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View Full Version : I wonder



berryluther
07-17-2010, 09:34 PM
what Card fans are saying about now?

realistic
07-17-2010, 10:01 PM
buhaha

this reminds me so much of the braves in the early 90's. young,talented and deep. cardinals fans should be very worried.

ILoveWilly
07-17-2010, 10:22 PM
I just want them to lose for a freaking change. Annoying pests.

GIDP
07-17-2010, 11:02 PM
They are saying these type of quotes.

"Once we get healthy, they Reds wont keep up. All this time we have been keeping pace even though our starting 3rd baseman and 2 of our starters have been out"

"That offense is a joke, its completely aided by GABP"

"They are gonna have to shut Leake down soon"

Of course all of those quotes are something we could say and just change some words.

GIDP
07-18-2010, 01:18 AM
A lot of it's GABP, true, but it also seems the Reds are getting a decade's worth of good luck all packed into this one season, so far.

Quote from another site.

arkimadee
07-18-2010, 01:50 AM
Quote from another site.
i think deep down they know we are good.. atleast they acknowledge we exist.. lol..

GIDP
07-18-2010, 01:57 AM
i think deep down they know we are good.. atleast they acknowledge we exist.. lol..

They are just typical fans. They dont see that Votto was out a week, they dont see that we lost half of our really productive catching tandem, they think the Reds rotation is the rotation of the first few weeks of the season.

They dont see that Freese fell back to earth, they dont think Garcia ever will, they think their team has been under producing.

Razzle
07-18-2010, 02:37 AM
They are just typical fans. They dont see that Votto was out a week, they dont see that we lost half of our really productive catching tandem, they think the Reds rotation is the rotation of the first few weeks of the season.

They dont see that Freese fell back to earth, they dont think Garcia ever will, they think their team has been under producing.

Just for a bit of perspective, I'm a Cards fan and I'm not sure I know many fans that think Garcia isn't due some regression. Based on preseason projections quite a few Cards are underplaying projections (Molina/Schumaker/Ryan) and a few are overplaying (Garcia/Rasmus), but at this point in the season you can throw out preseason projections. I'm not sure Ryan will ever hit and he's been a net negative to the team overall. Anyway, these teams are pretty close in talent any way you slice it.

And who cares what Cards fans think? This reminds me of Cards fans that needed validation in 2004 when the Cards came out of nowhere in a division that they were given little chance in. You guys have a great young team. Enjoy it.

Vottomatic
07-18-2010, 02:44 AM
I don't care what Cards fans think in terms of validating whether the Reds are a good team or not.

But it does seem that the Cardinal players and fans don't have any respect for the Reds. That they think the Reds are just lucky and playing over their heads. And that the Reds haven't had to endure many injuries, etc., etc.

Sure, the Cards lost their #4 and #5 starters. But the Reds rotation from the start of the season was Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Leake. Bailey and Harang have missed quite a bit lately. Cards didn't lose their best catcher, like the Reds did. And Hanigan still hasn't found his hitting stroke yet since returning.

I do think the Reds have the better defense. I also think the Reds lineup from top to bottom is better than the Cards lineup. I think Pujols and Holliday are better than our #3 and #4 hitters........but not by that much.

I also think our bullpen is starting to come into shape. I still hope we bolster it with a trade.

I also think and predict that Carpenter is going to go down with an injury. He isn't right.

Razzle
07-18-2010, 03:23 AM
I don't care what Cards fans think in terms of validating whether the Reds are a good team or not.

But it does seem that the Cardinal players and fans don't have any respect for the Reds. That they think the Reds are just lucky and playing over their heads. And that the Reds haven't had to endure many injuries, etc., etc.
This is true. A lot of that comes with the success the Cards have had as of late. With that a lot of the casual fans seem to think that the Cards are entitled to win. And then you've had the struggles of the Reds in that same time frame and with that disbelief in them from Cards fans. Heck, I even see a bit of fatalistic responses on here from Reds fans when something goes wrong. I'm sure the Yankees/Red Sox thought the same thing about the Rays in 2008 that many Cards fans feel about the Reds.

Sure, the Cards lost their #4 and #5 starters. But the Reds rotation from the start of the season was Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Leake. Bailey and Harang have missed quite a bit lately. Cards didn't lose their best catcher, like the Reds did. And Hanigan still hasn't found his hitting stroke yet since returning.
No, but the Cards don't have the depth that the Reds do to overcome those injuries either. Thus far you guys have probably gotten better production out of those that replaced Harang and Bailey then you did out of them, but injuries are part of the game as is the depth to replace those that get injured.

I do think the Reds have the better defense. I also think the Reds lineup from top to bottom is better than the Cards lineup. I think Pujols and Holliday are better than our #3 and #4 hitters........but not by that much.
The Reds without a doubt have the better infield defense, though I think the Cards outfield defense is comparable. Rolen is the best defensive third baseman I've ever seen and I can't root for that guy to fail even if it'd help the Cards out. The lineup depth the Reds have is pretty insane. A lot of pop in the order and really not an easy out in it (Cabrera is better than he's been IMO). I think I'd take the heart of the Cards order over the Reds, but the Cards have at least 3 holes in the lineup right now.

I also think our bullpen is starting to come into shape. I still hope we bolster it with a trade.

I also think and predict that Carpenter is going to go down with an injury. He isn't right.
I'd imagine with the trading chips you guys have you could easily bolster that pen. The left side looks good with Bray and Rhodes. A trade for an established reliever like Soria that could take over the closers role and push all those righties down one role would probably be huge. I'm not sure they'd do something like that however as, much like Tony LaRussa, Dusty sticks with vets to a fault and I'm not sure they'd remove Cordero from that role. (I doubt there's been talks of that even yet in Cincy has there?)

As far as Carpenter goes, he looked shaky after that ball hit his forearm, but pitched alright against the DBacks after that. The next two starts he got shelled against the Brewers and hit pretty good against the Rockies, but he dominated the Dodgers on Thursday, so I'm not sure what to make of him. I doubt that he's hurt, but with his history that's always in question. I just think we're seeing the signs of the guy aging, he's just not as dominant anymore. Even when the results were there earlier in the season his stuff just didn't look as good as it did in years past.

Sorry this was so long. Look forward to conversation the rest of the season with you guys.

Rijo's Ghost
07-18-2010, 03:25 AM
Carpenter's numbers are nearly identical to 2004-2006 Carpenter. I think it's less "not right" and more that his HR/9 and a couple other peripherals from last year were unsustainable.

I think as things are now they have way underperformed. Not just some of the players, that's to be somewhat expected year to year, but they are 4 wins below their Pythagorean projection.

To be fair, Ludwick has been out a month, Penny was having a career year, Lohse is a 5 guy and Freese was providing league average offense and defense. The injury bug has obviously hit them harder.

Anyways, I expect the Cardinals to get it together in the 2nd half. They're honestly too good not to. Our luck in May is pretty undeniable. But I think we take the wildcard. Can't see the Mets hanging around and Utley being out is hurting the Phillies a ton. We'll battle it out with Colorado and LA. I'd rather have Volquez in bullpen though. I think that's better for the team in the short term and better for Volquez in the long term. The last thing I want to see is Dusty managing him in a pennant race a year after TJS.

GIDP
07-18-2010, 06:41 AM
I dont expect the Cardinals to have another month like in 2009 where they went 20-6.

redssince75
07-18-2010, 01:16 PM
what Card fans are saying about now?



In Stl, they are saying "we're finally winning. We've played HORRIBLE so far this year, and we are still only 1/2 game out of first. We're going to play like Cardinals for the rest of the year and win the division by about 10 games. I just hope we can go deeper in the playoffs than last year."

If you really wanted to know.

sivman17
07-18-2010, 01:45 PM
"If Volquez is truly back and Wood is the real thing (and he looks pretty good thru 2 against the Rockies today), I think we're in for a fight to the finish for the Central crown."

that's from gatewayredbirds.com

wojo1025
07-18-2010, 06:58 PM
"It's good to be in 1st"