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View Full Version : The move Walt needs to make



brm7675
07-10-2010, 03:34 PM
Many here were a bit upset we didn't get Lee. Now people want him to go after another bat or RP. If Walt REALLY wants to put this team in the best position to win the division and make the playoffs, there is only 1 move he needs to make and it won't cost us any young talent, just a few bucks.

FIRE DUSTY BAKER, GET BUCK SHOWALTER IN HERE.

GIDP
07-10-2010, 03:35 PM
What then fire Buck? Has he ever taken a team to the playoffs? I thought teams went to the playoffs after he left.

BakoTheTako
07-10-2010, 03:38 PM
Buck Showalter is a moron.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 03:40 PM
Buck is a in your face type of manager, with a strong backgroun in winning organizations. This team has not had an in your face type manager who isn't going to worry about "pleasing" players. He will play the best ones and do what is best for the team, not worrying about hurting feelings....

Knightro28
07-10-2010, 03:57 PM
Look at Lou "In Your Face" Piniella and what he has done to the Cubs.

I'll stick with Dusty, thanks.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 03:58 PM
Look at Lou "In Your Face" Piniella and what he has done to the Cubs.

I'll stick with Dusty, thanks.



A) Lou isn't that type of manager anymore, he has aged
B) The Cubs don't have the talent the Reds don
C) Sticking with Dusty will get you what you saw last night and no playoff appearance, is that really what you want?

AintlifeGrande
07-10-2010, 04:24 PM
A) Lou isn't that type of manager anymore, he has aged
B) The Cubs don't have the talent the Reds don
C) Sticking with Dusty will get you what you saw last night and no playoff appearance, is that really what you want?



Not sure about that statement.

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 04:28 PM
If you're going to say fire Dusty Baker then at least replace him with a manager that's better. I think we need to call Bobby Cox everyday this off season until he gets so annoyed that he signs a 2 year contract.

Knightro28
07-10-2010, 04:29 PM
A) Lou isn't that type of manager anymore, he has aged
B) The Cubs don't have the talent the Reds don
C) Sticking with Dusty will get you what you saw last night and no playoff appearance, is that really what you want?

He took a team who won the NL Central in his first two years to its current state, even while infusing the talents of Starlin Castro, Marlon Byrd, Carlos Marmol, Tyler Colvin, et al.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:37 PM
Not sure about that statement.


Sorry they don't. There is not one person on their roster that I would take and start on the Reds, can you name one?

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 04:39 PM
Sorry they don't. There is not one person on their roster that I would take and start on the Reds, can you name one?

Starlin Castro.

sabometrics
07-10-2010, 04:39 PM
Marlon Byrd. Starlin Castro. They have a number of bullpen arms I'd love to have.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:41 PM
Starlin Castro.

What does Starlin offer at SS that Brandon Phillips if played in the correct position brings to the table?

sabometrics
07-10-2010, 04:42 PM
What does Starlin offer at SS that Brandon Phillips if played in the correct position brings to the table?

Are we seriously going here? You want to move a gold glove 2B because you think he isn't playing the correct position? You're out of control man.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Marlon Byrd. Starlin Castro. They have a number of bullpen arms I'd love to have.

Byrd make make it as our 4th OF, but he doesn't start over Stubbs/Bruce/Gomes or Heisey. What bullpen arms? Really, have you seen their bullpen? Maybe and it's a huge maybe Marmol, but even then, I will take Rhodes as my closer over him.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:43 PM
Are we seriously going here? You want to move a gold glove 2B because you think he isn't playing the correct position? You're out of control man.

Yep, why can't he be a gold glove at SS? Isn't the idea to play your best players in the positions that best help the team?

GIDP
07-10-2010, 04:43 PM
Starlin Castro is the only player in the Cubs current roster I would take over anyone on the Reds starting roster.

Position players that is.

sabometrics
07-10-2010, 04:46 PM
Byrd make make it as our 4th OF, but he doesn't start over Stubbs/Bruce/Gomes or Heisey. What bullpen arms? Really, have you seen their bullpen? Maybe and it's a huge maybe Marmol, but even then, I will take Rhodes as my closer over him.

Byrd is 10x better than Stubbs right now. Of course over the next 5 years I'd rather have Stubbs, but right now? Byrd hands down.

And maybe on Marmol? Are you crazy? Marshall is a solid BP arm. Cashner is a young phenom who has been good out of the pen.

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Yep, why can't he be a gold glove at SS? Isn't the idea to play your best players in the positions that best help the team?

If you want Phillips to play SS I want Castro to play second. It doesn't matter, He's an upgrade over Cabrera, Janish, Cairo.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:52 PM
If you want Phillips to play SS I want Castro to play second. It doesn't matter, He's an upgrade over Cabrera, Janish, Cairo.

Play Phillips at SS, put Janish at 2nd and you then have probably the best infield in baseball. Heck I would call up Frazier and put him at 2nd. I want my best glove at the most demanding position. People scoffed when I called to move Brandon to the leadoff slot, how has that gone since Dusty made that move?

Also can anyone defend Dusty for still playing Orlando?

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 04:56 PM
Play Phillips at SS, put Janish at 2nd and you then have probably the best infield in baseball. Heck I would call up Frazier and put him at 2nd. I want my best glove at the most demanding position. People scoffed when I called to move Brandon to the leadoff slot, how has that gone since Dusty made that move?

Also can anyone defend Dusty for still playing Orlando?

If you play Janish at SS you have the best infield in baseball. There is no need to move anybody out of position. Just as many balls go to second as they do to SS, the Gold Glover needs to stay.

brm7675
07-10-2010, 04:58 PM
If you play Janish at SS you have the best infield in baseball. There is no need to move anybody out of position. Just as many balls go to second as they do to SS, the Gold Glover needs to stay.

Fine I can live with that also, and it give the Reds a better chance of winning over Orlando/Phillips, but do you think Dusty will make that move? I mean if he won't bench him even though he is like 0 for his last 20 something at bats, what would it take? Stubbs struggles and he sits him, Orlando struggles and he just keeps running him out there and bats him 2nd. Stupid....

Vottomatic
07-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Seems to me that most of our worst losses have come from the bullpen not being able to hold a lead.

Seems to me acquiring bullpen help should be priority #1 instead of acquiring more starting pitching.

BRM13
07-10-2010, 07:42 PM
Seems to me that most of our worst losses have come from the bullpen not being able to hold a lead.

Seems to me acquiring bullpen help should be priority #1 instead of acquiring more starting pitching.

I think there are two issues. Winning the division probably requires what you suggest. They might be able to win the division even without doing anything trade wise with EV, Chapman, and maybe Bailey becoming available in the second half. OTOH, a better pen pretty much assures the Reds of winning the division (so long as Rolen, Votto, and Phillips play like they have in the second half). This should also be cheaper ($$ and talent) than a starting pitcher.

Going deep in the post-season really requires a dominant #1 and a strong pen. Lee would have given the Reds a better than decent chance at the WS. I'm not sure anyone else they can acquire does that. That said, I think the Reds should strongly consider 'overpaying' somewhat to make a deep run this year. It's been too long for this fanbase without winning. A really successful season will translate into higher attendance later this year and carry over into next year (happens for most teams this way; no reason to think Cincinnati would be any different).

Mr Larkin
07-11-2010, 12:47 AM
Play Phillips at SS, put Janish at 2nd and you then have probably the best infield in baseball. Heck I would call up Frazier and put him at 2nd. I want my best glove at the most demanding position. People scoffed when I called to move Brandon to the leadoff slot, how has that gone since Dusty made that move?

Also can anyone defend Dusty for still playing Orlando?

Yes, OCab has had some of the most clutch hits of the season and one of the few players making contact with Roy Haladay tonight. He also has shown decent fielding range for such a veteran.

Moving Phillips to short? Goofy.:)

Mr Larkin
07-11-2010, 12:51 AM
People who think that Paul Janish is the greatest infielder on the planet make me smile in a "Oh, bless their heart" kind of way. If you don't know, "Oh, bless their heart", often spoken in churches really means - what a fool!:D

bshall2105
07-11-2010, 01:21 AM
People who think that Paul Janish is the greatest infielder on the planet make me smile in a "Oh, bless their heart" kind of way. If you don't know, "Oh, bless their heart", often spoken in churches really means - what a fool!:D

Are you saying that Orlando Cabrera is a better defensive SS than Paul Janish? If so than oh, bless your heart.

Vottomatic
07-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Byrd and Marmol would have significant roles with the Reds. Dempster and Silva would make the starting rotation some how or atleast make it an interesting battle. Not sure about any other Cubs.

What's funny is that only Derek Lee, Ted Lilly, Xavier Nady and Chad Tracy are free agents at the end of the season, a savings of $30.2M. But they have 9 players eligible for arbitration including Geovany Soto, Tom Gorzelanny, Mike Fontenot, Carlos Marmol and Ryan Theriot.

They are stuck with Soriano making $19M through 2014, Zambrano making around $19M through '12, Aramis Ramirez makes $14.6M through next season, and Fukudome making $14.5M through next season too. They will never unload Soriano and Zambrano, so that is $38M they are stuck with for awhile. Ha ha ha.

Dempster, Silva, and Byrd are the only ones earning their pay.

Vottomatic
07-14-2010, 09:43 PM
The obvious move is finding a trading partner for what we have to offer (as opposed to the guys we don't want to trade) - Alonso, Francisco, Maloney, and a few others. A team looking for a future first baseman and a power hitting lefthand bat, and an end of the rotation starter..........surely we could find a trade partner to bolster our bullpen.

bshall2105
07-14-2010, 10:05 PM
The obvious move is finding a trading partner for what we have to offer (as opposed to the guys we don't want to trade) - Alonso, Francisco, Maloney, and a few others. A team looking for a future first baseman and a power hitting lefthand bat, and an end of the rotation starter..........surely we could find a trade partner to bolster our bullpen.

I would not trade Alonso or Francisco for bullpen help. Bullpen guys should come cheap, save our top prospects for a big time deal, not a 38 year old with 2 years left in the tank.

Roush's socks
07-14-2010, 10:06 PM
It isn't that easy to find "sure-thing" bullpen help. If they could make Bailey into a closer that might be their best bet.

It also is possible that Cordero and Masset will improve. Bullpen guys go through stretches sometimes.

Griffey012
07-14-2010, 10:09 PM
What does Starlin offer at SS that Brandon Phillips if played in the correct position brings to the table?

Way more than our replacement 2nd baseman would then offer.

Griffey012
07-14-2010, 10:09 PM
After we hire Showalter, can we please please please hire Steve Phillips and get rid of Jocketty?:rolleyes:

markymark69
07-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Fine I can live with that also, and it give the Reds a better chance of winning over Orlando/Phillips, but do you think Dusty will make that move? I mean if he won't bench him even though he is like 0 for his last 20 something at bats, what would it take? Stubbs struggles and he sits him, Orlando struggles and he just keeps running him out there and bats him 2nd. Stupid....

Although, Cabrera is struggling offensively, I think you're missing one point. If the Reds were going to be satisfied with a strong defensive shortstop, Cabrera would have never been here and Janish would have gotten the job. The idea was to upgrade the offense from the shortstop position. You can argue whether that has happened or not, but Cabrera has had a number of clutch hits. I do not believe that Janish would have 30 RBI's at this point if he was the starting shortstop and I'm not sure that he would have 30 RBI's for the season. And its not like Cabrera's defense has been all that bad. Janish can pick it, no question. But Cabrera has been better with the glove probably than even Walt anticipated.

I agree with moving Cabrera out of the two hole and I know for some, this point doesn't count. But I believe that Cabrera's veteran influence has been a plus. The Reds are not exactly loaded with guys who have played in a pennant race. That is valuable, IMO.

I can agree that Cabrera probably needs to be rested more, but to totally make the switch to Janish, I just think it's going to happen.