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View Full Version : The Reds Should NOT go After Dan Haren, Zach Greinke or Any Other Pitcher



The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 07:55 PM
It really sucks that the Reds could not land Cliff Lee. Lee would have helped the Reds in big ways. He is arguably THE best pitcher in the Major Leagues. That is why I believed the Reds should have (and did) made an aggressive move towards acquiring the talent. I think it would have been well worth the price, but the Rangers (and Yanks) made better offers, life sucks, and the Reds need to move on reasonably.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE REDS SHOULD SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST AT THIS POINT IN THE SEASON

With Volqueze and Chapman coming up in just a week or so, with options like Wood, Maloney, and Homer Bailey coming back, The Reds ARE solid position right now to compete for a central title. I believe the Reds should now take the philosophy "Where Volqueze goes, the Reds go".

I do not believe that Haren, Greinke or any other pitcher available right now, is worth lessening our farm system for despite there contracts length.

Haren- I am not totally sold that Haren is an ace that the Reds are looking for. McCallester said that he is not even sure if he is much better then Arroyo or Cueto right now. And I agree with him. unless the Reds can manage a deal that would pick up both Haren AND Stephen Drew, I do not feel that it is potent to sell the farm.

Greinke- The name scares everyone...but he is not have an "Ace" year this year. he has a 3.21 ERA with a 5-8 rec. his whip is good though at 1.16. Unless the Reds can get a Good deal for him, which I don't see them doing since Greinke is really the only thing KC has to offer to their fans at the moment, I do not believe it is a good idea to sell the farm for him either.

Oswalt - I despise the idea of sending OUR minor league talent to an inner division foe. Why shoot ourselves in the foot in more then one way.

Just my 2 cents....Go to war with the troops we have.

brm7675
07-09-2010, 07:58 PM
It really sucks that the Reds could not land Cliff Lee. Lee would have helped the Reds in big ways. He is arguably THE best pitcher in the Major Leagues. That is why I believed the Reds should have (and did) made an aggressive move towards acquiring the talent. I think it would have been well worth the price, but the Rangers (and Yanks) made better offers, life sucks, and the Reds need to move on reasonably.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE REDS SHOULD SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST AT THIS POINT IN THE SEASON

With Volqueze and Chapman coming up in just a week or so, with options like Wood, Maloney, and Homer Bailey coming back, The Reds ARE solid position right now to compete for a central title. I believe the Reds should now take the philosophy "Where Volqueze goes, the Reds go".

I do not believe that Haren, Greinke or any other pitcher available right now, is worth lessening our farm system for despite there contracts length.

Haren- I am not totally sold that Haren is an ace that the Reds are looking for. McCallester said that he is not even sure if he is much better then Arroyo or Cueto right now. And I agree with him. unless the Reds can manage a deal that would pick up both Haren AND Stephen Drew, I do not feel that it is potent to sell the farm.

Greinke- The name scares everyone...but he is not have an "Ace" year this year. he has a 3.21 ERA with a 5-8 rec. his whip is good though at 1.16. Unless the Reds can get a Good deal for him, which I don't see them doing since Greinke is really the only thing KC has to offer to their fans at the moment, I do not believe it is a good idea to sell the farm for him either.

Oswalt - I despise the idea of sending OUR minor league talent to an inner division foe. Why shoot ourselves in the foot in more then one way.

Just my 2 cents....Go to war with the troops we have.

Both Haren and especially Oswalt are to expensive for the Reds budget. Greinke's number would improve big time switching to the pitcher friendly NL, but not enough to warrent trading off good young talent for.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Zach Greinke would be worth getting no matter the season.

Haren would be a good guy to get to replace arroyo or harang.

Oswalt will never happen.

Reds
07-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Jocketty: Like I said the other day, we were looking for a significant player. I'm not sure there's another guy like him out there.

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Though I agree it was a little reach putting his numbers up, I do not believe the cost of the guy (in prospects) would be worth it.

bshall2105
07-09-2010, 08:02 PM
I would still go after Greinke. You said it yourself a 3.21 ERA in the AL to go along with a 1.16 WHIP. Those are terrific numbers. If he came over to the NL Central his ERA would probably be in the low 2's. He's coming off of a CY Young season. I'd like him as much as I would have liked Cliff Lee, he's younger and presumably cheaper.

Reds
07-09-2010, 08:03 PM
I am glad you guys agree...though I was hoping for a little debate :(

If you can trade for Greinke and lock him up longterm you'd be crazy not to check the details. that's all the debate i got :D

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 08:03 PM
If you can trade for Greinke and lock him up longterm you'd be crazy not to check the details. that's all the debate i got :D

sorry I edited at the last moment.

sabometrics
07-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Jocketty: Like I said the other day, we were looking for a significant player. I'm not sure there's another guy like him out there.

That is very reassuring. Jocketty reaffirms my faith in his competency as our GM yet again.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Completely agree.

The reds needed a dominating lefty. Not more RH. Were very well of for Rh pitching.

bleedsred
07-09-2010, 10:11 PM
I would like to see the Reds add another arm for the pen and a bat for the bench. Nix is a waste of a roster spot. I don't know about everybody else but I think Bray could be huge down the stretch as well as Edison and Chapman. I was thinking the other day that Dye is still out there...wonder if he would like to join a playoff race on the cheap?

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I would like to see the Reds add another arm for the pen and a bat for the bench. Nix is a waste of a roster spot. I don't know about everybody else but I think Bray could be huge down the stretch as well as Edison and Chapman. I was thinking the other day that Dye is still out there...wonder if he would like to join a playoff race on the cheap?


the arm for the Bull Pen will come by way of a Missile (a Cuban Missile) Aroldis Chapman. If a bat off the bench is all we need out of a player, could we call up Yonder Alonso?

webbbj
07-09-2010, 11:00 PM
i agree it was either lee or bust. they still could have a potential ace coming with volquez but we still should get bullpen help. anyone kow the offer we gave for lee?

markymark69
07-09-2010, 11:00 PM
I agree with the sentiment. Haren, I'm sure he's better than what we have. Oswalt, I doubt Houston would trade him within the division (although he'd be a pretty good consolation prize) and I just don't know why in the world Greinke would even be on the block.

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:08 PM
I agree with the sentiment. Haren, I'm sure he's better than what we have. Oswalt, I doubt Houston would trade him within the division (although he'd be a pretty good consolation prize) and I just don't know why in the world Greinke would even be on the block.

Haren- ERA 4.32 ......7-6 Record

Cueto- ERA 3.20...... Record 8-2

Arroyo- ERA 4.40...........Record 9-4


You'd be Surprised!

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Time to offer everything in the world for Greinke and Soria

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:14 PM
Time to offer everything in the world for Greinke and Soria

Why would you do that for someone who has not been proven in the playoffs or even an important game? who's stats this year is not the best, and would take about 2 worlds to get?

scott91575
07-09-2010, 11:15 PM
How about a closer?

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:16 PM
Why would you do that for someone who has not been proven in the playoffs or even an important game? who's stats this year is not the best, and would take about 2 worlds to get?

:laugh: I cant tell if you are joking or what.

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:21 PM
:laugh: I cant tell if you are joking or what.

you really want to Trade most of everything for Zach Greinke?

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:26 PM
you really want to Trade most of everything for Zach Greinke?

and Soria? Yes. Id trade a ton for those 2 guys.

bgwilly31
07-09-2010, 11:30 PM
and Soria? Yes. Id trade a ton for those 2 guys.

why>?

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:31 PM
and Soria? Yes. Id trade a ton for those 2 guys.

do you not realize what we have coming up on our own?

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:33 PM
do you not realize what we have coming up on our own?

Both of the guys I named arent going to go anywhere any time soon if we trade for them.

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Both of the guys I named arent going to go anywhere any time soon if we trade for them.

but neither are the guys that are coming up from the minors.

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:40 PM
but neither are the guys that are coming up from the minors.

Greinke is better than anyone we have coming up in the minors and would be the best pitcher on our team. I 100% believe that.

Soria has saved 90% of his save chances since he came into the league. Has a career WHIP under 1, a BAA of .196, and a Career ERA of 2.13

Id take both of those guys and not think twice in most cases. No doubt about it.

The Voice of IH
07-09-2010, 11:47 PM
Greinke is better than anyone we have coming up in the minors and would be the best pitcher on our team. I 100% believe that.

Soria has saved 90% of his save chances since he came into the league. Has a career WHIP under 1, a BAA of .196, and a Career ERA of 2.13

Id take both of those guys and not think twice in most cases. No doubt about it.

you would never get both of them regardless. (you would have to be extremely lucky to get one of them)

GIDP
07-09-2010, 11:48 PM
you would never get both of them regardless. (you would have to be extremely lucky to get one of them)

Now thats probably correct. Id still be trying like a maniac.

Vottomatic
07-10-2010, 04:31 AM
It really sucks that the Reds could not land Cliff Lee. Lee would have helped the Reds in big ways. He is arguably THE best pitcher in the Major Leagues. That is why I believed the Reds should have (and did) made an aggressive move towards acquiring the talent. I think it would have been well worth the price, but the Rangers (and Yanks) made better offers, life sucks, and the Reds need to move on reasonably.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE REDS SHOULD SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST AT THIS POINT IN THE SEASON

With Volqueze and Chapman coming up in just a week or so, with options like Wood, Maloney, and Homer Bailey coming back, The Reds ARE solid position right now to compete for a central title. I believe the Reds should now take the philosophy "Where Volqueze goes, the Reds go".

I do not believe that Haren, Greinke or any other pitcher available right now, is worth lessening our farm system for despite there contracts length.

Haren- I am not totally sold that Haren is an ace that the Reds are looking for. McCallester said that he is not even sure if he is much better then Arroyo or Cueto right now. And I agree with him. unless the Reds can manage a deal that would pick up both Haren AND Stephen Drew, I do not feel that it is potent to sell the farm.

Greinke- The name scares everyone...but he is not have an "Ace" year this year. he has a 3.21 ERA with a 5-8 rec. his whip is good though at 1.16. Unless the Reds can get a Good deal for him, which I don't see them doing since Greinke is really the only thing KC has to offer to their fans at the moment, I do not believe it is a good idea to sell the farm for him either.

Oswalt - I despise the idea of sending OUR minor league talent to an inner division foe. Why shoot ourselves in the foot in more then one way.

Just my 2 cents....Go to war with the troops we have.

I mostly agree with this opening post.

Oswalt and Haren come at too expensive a price. Haren's numbers this year aren't much better than most of the guys in our starting rotation. Oswalt is too expensive and isn't a Cliff Lee. He's good, but not good enough to make me want to give up alot of prospects and take on his huge salary.

Greinke is a different story. I seriously doubt he is available though.

There are a few guys who are staff aces, most not available, that I'd be interested in FOR THE RIGHT GROUP OF OUR PROSPECTS. I don't want to trade Mesoraco, Heisey or Wood. But we have guys who are position blocked who may be stuck in triple A with nowhere to go..........and their value is probably greater as trade bait.......such as Alonso, Francisco, Dorn, Valaika, Maloney, LeCure, and others. Are all those guys as valuable as Wood, Heisey and Mez? No. But that's my point. There are still some good pieces we can trade that would be valuable to other teams that have no place for us. Finding a match is the key. If there is no match, I'm fine with keeping them and going with what we got.

Hopefully Volquez (good outing tonight) is a difference maker. Not counting my chickens before they're hatched, but you never know.

Girevik
07-10-2010, 09:45 AM
I'd trade for Greinke in a heartbeat, but I don't think there's any way KC will let him go. They've got him for a while before he gets expensive.

Haren is not much of an upgrade, and way too expensive. Oswalt is probably an upgrade for now, but he's on the older side and has several hears left at big time bucks....not sure it's worth the risk (if Houston would even consider trading in the division).

Orodle
07-10-2010, 01:40 PM
The Reds shouldnt go after reigning AL Cy Young award winning Greinke? wow

3.21 ERA is pretty damn good, especially in a league with the DH

However, I would imagine him to be more expensive than Lee due to his age.

BringDownMugabe
07-10-2010, 02:47 PM
When are people going to stop counting on immediate success from Volquez this season? The dude is still in the minors coming off TJ surgery. The list of pitchers who had success immediately following TJ surgery is miniscule compared to the pitchers that immediately struggled, such as Hudson and Liriano. Banking on Volquez to be reliable, never the less a #1, is just going to get your hopes up.

And Chapman? He has a 1.54 WHIP in AAA. I don't think that deserves a MLB rotation spot during a pennant chase -- not unless that $30MM is a factor.

GIDP
07-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Reds were in attendance for the DBacks and Marlins game in which Haren and Nolasco were both pitching.

gedred69
07-10-2010, 05:37 PM
the arm for the Bull Pen will come by way of a Missile (a Cuban Missile) Aroldis Chapman. If a bat off the bench is all we need out of a player, could we call up Yonder Alonso?

If I'm calling up a bat, I'd go for Dorn, or even Valaika.

Griffey012
07-10-2010, 05:57 PM
Zach Greinke would be worth getting no matter the season.

Haren would be a good guy to get to replace arroyo or harang.

Oswalt will never happen.

You want to replace Arroyo? Are you speaking in terms of next season I hope assuming we don't resign him?

GIDP
07-10-2010, 06:17 PM
You want to replace Arroyo? Are you speaking in terms of next season I hope assuming we don't resign him?

Im speaking in terms of next season.