PDA

View Full Version : Maloney to Louisville



Ron Madden
07-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Maloney sent down. per JFAY.

Ron Madden
07-17-2010, 05:47 PM
Can a Mod please put a space between the o and the L of this title?

Thanks.

Raisor
07-17-2010, 06:47 PM
do we know who was removed from the 40 man roster?

membengal
07-17-2010, 06:47 PM
Lincoln to 60-day DL.

alexad
07-18-2010, 10:09 AM
Maloney is the odd man out. He will become trade bait. Lincoln will never pitch again for the Reds.

TRF
07-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Maloney is the Danny Dorn of the Bats rotation. All he does is win.

meh, at least he's looked good in the Reds rotation his last 5 starts going back to last year. Value is value. If another team doesn't balk at his inclusion and it brings the Reds REAL talent at an area of need, LF, SS then ok.

bucksfan2
07-19-2010, 03:05 PM
Maloney is the Danny Dorn of the Bats rotation. All he does is win.

meh, at least he's looked good in the Reds rotation his last 5 starts going back to last year. Value is value. If another team doesn't balk at his inclusion and it brings the Reds REAL talent at an area of need, LF, SS then ok.

Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez, Wood, Leake, and Bailey > Maloney. Unfortunately for Maloney if he were with the Reds 5 years ago he would be the #3 pitcher in the rotation. As for right now he provides this club depth.

kaldaniels
07-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Are there any Maloney pimps left on here...it seems like some have been yearning for him to become a regular in the rotation...been quiet on that front lately.

TRF
07-19-2010, 03:18 PM
I'll likely get flamed for this...

I don't think Leake is better than Maloney. Leake has been very hittable lately and, and he's been walking a lot of guys lately too. 1 BB in his last two starts, 13 in the four previous to that. Plus he's starting to have the innings pile up. His ceiling MIGHT be higher than Maloney's, but I'm not sure he's the better option 30 days from now. Leake might have 10 starts left in him this year. maybe. He's likely not going to see any work in the postseason.

He isn't a GB machine. his GB/FB ratio is 1.01. GABP can hurt him. Maloney is LH, like Wood, and that has value in the rotation.

No, I am not saying I'd rather have Maloney over Wood. I am saying that all Maloney has ever done at any level is produce, once he's adjusted to said level. He doesn't have to pitch in Safeco or Chavez Ravine to be successful either. The man knows how to get a K, something BTW, Leake does not do well at all.

kaldaniels
07-19-2010, 03:20 PM
I'll likely get flamed for this...

I don't think Leake is better than Maloney. Leake has been very hittable lately and, and he's been walking a lot of guys lately too. 1 BB in his last two starts, 13 in the four previous to that. Plus he's starting to have the innings pile up. His ceiling MIGHT be higher than Maloney's, but I'm not sure he's the better option 30 days from now. Leake might have 10 starts left in him this year. maybe. He's likely not going to see any work in the postseason.

He isn't a GB machine. his GB/FB ratio is 1.01. GABP can hurt him. Maloney is LH, like Wood, and that has value in the rotation.

No, I am not saying I'd rather have Maloney over Wood. I am saying that all Maloney has ever done at any level is produce, once he's adjusted to said level. He doesn't have to pitch in Safeco or Chavez Ravine to be successful either. The man knows how to get a K, something BTW, Leake does not do well at all.

Can't say I am totally on board with you but as I've mentioned before Leake has a 5+ ERA since June 1...I'm concerned.

JaxRed
07-19-2010, 03:21 PM
The 5 starters we have ready to roll (Volquez, Cueto, Wood, Leake, and Arroyo) should be starting above him. But the Reds woulld be wise to get rid of Harang and make Maloney our #6. He does have 3.09 ERA.

TRF
07-19-2010, 03:30 PM
Can't say I am totally on board with you but as I've mentioned before Leake has a 5+ ERA since June 1...I'm concerned.

Honestly, I've been concerned since day one. He's been incredibly lucky to this point, and the league now has a pretty good book on him. I mentioned 1 BB in his last two starts. I neglected to mention 17 hits.

That's a lot. Of course Dusty didn't do him any favors in his last start.

pedro
07-19-2010, 03:38 PM
Not only is Leake better than Maloney, so is Aaron Harang. I find it doubtful that Maloney will ever be anything more than a spot starter / injury replacement in the majors. He just doesn't have a credible "out" pitch.

Chip R
07-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Not only is Leake better than Maloney, so is Aaron Harang. I find it doubtful that Maloney will ever be anything more than a spot starter / injury replacement in the majors. He just doesn't have a credible "out" pitch.


I'm not a big Maloney fan but I was impressed how he handled Philly in Philly last week. I thought the Mets game was good but because he pitched at Citi Field, he was fortunate. I thought the Phils would hit him hard but he pretty much shut them down. I suppose being a left handed pitcher is a pretty big asset.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 03:53 PM
The 5 starters we have ready to roll (Volquez, Cueto, Wood, Leake, and Arroyo) should be starting above him. But the Reds woulld be wise to get rid of Harang and make Maloney our #6. He does have 3.09 ERA.

This is the kind of post I just don't understand. Bailey's ignored, Harang is pushed aside. Aaron's numbers this year have been pretty darned good. He's not a number 1 starter anymore (not sure he ever was a TRUE #1), but he's a solid ML pitcher who still puts up quality starts and eats a ton of innings. As for Bailey, he's had the occasional rough outing, but he's also had the occasional sparkling gem too. Stuff-wise, he's above Wood, Leake, Maloney.

After the first month, Aaron's 5-4 with a 4.2 era. 54 K's / 21 bb's. Obviously not top of the rotation anymore, but hardly worth sneezing at.

And prior to Homer going on the DL he had just thrown 2 back to back nice outings.

BRM
07-19-2010, 03:55 PM
JaxRed's post said "ready to roll" so I assume the intent is healthy, available starters. That's probably why there is no mention of Bailey.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 03:56 PM
Fair point. I overlooked that. My appologies.

But my point still stands somewhat. Those 2 guys DO tend to get brushed aside too easily here IMO.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:03 PM
Not only is Leake better than Maloney, so is Aaron Harang. I find it doubtful that Maloney will ever be anything more than a spot starter / injury replacement in the majors. He just doesn't have a credible "out" pitch.

He's never had a problem getting a K in the minors at any level. IMO he's like a LH version of Harang.


This is the kind of post I just don't understand. Bailey's ignored, Harang is pushed aside. Aaron's numbers this year have been pretty darned good. He's not a number 1 starter anymore (not sure he ever was a TRUE #1), but he's a solid ML pitcher who still puts up quality starts and eats a ton of innings. As for Bailey, he's had the occasional rough outing, but he's also had the occasional sparkling gem too. Stuff-wise, he's above Wood, Leake, Maloney.

After the first month, Aaron's 5-4 with a 4.2 era. 54 K's / 21 bb's. Obviously not top of the rotation anymore, but hardly worth sneezing at.

And prior to Homer going on the DL he had just thrown 2 back to back nice outings.

Bailey can't be counted on for anything at this point. He hasn't had a decent two game stretch this year. Simply awful. Let him compete for a rotation spot next year, get his rehab assignment going in late August. If he can't get AAA hitters out, shut him down.

pedro
07-19-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm not a big Maloney fan but I was impressed how he handled Philly in Philly last week. I thought the Mets game was good but because he pitched at Citi Field, he was fortunate. I thought the Phils would hit him hard but he pretty much shut them down. I suppose being a left handed pitcher is a pretty big asset.

I think he'd get murdered in GABP.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 04:09 PM
Bailey can't be counted on for anything at this point. He hasn't had a decent two game stretch this year. Simply awful. Let him compete for a rotation spot next year, get his rehab assignment going in late August. If he can't get AAA hitters out, shut him down.

Ummm...his last 2 starts.

May 12: 9 ip / 4 hits / 0 runs / 6 k / 0 bb / complete game shutout on 90 pitches
May 18: 7 ip / 4 hits / 2 runs / 4 k / 2 bb / 1 hr
May 23: Game he was injured.

Not to mention his final 9 starts last season. He's stated that he tends to start out slowly, and that seems to be the case. He seems to get stronger as the season progresses.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:17 PM
Ummm...his last 2 starts.

May 12: 9 ip / 4 hits / 0 runs / 6 k / 0 bb / complete game shutout on 90 pitches
May 18: 7 ip / 4 hits / 2 runs / 4 k / 2 bb / 1 hr
May 23: Game he was injured.

Not to mention his final 9 starts last season. He's stated that he tends to start out slowly, and that seems to be the case. He seems to get stronger as the season progresses.

oh yeah. I remember that now. Against the Pirates. Good game for him in a season of absolute suck. He's never been the TOR he was advertised to be. Does anyone still think he'll have a better career than Cueto? anyone? no.

Bailey is irrelevant until he proves otherwise. He's a young Daniel Cabrera at this point, minus the health.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 04:20 PM
oh yeah. I remember that now. Against the Pirates. Good game for him in a season of absolute suck. He's never been the TOR he was advertised to be. Does anyone still think he'll have a better career than Cueto? anyone? no.

Bailey is irrelevant until he proves otherwise. He's a young Daniel Cabrera at this point, minus the health.

Better than Cueto? Possibly. They're both VERY young still. Waaaay too early to tell. Cueto can look very bad at times too.

And the "advertising" of him being a TOR arm is the reason many here are soured on him. He IS very talented and he DOES have a very good arm. Give him time. The previous front office screwed the pooch in terms of Bailey's early time with the Reds...time to cut him some slack.

dougdirt
07-19-2010, 04:25 PM
oh yeah. I remember that now. Against the Pirates. Good game for him in a season of absolute suck. He's never been the TOR he was advertised to be. Does anyone still think he'll have a better career than Cueto? anyone? no.

Bailey is irrelevant until he proves otherwise. He's a young Daniel Cabrera at this point, minus the health.

Assuming Bailey's arm is indeed healthy and nothing is structurally wrong with is.... I take Bailey's career over Cueto's. I just don't see Cueto holding up over a long haul as a starter.

Chip R
07-19-2010, 04:29 PM
I think he'd get murdered in GABP.


Possibly but he didn't get murdered in Philly. Small sample size but some good hitters in that lineup.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Better than Cueto? Possibly. They're both VERY young still. Waaaay too early to tell. Cueto can look very bad at times too.

And the "advertising" of him being a TOR arm is the reason many here are soured on him. He IS very talented and he DOES have a very good arm. Give him time. The previous front office screwed the pooch in terms of Bailey's early time with the Reds...time to cut him some slack.

No, it's time to expect him to progress. He has to do it more than just September and a couple of games as the team's #4 starter this year.


Assuming Bailey's arm is indeed healthy and nothing is structurally wrong with is.... I take Bailey's career over Cueto's. I just don't see Cueto holding up over a long haul as a starter.

I'm not seeing Bailey getting it done now. That's the problem. His career won't outlast Cueto's if he can't get his career going. Right now, even if he were healthy, he'd have no spot in the rotation, and he'd likely be behind Maloney and LeCure on the depth chart.


Possibly but he didn't get murdered in Philly. Small sample size but some good hitters in that lineup.

exactly.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 04:40 PM
No, it's time to expect him to progress. He has to do it more than just September and a couple of games as the team's #4 starter this year.

3 out of his last 4 starts were very solid. He WAS improving and progressing.


I'm not seeing Bailey getting it done now. That's the problem. His career won't outlast Cueto's if he can't get his career going. Right now, even if he were healthy, he'd have no spot in the rotation, and he'd likely be behind Maloney and LeCure on the depth chart.

Yeah, I don't see that. He'd be ahead of both those guys and probably Wood & Leake as well.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Better than Cueto? Possibly. They're both VERY young still. Waaaay too early to tell. Cueto can look very bad at times too.

ok, I need to come back to this. Halladay looked pretty bad yesterday. All pitchers, even Cliff Lee can look bad at times.

Cueto,
pre ASB 2009: 109 IP 83K's 37 BB's 3.62 ERA 18 starts
pre ASB 2010: 110 IP, 79K's 36BB's 3.42 ERA 18 starts

eerily similar. We know what happened in 2009. Kid was tired from the dominican winter league and the WBC. His second half was pretty ugly, with a bit of a rebound in September. Cueto is probably 200 IP guy with around a 3.50 ERA and 150-175K's He's a solid #2-3 starter.

Bailey should pray to the baseball gods for a first half like that.

dougdirt
07-19-2010, 04:43 PM
Cueto,
pre ASB 2009: 109 IP 83K's 37 BB's 3.62 ERA 18 starts
pre ASB 2010: 110 IP, 79K's 36BB's 3.42 ERA 18 starts

eerily similar. We know what happened in 2009. Kid was tired from the dominican winter league and the WBC.

We don't know that is what caused his decline at all.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Yeah, I don't see that. He'd be ahead of both those guys and probably Wood & Leake as well.

no way. not a chance if he's pronounced healthy he's ahead of Leake or Wood. I might have him just behind Maloney. Leake is ahead of him on poise. Wood on talent. This team's #1 starter right now is Cueto, hands down. Arroyo is #2.

Bailey would be #7 if he had an option left.

Redmachine2003
07-19-2010, 04:44 PM
The only real bad game Leake has had was against the Giants IMO. The other four games he made 4 bad pitches. That lead to 4 3run homers.

TRF
07-19-2010, 04:46 PM
We don't know that is what caused his decline at all.

It's a pretty good guess seeing as how his first half this year has mirrored his first half from last year. It's not like the league lost its book on Cueto. They know how he pitches by now.

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 04:53 PM
no way. not a chance if he's pronounced healthy he's ahead of Leake or Wood. I might have him just behind Maloney. Leake is ahead of him on poise. Wood on talent. This team's #1 starter right now is Cueto, hands down. Arroyo is #2.

Bailey would be #7 if he had an option left.

That's your opinion. Fine. Mine differs. Leake has been very hittable lately and he's going to be shut down shortly. Wood only has a few starts under his belt, we have NO CLUE what he's really going to be like. Same goes for Maloney. Don't get me wrong, I love all 3 of those guys too. It's a great problem to have, all of these great young arms. But I think Bailey has the stuff to be a TOR pitcher still and I also don't think he has much left to prove in the minors. I'm pretty sure we'll see a trade in the next couple of weeks.

And yes, options WILL play into this. It's not Homer's fault the FO burned his options well before he was ready. That was so beyond stupid it still amazes me.

BRM
07-19-2010, 04:55 PM
Is Homer even close to returning?

_Sir_Charles_
07-19-2010, 04:55 PM
The only real bad game Leake has had was against the Giants IMO. The other four games he made 4 bad pitches. That lead to 4 3run homers.

Same could be said of many of Homer's starts this year. He's had several where he shut down the opposition for several innings in a row and then had a bloop and a blast ruin his day, or the pen failed him. His final line on many of his outings don't tell the tale. But that could be said for MANY pitchers.

kaldaniels
07-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Is Homer even close to returning?

Simulated game this week.

BRM
07-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Simulated game this week.

Thanks.

fearofpopvol1
07-19-2010, 05:07 PM
I'll likely get flamed for this...

I don't think Leake is better than Maloney. Leake has been very hittable lately and, and he's been walking a lot of guys lately too. 1 BB in his last two starts, 13 in the four previous to that. Plus he's starting to have the innings pile up. His ceiling MIGHT be higher than Maloney's, but I'm not sure he's the better option 30 days from now. Leake might have 10 starts left in him this year. maybe. He's likely not going to see any work in the postseason.

He isn't a GB machine. his GB/FB ratio is 1.01. GABP can hurt him. Maloney is LH, like Wood, and that has value in the rotation.

No, I am not saying I'd rather have Maloney over Wood. I am saying that all Maloney has ever done at any level is produce, once he's adjusted to said level. He doesn't have to pitch in Safeco or Chavez Ravine to be successful either. The man knows how to get a K, something BTW, Leake does not do well at all.

Not going to flame you for it, but I don't see it. Maloney has no movement on his pitches (his pitches are flat), where as Leake has plenty of it. Maloney is not likely to strike out batters at the MLB level. He just doesn't have the stuff. The majors are a lot different than the minors. By contrast, Leake has better velocity, more pitches and he is likely to strike out more batters at the show than Maloney. Leake is still a rookie, so he'll need to make adjustments, but I see no reason he can't. Leake is also much younger than Maloney is too.

I think Maloney is a good depth guy and could maybe succeed on the west coast as a BOR. If I was a seller, he'd be a decent guy to target to eat some innings up, but I wouldn't being counting on him for anything more.

mth123
07-19-2010, 08:22 PM
Assuming Bailey's arm is indeed healthy and nothing is structurally wrong with is.... I take Bailey's career over Cueto's. I just don't see Cueto holding up over a long haul as a starter.

Put me in complete agreement.

Ron Madden
07-20-2010, 03:56 AM
I'm not going to pretend that I know who will have the better career between Bailey or Cueto.

I do know this... If it came down to the last game of the season and the Reds needed to win that game to make the post season with both Bailey and Cueto healthy and rested, I'd rather take my chances with Cueto on the mound.

TRF
07-20-2010, 10:06 AM
Not only is Leake better than Maloney, so is Aaron Harang. I find it doubtful that Maloney will ever be anything more than a spot starter / injury replacement in the majors. He just doesn't have a credible "out" pitch.

This post was nagging at me. Not so much about Maloney, but about Leake and Harang. For all the talk about how "bad" Harang has been this year, and how "good" Leake has been, I decided to take a closer look.

They have pretty much identical numbers except for ERA.


Pitcher IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA
Leake 109.2 114 43 12 39 70 5.74 97.5 1.40 3.53
Harang 100.1 118 56 15 28 75 6.73 105.7 1.46 5.02

Now maybe the criticism of Harang stems from his two stellar years 06-07. Maybe it's rookie love. But in June, Aaron was the better pitcher. In May, Aaron was pretty average, and Leake was outstanding. April was abysmal for Aaron in that 6 of his HR allowed came in that month. Since May 1 he's allowed 9 HR.

Except for 1 game, June 15, Harang's ERA has lowered or stayed even since April 21. He's been extremely valuable, and I'm not sure why everyone is in such a hurry to dump him.

membengal
07-20-2010, 10:13 AM
I think it's the difference in ERA, trf. At least, it is for me. I am not much of a FIP or xFIP person, and, in the end, am interested in actual run prevention. Leake is a rookie making a leap directly to the bigs, and has been really good.

pedro
07-20-2010, 10:37 AM
This post was nagging at me. Not so much about Maloney, but about Leake and Harang. For all the talk about how "bad" Harang has been this year, and how "good" Leake has been, I decided to take a closer look.

They have pretty much identical numbers except for ERA.


Pitcher IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA
Leake 109.2 114 43 12 39 70 5.74 97.5 1.40 3.53
Harang 100.1 118 56 15 28 75 6.73 105.7 1.46 5.02

Now maybe the criticism of Harang stems from his two stellar years 06-07. Maybe it's rookie love. But in June, Aaron was the better pitcher. In May, Aaron was pretty average, and Leake was outstanding. April was abysmal for Aaron in that 6 of his HR allowed came in that month. Since May 1 he's allowed 9 HR.

Except for 1 game, June 15, Harang's ERA has lowered or stayed even since April 21. He's been extremely valuable, and I'm not sure why everyone is in such a hurry to dump him.

I'm not dumping on Harang at all. I was just making the point that in all the conversation about who the Reds best 5 starters are he seems to get left out of the conversation. I know his w-l record is poor the last few years but he has had some bad luck and as the reds slotted #1 does face the top of other teams rotations more often than not.

TRF
07-20-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm not dumping on Harang at all. I was just making the point that in all the conversation about who the Reds best 5 starters are he seems to get left out of the conversation. I know his w-l record is poor the last few years but he has had some bad luck and as the reds slotted #1 does face the top of other teams rotations more often than not.

Wasn't saying you were. Just the mention of Leake and Harang was nagging at me.

TRF
07-20-2010, 10:54 AM
I think it's the difference in ERA, trf. At least, it is for me. I am not much of a FIP or xFIP person, and, in the end, am interested in actual run prevention. Leake is a rookie making a leap directly to the bigs, and has been really good.

Thing is, Leake can't sustain his ERA pitching like he has his last six starts. 25 ER his last six starts. For Harang, 16 ER his last six starts.

Something to think about. Take away the attitude and it is reminiscent of one Jack Armstrong. Sometimes guys get figured out. Then again, maybe it was just the grind getting to him. He's had some days off, and hopefully he bounces back tonight.

pedro
07-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Leake knows how to pitch. He's going to run out of gas this year but no doubt in my mind he has a better career than Homer Bailey.

_Sir_Charles_
07-20-2010, 11:16 AM
Since this thread is about Maloney....last night:

6 ip / 3 hits / 1 unearned run / 1 bb / 3 k's / 103 pitches:66 for strikes / 10 groundouts / 5 flyouts

Right back to his winning ways

membengal
07-20-2010, 11:25 AM
Thing is, Leake can't sustain his ERA pitching like he has his last six starts. 25 ER his last six starts. For Harang, 16 ER his last six starts.

Something to think about. Take away the attitude and it is reminiscent of one Jack Armstrong. Sometimes guys get figured out. Then again, maybe it was just the grind getting to him. He's had some days off, and hopefully he bounces back tonight.

Problem is, and this may be just me, I kinda discount the 9th inning in Philly. So, it's not as dire as it looks. He hit a bit of a wall, he got some rest, he was REALLY good in a pitcher's park against the Phillies (up until the great 9th inning unhappiness), and now he has rested again.

Frankly, I simply trust Leake more than Harang at this point.

TRF
07-20-2010, 11:41 AM
Problem is, and this may be just me, I kinda discount the 9th inning in Philly. So, it's not as dire as it looks. He hit a bit of a wall, he got some rest, he was REALLY good in a pitcher's park against the Phillies (up until the great 9th inning unhappiness), and now he has rested again.

Frankly, I simply trust Leake more than Harang at this point.

fine, discount that inning. I do too, to an extent.

Doesn't excuse the other 5 starts prior to that. He's allowing an alarming number of baserunners. He escaped Oakland with 1 ER, while allowing 9 baserunners. That's not a stat line you can expect to repeat itself too often. His last 3 starts, 27 baserunners. That's a lot.

I for one do not trust him more than Harang.

membengal
07-20-2010, 12:00 PM
I get that. It's just that I don't think Harang is particularly capable of "gems" at this point. At some juncture, he will get hit in any particular game, and it will put the team facing having to overcome being down 4-1 to win.

Harang is serviceable. A few years ago, he was more than that. I salute him for what he gave this team for years, but my preference, at this point, is Leake. Even with the rough patches he has inevitablely encountered in his rookie year.

nate
07-20-2010, 12:08 PM
Leake knows how to pitch. He's going to run out of gas this year but no doubt in my mind he has a better career than Homer Bailey.

Yes.