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View Full Version : So where are we trying to upgrade again?



BringDownMugabe
07-10-2010, 10:42 PM
The starting pitching as been pretty solid all season (w/ exception to April) and the offense has been good all season long (shutouts happen, especially against Halladay).

So where are the glaring needs that need to be addressed. Obviously the bullpen needs another reliever or three. Getting Soria from Kansas City or Marmol from Chicago (not sure they would trade within the division) would be ideal.

We could probably use an upgrade on the bench (got to get rid of Nix) and ideally in CF (but I don't see that happening).

So where do we go from here?

GIDP
07-10-2010, 10:45 PM
Need to:
downgrade Gomes
Upgrade Heisey
DFA Nix
Bring up Dorn
Find another reliever or 2.

BRM13
07-10-2010, 10:46 PM
I'd like to steal a good hitting shortstop from somebody. Relief pitching obviously.

GIDP
07-10-2010, 10:47 PM
I'd like to steal a good hitting shortstop from somebody. Relief pitching obviously.

oh how did I forget that.

ILoveWilly
07-10-2010, 10:48 PM
Need to:
downgrade Gomes
Upgrade Heisey
DFA Nix
Bring up Dorn
Find another reliever or 2.

- Move Harang to the pen, maybe as closer
- Move Maloney to pen when Volquez is back
- DFA Cordero or use his as emergency relief if losing games

GIDP
07-10-2010, 10:49 PM
BTW this team is good, but it needs some major help in a couple areas to be good enough. I like the roster for the most part. I dont even mind Cabrera that much, he needs to get time off more, but Nix doesnt hit righties that well, and Heisey plays just as good or better D. Reds dont have any LH power on the bench. Dorn would easily fix that, and he plays first base and LF.

BringDownMugabe
07-10-2010, 10:55 PM
First off, we all know Cabrera isn't going anywhere. He's exactly the kind of player Baker loves -- veteran and "knows how to win." Considering are position in the standings, I don't think he'll risk "changing the chemistry."

Gomes was due for a slump. He was playing out of his mind in the 1st half, but he's still a good hitter and you can't take him out of the lineup.

And CF is an issue -- it's just a matter of whether the option is in-house or elsewhere. Is Stubbs the guy? Heisey? I'm not sure what the deal is why Grady Sizemore (is he still hurt?) but that's a great opportunity to buy low (though I doubt Shapiro would trade him).

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 10:57 PM
- Move Harang to the pen, maybe as closer
- Move Maloney to pen when Volquez is back
- DFA Cordero or use his as emergency relief if losing games

If Maloney can't even put away Johan Santana there is noway he will be able to get outs in the pen. Maloney will go back down right after his start tomorrow.

ILoveWilly
07-10-2010, 11:00 PM
If Maloney can't even put away Johan Santana there is noway he will be able to get outs in the pen. Maloney will go back down right after his start tomorrow.

So you're saying he'll fit right in with our current pen?

I don't think Maloney is good, I'm just sick of this crap bullpen. The BEST solution is to just go out and get good cheap pen help thru trade, which shouldn't be that difficult going towards the deadline.

BringDownMugabe
07-10-2010, 11:06 PM
I don't think Maloney would see much success transitioning to the pen. Ideal candidates usually need to have the ability to K. Maloney would only be a decent mop-up/long relief role. We already have Owings for that so it looks like Maloney is an odd man out.

ILoveWilly
07-10-2010, 11:09 PM
I don't think Maloney would see much success transitioning to the pen. Ideal candidates usually need to have the ability to K. Maloney would only be a decent mop-up/long relief role. We already have Owings for that so it looks like Maloney is an odd man out.

I guess we could trade him for a reliever. Relief pitching is usually CHEAP. If you don't think so, look at some of the stuff we got for past solid relief guys we've had. We basically have given up every reliever we've had that has been decent the past few years for a PTBNL type or cash considerations. There should be plenty of teams out there like that willing to unload a solid reliever for little to nothing like that.

bshall2105
07-10-2010, 11:11 PM
Who did we get for David Weathers?

ILoveWilly
07-10-2010, 11:14 PM
Who did we get for David Weathers?

A PTBNL that later changed into cash last I remember. And I can't even think of a single decent prospect out of all the relievers we've traded over the years at the deadline, guys like Weathers and Mercker who were very solid.

NeilHamburger
07-10-2010, 11:45 PM
cough...David DeJesus...cough...number 2 hitter...cough...high OBP...cough...just what this team needs in front of Votto and Rolen...cough...can play center and left...cough

Damn, this cold.

redsfan_12
07-11-2010, 12:01 AM
cough...David DeJesus...cough...number 2 hitter...cough...high OBP...cough...just what this team needs in front of Votto and Rolen...cough...can play center and left...cough

Damn, this cold.

I keep saying go get him. I would love to have him.

GIDP
07-11-2010, 12:09 AM
Id take my chances of Heisey being Dejesus and at league minimum and the cost of nothing.

Seriously just play Heisey in left and get it over with.

Griffey012
07-11-2010, 12:25 AM
People who want OCab gone or benched must not realize that real life mlb is not a video game. These are real players, real teammates, real emotions, etc. Take away one of the core clubhouse guys from this team and you will deflate team morale. Deflate team morale and this team loses its knack for coming back late...and we slip away into being a mediocre team.

Those Saber nuts can't quantify the value of guys like OCab because almost all of them have never played the game, and get emotional only over things like a variation in the value of r-squared of .01. Leadership is an integral, non-quantifiable part of every team, organization, etc. But with sabermetrics there is no such thing.

Are Sabermetrics great, yes. Are they perfect, no. Is Ocab a huge part of this team, yes. We can't upgrade SS bc of what it would do to team morale. And just because the saber stats say he is awful does not mean he doesn't help this team go.


Now about DeJesus and a bat off the bench. Those would be fantastic. Not sure who to target as a PH though.

I agree with GIDP, he should get more off-days, which would maybe make him stay more fresh, and would keep his leadership in full force.

ILoveWilly
07-11-2010, 12:33 AM
People who want OCab gone or benched must not realize that real life mlb is not a video game. These are real players, real teammates, real emotions, etc. Take away one of the core clubhouse guys from this team and you will deflate team morale. Deflate team morale and this team loses its knack for coming back late...and we slip away into being a mediocre team.

Those Saber nuts can't quantify the value of guys like OCab because almost all of them have never played the game, and get emotional only over things like a variation in the value of r-squared of .01. Leadership is an integral, non-quantifiable part of every team, organization, etc. But with sabermetrics there is no such thing.

Are Sabermetrics great, yes. Are they perfect, no. Is Ocab a huge part of this team, yes. We can't upgrade SS bc of what it would do to team morale. And just because the saber stats say he is awful does not mean he doesn't help this team go.


Now about DeJesus and a bat off the bench. Those would be fantastic. Not sure who to target as a PH though.

I agree with GIDP, he should get more off-days, which would maybe make him stay more fresh, and would keep his leadership in full force.

I'm sorry but I think I've heard it all. We can't get better because it would hurt morale? LOL. :laugh:

FlyerFanatic
07-11-2010, 12:49 AM
i dont want ocab gone, i just want janish to get more time. its unreal that he doesnt. ocab was 0-15 coming into tonights game, besides hes played nearly everyday, he can take some days off. janish comes in the cubs game, goes 4 for 4 and he hasnt seen an AB since? what the heck

GIDP
07-11-2010, 01:00 AM
Janish would have to go 0-22 to have an OPS lower than Cabreras.

Not kidding I just did the math :laugh:

BringDownMugabe
07-11-2010, 01:23 AM
I guess we could trade him for a reliever. Relief pitching is usually CHEAP. If you don't think so, look at some of the stuff we got for past solid relief guys we've had. We basically have given up every reliever we've had that has been decent the past few years for a PTBNL type or cash considerations. There should be plenty of teams out there like that willing to unload a solid reliever for little to nothing like that.

Right, kind of like when the Reds traded their starting RF, starting SS, and 1st round draft pick for Bill Bray (a prospect at that time) and a garbage relief pitcher. Depending on the quality, everything can have a steep price, even relief pitchers.

cbowen2112
07-11-2010, 01:33 AM
RP will come from within I feel. Bailey and Harang when healthy. Chapman when he gets into a groove.

SS will be better next year. Janish is not going to dethrone OCab because of a slump.

LF Heisey is the answer there everyday of the week IMO. He has flat out played the game the right way. He will be rewarded hopefully soon with more time there. Also, if Matthews Jr. keeps getting ABs he could replace Nix soon. (Not much better, but better nonetheless)

Or you could have Nix be sent down and bring up Francisco to be the LH PH and back up to Rolen and platoon some with Gomes/Heisey in LF if needed. He is leaps and bounds better than Nix.

Closer, I think will get better (call me crazy) He will have to wake up and realize that if they are to contend, he needs to pitch better. Masset, although atrocious at times, has the stuff to close and Coco knows this.

The SP is so good right now that I have a feeling we will be in many ballgames for the rest of the season. This is fun!

Roush's socks
07-11-2010, 02:45 AM
Once Volquez returns, the Reds need to figure out who is in their plans for the starting rotation. Someone like Bailey or Maloney should be moved to the bullpen along with Chapman. That would be a pretty good boost without making any trades.

They should trade Alonso for whatever is available because he is blocked forever by Votto.

Vottomatic
07-11-2010, 09:18 AM
If money were no issue, I'd DFA Cordero. But I know it won't happen.

I have no idea why people think the Reds will trade for Dejesus. They will not add payroll for an OFer when they already have a surplus of OFers.

Reds will only make a trade if they can ship out some payroll along with the trade. They are not going to have an $80M+ payroll. Sorry. It just isn't going to happen.

Nor are they going to completely give up on our young guys unless they are position blocked like Alonso.

We need bullpen help in the worst way possible.

We have plenty of options in terms of starting pitching. Which may be unprecedented in my lifetime of watching this Reds organization. They've always had bullpen help from the minors but never starting pitching. Now it's the complete opposite for some strange reason.