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Benihana
07-10-2010, 03:01 PM
Assuming the Reds don't trade for the ever-coveted ace, how would people feel about a six-man rotation coming out of the break? I'd imagine something like:

Arroyo
Cueto
Leake
Wood
Volquez
Maloney/Bailey

It would keep everyone's innings down- Leake and Wood because they're young, Bailey and Volquez because of their health issues, and Arroyo and Cueto so they can stay fresh for the playoffs. :beerme:

Redsfan320
07-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Doesn't sound bad to me. Why is 5 the standard anyway? I can understand that most pitchers need at least 4 days of rest, but why aren't there more teams with 6 starters, or even 7?

320

kbrake
07-10-2010, 03:20 PM
I'd imagine because its hard to find good pitching. Its hard enough finding decent 4 and 5 starters. Can't imagine looking for 6 and 7 starters.

mth123
07-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Assuming the Reds don't trade for the ever-coveted ace, how would people feel about a six-man rotation coming out of the break? I'd imagine something like:

Arroyo
Cueto
Leake
Wood
Volquez
Maloney/Bailey

It would keep everyone's innings down- Leake and Wood because they're young, Bailey and Volquez because of their health issues, and Arroyo and Cueto so they can stay fresh for the playoffs. :beerme:

I'm against this idea. Bailey is still not really on a time table. Maloney should go back down when Volquez arrives. Maybe when Harang comes back. I'm guessing Bailey won't be back until September.

Benihana
07-10-2010, 04:56 PM
I'm against this idea. Bailey is still not really on a time table. Maloney should go back down when Volquez arrives. Maybe when Harang comes back. I'm guessing Bailey won't be back until September.

I thought about including Harang in that sixth spot along with Maloney and Bailey. The point is not as much about keeping Maloney (or Bailey) in the rotation as it is about limiting the innings of everyone else. Ideally, I'd like to have Leake pitching as late into the season as possible so long as he doesn't exceed his innings limit. Ditto for Wood. And I'm worried about fatigue with a guy like Cueto. This might be the best way to solve all of those problems.

KronoRed
07-10-2010, 04:57 PM
Doesn't sound bad to me. Why is 5 the standard anyway? I can understand that most pitchers need at least 4 days of rest, but why aren't there more teams with 6 starters, or even 7?

320

Because its puts more time between your best pitchers pitching.

Give me a 4 man rotation.

TheNext44
07-10-2010, 05:03 PM
Because its puts more time between your best pitchers pitching.

Give me a 4 man rotation.

I agree. Given that most only throw around six innings and 100 pitches a game, it really shouldn't put excessive stress on their arms. Heck, it might actually make them stronger.

mth123
07-10-2010, 05:26 PM
I thought about including Harang in that sixth spot along with Maloney and Bailey. The point is not as much about keeping Maloney (or Bailey) in the rotation as it is about limiting the innings of everyone else. Ideally, I'd like to have Leake pitching as late into the season as possible so long as he doesn't exceed his innings limit. Ditto for Wood. And I'm worried about fatigue with a guy like Cueto. This might be the best way to solve all of those problems.

Leake can safely go another 60 to 65 innings. After the break the Reds will have 72 games remaining. On a 5 man timetable, that is 14 starts. Skip him three or four times and let him go 6 innings or so in the remaining starts and he'll end the season on track. If the play-offs become a reality, the rotation drops to 3 or 4 men and Leake is probably inactive. This is probably less a problem than we've been thinking.

Cueto is a bigger concern IMO. He's probably good for 200 to 210 IP this year or another 100 or so. If the Reds go deep in the play-offs, he may need to start another 20 games or so before the season and play-offs end. If he went 6 innings per start, he'd have 17 or so and may be at risk or worn out come play-off time. He's not really a guy a team in a race can afford to skip or be without come play-off time and we'd probably like to see him go more than 6 innings per game.

Arroyo, Harang, Bailey and Volquez shouldn't be at any risk.

I wouldn't go every six days as suggested, but it does seem that a couple guys will need to be skipped here and there and the extra starters will be needed at some point. Between Cueto and Leake the Reds probably need somebody to take the ball 10 times or so to keep ther innings down. They are both too young and valuable to push too much above their previous seasons IMO.

steig
07-10-2010, 05:38 PM
Leake can safely go another 60 to 65 innings. After the break the Reds will have 72 games remaining. On a 5 man timetable, that is 14 starts. Skip him three or four times and let him go 6 innings or so in the remaining starts and he'll end the season on track. If the play-offs become a reality, the rotation drops to 3 or 4 men and Leake is probably inactive. This is probably less a problem than we've been thinking.

Cueto is a bigger concern IMO. He's probably good for 200 to 210 IP this year or another 100 or so. If the Reds go deep in the play-offs, he may need to start another 20 games or so before the season and play-offs end. If he went 6 innings per start, he'd have 17 or so and may be at risk or worn out come play-off time. He's not really a guy a team in a race can afford to skip or be without come play-off time and we'd probably like to see him go more than 6 innings per game.

Arroyo, Harang, Bailey and Volquez shouldn't be at any risk.

I wouldn't go every six days as suggested, but it does seem that a couple guys will need to be skipped here and there and the extra starters will be needed at some point. Between Cueto and Leake the Reds probably need somebody to take the ball 10 times or so to keep ther innings down. They are both too young and valuable to push too much above their previous seasons IMO.

Do you really think the Reds would make Leake inactive for the playoffs?

I don't think the Reds should keep Leake inactive if they make the playoffs. I like the idea of a 6 man rotation to help reduce his innings. But if the team gets into the playoffs they should pitch there best 3 or 4 arms irregardless of innings pitched during the season. It's been 11 years since the Reds had a chance at the playoffs and 20 since the Reds won. As a fan I want to see the Reds win a championship, not save young pitchers arms for a future that may not involve winning a world series. The Reds didn't have a playoff team after '90 until '94 (strike shortened but the were strong contenders) and '95.

mth123
07-10-2010, 07:22 PM
Do you really think the Reds would make Leake inactive for the playoffs?

I don't think the Reds should keep Leake inactive if they make the playoffs. I like the idea of a 6 man rotation to help reduce his innings. But if the team gets into the playoffs they should pitch there best 3 or 4 arms irregardless of innings pitched during the season. It's been 11 years since the Reds had a chance at the playoffs and 20 since the Reds won. As a fan I want to see the Reds win a championship, not save young pitchers arms for a future that may not involve winning a world series. The Reds didn't have a playoff team after '90 until '94 (strike shortened but the were strong contenders) and '95.

Its why they need to get a TOR starter. New guy, Cueto, Arroyo with maybe Volquez if a 4th is needed. If the Reds need Leake, I don't like our chances.

SMcGavin
07-10-2010, 08:34 PM
Because its puts more time between your best pitchers pitching.

Give me a 4 man rotation.

Right, but that is important because there's usually a big talent gap between the top and bottom of the rotation. I am not sure that's true for the Reds this year.

Always Red
07-11-2010, 01:11 PM
In Japan, a 6 man rotation is considered the norm.

Bobby Valentine managed in Japan until just recently, he had this to say in 2008:


Iíve also tried a six-man rotation in the States and it seemed to work. What changed my mind here was the amount of off-days. It seemed that everyone was on a routine. They use those off-days to practice. And without the practice in between starts, they werenít comfortable, so I stuck with the six-man rotation and I saw that the arms stayed healthier, the pitchers pitched longer in the game and they seemed to do just fine.

I donít know that itís culturally set in America. Itís pretty culturally set in Japan. You know, itís gone from a four-man rotation in the States to a five-man rotation, so the culture didnít keep it from changing.

There is a rock and a hard spot now in the States. Guys want to get their starts. They want to get their numbers. And usually, if you have a contract, you get to pitch a lot, and if you pitch a lot, then you get a contract. Itís something that America and MLB really has to deal with.

http://eastwindupchronicle.com/baseball/valentine-on-the-six-man-rotation/

WMR
07-11-2010, 01:17 PM
Hmmm... could a team institute a 6 man rotation without running afoul of the player's union?

If a team like the Reds instituted such a policy with their cavalcade of young pitchers, they could theoretically leverage them in a way that would ultimately devalue them when it came to contract time.