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membengal
08-08-2010, 09:05 AM
mth, their ERA at this point is under 4.00 as a team.

I guess I don't get the "concern". Certain posters have been crying about the poor pitching from day one, and their team ERA is under 4.00 the second week of August. No, they don't have a hammer of the gods at the top, but it may be enough to get them to the playoffs anyway. Which is more than a lot of us dared to hope to start the year. And I don't get the constant lamenting that this team lacks the TOR hammer. We all know it. It's not going to change for now. The Reds counter that with really fine top to bottom depth.

Whatever else happens from here to the end of the year, their pitching has been quite competent this year. It just has.

They may blow up from here, I suppose, but that doesn't make the constant dire prediction making right.

HokieRed
08-08-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm completely positive about the club but I agree with mth that innings are going to be an issue--first with Leake (they already are, IMO), then with Wood. We are going to need Bailey, Volquez, and Harang to pick it up in a major way and I wouldn't even be surprised to see a couple starts from Sam LeCure before it's over. The injuries to Bailey, Volquez, and Harang might just have a silver lining. And I'd also be trying to stretch Chapman back out to 3 so that he can go 5 or so by the third week in Sept.

membengal
08-08-2010, 09:28 AM
Again, they have enviable depth. Leake should be backed off, and, as luck would have it, Homer is ready.

I don't agree that Wood needs to be backed off, frankly. He's thrown a LOT of innings in his career to this point. and should be able to go to 200 easily.

And, if he does need to be backed off, Harang isn't that far away.

They have enviable depth, far better than every other team in the chase I think. It helps to cover for their lack of a solid ace at the top of the rotation.

I just think it would be nice if that was something that this board appreciated more often.

HokieRed
08-08-2010, 10:07 AM
I wouldn't be backing off Wood yet, but he's at 142.2 now, he goes today, and there are 50 games left after today. That'd be 10 starts for Wood if he takes his turn every time; that's pushing him (assuming he goes the kind of distance we'd want) toward 215-220. I see it as an issue by mid-Sept, especially since I this this kid's a big key to the future.

membengal
08-08-2010, 10:24 AM
Maybe. But, again, Wood had thrown a LOT of minor league innings building up to this. 600+ in his career, and a full season last year.

I am not gonna worry over him at this juncture, myself.

And, in reserve to pick up Leake and, if need be, Wood, remain Bailey, Harang, Maloney and Lecure.

No hammers there, but quality arms to help get them through September in a hoped for playoff push.

It doesn't fix match-up problems should they make the playoffs, but I don't see it hindering their playoff run.

And if they do make the playoffs, regardless, this teams hopes are going to rest on Arroyo/Cueto/Volquez, likely, for better or worse. That doesn't match-up with what the Giants/Cards/Braves/Phillies can throw in a short series, but that isn't getting fixed now anyway.

Scrap Irony
08-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I know, I miss him. :(

But he's not the only one. There were a group of negative naysayers who have been suspiciously absent from this board since the Reds started winning after April 24th.

Yep.

For all their talk about how they only wanted a competitive team that would win, hit, pitch et al, many of those posters have been conspicuously absent from the discussion.

At the same time, I'd love to know what Abner, Steel, princeton, and especially SpringField think of this season. Unfortunately, it seems as if they've stopped writing now that things look rosier. They all still visit the site, but rarely ever post. If, in fact, at all.

At least FCB sticks around long enough to eat some crow.

jojo
08-08-2010, 11:23 AM
Is it really necessary to call people out? There's been some pretty heinous mischaracterizations of posting histories recently and frankly Argumentum ad hominem never elevates a discussion.

edabbs44
08-08-2010, 11:50 AM
Is it really necessary to call people out? There's been some pretty heinous mischaracterizations of posting histories recently and frankly Argumentum ad hominem never elevates a discussion.

Two sides of it here. One, sure it doesn't bring much to the board. Just causes animosity and is pretty juvenile.

However, the amt of BS that some people posted for years was pretty ridiculous. Some of it was complete nonsense. And the fact that certain people hardly ever post here makes you wonder if they were ever here for the right reasons. This board should be buzzing with excitement and, for the most part, it is. If you are a Reds fan, historically posted here quite often and aren't posting now, it shows us something. That is barring the obvious extenuating circumstances, of course. And, when you think about it, could be viewed as being more juvenile than calling them out. Swallow your pride and cheer this team on.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-08-2010, 11:53 AM
At the same time, I'd love to know what Abner, Steel, princeton, and especially SpringField think of this season. Unfortunately, it seems as if they've stopped writing now that things look rosier.

Steel took a break a long time ago. I don't think the Reds winning has anything to do with it. He wasn't a negative poster. If anything, he educated many posters, including myself, on the stats (SABR) part of the game.

Frankly, I think he got sick of the bickering and I miss his participation on this board. Same with Stormy and M2. They were three posters that I very much enjoyed and always made sure to read everything they posted. Always good stuff.

BRM
08-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Steel took a break a long time ago. I don't think the Reds winning has anything to do with it. He wasn't a negative poster. If anything, he educated many posters, including myself, on the stats (SABR) part of the game.

Frankly, I think he got sick of the bickering and I miss his participation on this board. Same with Stormy and M2. They were three posters that I very much enjoyed and always made sure to read everything they posted. Always good stuff.

Agree completely. All three of them basically stopped posting back when the team sucked. They didn't just walk away from here in the last month or two when the team started playing well. Maybe they all have better things to do with their time these days? I don't know. But I do know that none of the three you mentioned were "negative" posters. Not in my eyes anyway.

Scrap Irony
08-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Is it really necessary to call people out? There's been some pretty heinous mischaracterizations of posting histories recently and frankly Argumentum ad hominem never elevates a discussion.

I suppose I'm confused here. I didn't want to say some, for the possibility that nate (and others) would argue about some not being all. So I got specific.

SpringFields insisted the offense would be horrid. Putrid, in fact. He and I argued ad nauseum about this offense's potential. He then argued about how Dusty would find a way to screw it up, the pitching staff was really bad, and that other NL Central squads were much improved.

He was wrong.

Seriously wrong.

Where is he?

Not here.

Last season, Abner and I argued about the future of the Reds. He said there was none. He mentioned Epic Fail over and over and over and over. He insisted that if this team were to get better, he'd be more positive.

He was wrong.

Seriously wrong.

Where is he?

Not here.

princeton told me (and others) we were delusional for thinking Cincinnati had hope, that its farm system had pitching. Same with steel. While they've been absent posters for longer than have Abner and SpringField, I'd love to know what they think of ths team and its future now.

I geniunely want to know these posters opinions on this team. Instead, they're absent.

I think it odd. Extremely so, considering the amount of posting that went on during the lost decade and that each professed his fanaticism for the Cincinnati squad.

jojo
08-08-2010, 05:00 PM
Why not send them a PM and ask?

Scrap Irony
08-08-2010, 05:02 PM
You're right. That would have perhaps been more effective. I'm not one to use PMs all that much and frankly didn't think of it.

KronoRed
08-08-2010, 05:10 PM
If you are a Reds fan, historically posted here quite often and aren't posting now, it shows us something.

That their lives don't revolve around a message board?

Seriously, it shows nothing, threads like this do sure do though, I could name off 20 posters right now who don't post very often anymore and they were always some of the most positives ones around.

Why aren't you guys posting about the good Reds team instead of tyring to find guys you can say "Ha! told ya so..you be a loser"?

WVRedsFan
08-08-2010, 05:45 PM
I really miss Red Storm aka Stormy and many others, but life changes and some folks move on. I hope all the ones mentioned are enjoying the Reds and just aren't posting because they have more on their plate than they can handle right now.

BTW, wonder whatever happened to Creek? She was so active and then just disappeared.

edabbs44
08-08-2010, 08:46 PM
That their lives don't revolve around a message board?

Seriously, it shows nothing, threads like this do sure do though, I could name off 20 posters right now who don't post very often anymore and they were always some of the most positives ones around.

Why aren't you guys posting about the good Reds team instead of tyring to find guys you can say "Ha! told ya so..you be a loser"?

I post plenty about the good Reds team.

Their lives don't need to revolve around this board. Some were here plenty when the Reds weren't very good and they had plenty of time in their lives to post time and time again about this team. And some of these posters still visit here and post from time to time about different things. Just not about the Reds.

Doesn't really bother me either way, but it is an interesting turn of events.

Topcat
08-08-2010, 09:11 PM
Steel took a break a long time ago. I don't think the Reds winning has anything to do with it. He wasn't a negative poster. If anything, he educated many posters, including myself, on the stats (SABR) part of the game.

Frankly, I think he got sick of the bickering and I miss his participation on this board. Same with Stormy and M2. They were three posters that I very much enjoyed and always made sure to read everything they posted. Always good stuff.


I second that . Steel is missed and was a great poster and well educated fan.:thumbup:

wally post
08-08-2010, 09:17 PM
If you don't know why Creek left then you are part of the reason she left.
I feel sorry for those of you who feel the need to call out those who you believe were wrong so that you can be acknowledged as being right. In my opinion, there are far more interesting and/or constructive places to flaunt one's ego than on Redszone. There. I've said it.

Rojo
08-08-2010, 10:16 PM
If you don't know why Creek left then you are part of the reason she left.

??

Slyder
08-08-2010, 10:42 PM
I still think we're making a mistake using him in the rotation in the middle of a pennant race and still think we should have attempted to package some of the similar cogs we have on the 40 for a middle of the rotation arm for the playoff run and let Bailey and Volquez come back slowly and prove themselves before being thrust into the rotation.

mth123
08-09-2010, 01:47 AM
I still think we're making a mistake using him in the rotation in the middle of a pennant race and still think we should have attempted to package some of the similar cogs we have on the 40 for a middle of the rotation arm for the playoff run and let Bailey and Volquez come back slowly and prove themselves before being thrust into the rotation.

:thumbup:

TRF
08-09-2010, 11:44 AM
for those wondering about naysayers... I'm still here.

Despite a hot week, I think Gomes is actually a pretty bad player.

Bruce has been abysmal. I wouldn't trade him or option him, but he's been pretty bad for a while.

I think my stance on Stubbs is pretty well known. I though he could turn it around as a power hitter. Sadly, he's been better than Bruce this year.

Paul Janish is now the starting SS. I wanted him there, but it's a crapshoot at best.

Some facts that need to be faced. The Reds are fortunate enough to play in a division with the Astros, Pirates, and Cubs. Leake was lucky early on and has either hit a wall or has been figured out. Volquez needs more match-ups like his last outing to be successful. Wood is a rookie, and while he is pitching well, NO ONE has any idea if he'll hold up.

I don't think the Reds are a bad team. I do subscribe to the theory that the year picks you, and I think this might be that year for the Reds. This team has one uber talent: Joey Votto. The secondary players have been relatively healthy and are enjoying career years. (Rolen, Phillips)

But i wouldn't say the rest of the position players are lights out better than any other team.

To me, the pen is the most intriguing aspect. It took a while to find its identity, but Rhodes/Massett/Ondrusek/Smith have been pretty dominant the last couple of months. The pen has depth too. DRH and Chapman are both pitching well in Louisville.

None of those guys "called out" are any less Reds fans than the homers that think they will win every game. M2 at one point thought Osvaldo Fernandez might be the ace of the Reds staff quite a few years ago. They were optimistic that the Reds could piece together enough pitching to go with a dominant offense. It didn't happen, but these guys posted optimistic posts during some awful seasons pimping guys like Fernandez, Alex Ochoa, Dunn, Casey, Reese, Boone, Dessens et al.

But i guess posts that go "nanny nanny boo boo" are far more entertaining.

I see a flaw, I point it out. I see success, I point it out. Gomes is a flaw (though once again, white hot right now) Heisey is success in the making. That's how I see it.