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View Full Version : Cliff Lee traded to Rangers...



Kingspoint
07-09-2010, 06:14 PM
It's official.

For Justin Smoak and others.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:16 PM
I'm interested in how the Rangers can add payroll.

1990REDS
07-09-2010, 06:16 PM
At least he's staying in the AL.

Reds
07-09-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm interested in how the Rangers can add payroll.

cash going back to rangers from SEA.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 06:18 PM
At least he's not going to the Yanks.

FlyerFanatic
07-09-2010, 06:19 PM
time to move on haren, get it done walt!

Kingspoint
07-09-2010, 06:19 PM
I'm interested in how the Rangers can add payroll.

They can't. The Mariners are including money in the deal.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:21 PM
cash going back to rangers from SEA.

not 4 million, and Mark Lowe makes 1.5 million this year...

Rangers are taking on 5.5 million

thats 3 million on payroll after the Mariners send 2.5.

KOBasinger
07-09-2010, 06:21 PM
At least he's not going to the Yanks.

Amen to that.

Reds
07-09-2010, 06:21 PM
2.5M - :eek:

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 06:22 PM
not 4 million

2.5 million will cover a lot.

bigred97
07-09-2010, 06:25 PM
Ken Rosenthal just said we were in serious play for Lee the last 48 hours. Seems we always come up short.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 06:34 PM
Ken Rosenthal just said we were in serious play for Lee the last 48 hours. Seems we always come up short.

Depending on the quality of the prospects the Rangers had to give up in the deal along with Justin Smoak I could live with coming up short this time. We have the team to be in this position 2 or 3 or more years running.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Just say NO to Haren and stand with what we have, nothing to see here, nothing we don't already have, to expensive and the Dbacks are going to want a ton.


time to move on haren, get it done walt!

Kingspoint
07-09-2010, 06:37 PM
Along with Justin Smoak, the Mariners will reportedly acquire RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke and 2B Matt Lawson from the Rangers for Cliff Lee and Mark Lowe.

That's not so bad for Texas. Smoak is a big loss, but they'll hold on to the rest of their top prospects in the deal. Beaven has a chance to be a part of a major league rotation, but Lueke is just a relief prospect and Lawson is a long shot to enjoy a career as a major league infielder. The trade is set to be announced at 6 p.m. EDT. It's believed that the Mariners are paying $2.5 million of the $4 million that Lee is owed.

Source: LongStarDugout on Twitter

Reds
07-09-2010, 06:41 PM
I've actually heard that Seattle will pay all of the 4 million owed..

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:49 PM
Another missed oppertunity by the reds organization.

They gave justin smoak and a couple of minor leage pitchers. of only one being seriously thought to even have a chance at making the Majors next year.

Justin smoak is batting a terrible .209avg.

Then the rangers have to pay a small 2.5 mil rental fee for the rest of the year.

What a joke. How could we have not put together a better deal with imo a much better 1b potential in Yonder over Justin smoak.

Just pathetic.

BigPoppa
07-09-2010, 06:50 PM
So, I gather that this is a 1/2 season rental deal ?

That makes it less painful.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:51 PM
Justin Smoak and Yonder Alonso are basically similar prospects. Seattle liked Smoak more.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 06:51 PM
I've actually heard that Seattle will pay all of the 4 million owed..

That makes more sense.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 06:51 PM
How do you know we didn't offer Yonder and the M's feel Smoak has better upside. What makes you think that we didn't make a good offer and the M's just felt the Ranger offer was better?


Another missed oppertunity by the reds organization.

They gave justin smoak and a couple of minor leage pitchers. of only one being seriously thought to even have a chance at making the Majors next year.

Justin smoak is batting a terrible .209avg.

Then the rangers have to pay a small 2.5 mil rental fee for the rest of the year.

What a joke. How could we have not put together a better deal with imo a much better 1b potential in Yonder over Justin smoak.

Just pathetic.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 06:55 PM
Justin Smoak and Yonder Alonso are basically similar prospects. Seattle liked Smoak more.


How do you know we didn't offer Yonder and the M's feel Smoak has better upside. What makes you think that we didn't make a good offer and the M's just felt the Ranger offer was better?

You cant look at the numbers and what was traded and come to that conclusion.

We could have offered a much better package and more money then they did.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Along with Justin Smoak, the Mariners will reportedly acquire RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke and 2B Matt Lawson from the Rangers for Cliff Lee and Mark Lowe.

That's not so bad for Texas. Smoak is a big loss, but they'll hold on to the rest of their top prospects in the deal. Beaven has a chance to be a part of a major league rotation, but Lueke is just a relief prospect and Lawson is a long shot to enjoy a career as a major league infielder. The trade is set to be announced at 6 p.m. EDT. It's believed that the Mariners are paying $2.5 million of the $4 million that Lee is owed.

Source: LongStarDugout on Twitter

I find it hard to believe that we couldn't beat that deal with Alonso/Francisco + someone else that isn't Mez/Wood. BUT its also likely that Seattle saw Mez and wanted any deal to absolutely include him. With their link to Ramos/Montero I'd bet good money they had their eyes set on Mez and Walt wouldn't let him go.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 07:05 PM
You cant look at the numbers and what was traded and come to that conclusion.

We could have offered a much better package and more money then they did.

We could have, but in the end the Rangers liked Smoak.

Smoak and Yonder are similar level of prospects with Smoak slightly ahead.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 07:11 PM
We could have, but in the end the Rangers liked Smoak.

Smoak and Yonder are similar level of prospects with Smoak slightly ahead.

how is smoak above yonder>?

batting .200 in the majors is getting it done apparently>?

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:11 PM
You cant look at the numbers and what was traded and come to that conclusion.

We could have offered a much better package and more money then they did.


And you know this how?

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:12 PM
how is smoak above yonder>?

batting .200 in the majors is getting it done apparently>?

When the other guy is struggling at AAA, yep it sure does.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 07:13 PM
how is smoak above yonder>?

batting .200 in the majors is getting it done apparently>?
Justin Smoak
Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
Pre-2009: Rated #23 Prospect
Pre-2010: Rated #13 Prospect


Yonder Alonso
Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
Pre-2009: Rated #35 Prospect
Pre-2010: Rated #45 Prospect

Just for starters.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 07:15 PM
how is smoak above yonder>?

batting .200 in the majors is getting it done apparently>?

Smoak's plate discipline rivals Adam Dunn's at the same age. He has been on the wrong side of a Jay Bruce-like BABIP this year. His power projects well. He has only looked overmatched against LHP really, and if he can figure that out we will be extremely valuable. The list of reasons Smoak is a bigger pull than Alonso goes on and on.

To what I think was your original point: I think we could have offered a better package overall, but Smoak is a much better 1B prospect than Alonso right now.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 07:26 PM
Smoak's plate discipline rivals Adam Dunn's at the same age. He has been on the wrong side of a Jay Bruce-like BABIP this year. His power projects well. He has only looked overmatched against LHP really, and if he can figure that out we will be extremely valuable. The list of reasons Smoak is a bigger pull than Alonso goes on and on.

To what I think was your original point: I think we could have offered a better package overall, but Smoak is a much better 1B prospect than Alonso right now.

Possibly however the PRe-2010 prospects dont mean jack to me right now when were halfway through the season.

Facts are smoak is batting is .209

Which is god awful. Is he facing lefties all the time>? lol

And yes i agree with you. I think even if you value smoak Slightly over yonder. Which you may be able to, i think there is no way you see him as FAR more valuable. if you ask me right now if i would trade yonder straight up for smoak i say no.

However i think wood is worlds better then the pitchers seattle got in return. and heisey could have been thrown in the deal as well.

Yonder, wood, heisey, bailey. and more money.

I would have to say that a lot better package then seattle got wouldnt you.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:34 PM
Possibly however the PRe-2010 prospects dont mean jack to me right now when were halfway through the season.

Facts are smoak is batting is .209

Which is god awful. Is he facing lefties all the time>? lol

And yes i agree with you. I think even if you value smoak Slightly over yonder. Which you may be able to, i think there is no way you see him as FAR more valuable. if you ask me right now if i would trade yonder straight up for smoak i say no.

However i think wood is worlds better then the pitchers seattle got in return. and heisey could have been thrown in the deal as well.

Yonder, wood, heisey, bailey. and more money.

I would have to say that a lot better package then seattle got wouldnt you.

Well first off why would Seattle want a damaged Bailey? Second why in god's green earth would you include Wood and Heisey? If you want to make sure you get Lee then sure why not just offer Votto/Bruce/Stubbs and Cueto and then we can promote up Yonder, put Heisey in CF and Francisco in RF and hope Bailey returns to 2009 last month of the season form....:thumbup:

bshall2105
07-09-2010, 07:37 PM
Possibly however the PRe-2010 prospects dont mean jack to me right now when were halfway through the season.

Facts are smoak is batting is .209

Which is god awful. Is he facing lefties all the time>? lol

And yes i agree with you. I think even if you value smoak Slightly over yonder. Which you may be able to, i think there is no way you see him as FAR more valuable. if you ask me right now if i would trade yonder straight up for smoak i say no.

However i think wood is worlds better then the pitchers seattle got in return. and heisey could have been thrown in the deal as well.

Yonder, wood, heisey, bailey. and more money.

I would have to say that a lot better package then seattle got wouldnt you.

The problem is that package is way more than anyone was willing to offer. People don't just trade their top three major league prospects unless they're getting a lot of good talent. One player does not equal 3 major league ready prospects along with a former number one pick. That's crazy.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 07:40 PM
Well first off why would Seattle want a damaged Bailey? Second why in god's green earth would you include Wood and Heisey? If you want to make sure you get Lee then sure why not just offer Votto/Bruce/Stubbs and Cueto and then we can promote up Yonder, put Heisey in CF and Francisco in RF and hope Bailey returns to 2009 last month of the season form....:thumbup:

there you go again with the sarcasm and stupid stuff.

Why wouldnt they want bailey. You trying to say bailey is less valuable then the pitching prospects they picked up from texas>? lol

Why wouldnt i give up heisey and wood.

We would still have

Lee
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Chapman
Leak
lecure

How many more for your starting rotation do you need>?

And for Heisy we would still have

Nix
Stubbs
Bruce
Gomes
francisco

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 07:41 PM
The problem is that package is way more than anyone was willing to offer. People don't just trade their top three major league prospects unless they're getting a lot of good talent. One player does not equal 3 major league ready prospects along with a former number one pick. That's crazy.

For a chance to win the world series.

i take it all day long. not to mention for a chance to start a common theme if we happened to resign him and dropped harang somewhere.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:44 PM
there you go again with the sarcasm and stupid stuff.

Why wouldnt they want bailey. You trying to say bailey is less valuable then the pitching prospects they picked up from texas>? lol

Why wouldnt i give up heisey and wood.

We would still have

Lee
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Chapman
Leak
lecure

How many more for your starting rotation do you need>?

And for Heisy we would still have

Nix
Stubbs
Bruce
Gomes
francisco

Wow where to start. First Bailey is damaged goods. There is arm issues there, you don't shut a guy down for as long as the Reds have with Bailey if there is not arm issues there. So no way in you know what would Seattle take that on.

Wood is young and cheap, Lee is neither. Lee wouldn't have been here next season, Wood will be here for the next 5-6 seasons possibly. Heisy is better then Nix, Gomes or Francisco easily.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:45 PM
For a chance to win the world series.

i take it all day long. not to mention for a chance to start a common theme if we happened to resign him and dropped harang somewhere.

resign who? You really can't believe the Reds would have the 100+ million it will take to sign Lee to a 5-6 year deal do you?

Reds
07-09-2010, 07:45 PM
After hearing the Mariners GM speak it appears as if Seattle really liked Smoak and once his name was on the table it took only hours to complete.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:46 PM
After hearing the Mariners GM speak it appears as if Seattle really liked Smoak and once his name was on the table it took only hours to complete.


Well he must be an idiot, I mean really anyone can see Yonder is the next great HOF first basemen and to pass on him is just stupid....:cool:

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 07:49 PM
Possibly however the PRe-2010 prospects dont mean jack to me right now when were halfway through the season.

Facts are smoak is batting is .209

Which is god awful. Is he facing lefties all the time>? lol

And yes i agree with you. I think even if you value smoak Slightly over yonder. Which you may be able to, i think there is no way you see him as FAR more valuable. if you ask me right now if i would trade yonder straight up for smoak i say no.

However i think wood is worlds better then the pitchers seattle got in return. and heisey could have been thrown in the deal as well.

Yonder, wood, heisey, bailey. and more money.

I would have to say that a lot better package then seattle got wouldnt you.

Smoak has a sub-.500 OPS against Lefties right now. It's dragging down his overall numbers significantly and making him look worse than he has been. He has a great 24% LD rate yet only a .238 BABIP. Jay Bruce has a 21% LD rate this year and has seen similar struggles against Lefties, but he enjoys a BABIP that is 100 points higher. Would you say Jay is a better player than Alonso? Because Smoak is a very comparable bat to Bruce atm. 23 years old. Great bats. Professional approaches at the plate.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 07:50 PM
Well he must be an idiot, I mean really anyone can see Yonder is the next great HOF first basemen and to pass on him is just stupid....:cool:

because thats what i said.

Vottomatic
07-11-2010, 10:56 AM
Well he must be an idiot, I mean really anyone can see Yonder is the next great HOF first basemen and to pass on him is just stupid....:cool:

I agree. I think the Mariners got "Smoaked" in this deal. :D

By the way, Cliff Lee lost in his first start for the Rangers last night, giving up 6 earned runs and losing 6-1.

I blame the Texas offense for not scoring 7 runs. ;)