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View Full Version : Thoughts on our outfield depth...



RFH
07-19-2010, 02:04 AM
We have Jonny Gomes, Drew Stubbs and Jay Bruce across the board as well as Laynce Nix and Chris Heisey.

While the Reds have come across some offensive struggles in recent weeks, we still feature one of the best outfields depth-wise.

Would it be wise for us to consider trading someone like Drew Stubbs or Chris Heisey in order to net us more pitching? Perhaps a starter and/or some relief help?

How about the following in a three-team trade?


Royals get Melky Cabrera and the remainder of his salary paid by the Braves.

Braves get Drew Stubbs.

Reds get Kyle Farnsworth and a reliever like Michael Dunn or Jonny Venters from the Braves.

We gain better depth in our bullpen on the left and right side, the Braves get a CF capable player in Drew Stubbs to push Nate McLouth and put Eric Hinske/Matt Diaz back on the bench where they belong and the Royals get to dump some salary while getting themselves a useful and retainable part like Melky Cabrera in exchange for Farnsworth, whose contract is up at the end of the season.

For the remainder of the season, Chris Heisey steps in to play center while Laynce Nix continues to back Gomes and is ready to shift to center if needed.

sabometrics
07-19-2010, 02:16 AM
We have an over-abundance starting pitching. I don't want to see Stubbs or Heisey shipped off for a starter. We need one more shutdown arm for the back end of the bullpen, that's it. Even then though we have the trading chips in the minors that I wouldn't deal one of the young OFs who are currently contributing in the majors.

On the suggestion: Venters isn't going anywhere. You can bank on that. He's young, he's cheap, and the Braves are gunning for the playoffs. And I don't want any part of Farnsworth, I've seen him long enough to know that he's no upgrade.

RFH
07-19-2010, 02:31 AM
Cool.

Thanks for the opinion.

While I have been impressed with Drew Stubbs tools, I have a growing concern that he will cap out as a low-average type guy destined to be a back of the order type hitter.

I honestly feel that the more depth we can gain in the bullpen the better off we can be. The only reason I mention Venters is that he and Michael Dunn are, more or less, clones of one another as LOOGYs go. Venters has come pretty much out of no where for them while Dunn's MO has always been a lot of K's and an equal amount of walks.

The Braves will no doubt look to deal from their relief pitching depth and we are one of many clubs who could benefit from more relief. While Rhodes has been excellent, our other options haven't been so hot. I agree that we could use one more shut down arm, but two arms would be better.

I think there's a lesson to be learned from two teams in particular. One, the aforementioned Braves, has ridden a superb bullpen and stellar starting pitching to the top of their division. The other is the White Sox, who rely on their power, adequate starting pitching and a shutdown bullpen...and rode them from the brink of non-contention to the top of their division.

The names are interchangeable in this discussion, I think. While we may not want a Farnsworth, I think that we, the Braves and a third team with a reliever to trade can be a great fit.

If we can start to sew up the leaks in the bullpen and gain 2 arms we can rely on ahead of Cordero and Rhodes, it would greatly benefit us. Obviously the offense is of concern...and trading a current outfielder wouldn't initially help, but this would be the first move in a two-move series which would bring in another bat...perhaps one that could supplant Cabrera at short or replace Stubbs' production in center and force Heisey to right to help out Jay Bruce.

Thoughts?

sabometrics
07-19-2010, 02:41 AM
I don't see Venters as a loogy, I see him as a possible future closer. His stuff is pretty overpowering, and not just against lefties. His value is high, especially with Wagner retiring after this season.

RFH
07-19-2010, 02:45 AM
Perhaps he is. His walk rates are kind of high, but his K potential does warrant the possibility. Still, I keep reading that the closer of the future is another control-less reliever named Craig Kimbrel. That kid looks dynamic, though I'm pretty sure the Braves him as off-limits before they have Venters tagged as a no-no in discussions.

Yet...Michael Dunn still appears to be ready for a major league gig and the Braves also have Eric O'Flaherty.

If we can net Dunn for ourselves and a reliever for now...I'd, personally, highly consider trading Stubbs. While Stubbs does have all the tools for success, his strike out rates suggest he will never maximize his potential.

sabometrics
07-19-2010, 02:45 AM
And on Stubbs: even if he stays a low average guy, if he keeps that power and speed, to go along with an improving defensive skillset, he is extremely valuable. I have a friend who worked for the Bats last year and saw him on a day-in, day-out basis, and he vouches that Stubbs will only get better in the field. Give me a .240-.250 guy who hits 20-30 HRs a year, drives in a decent amount of runs, and steals 40 bags a year, and I say we keep him for as long as he is affordable.

RFH
07-19-2010, 02:50 AM
High praise for Stubbs. I sure hope your friend is right because while he does feature some pop and excellent speed...I don't see him ever being a 30-40 guy. I see him as a 10-40 max with a .700ish OPS in the future because of a combination of low OBP and marginally decent SLG. That isn't so valuable.

But to each their own. I hope your friend is right...and of course we're not GM's here, so we can probably get an additional prospect as it is right now. I think Stubbs would definitely net us more...but I was trying to stay conservative.

Thanks for the opinions.

sabometrics
07-19-2010, 03:01 AM
30 was probably excessive. 20-25 HRs is probably what I think he brings to the table. I haven't been overly impressed by his defense in the majors, but my friend saw waaaaay more of him than I have and spoke so highly of his glove that I can't help but hold back my criticisms.