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WildcatFan
07-12-2010, 11:59 AM
A Boston network is reporting (http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2010/07/12/jays-make-three-relievers-available/) that Toronto is making three of its relievers available for trade: Scott Downs, Jason Frasor and...wait for it...Kevin Gregg.

Personally I'd love to see Downs in Cincinnati, given that he's a Kentucky guy, plus he's a lefty with a 1.01 WHIP and has walked just 8 batters in 41 innings. He's making $4 million in the last year of a 3-year contract. Frasor is a ground ball guy but isn't much better than what we have now, but I'd take him for a low prospect.

Gregg, on the other hand, has had somewhat of an up-and-down season but has been on fire lately and has given up just two earned runs since a June 1 collapse against Tampa. He's making just $2 million this year and has a $4.5 million option for next season.

I'd love to make a pass at Gregg and/or Downs; I'm in the camp that the only real spot I'm concerned about heading into a playoff run is the bullpen. That doesn't mean I would be upset with landing a Haren or Oswalt, but a move like this needs to happen first.

KOBasinger
07-12-2010, 12:03 PM
No thanks on Gregg. When he played for the Marlins and they were in town we kinda got into it while he was warming up in the bullpen. Would be kinda funny if he ended up here though. Maybe he remembers me:p:

KOBasinger
07-12-2010, 12:04 PM
BTW, Downs would be great to have.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 12:19 PM
A Boston network is reporting (http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2010/07/12/jays-make-three-relievers-available/) that Toronto is making three of its relievers available for trade: Scott Downs, Jason Frasor and...wait for it...Kevin Gregg.

Personally I'd love to see Downs in Cincinnati, given that he's a Kentucky guy, plus he's a lefty with a 1.01 WHIP and has walked just 8 batters in 41 innings. He's making $4 million in the last year of a 3-year contract. Frasor is a ground ball guy but isn't much better than what we have now, but I'd take him for a low prospect.

Gregg, on the other hand, has had somewhat of an up-and-down season but has been on fire lately and has given up just two earned runs since a June 1 collapse against Tampa. He's making just $2 million this year and has a $4.5 million option for next season.

I'd love to make a pass at Gregg and/or Downs; I'm in the camp that the only real spot I'm concerned about heading into a playoff run is the bullpen. That doesn't mean I would be upset with landing a Haren or Oswalt, but a move like this needs to happen first.

Sure go after them if they are willing to take say single A or double A guys or maybe a Chris Dickerson or such, but you don't trade good talent for bullpen guys, we tried that before and how did that go?

Lockdwn11
07-12-2010, 12:26 PM
Sure go after them if they are willing to take say single A or double A guys or maybe a Chris Dickerson or such, but you don't trade good talent for bullpen guys, we tried that before and how did that go?

Well it looks like Bray is the best of the bunch so I would say pretty good. I'm not for doing this but people still talk about "The Trade" as if the Reds gave up something.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 12:32 PM
Well it looks like Bray is the best of the bunch so I would say pretty good. I'm not for doing this but people still talk about "The Trade" as if the Reds gave up something.

They did, they gave up a very good OF in Austin Kearns. You have to remember Kearns was hurt alot and moved to a pitchers park. I would much rather right now have Kearns back and playing LF then having Bray.

Lockdwn11
07-12-2010, 12:35 PM
They did, they gave up a very good OF in Austin Kearns. You have to remember Kearns was hurt alot and moved to a pitchers park. I would much rather right now have Kearns back and playing LF then having Bray.

I would disagree.

KOBasinger
07-12-2010, 01:41 PM
Straight up, Bray > Kearns ..Anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish.

Orodle
07-12-2010, 01:43 PM
at this point definitely Bray over Kearns. Kearns is basically doing what Bruce and Gomes are but with less homeruns.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Straight up, Bray > Kearns ..Anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish.


How is that? I would take Kearns over Bray anyday. Bray is average at best. if Kearns had stayed here and not battled injuries and a pitchers ball park we would have an incredible OF of Kearns/Stubbs/Bruce.

Add to that Bray is one pitch away from blowing out his arm again with his motion AND I will take an everyday player over a RP outside of Mariano R. anyday.

KOBasinger
07-12-2010, 02:21 PM
How is that? I would take Kearns over Bray anyday. Bray is average at best. if Kearns had stayed here and not battled injuries and a pitchers ball park we would have an incredible OF of Kearns/Stubbs/Bruce.

Add to that Bray is one pitch away from blowing out his arm again with his motion AND I will take an everyday player over a RP outside of Mariano R. anyday.

Gomes produces just as much if not more than Kearns. Plus the appearances that Bray has put in he has done a fine job. One of the best relievers this year for us.

Lockdwn11
07-12-2010, 02:22 PM
How is that? I would take Kearns over Bray anyday. Bray is average at best. if Kearns had stayed here and not battled injuries and a pitchers ball park we would have an incredible OF of Kearns/Stubbs/Bruce.

Add to that Bray is one pitch away from blowing out his arm again with his motion AND I will take an everyday player over a RP outside of Mariano R. anyday.

LOL You say bray is average at best? What does that make Kearns? I get it you are a Austin Kearns fan but Kearns couldn't start over any Outfielder on this team and it not a strong group outside of Bruce.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 02:23 PM
Gomes produces just as much if not more than Kearns. Plus the appearances that Bray has put in he has done a fine job. One of the best relievers this year for us.

Gomes is a nice player, but his D is horrible and his offence when is all said and done, won't be that much better then Kearns. Again I Bray is a limited relief pitcher with MAJOR arm issues, Kearns is a great Defender in the outfield and if playing at GABP would be putting up good numbers.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 02:24 PM
LOL You say bray is average at best? What does that make Kearns? I get it you are a Austin Kearns fan but Kearns couldn't start over any Outfielder on this team and it not a strong group outside of Bruce.

Right now I would start Kearns over Gomes or Heisey or Stubbs. The only OF on this roster I don't start him over is Bruce. Yes Bray is average, he is a situtional pitcher who had to have his arm recontructed and has an incredibly taxing motion on his arm every time he pitchs. Sorry but it's not even close.

Gomes: Kearns:
312 PA 370 PA
11 HR 7 HR
60 RBI's 38 RBI's
.277 AVG .270 AVG
.471 AVG .411 AVG
71 K's 70 K's

So given that Gomes plays in a hitters park and on a much better team, his numbers are a bit better, but who here isn't scared to death anytime a tough ball is hit to LF. Put Kearns in this lineup in GABP and add his D and we are a better team.

Lockdwn11
07-12-2010, 02:40 PM
One of the last players I would look to acquire if I wanted to improve this team is Austin Kearns he adds nothing that this team doesn't already have in spades I understand you like him but Kearns is a average LFer and Bray is a above average lefty out of the pen check the numbers.

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 02:44 PM
Oh God, no more talk about the trade. The argument has basically broken down to which side of a car crash got the worst end of it. Who cares anymore???

Girevik
07-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Word is Kearns is going to be available real soon anyway. Could be the Reds end up with both Kearns AND Bray.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Oh God, no more talk about the trade. The argument has basically broken down to which side of a car crash got the worst end of it. Who cares anymore???


Because I don't want to see Walt "panic" and make a similar move and see either Stubbs or Heisey go out the door for some "middle relievers".

brm7675
07-12-2010, 02:55 PM
Word is Kearns is going to be available real soon anyway. Could be the Reds end up with both Kearns AND Bray.

I would look at Kearns, but again what do they want in return? Hmm maybe we can give them Bray:thumbup:

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 03:09 PM
Because I don't want to see Walt "panic" and make a similar move and see either Stubbs or Heisey go out the door for some "middle relievers".

Um, was he here at the time? No. I think he isn't going to give up major pieces for relievers and a washed up SS.

Then again, I expect this board to freak out over WHOEVER we give up. Remember how many declared last year's trade a huge failure for Rolen? Meanwhile Stewart has a cool 4 plus ERA at double A and Encarnacion got demoted and has all of a .200 BA with Toronto.

So, no matter what we give up, it's going to be bashed, you can be sure of that.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Um, was he here at the time? No. I think he isn't going to give up major pieces for relievers and a washed up SS.

Then again, I expect this board to freak out over WHOEVER we give up. Remember how many declared last year's trade a huge failure for Rolen? Meanwhile Stewart has a cool 4 plus ERA at double A and Encarnacion got demoted and has all of a .200 BA with Toronto.

So, no matter what we give up, it's going to be bashed, you can be sure of that.

Sorry but the Rolen deal wasn't his, he didn't want any part of that deal, it was the owner who forced him to make that deal.

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Sorry but the Rolen deal wasn't his, he didn't want any part of that deal, it was the owner who forced him to make that deal.

Walt didn't want to make the deal? Where do you get this from?

WildcatFan
07-12-2010, 03:28 PM
At least change the thread title if this is going to happen.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Walt didn't want to make the deal? Where do you get this from?

It was in the paper, this move was done because Castalini wanted it done and approved it. Walt wasn't against it, but he didn't go looking for this deal.

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 03:33 PM
It was in the paper, this move was done because Castalini wanted it done and approved it. Walt wasn't against it, but he didn't go looking for this deal.

Well you just said he didn't want to do it, now you're saying he wasn't against it, LOL. Either way, the deal got done, and the point I was making is that people threw a fit over the obvious meh players we lost, and they haven't done crap for the Jays. So in the end, people here will probably once again overvalue any players we trade, like all fans do. Unless it's a really lopsided obvious trade.

Vottomatic
07-12-2010, 03:35 PM
It was well documented at the time of the trade that Austin Kearns was a slacker and bad influence on Adam Dunn.

No thanks.

I was glad to get rid of him. Another overhyped primadonna is what he was.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Well you just said he didn't want to do it, now you're saying he wasn't against it, LOL. Either way, the deal got done, and the point I was making is that people threw a fit over the obvious meh players we lost, and they haven't done crap for the Jays. So in the end, people here will probably once again overvalue any players we trade, like all fans do. Unless it's a really lopsided obvious trade.

I have no problem trading, what I don't want to see happen is we give up good young talent for bullpen arms. Sure make a trade, just don't give up the farm...

Vottomatic
07-12-2010, 03:38 PM
It was in the paper, this move was done because Castalini wanted it done and approved it. Walt wasn't against it, but he didn't go looking for this deal.

I disagree. Not the way I heard it went down. But to each his own.

As for Kearns and Lopez, part of the reason that deal went down is because both were coming up for arbitration, and Krivsky didn't think they were worth what they were going to ask for..........so he traded them.

roby
07-12-2010, 03:41 PM
Gomes produces just as much if not more than Kearns. Plus the appearances that Bray has put in he has done a fine job. One of the best relievers this year for us.

Agreed. I would much rather watch Gomes hustle his brains out than watch Kearns mope around like he doesn't care in the least. Not to mention Gomes' production. (When was the last time Austin had 60 RBIs in a season, let alone half a season!??!).

brm7675
07-12-2010, 04:01 PM
Agreed. I would much rather watch Gomes hustle his brains out than watch Kearns mope around like he doesn't care in the least. Not to mention Gomes' production. (When was the last time Austin had 60 RBIs in a season, let alone half a season!??!).

Great so we have a husseling LF who can't catch, but when hot can hit. Right now he is not hot so we have a average hitting LF who can't catch. When did Kearns mope around here in Cincy?

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 04:29 PM
I have no problem trading, what I don't want to see happen is we give up good young talent for bullpen arms. Sure make a trade, just don't give up the farm...

I mean if we gave Maloney up for a solid proven reliever, would you freak out over that?

markymark69
07-12-2010, 04:38 PM
I mean if we gave Maloney up for a solid proven reliever, would you freak out over that?

Sure, don't you realize that it didn't work before (Kearns, Lopez for Majewski et al) so it won't work this time. I mean we have a future list of Hall of Famers who are being held back in the minor leagues.

They should not try to win now - wait, wait, wait, wait for the young kids to develop. After all what's nine years of losing - who do we think we are the Cubs?:D

brm7675
07-12-2010, 04:55 PM
I mean if we gave Maloney up for a solid proven reliever, would you freak out over that?

Relievers are a dime a dozen and flame out very quickly. Name me some of the top relievers last year and I bet most are not doing so well this season. Heck look at the Reds, where is J. Burton, where is M. Lincoln, what about Co-Co. I don't trade quality players for bit players you can find off the FA wire and such.

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 05:00 PM
Relievers are a dime a dozen and flame out very quickly. Name me some of the top relievers last year and I bet most are not doing so well this season. Heck look at the Reds, where is J. Burton, where is M. Lincoln, what about Co-Co. I don't trade quality players for bit players you can find off the FA wire and such.

Um so Maloney, a guy who doesn't have strikeout stuff and is, at most a fringe 5th starter, and more likely a career minor leaguer is a "quality" player?

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I think he can throw together a good start here or there like he did yesterday, but he's also going to give up more than enough 5 IP, 5-7 ER games too like he did last year, and has done in AAA even.

Middle relief is NOT a dime a dozen, otherwise we wouldn't have a pen problem would we? There are guys out there that could really help if you look in the right places and they're scouted well. I'm not saying trade Wood, Stubbs, Alonso or anything for middle relief. But it seems like everyone thinks every player in the minor leagues under 25 or something is a future All Star.

markymark69
07-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Relievers are a dime a dozen and flame out very quickly. Name me some of the top relievers last year and I bet most are not doing so well this season. Heck look at the Reds, where is J. Burton, where is M. Lincoln, what about Co-Co. I don't trade quality players for bit players you can find off the FA wire and such.

Interesting thought. The Reds did not trade for any of those three you mentioned. Burton was a rule five pick-up, Cordero was a FA and Lincoln was signed originally to a minor league contract and made the team out of spring training. Not good evidence to back up your point. Also, quality minor leaguers do not necessarily make quality major leaguers.

Like it or not, the bullpen needs to be addressed. Not in a major way, but the Reds are still going to have to make a move of some kind.

brm7675
07-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Um so Maloney, a guy who doesn't have strikeout stuff and is, at most a fringe 5th starter, and more likely a career minor leaguer is a "quality" player?

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I think he can throw together a good start here or there like he did yesterday, but he's also going to give up more than enough 5 IP, 5-7 ER games too like he did last year, and has done in AAA even.

Middle relief is NOT a dime a dozen, otherwise we wouldn't have a pen problem would we? There are guys out there that could really help if you look in the right places and they're scouted well. I'm not saying trade Wood, Stubbs, Alonso or anything for middle relief. But it seems like everyone thinks every player in the minor leagues under 25 or something is a future All Star.

Well if Maloney isn't that good, then why would anyone take him for "MLB" level talent? Last time I checked Jim Bowden isn't a GM anywhere...:)

brm7675
07-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Interesting thought. The Reds did not trade for any of those three you mentioned. Burton was a rule five pick-up, Cordero was a FA and Lincoln was signed originally to a minor league contract and made the team out of spring training. Not good evidence to back up your point. Also, quality minor leaguers do not necessarily make quality major leaguers.

Like it or not, the bullpen needs to be addressed. Not in a major way, but the Reds are still going to have to make a move of some kind.

I didn't say it didn't need to be addressed, but I believe we can do it in house.

Move 1: Switch Rhodes to closer
Move 2: Switch Co-Co to situational set up for the time
Move 3: Move massett to AAA
Move 4: Put Homer in the Pen
Move 5: Move 6 USE OWINGS MORE
Move 6: Put Harang in pen till Leake innigs are up then bump him back in SR

ILoveWilly
07-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Well if Maloney isn't that good, then why would anyone take him for "MLB" level talent? Last time I checked Jim Bowden isn't a GM anywhere...:)

He's a fair swap for teams who are low on payroll, and need a starter, any starter that even has a slim chance to be good. Hell, we were in that position for YEARS and there are plenty of teams like that out there who need a starter just to have one, period.

Think how this franchise was years ago. Awesome bullpen, horrible starting pitching. I don't know the specifics of every team out there, but I'm willing to be there are more than a few teams that fit that profile out there. Also teams wanting to shed every dime, nickel, and penny of salary for practically nothing. The same position we have been in as well when we unloaded Weathers and Mercker to save a few bucks for PTBNL and cash considerations.

These are the types of things we should be able to take advantage of.

AintlifeGrande
07-12-2010, 07:12 PM
I could see Walt dealing for a BP arm from the Jays.He's had some trade dealings with them before.Love to see him deal for Frasor.

Girevik
07-13-2010, 08:11 AM
Relievers are a dime a dozen and flame out very quickly. Name me some of the top relievers last year and I bet most are not doing so well this season. Heck look at the Reds, where is J. Burton, where is M. Lincoln, what about Co-Co. I don't trade quality players for bit players you can find off the FA wire and such.

All that is irrelevant if you need a bullpen arm to make a run deep into the playoffs this year. I'm of the believe that if you are almost within reach of the gold ring, you have to do what it takes to grab it while you have your chance.

And no, that doesn't mean I'd overpay for a guy. Just that when you're in this position you need to look at what you need now and how you get him, not what you're going to do to position yourself for next year.