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View Full Version : Time to put HR Derby down...



redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 05:36 PM
It is time to eliminate the Home Run Derby...tonight's line up is pitiful at best...no players the average viewer could give a flying fig about. Why cant MLB force Fielder, Pujols, Vladi, Howard, etc. to participate? If they cant get the big names to participate, then kill it....just give everyone an extra day off...

Ghosts of 1990
07-12-2010, 05:46 PM
I've been waiting almost 10 years now to see Adam Dunn in a derby. I'll never see it I should just give up.

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 05:48 PM
no, even Adam Dunn is too big for HR Derby....

KronoRed
07-12-2010, 05:57 PM
Players not giving a crap about the derby is just another in a long list of reasons the entire all star game should be abolished.

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 05:58 PM
you know, krono...i really cant disagree with you at all...this is the least interested i have been in an all star game in years...even with four of our guys going...

RichRed
07-12-2010, 05:58 PM
I'd rather watch reruns of the original "Home Run Derby."

http://pauljlane.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/image13-2.jpg

BRM
07-12-2010, 05:59 PM
no, even Adam Dunn is too big for HR Derby....

Don't you have to be an all-star to participate in it?

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 05:59 PM
Rich, you should be scheduling programming on ESPN Classic tonite...

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Don't you have to be an all-star to participate in it?

mmm, not sure....if so, then definitely count dunner out...FOREVER...

RedFanAlways1966
07-12-2010, 06:01 PM
Players not giving a crap about the derby is just another in a long list of reasons the entire all star game should be abolished.

I am with you. Give all players a few days off. I could care less about the HR Derby. I could care less about the All-Star Game. I'd ALMOST rather watch two European teams play scoreless soccer for 2 hours.

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 06:03 PM
isnt there an all star workout?? televise that instead, and just go heavy on interviews...

BRM
07-12-2010, 06:03 PM
mmm, not sure....if so, then definitely count dunner out...FOREVER...

I was thinking Dunn stated years ago that he wouldn't participate unless he was named to the team. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter though because I think you have to be an all-star to even get an invite. I could be wrong though.

BRM
07-12-2010, 06:04 PM
isnt there an all star workout?? televise that instead, and just go heavy on interviews...

Just televise BP.

RANDY IN INDY
07-12-2010, 06:09 PM
I'd rather watch reruns of the original "Home Run Derby."

http://pauljlane.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/image13-2.jpg

Me too! Maybe they should revive the show with players from each team battling up to the Summer Classic and culminate it with the American League Champion vs. the National League Champion at the All-Star game.

RedsManRick
07-12-2010, 06:17 PM
I know I'd much rather see a skills competition involving throwing accuracy, bat control, fielding, etc. You'd have to avoid things that put guys at too much injury risk (e.g. full sprints), but it would still be more interesting than just watching HR. The derby just isn't exciting anymore and it's actually made worse by the horrible presentation (I'm looking at you Chris Berman).

If you do keep it, I think a better version would be a head-to-head playoff with AL on one side, NL on the other and the players seeded by their season-to-date HR totals. That would at least keep with the league format of the ASG.

This year it would be:

Cabrera (1) vs. Swisher (4)
Wells (2) vs. Ortiz (3)

Hart (1) vs. Ramirez (4)
Holliday (2) vs. Young (3)

It's not perfect, but at least it wouldn't be so repetitive. How silly is it that of the top 11 HR hitters in the NL, 6 of whom are All-Stars, only 1 is the in HR derby. If that's not a sign, I don't know what is.

Another potential twist is to make it timed instead of out based. Give each guy 90 seconds.

toledodan
07-12-2010, 06:24 PM
was voto even asked?

TheNext44
07-12-2010, 06:28 PM
was voto even asked?

I believe he was asked, and like most good hitters, he declined.

Many players claim it ruins your swing for the second half. That's why no one good is in it anymore.

BCubb2003
07-12-2010, 06:33 PM
I know I'd much rather see a skills competition involving throwing accuracy, bat control, fielding, etc. You'd have to avoid things that put guys at too much injury risk (e.g. full sprints), but it would still be more interesting than just watching HR. The derby just isn't exciting anymore and it's actually made worse by the horrible presentation (I'm looking at you Chris Berman.

They used to have a skills competition, then Larkin got hurt.

Big Klu
07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
They used to have a skills competition, then Larkin got hurt.

Yep, lost for the remainder of the 1989 season.

TheNext44
07-12-2010, 06:37 PM
I know I'd much rather see a skills competition involving throwing accuracy, bat control, fielding, etc. You'd have to avoid things that put guys at too much injury risk (e.g. full sprints), but it would still be more interesting than just watching HR. The derby just isn't exciting anymore and it's actually made worse by the horrible presentation (I'm looking at you Chris Berman).

If you do keep it, I think a better version would be a head-to-head playoff with AL on one side, NL on the other and the players seeded by their season-to-date HR totals. That would at least keep with the league format of the ASG.

This year it would be:

Cabrera (1) vs. Swisher (4)
Wells (2) vs. Ortiz (3)

Hart (1) vs. Ramirez (4)
Holliday (2) vs. Young (3)

It's not perfect, but at least it wouldn't be so repetitive. How silly is it that of the top 11 HR hitters in the NL, 6 of whom are All-Stars, only 1 is the in HR derby. If that's not a sign, I don't know what is.

Another potential twist is to make it timed instead of out based. Give each guy 90 seconds.

I loved the skills competion, but after Larkin was injured during one of them, the league over reacted and cancelled the whole thing. I don't see how these competetions are any greater injury risks than the HR derby or the game itself.

Personally, I would prefer eliminating the whole first day activities, and going back to playing the game like it mattered, playing the All-Stars more than an few innings, and worry less about getting everyone into the game. Funny how it became more of an exhibition after they changed it so that it decides home field advantage for the World Series.

RedsManRick
07-12-2010, 06:47 PM
I'm sure many players believe that the Derby puts their swing at risk, but the data haven't really borne it out.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/another-look-at-the-home-run-derby-hangover-effect/


What we see is that the Home Run Derby participants and our control group have identical first-half home run rates and nearly identical second-half home run rates. They differed significantly in 2008 (Lance Berkman, Dan Uggla, Chase Utley, and Grady Sizemore all had steep declines), but that's the only real outlier here. On the whole, we again find that the Home Run Derby has no effect on a player's second half. And with more than 20,000 at-bats in each bucket, our sample size is pretty large.


So where has this theory come from?

While the theory doesn't appear to be true, we're still likely to hear about it from the mainstream media over the next few hours and days. Why do some in the media seem to believe this? Here are a few possible reasons:

Selection bias!: Those selected to participated in the Derby likely overperformed in the first half, so second-half regression to the mean is viewed by the uninformed as a decline rather than what it actually is—mere normalization.
2008: As noted earlier, 2008 seemed to "prove" the theory in a big way, and it was just two years ago, so people are going to remember.
Raw totals: Because the true 50 percent mark often occurs a couple of weeks before the All-Star break, "first half" totals can look inflated if compared directly to "second half" totals.
The media: Many love to use anecdotal evidence. For every 2005 Bobby Abreu there are 10 2009 Nelson Cruzes, but those pushing the "Derby effect" mention only Abreu.
Outspoken players: Reporters are a lot more likely to listen to players than look at numbers, and when players start blaming the Derby for second-half struggles, it's an easy story to run with. Also, the players that do speak out have incentive to do so. If they have a poor half-year, that could hurt when it comes time to sign a new contract. Whether the Derby actually affected their swing or not, it makes sense to use it as an excuse for poor numbers.
Snowball effect: Once players start talking and complaining, it makes other players less likely to want to participate and draws more attention to the situation, creating a snowball effect.

RedsManRick
07-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I loved the skills competion, but after Larkin was injured during one of them, the league over reacted and cancelled the whole thing. I don't see how these competetions are any greater injury risks than the HR derby or the game itself.

I don't remember this at all. What happened?

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2010, 06:57 PM
I guess I'm of the few that likes HR Derby.

UKFlounder
07-12-2010, 07:24 PM
Hurt his elbow making a relay throw, IIRC.

It just sucks to lose a player in an exhibition (remember Robert Edwards, the NE football player who destroyed his knee in sand football a few years ago too?)

I like the All-Star game still, but canceling it & using those 3 days to help the season send/postseason begin a bit earlier might not be a bad idea.

You could still name a team for each league to honor guys who deserve it and then you wouldn't have to worry about "1 player from each team"


I don't remember this at all. What happened?

RBA
07-12-2010, 07:24 PM
I know. Let's have all the pitchers throw as hard as they can and clock it. Have them pitch a 100 pitches and the one with the overall highest speed average wins. Also, another award for the fastest single pitch.












note: sarcasm

reds44
07-12-2010, 07:40 PM
I just want to see a derby at GABP. That would be epic.

Redsfan320
07-12-2010, 07:47 PM
^^^
I thought the same thing earlier today.

320

RichRed
07-12-2010, 07:49 PM
Personally, I would prefer eliminating the whole first day activities, and going back to playing the game like it mattered, playing the All-Stars more than an few innings, and worry less about getting everyone into the game. Funny how it became more of an exhibition after they changed it so that it decides home field advantage for the World Series.

I've wanted this for some time. Expanding the rosters was the exact opposite of what they should've done, in my opinion.

mbgrayson
07-12-2010, 07:50 PM
I guess I'm of the few that likes HR Derby.

I used to never like the HR derby, but I still watch. Josh Hamilton's performance a couple(?) years ago won me over. That was amazing.

I agree that it is a menaingless thing, but there is no other baseball on to watch tonight.....lol.

Reds Fanatic
07-12-2010, 07:55 PM
To me the main problem with the HR derby is it drags on too long. It is ok in short doses but it gets pretty boring after awhile. I find it funny that ESPN always has it listed as being 2 hours. Most years the first round alone takes almost that long. To me the HR derby is much like the slam dunk championship in the NBA. It was exciting and entertaining for a while but it is basically become old and kind of boring.

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Yes, the MLB Home Run Derby has become a joke...but this is even worse...http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=9907833&topic_id=11915278

nate
07-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Chris Berman is really insufferable announcing the thing.

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2010, 07:58 PM
Yes, the MLB Home Run Derby has become a joke...but this is even worse...http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=9907833&topic_id=11915278

Again, I must be the only one, but I enjoy watching the celebrity softball game. I enjoy all of the All-Star game festivities.

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Chris Berman is really insufferable announcing the thing.

back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back.....

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 08:01 PM
hey, i admit some of this is because of my getting older and grouchiness...but me and a buddy stayed for the celeb game after the futures game in detroit...we left after two tortuous innings...

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 08:03 PM
oh dear lord...the HR Derby is on the radio too...http://espn.go.com/espnradio/

does anyone really listen to it?

BCubb2003
07-12-2010, 08:08 PM
oh dear lord...the HR Derby is on the radio too...http://espn.go.com/espnradio/

does anyone really listen to it?

Is there a game thread?

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Is there a game thread?

lol....what the hell...i ll do a chat if anyone is interested....just dont expect any optimism...:D

redsfan1966
07-12-2010, 08:14 PM
uhh...yeah, there is a game thread on here...

Unassisted
07-12-2010, 10:19 PM
does anyone really listen to it?
We have two sports talk stations in town. When I was on my way home tonight, the Fox Sports station guys were discussing the fact that the HR Derby was on TV and griping about who wasn't in it. I pushed the button on the car radio to the ESPN station, because I thought it made more sense to actually listen to the event than to listen to griping about it. :D

TheNext44
07-12-2010, 10:35 PM
I'd rather watch reruns of the original "Home Run Derby."

http://pauljlane.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/image13-2.jpg

I loved that show.

Great format. One on one, three outs an inning, most homers after nine wins. The only mistake they made was filming it an empty stadium, so it lacked the excitement of today's derby. I would love it if they went back to that format, like RMR was suggesting, one on one, NL v. AL, for three innings, three outs an inning, and move on bracket style.

RBA
07-12-2010, 10:41 PM
We have two sports talk stations in town. When I was on my way home tonight, the Fox Sports station guys were discussing the fact that the HR Derby was on TV and griping about who wasn't in it. I pushed the button on the car radio to the ESPN station, because I thought it made more sense to actually listen to the event than to listen to griping about it. :D

Fox Sports been griping about a lot of what's on ESPN lately, The World Cup, The Lebron Decision, and now the Home Run Derby. A little jealous?

reds1869
07-12-2010, 10:55 PM
I finally just turned it off. I'm amazed that the same network responsible for the smooth production of the World Cup is responsible for this broadcast. Boomer is truly painful and Morgan isn't much better.

paintmered
07-12-2010, 11:27 PM
I finally just turned it off. I'm amazed that the same network responsible for the smooth production of the World Cup is responsible for this broadcast. Boomer is truly painful and Morgan isn't much better.

Pretty much. For an event that's supposedly all about fun, it fails miserably. I'd rather watch summer league NBA than this. And I can't stand the NBA.

macro
07-13-2010, 01:59 AM
Chris Berman is really insufferable announcing the thing.

Berman has been a caricature of himself for several years, but it was painfully obvious to me when he called the Reds game a few nights ago. He seems very dated.

TheNext44
07-13-2010, 04:25 AM
Berman has been a caricature of himself for several years, but it was painfully obvious to me when he called the Reds game a few nights ago. He seems very dated.

Berman Dated? I'm not sure what you mean.

http://taoofbachelorhood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/chris-berman.jpg

nate
07-13-2010, 09:19 AM
Berman has been a caricature of himself for several years, but it was painfully obvious to me when he called the Reds game a few nights ago. He seems very dated.

They should do a "HR call derby" to go with it.

I'd watch it if only to hear:

"It's gonna beeeeeeeeeeeee..........GONE!!!!"

:cool:

cumberlandreds
07-13-2010, 09:25 AM
I guess I'm of the few that likes HR Derby.

I like it too only of the true sluggers are there. Not like last night. I had no interest in who they had last night and didn't watch.

Jpup
07-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I used to love it, but last night killed it for me. Berman is terrible at baseball and about as bad at everything else. There wasn't a single guy I cared about and one can only tolerate David Ortiz for so long. Josh Hamilton killed the home run derby too. I don't think anyone can duplicate the excitement that he created. Everybody else has been a let down to me.

Put it on MLB Network with Costas or Vasgersian and maybe I'll watch again. I think I made it an hour last night.

REDREAD
07-13-2010, 12:01 PM
I don't remember this at all. What happened?

I think the competition was involved Larkin throwing as hard as he could, and he messed up his elbow. It was some kind of skill competition involving throwing.

RichRed
07-13-2010, 12:12 PM
I didn't watch but how long was the Home Run Derby, 3-hours plus? That's longer than an actual game, which just seems ridiculous to me.

Redsfan320
07-13-2010, 12:13 PM
About 2 1/2 hours, plus the trophy pres.

320

Reds Fanatic
07-13-2010, 12:15 PM
I think the competition was involved Larkin throwing as hard as he could, and he messed up his elbow. It was some kind of skill competition involving throwing.

It was a relay throw competition they had at the 1989 All Star skills competition. At the time Larkin was leading the league with a .342 batting average and he tore his ligament in his elbow and missed the rest of the season.

mdccclxix
07-13-2010, 01:57 PM
I don't ask for much out of the HR derby, so I'm not disappointed. It's mainly for kids, all sophistication is gone, so I don't really complain about it. I like some of the other format ideas stated in this thread and think they could really give it a boost.

I thought Cabrera and Hanley, both in their prime, were amazing to watch, personally.

RedsManRick
07-13-2010, 02:38 PM
It was a relay throw competition they had at the 1989 All Star skills competition. At the time Larkin was leading the league with a .342 batting average and he tore his ligament in his elbow and missed the rest of the season.

Ah -- I did't really start paying close attention until 1990 and am not the great historian. Thanks.

smith288
07-14-2010, 04:54 PM
Yes, the MLB Home Run Derby has become a joke...but this is even worse...http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=9907833&topic_id=11915278


Ahem...

http://newsroom.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/finchspot_281.jpg

*meow*

LincolnparkRed
07-14-2010, 06:25 PM
Berman has been a caricature of himself for several years, but it was painfully obvious to me when he called the Reds game a few nights ago. He seems very dated.

I had fun with his outfit. Joe and Bobby had nice dress shirts and ties, Berman has a short sleeved dress shirt and a tie. Two guys look really professional and the guy that makes the most $$$ is dressed like a bad used car salesman.

RichRed
07-14-2010, 06:36 PM
I had fun with his outfit. Joe and Bobby had nice dress shirts and ties, Berman has a short sleeved dress shirt and a tie. Two guys look really professional and the guy that makes the most $$$ is dressed like a bad used car salesman.

The outfit suits him.

LincolnparkRed
07-14-2010, 06:53 PM
The outfit suits him.

Don't know if you have read the stuff that Deadspin has run on him, but even though I think his act was old 10 years ago, I almost have more respect for him because of the whole "You're with me leather" incident. Could try and work what you got while you can get it.

GAC
07-14-2010, 06:59 PM
I haven't watched it in countless years. It's a joke IMO. Nothing like watching a pitching coach soft toss a baseball approximately 65 mph to see how far the big lugs can hit it.

Maybe that's why some guys aren't ever in it..... they can't hit a changeup! :D

durl
07-14-2010, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't miss it if were to be dumped.

I have to admit that seeing Hamilton smack 28 homers was amazing. I would have been fitting for that to have been the finale of the Derby. Let it fade away from the All-Star festivities, but bring back the Home Run Derby television show on MLB Network in the off-season.