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OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 07:48 PM
Devin Mesoraco is 1-for-1 with a single in his first atbat.

VR
07-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Devin Mesoraco is 1-for-1 with a single in his first atbat.

Not sure if there has been discussion anywhere, but is there a chance Mesoraco has found some cream or lotion since last year? I dont' recall seeing a player improving their OPS by .300 over their previous year.....while moving higher up.

Havent' seen him in person, but curious what the minor league experts think.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 08:15 PM
Mesoraco triples in his second atbat. He's now 2-for-2 with a triple.

membengal
07-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Not sure if there has been discussion anywhere, but is there a chance Mesoraco has found some cream or lotion since last year? I dont' recall seeing a player improving their OPS by .300 over their previous year.....while moving higher up.

Havent' seen him in person, but curious what the minor league experts think.

He's healthy, VR. No more bad thumbs. No need to think the worst.

VR
07-16-2010, 08:22 PM
He's healthy, VR. No more bad thumbs. No need to think the worst.

3 years of bad thumbs?

membengal
07-16-2010, 08:24 PM
That's what the team has said.

He repeated high A ball to start the year, and crushed to a tune of 1.035 OPS in 158 at-bats, so he had success at A ball this year building on last year. He has now carried that to AA.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 08:26 PM
3 years of bad thumbs?

High school catcher from a cold weather state. It takes HS catchers a while to develop, especially when you factor in he played in a cold weather state and didn't get a chance to play in as many games as a kid from Florida or California.

VR
07-16-2010, 08:29 PM
High school catcher from a cold weather state. It takes HS catchers a while to develop, especially when you factor in he played in a cold weather state and didn't get a chance to play in as many games as a kid from Florida or California.

I'm all for it, just seeing if there has been any speculation before. Does any other player come to mind that has had that type of improvement over a 3 yr career trend like that?

membengal
07-16-2010, 08:34 PM
Seriously, VR, check out the Mes threads in the minor league forum. A lot of this has been hashed over. He has comps. Including comps who started slowly and then caught fire. One comp is uber-prospect Carlos Santana. Given the nature of the position he plays, and how hard the defense is to get right, this is not as rare as it would seem.

VR
07-16-2010, 08:44 PM
Seriously, VR, check out the Mes threads in the minor league forum. A lot of this has been hashed over. He has comps. Including comps who started slowly and then caught fire. One comp is uber-prospect Carlos Santana. Given the nature of the position he plays, and how hard the defense is to get right, this is not as rare as it would seem.

I know it may not be rare, but would like to know others that you guys have seen. Santana had good years, then dropped off, then bouned back.

Mes was out of nowhere.

membengal
07-16-2010, 08:47 PM
I am dead serious. Read the threads, I can't recall it now but we've had this discussion. Mes did not "come out of nowhere". He was a former first round draftpick with plus skills that made him so. People have been uber-impatient with him, but he was straight out of high school and learning a tough gig, the bat can take awhile. By all accounts, he is putting both the defense and the offense together.

But I guess I am a bit salty over open musings over PEDs. They are tested all the time in the minors. It just seems awfully unfair to me to do so.

Perhaps the easier explanation is that his skill set that made him a #1 was legit, and he is starting to realize those skills a bit.

membengal
07-16-2010, 08:51 PM
VR...here is a thread where some minor league numbers of catchers who have had major league success were discussed...look at pages 3 and 4:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83408&highlight=Posada&page=3

VR
07-16-2010, 08:57 PM
I am dead serious. Read the threads, I can't recall it now but we've had this discussion. Mes did not "come out of nowhere". He was a former first round draftpick with plus skills that made him so. People have been uber-impatient with him, but he was straight out of high school and learning a tough gig, the bat can take awhile. By all accounts, he is putting both the defense and the offense together.

But I guess I am a bit salty over open musings over PEDs. They are tested all the time in the minors. It just seems awfully unfair to me to do so.

Perhaps the easier explanation is that his skill set that made him a #1 was legit, and he is starting to realize those skills a bit.

easy mem, we're on the same side here.....:)
Thanks for the thread link, I'll give it a look

GIDP
07-16-2010, 08:59 PM
Not sure if there has been discussion anywhere, but is there a chance Mesoraco has found some cream or lotion since last year? I dont' recall seeing a player improving their OPS by .300 over their previous year.....while moving higher up.

Havent' seen him in person, but curious what the minor league experts think.

It happens all the time.

VR
07-16-2010, 09:01 PM
It happens all the time.

Awesome....names?

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 09:03 PM
Chapman just entered in relief and struck out the first batter on three pitches.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 09:05 PM
Juan Francisco leads off the 7th inning with his 11th HR.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 09:06 PM
Awesome....names?

Carlos Santana was a catcher who did it almost exactly like Mesoraco.

Age 21 in A ball .688 OPS
Age 22 in A to AA ball .999

First one off the top of my head.

VR
07-16-2010, 09:10 PM
Carlos Santana was a catcher who did it almost exactly like Mesoraco.

Age 21 in A ball .688 OPS
Age 22 in A to AA ball .999

First one off the top of my head.

I'm seeing
.823
.815
.688
.999


Two good years, one horrible, one great.


Horrible horrible horrible, great is Mes.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 09:15 PM
I'm seeing
.823
.815
.688
.999


Two good years, one horrible, one great.


Horrible horrible horrible, great is Mes.

I dont' recall seeing a player improving their OPS by .300 over their previous year.....while moving higher up.
You also asked that, I gave you an answer. He probably is roiding though. Its not like they test for those types of things. Its getting pretty pathetic when it comes to how far someone will go to talk trash on a player. I dont know your post history on Mesoraco but in general how low people go some times is disgusting.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 09:22 PM
WOW. Aroldis Chapman has flat out dominated tonight:

1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K, 14 pitches/12 strikes.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Here's a little breakdown of Chapman's outing.

Chris Duffy - 3 pitch K
Ozzie Chavez - Struck out looking on a 1-2 pitch
Dominic Brown - 3 pitch K
Andy Tracy - Struck out swinging on a 1-2 pitch

Duffy and Tracy for former big leaguers and Brown is one of the top 3 prospects in the minor leagues. IMO, that is Chapman's most impressive outing of the season.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 09:52 PM
Carolina in a rain delay.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 10:08 PM
They are taking the tarp off apparently, also jamming to the theme song from Top Gun :laugh:

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2010, 10:23 PM
Junior Arias singled and scored in his first atbat.

Correa: 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K

GIDP
07-16-2010, 10:25 PM
Mudcats game is going to start up soon.

mace
07-16-2010, 10:25 PM
Chris Dickerson went 2 for 3 in the Bats' 7-3 victory.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 10:28 PM
Mudcats tie it up on a FC by Terrero

mace
07-16-2010, 10:29 PM
James Avery, pitching for Lynchburg tonight--the dude has bounced around a bit this year--threw 8 innings of 2-hit, no-walk, shutout ball. Justin Freeman closed out the 4-0 win. Jordan Wideman had a pair of doubles.

mace
07-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Andrew Means and Henry Rodriguez each have three hits for Dayton, which leads 8-7 after six.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 10:31 PM
End of 8 in for the Mudcats. 3-3 tie game.

GIDP
07-16-2010, 10:35 PM
Perez just had a nice play apparently to snag a ball in the gap.

mace
07-16-2010, 10:35 PM
The DSL Reds scored 10--I said 10--runs in the bottom of the 8th to beat the Orioles, 13-9. In over 150 PAs, 19-year-old first baseman Carlos Sanchez has a .478 OBP.

mace
07-16-2010, 11:11 PM
Clayton Shunick has another strong start going--6 innings, no runs, 6 K. Billings leads 3-0. Dayne Read and Jonathan Kaskow each has two hits, and each is batting .328.

mace
07-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Jonathan Correa has fanned six in the first three innings for the ASL Reds, who lead 4-1.

mace
07-16-2010, 11:40 PM
Correa now has 10 K in 5 innings. David Vidal has homered for the ASL Reds, and it's 5-1.

corkedbat
07-16-2010, 11:50 PM
3 years of bad thumbs?

Two thumbs up! :thumbup::thumbup: :D

mace
07-16-2010, 11:54 PM
Correa now has 10 K in 5 innings. David Vidal has homered for the ASL Reds, and it's 5-1.

Vidal now has 2 homers, and it's 8-1. Correa's finished after 5 innings.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 12:38 AM
David Vidal added a Grand Slam to go along with his solo HR and 3-run HR. What a night for Vidal: 3-for-5 with 3 HR and 8 RBI.

Junior Arias: 2-for-4 walk
David Vidal: 3-for-5 3 HR (#2, 3, 4), 8 RBI
Samuel Diaz: 4-for-5

Jonathan Correa: 5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 10 K ... now has 5 BB/29 K in 23.1 IP this season. 19 year old RHP from San Cristobal, Dominican Republic.

RedsFanInBama
07-17-2010, 12:44 AM
You also asked that, I gave you an answer. He probably is roiding though. Its not like they test for those types of things. Its getting pretty pathetic when it comes to how far someone will go to talk trash on a player. I dont know your post history on Mesoraco but in general how low people go some times is disgusting.

TKO to GIDP.

VR
07-17-2010, 12:59 AM
You also asked that, I gave you an answer. He probably is roiding though. Its not like they test for those types of things. Its getting pretty pathetic when it comes to how far someone will go to talk trash on a player. I dont know your post history on Mesoraco but in general how low people go some times is disgusting.

No need to take that approach with it. This is a discussion board, we're discussing.

Mesoraco has gone from 3 years of Wily Taveras to suddenly hitting like Albert Pujols. If it's development/ post injury as a couple have shared, that's great.

I'm not a minor league expert, so trying to get insights from guys like OBM and GOYA who are living in it daily. I still haven't seen anyone with trending like Mes......although I am told it's common. The lack of a similar example isn't proof that he might be juicing...that's purely hyperbole.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 01:01 AM
More on Chapman's outing. Of the 14 pitches he threw tonight, 5 were swings and misses. He showed tonight just how great he can be when he's locating.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 01:06 AM
Billings won 7-6. Billy Hamilton went 2-for-5 with a triple. Yorman Rodriguez and Juan Duran didn't play.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 01:08 AM
From the Louisville Courier-Journal:


Aroldis Chapman (6-6) got the victory -- his first in relief -- striking out all four batters he faced. The left-hander threw 14 pitches, 12 for strikes, and hit 102mph.

"His role has changed," Sweet said of the hot prospect. "The handcuffs have been taken off my hands. Before I was restricted on what I could and could not do with him. ... I will use him now in any situation I dictate that will make us a better baseball team. He's happy with that."


http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100716/SPORTS07/7160385/Bats+rally+to+defeat+Lehigh+Valley++7-3

VR
07-17-2010, 01:14 AM
obm....did you see Chapman, or just follow on the net?

How far do you think he is from getting the call?

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 01:18 AM
obm....did you see Chapman, or just follow on the net?

How far do you think he is from getting the call?

Just followed via gameday. I think he's a lock to be called up in September but I figure we'll see him in August.

VR
07-17-2010, 01:20 AM
Just followed via gameday. I think he's a lock to be called up in September but I figure we'll see him in August.

Can't wait. An exciting time to be a Reds fan.

membengal
07-17-2010, 02:17 AM
Mes' night ended 2 for 3 with a BB. He's up to .310/.366/.655 for a 1.022 OPS at AA since his call-up to Carolina. That's in 116 at-bats (and slightly more plate appearances).

He was 1.035 at high A before his call-up.

membengal
07-17-2010, 02:22 AM
If I have the Wild Card stuff read right, L'ville is within 5.5 games of a Wild Card in the IL. So, as bad as their start to the season was, they still have playoff life.

Juan Francisco's line is up to .280/.316/.540 for a .856 OPS. 11 HR and 16 doubes in 211 at-bats.

membengal
07-17-2010, 02:24 AM
After finishing last in the first half, Carolina is 11-11 to start the second half and just one game back in their division.

CrackerJack
07-17-2010, 02:30 AM
So Juan Fran hits a 3 run homer in the 7th, and a 2 run Hr in the bottom of the ninth to win the game...gets barely a nod here...hmmm (unless I have dates/games wrong or something).

A bat that the Reds could possibly use some time this year. Can his LF defense be any worse than Gomes?

membengal
07-17-2010, 02:42 AM
Thought his walkoff was Thursday night's game, and it was certainly talked about a bit in that thread.

And I just listed his updated stat line right above your post.

ETA:

There is also plenty of recent Francisco chatter here:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83416

dougdirt
07-17-2010, 02:51 AM
I know it may not be rare, but would like to know others that you guys have seen. Santana had good years, then dropped off, then bouned back.

Mes was out of nowhere.

It wasn't out of nowhere at all. Last season his K and walk rates were almost where they are now. His isolated power was well above average for the league/age he was in last year, but since it was the FSL, it was hidden a little bit.

This year the discipline is very similar with a slight upgrade. His power has gone from well above average to elite. For a guy who was hitting for well above average power while being injured, I don't know how big of a surprise it is that he is showing the power he is.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 02:57 AM
The AZL Reds won 19-4.

Junior Arias: 3-for-5 walk, 2 RBI
David Vidal: 3-for-5 3 HR (#2, 3, 4), walk, 8 RBI
Domonic D'Anna: 2-for-4 two doubles, 2 walks
Robert Maddox: 4-for-6 2B, HR (#1), 4 RBI
Samuel Diaz: 4-for-6

Jonathan Correa: 5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 10 K

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=g_box&gid=2010_07_16_cinrok_dodrok_1

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2010, 03:00 AM
Billy Hamilton is now OPSing over .800 with Billings. .295/.376/.442 - .818 OPS in 95 atbats. 6 doubles, 4 triples. He got off to a slow start too. His BB/K ratio is at 9 BB/11 K in July (62 atbats).

GIDP
07-17-2010, 03:07 AM
So Juan Fran hits a 3 run homer in the 7th, and a 2 run Hr in the bottom of the ninth to win the game...gets barely a nod here...hmmm (unless I have dates/games wrong or something).

A bat that the Reds could possibly use some time this year. Can his LF defense be any worse than Gomes?

Not a lot of people, including me so I'm not just saying this to sound sarcastic, think Juan will produce at the major league level enough to warrant being a regular. Althought he could be a good bat off the bench when runners are on because of his willingness to put everything hes got into the swing. Its not a matter of his D being compared to Gomes, its what is his bat compared to Gomes. I dont do the stat work a few people do but if I recall not many people who compare Juan to other players think, with out some major luck falling in his favor, is someone who can be a super productive major league hitter. I hope he can be.

GIDP
07-17-2010, 03:09 AM
Billy Hamilton is now OPSing over .800 with Billings. .295/.376/.442 - .818 OPS in 95 atbats. 6 doubles, 4 triples. He got off to a slow start too. His BB/K ratio is at 9 BB/11 K in July (62 atbats).

Hope it keeps up.

muddie
07-17-2010, 03:29 AM
After finishing last in the first half, Carolina is 11-11 to start the second half and just one game back in their division.

It is very disappointing to see the team come off the break getting swept at home. They were playing very well going into the AS break. Carolina was 7-3 in July until Montgomery got in town. All three games with Montgomery were close but 0-3 is 0-3. The Mudcats are in third place this morning. Chattanooga in for four this weekend. Matt Fairel to kick the series off tonight.

icehole3
07-17-2010, 06:04 AM
obm....did you see Chapman, or just follow on the net?

How far do you think he is from getting the call?

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100715/SPT04/7160360/Chapman-promotion-isn-t-in-the-works


"He hasn't gotten into the routine," Reds general manger Walt Jocketty said. "He's better when he goes one inning. We want him to point where he can go on back-to-back days and go more than one inning."

VR
07-17-2010, 11:54 AM
It wasn't out of nowhere at all. Last season his K and walk rates were almost where they are now. His isolated power was well above average for the league/age he was in last year, but since it was the FSL, it was hidden a little bit.

This year the discipline is very similar with a slight upgrade. His power has gone from well above average to elite. For a guy who was hitting for well above average power while being injured, I don't know how big of a surprise it is that he is showing the power he is.

Thanks Doug. Guys poor performance are often blamed on injuries or lack of full recovery, and it's not very we get to see a Red doing that.

bellhead
07-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Thanks Doug. Guys poor performance are often blamed on injuries or lack of full recovery, and it's not very we get to see a Red doing that.

Your right on I think we are seeing this with Yonder right now he was injured to start the year and has slowly been getting healthy, the better his health the better is lines...