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redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 11:06 AM
Maybe it is just me, and I hope it is, but I have the feeling that current ownership is not going to approve any extra payroll for a stretch run trade. Not based on facts just based on what all the reports are implying about the lack of attendance. I think Bob has done an admiral job so far spending money in the right places, aka the minor leagues and scouting in the Dominican, but if he does not step it up and approve a trade or two I think his credibility takes a major hit. Does anyone else get this same feeling?

muddie
07-19-2010, 11:17 AM
I believe that ownership has a longer term plan than the fans are interested in. I have, and will continue to believe, the team is exceeding managements expectations this year and they're happy with that. I would imagine they're willing to tweak here and there but not willing to make the big move yet.

Just my opinion...

KOBasinger
07-19-2010, 11:18 AM
I'm not going to doubt ownership in anyway after the Chapman signing.

brm7675
07-19-2010, 11:54 AM
Not at all, there is not much of value that is out there that the Reds need.


Maybe it is just me, and I hope it is, but I have the feeling that current ownership is not going to approve any extra payroll for a stretch run trade. Not based on facts just based on what all the reports are implying about the lack of attendance. I think Bob has done an admiral job so far spending money in the right places, aka the minor leagues and scouting in the Dominican, but if he does not step it up and approve a trade or two I think his credibility takes a major hit. Does anyone else get this same feeling?

The Voice of IH
07-19-2010, 11:55 AM
all we can do is think or believe, there is no evidence that either opinion is right or wrong so there is no reason to debate it.

Vottomatic
07-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Cincinnati Bearcats football has been good the last 3 years after being pathetic for their entire existence. They went undefeated last season, won the Big East title, and went to a major bowl game.

They have their highest season ticket sales ever going into this season.

The Reds have been pathetic how long?

If ownership keeps this team on the radar for a couple of years and the fans see long term commitment, ticket sales will start to increase dramatically.

lidspinner
07-19-2010, 04:28 PM
Cincinnati Bearcats football has been good the last 3 years after being pathetic for their entire existence. They went undefeated last season, won the Big East title, and went to a major bowl game.

They have their highest season ticket sales ever going into this season.

The Reds have been pathetic how long?

If ownership keeps this team on the radar for a couple of years and the fans see long term commitment, ticket sales will start to increase dramatically.


EXACTLY....now way us fans are going to get stonewalled into another mirage. Give us a few years of winning baseball and we will again spend all out money on our Reds......I still go to more than my share of games every year....but if we had a streak of 3-5 years of competing baseball, then I would go to as many as my wallet will afford me to go to....I would stop fishing and start going to more games.....I would love to be sitting at GABP in late September as opposed to sitting in my tree stand, but these last 10 years have not been so...the tree stand had more action.

1990REDS
07-19-2010, 04:39 PM
the reds have been bad for so long that i really think that its gonna take at least a FULL YEAR of being competative before attendance really improves. Times are tough and lets face it, baseball tickets are bought with your discretionary (sp?) income. Owners will tell you that you have to come to the ballpark so they have money to invest into the team but I think that fans want to see a complete product before they invest thier hard earned dollars into it.

brm7675
07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
the reds have been bad for so long that i really think that its gonna take at least a FULL YEAR of being competative before attendance really improves. Times are tough and lets face it, baseball tickets are bought with your discretionary (sp?) income. Owners will tell you that you have to come to the ballpark so they have money to invest into the team but I think that fans want to see a complete product before they invest thier hard earned dollars into it.

Lets also not forget that Reds fans are some of the most jaded fans in baseball. Everytime I look around fans are either wanting ownership to put together the next coming of the BRM (not possible) or expect the present team to match that teams feet. If this years team makes the playoffs and bows out in the first round people will say..."Well the BRM wouldn't have done that and such."

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Maybe it is just me, and I hope it is, but I have the feeling that current ownership is not going to approve any extra payroll for a stretch run trade. Not based on facts just based on what all the reports are implying about the lack of attendance. I think Bob has done an admiral job so far spending money in the right places, aka the minor leagues and scouting in the Dominican, but if he does not step it up and approve a trade or two I think his credibility takes a major hit. Does anyone else get this same feeling?

I wouldn't increase payroll if I was the owner. I've done my job as an owner. It's up to the fans to start showing up.

But then, if I was the owner, I never would have hired Dusty Baker and have a 6-9 record (with 5 shutouts) on Sundays this season.

Fon Duc Tow
07-19-2010, 05:00 PM
I wouldn't increase payroll if I was the owner. I've done my job as an owner. It's up to the fans to start showing up.

2nd place and if the playoffs started today, the Reds wouldn't make it.

And how many playoff games has Castellini's Reds won?

MAN your expectations are low. :beerme:

"Wow the Reds are actually not a complete joke this season! I mean, sure they aren't in 1st, but they aren't the Pirates this season! Why don't the games sell out every night now?! What is wrong with this city?!" :D

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:05 PM
2nd place and if the playoffs started today, the Reds wouldn't make it.

And how many playoff games has Castellini's Reds won?

MAN your expectations are low. :beerme:

"Wow the Reds are actually not a complete joke this season! I mean, sure they aren't in 1st, but they aren't the Pirates this season! Why don't the games sell out every night now?! What is wrong with this city?!" :D

Yes, Chicken Little.

The sky is falling.

The cellar is just around the corner.

We'll be making the 1st pick in the 2011 draft next June.

The team will never win another game.

Put up your REDS' memorabilia in a garage sale because the team is moving to Jacksonville.

Has Bearcats practice started, yet?

......back to reality....

If the REDS win series, the REDS will win the Division. It's as simple as that.

The goal over the next three days is to win the series, not sweep the Nationals. The goal over the last three days was to win the series, not sweep the Rockies.

Set goals, reach goals, win the division.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't increase payroll if I was the owner. I've done my job as an owner. It's up to the fans to start showing up.

But then, if I was the owner, I never would have hired Dusty Baker and have a 6-9 record (with 5 shutouts) on Sundays this season.

A move showing me that ownership actually wants to win would make me show up more often to the park. I do not like the fact that Bob C seems to be putting the onus on the fans to show up, show me you want to win then I will show up more.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:12 PM
A move showing me that ownership actually wants to win would make me show up more often to the park. I do not like the fact that Bob C seems to be putting the onus on the fans to show up, show me you want to win then I will show up more.

Then, as a fan, I don't want you. If first place for most of the season isn't good enough for you, continue to do whatever you're doing and I'll be happy with the fans that are showing up now. Together those fans and I will continue to enjoy this "miraculous" season without you.

brm7675
07-19-2010, 05:17 PM
A move showing me that ownership actually wants to win would make me show up more often to the park. I do not like the fact that Bob C seems to be putting the onus on the fans to show up, show me you want to win then I will show up more.

Can you give me any credible examples that he doesn't want to win?

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:20 PM
Then, as a fan, I don't want you. If first place for most of the season isn't good enough for you, continue to do whatever you're doing and I'll be happy with the fans that are showing up now. Together those fans and I will continue to enjoy this "miraculous" season without you.

I live 2 hours away and make it to 5-10 games per year, I watch nearly every game and have the radio on when I am not watching, the year picks you, you don't pick the year. I just do not like the billionare owner of the team basically dropping hints that unless attendance approves then he will not approve money for parts to be added. "We are just not going to lose anymore" means just that, put your money where your mouth is. I think he is doing a good job as owner but the hints are making me angry.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:23 PM
Can you give me any credible examples that he doesn't want to win?

No, I think he wants to win never said he did not want to win. Every time there is a trade offer or when reporters are talking about the Reds in trades the caveat is always ownership will not approve any added payroll unless attendance improves.

I hope I am wrong and am reading into things too deeply.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:28 PM
I live 2 hours away and make it to 5-10 games per year, I watch nearly every game and have the radio on when I am not watching, the year picks you, you don't pick the year. I just do not like the billionare owner of the team basically dropping hints that unless attendance approves then he will not approve money for parts to be added. "We are just not going to lose anymore" means just that, put your money where your mouth is. I think he is doing a good job as owner but the hints are making me angry.

You just said you didn't go to games in your previous post. Now you say you go to 5-10 games per year. And, your moniker says that you are a REDS fan who is missing in action. Don't know what to believe.

Based on this though, you are the fan he embraces the most. He wants to win for you. But, you need to understand how money is spent, too.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:30 PM
You just said you didn't go to games in your previous post. Now you say you go to 5-10 games per year. And, your moniker says that you are a REDS fan who is missing in action. Don't know what to believe.

I never said I do not go to games, I may go down on Wednesday in fact for my fourth game of the season.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Based on this though, you are the fan he embraces the most. He wants to win for you. But, you need to understand how money is spent, too.

I understand how money is spent and I understand that the gate is not the biggest determination of how much money the team brings in. I also understand that Bob C will make a huge profit when he sells the team just like Uncle Carl did.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:36 PM
This organization has spent more and more money every season for improvements to the most important part of the ballclub....the minor league system. It's the minor league system that's going to keep fans in attendance....not winning World Series. The Florida Marlins won two World Series, but couldn't attract any fanbase because they were inconsistent.

If the REDS can be consistent winners instead of consistent losers like they had been for the last 11 years, then the fans should return. Even when the REDS won in 1990, 1995 and 1999, that wasn't enough to keep the fans. A lot of that had to do with the strike, but some of that has to do with the fact that baseball just isn't that darn important anymore. There's 19 million better things to do with one's life than to attend a baseball game.

I don't think the REDS will ever be great drawers of fans again no matter how many World Series they might win. It's just not that big of a deal anymore to go to a game compared to the other options that are out there.

When I grew up, the kids in my neighborhood put together pick-up baseball games 3 or 4 times a week. I doubt if the kids in your neighborhood have done that even once (get together 7 or 8 boys to play baseball without an adult sniffing around for at least 5 hours) in the last 3 years.

Nobody cares any more.

This is a 25,000 per game town, and it's going to stay that way no matter how much money gets spent.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:38 PM
I understand how money is spent and I understand that the gate is not the biggest determination of how much money the team brings in. I also understand that Bob C will make a huge profit when he sells the team just like Uncle Carl did.

Thankfully, he's not the banana-dude. There's actually a direction this team has and the Minor League system is set up really well. If he sold the club today, it would take 8 years to destroy the work that was done. This club should stay above .500 baseball for the rest of this decade. This will be the best decade of Cincinnati REDS baseball since the 1980's when the REDS had the overall best record of anyone in baseball.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 05:39 PM
This organization has spent more and more money every season for improvements to the most important part of the ballclub....the minor league system. It's the minor league system that's going to keep fans in attendance....not winning World Series. The Florida Marlins won two World Series, but couldn't attract any fanbase because they were inconsistent.

If the REDS can be consistent winners instead of consistent losers like they had been for the last 11 years, then the fans should return. Even when the REDS won in 1990, 1995 and 1999, that wasn't enough to keep the fans. A lot of that had to do with the strike, but some of that has to do with the fact that baseball just isn't that darn important anymore. There's 19 million better things to do with one's life than to attend a baseball game.

I don't think the REDS will ever be great drawers of fans again no matter how many World Series they might win. It's just not that big of a deal anymore to go to a game compared to the other options that are out there.

When I grew up, the kids in my neighborhood put together pick-up baseball games 3 or 4 times a week. I doubt if the kids in your neighborhood have done that even once (get together 7 or 8 boys to play baseball) in the last 3 years.

Nobody cares any more.

This is a 25,000 per game town, and it's going to stay that way no matter how much money gets spent.

On a certain level I agree but I live in Indy and last year our WNBA team went to the finals and they sold out Conseco Fieldhouse for a few games, I am sure the Reds will sell out or come close if they are in the race at the end of the season.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:44 PM
On a certain level I agree but I live in Indy and last year our WNBA team went to the finals and they sold out Conseco Fieldhouse for a few games, I am sure the Reds will sell out or come close if they are in the race at the end of the season.

Certainly, the "euphoria" of "I've got to be a part of the "big game" in town" mentality will show up. The Johnny-come-lately's always show up so they can say, "I was there". You can laugh at them because you were always there.

There are no better fans than you...someone who supports the team for 5-10 games a year regardless of how well they are playing, but can't necessarily afford to spend all the money it takes to get season tickets. That's a huge investment of time and money.

This season is really for your benefit, and I'm glad it's happening for you.

Hopefully, and I have every reason to believe it will happen, Walt Jockety will surprise you and make a really "positive" addition to this club that will have a huge impact on the outcome of the games.

He has to do it under budget, though, and while I didn't think Walt was capable of that, he showed last year and this Winter that he is.

The REDS also spent a lot of money on Chapman, which is really Major League payroll money.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 05:52 PM
On a certain level I agree but I live in Indy and last year our WNBA team went to the finals and they sold out Conseco Fieldhouse for a few games, I am sure the Reds will sell out or come close if they are in the race at the end of the season.

I've been to two events in Indy. A Pacers/Sixers game in January of 1980. Dr. J was wearing a white fur coat with a white fur hat. The other event was a New Year's Day (night) concert of Journey, Jan 1st, 1980. But, you couldn't pay me 10,000 dollars to watch a WNBA game, live or on TV.

1990REDS
07-19-2010, 06:21 PM
I've been to two events in Indy. A Pacers/Sixers game in January of 1980. Dr. J was wearing a white fur coat with a white fur hat. The other event was a New Year's Day (night) concert of Journey, Jan 1st, 1980. But, you couldn't pay me 10,000 dollars to watch a WNBA game, live or on TV.

i think i would literally rather sit in a dark room for 2 hours than watch a wnba game.

Vottomatic
07-19-2010, 09:10 PM
I have never understood how going to games makes you the ultimate fan.

Income and economy are a factor. I work 2 jobs and have 2 busy teenage daughters' activities to attend ritually.

I follow the games on my blackberry when not at home, on TV and the computer when I am at home and available to do so. I also follow on here and post more than I should.

Not all of us have the time or money to go to games a whole bunch. I haven't been this year, which is unusual for me, but I've been EXTREMELY busy and money is tighter than usual. I do plan to go to a bunch of games in the second half though. I hope it's a good second half.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 09:21 PM
I have never understood how going to games makes you the ultimate fan.

Income and economy are a factor. I work 2 jobs and have 2 busy teenage daughters' activities to attend ritually.

I follow the games on my blackberry when not at home, on TV and the computer when I am at home and available to do so. I also follow on here and post more than I should.

Not all of us have the time or money to go to games a whole bunch. I haven't been this year, which is unusual for me, but I've been EXTREMELY busy and money is tighter than usual. I do plan to go to a bunch of games in the second half though. I hope it's a good second half.

It doesn't. But, backing up your interest with your hard-earned dollars speaks volumes about you as a fan....all relative, of course, to your situation.

redsfanmia
07-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Thankfully, he's not the banana-dude. There's actually a direction this team has and the Minor League system is set up really well. If he sold the club today, it would take 8 years to destroy the work that was done. This club should stay above .500 baseball for the rest of this decade. This will be the best decade of Cincinnati REDS baseball since the 1980's when the REDS had the overall best record of anyone in baseball.

I think you meant the 70's, the Reds were pretty bad to average during the 80's in general.

Kingspoint
07-19-2010, 11:03 PM
I think you meant the 70's, the Reds were pretty bad to average during the 80's in general.

No, I meant the 80's, but I forgot how many they had lost.

Heck. I was lost in the '80's.

bleedsred
07-20-2010, 12:24 AM
I have only been to one game this season, the big comeback against the brewers when Votto unloaded a massive shot. I spearheaded a school fieldtrip which brought along another 124 "friends". What kind of fan does that make me? LOL. Usually I try to get to 4-5 wee4kend series, but with kids and grad school this year has been tuff. Anyway, living 2-3 hours away is hard to manage, showing your fans that you are willing to lose a million or two to win will make $$$ in the long run later. It will get fans from my area back at the ball park more often. Plus a better product will lead to greater TV revenue and sponserships (where the real money is at).