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Hoosier Red
07-17-2010, 02:40 PM
I've gotten myself in a bit of a pickle. I'm going to all three games this weekend which is good, but my ball game companions are the sort of anti-stat types that continue to complain about Dunn's attitude, complain about Griffey being soft, and talk about what a difference all the leadership of Scott Rolen.

It's not that I don't appreciate these things or even disagree entirely with them, but the overload is just too much.

So somebody give me WAR, give me OPS+, give me something statistical to keep my brain straight.

corkedbat
07-17-2010, 02:48 PM
I've gotten myself in a bit of a pickle. I'm going to all three games this weekend which is good, but my ball game companions are the sort of anti-stat types that continue to complain about Dunn's attitude, complain about Griffey being soft, and talk about what a difference all the leadership of Scott Rolen.

It's not that I don't appreciate these things or even disagree entirely with them, but the overload is just too much.

So somebody give me WAR, give me OPS+, give me something statistical to keep my brain straight.

Here's a couple:

* 52% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
* Million-to-one long shots come in nine-out-of-ten times.

:D

durl
07-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Somehow, I doubt that hard numbers would help convince your friends. In many cases like this, people have made up their minds about a player and even if you show them stats to prove your point, you'll get a "yeah, but..." response in return.

Griffey: perennial All-Star and, one of the best to ever play the game. And it's not like he was 25 when he played in Cincy.

Rolen: I believe Rolen HAS made a difference in the clubhouse with his leadership. The team has needed someone like that since Larkin left. Griffey didn't seem to want the job (and shouldn't have been shouldered with it for that case) and there simply wasn't another "Rolen-ish" player on the team, meaning, someone with lots of experience who knew how to relate to players and was willing to say what needed to be said. Not every guy has that makeup. You should ask their friends about their initial reaction to Rolen being signed. A LOT of people thought he was too old and washed up...perhaps they did, too.

If the Reds had made the playoffs with Dunn and Griffey on the team and having the same statistics, most wouldn't accuse Griffey of being soft or Dunn of having a bad attitude. I believe people just wanted to be able to place blame and the high-profile players have a target on their back.

...just my rambling opinion.

Hoosier Red
07-17-2010, 05:19 PM
Oh no, I know it won't help. It's more a matter of reading some statistical breakdown of anything before my brain turns into a zombie.

Doesn't even have to be about those guys.

BCubb2003
07-17-2010, 05:55 PM
Just tell them they never should have gotten rid of Rosales -- now there was a hustler.

Then relax and enjoy the game.

jojo
07-17-2010, 06:48 PM
Here's one-100% of the time you find something, it was in the last place you looked.

redsmetz
07-18-2010, 09:02 AM
Hoosier Red, I'm probably considered "anti-stat" on RZ (I'm not, just everything seems like a jumble to me and at times "lifeless"), but I never had the a bad feelings thinking Dunn had a bad attitude (the guy flat out produced and played a lot of games day in and day out). As for Griffey, bad circumstances, unfortunate injuries and management that pocketed the deferred payments to him instead of building a team. Connect that to the difference Rolen has made and recognize that Griffey and Rolen are apples to oranges, that it never was in KGJ's manner to be that type of a "leader" and the previously mentioned absence of any other such types with the club during his years, he didn't stand much of a chance.

But if you must have some WAR and OPS+ to go into battle with, throw these numbers in your talisman bag, use 3.1 and 154. They're as good as any other numbers.

Most of all, tell your friends to stop listening to the talking heads and just enjoy the game.