchers

dougdirt
07-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Having never seen Grandal play, and not knowing if he will ever sign (open question until he does), I am simply unable to factor him into any of this. Plus, it's not like Grandal comes as a Joe Mauer-esque "sure thing" at C, far from it if I understand his scouting reports correctly. Grandal has things to work on, substantial things, and will need a good deal of development time. We won't know what we have in for a year or two, likely, right?

I just can't include him in any figuring right now, for my part.

Even if we can figure him in, lets be as honest as we possibly can.... Mesoraco is right now, everything we can hope that Grandal could be one day.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 12:26 PM
Devin Mesoraco is hitting so well this year he would be one of the Reds top 3 even if he wasnt a catcher.

GOYA
07-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Devin Mesoraco is hitting so well this year he would be one of the Reds top 3 even if he wasnt a catcher.

Mes - 22 - AA - May June July - .276/.321/.613
Cisco - 23 - AAA - May June July - .369/.423/.669

GIDP
07-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Mes - 22 - AA - May June July - .276/.321/.613
Cisco - 23 - AAA - May June July - .369/.423/.669

Mes whole 2009 season

.313/.379/.613

and better k/bb rates better IsoP

Yea Mes might be the best hitter in the Reds system right now.

OnBaseMachine
07-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Yorman was a late scratch last night:


Mustangs outfielder Yorman Rodriguez was in the original starting lineup but was a scratch before the game. Rodriguez has missed the last 10 games since suffering a rib injury in a collision with Sierra. Rodriguez’s 14 RBIs still lead the Mustangs.

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/baseball/professional/minor/pioneer-league/mustangs/article_8b6d3ce2-8b21-11df-849c-001cc4c002e0.html

GOYA
07-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Mes whole 2009 season

.313/.379/.613

and better k/bb rates better IsoP

Yea Mes might be the best hitter in the Reds system right now.

The best hitter facing A+ pitching maybe?

Cisco had a very slow start after being sent down from the majors. See if his end of season numbers don't eclipse Mesoraco's.

dougdirt
07-09-2010, 02:40 PM
The best hitter facing A+ pitching maybe?

Cisco had a very slow start after being sent down from the majors. See if his end of season numbers don't eclipse Mesoraco's.

I bet they won't. Not enough patience. Francisco has never come close to a .900 OPS on a season. Mesoraco is near 1.000 right now.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 02:44 PM
The best hitter facing A+ pitching maybe?

Cisco had a very slow start after being sent down from the majors. See if his end of season numbers don't eclipse Mesoraco's.

I dont know why you want to use the level against Mes so much. Its not like hes the same age as Juan. Juan didnt put up Mes numbers when he was 22 in AA.

For all we know Mes next year in AAA could put up even better numbers. Its relative.

GOYA
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I dont know why you want to use the level against Mes so much. Its not like hes the same age as Juan. Juan didnt put up Mes numbers when he was 22 in AA.

No, Juan put up .359/.384/.598 in AAA when he was 22.


For all we know Mes next year in AAA could put up even better numbers. Its relative.

And for all we know Francisco could be putting up those numbers in the bigs next year. It's not about projections, it's about who is hitting in the minor league system right now. And Juan is out-hitting Devon since Devon was called up to AA.

dougdirt
07-09-2010, 03:11 PM
No, Juan put up .359/.384/.598 in AAA when he was 22.
In a limited sample, with an incredibly unsustainable BABIP. Which is why he isn't doing it again this year.




And for all we know Francisco could be putting up those numbers in the bigs next year. It's not about projections, it's about who is hitting in the minor league system right now. And Juan is out-hitting Devon since Devon was called up to AA.
Its Devin with an I. And its all about projections.

GOYA
07-09-2010, 03:14 PM
Devin Mesoraco is hitting so well this year he would be one of the Reds top 3 even if he wasnt a catcher.

That statement is not about projections. It's about current hitting performance.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 03:16 PM
That statement is not about projections. It's about current hitting performance.

What do you think the word prospect means?

GOYA
07-09-2010, 03:33 PM
What do you think the phrase "this year" means?

GIDP
07-09-2010, 03:37 PM
What do you think the phrase "this year" means?

I'm talking about a prospect list... Not a "this year list" :laugh:

GOYA
07-09-2010, 05:50 PM
And you based your statement around his "hitting so well this year".

If you want to think Mes is hitting better than Francisco, by all means, think that.

dougdirt
07-09-2010, 05:56 PM
And you based your statement around his "hitting so well this year".

If you want to think Mes is hitting better than Francisco, by all means, think that.

Don't have to think it.... he is. Higher average. Much higher OBP. Much higher SLG.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:08 PM
And you based your statement around his "hitting so well this year".

If you want to think Mes is hitting better than Francisco, by all means, think that.

Yes based off this year, his age, and the level there is no reason for me to not suggest hes a top 3 prospect just based off his hitting alone. His season and all the stats that surround it suggest that bat will have a strong chance of playing every day in the big leagues even if it isnt behind the plate.