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Edskin
07-20-2010, 10:13 AM
I'm a bit torn right now, I must admit.

On one hand there is the pure fan in me that is so excited to see the Reds make their first serious run in 11 years. After all, competing into the fall is what this game is all about and it has literally been a decade since we've done that. So, I'm very anxious and excited for us to stay in this race.

Having said that, as fans, I think we've been waiting even LONGER for the Reds to produce this kind of young talent, specifically yooung starting pitching.

As a matter of fact, you might be able to make the argument that this is the best stable of young arms the organization has had in a very, very long time.

I've thought about it long and hard and I've decided that I am all for Walt making moves to help improve our chances this year, but I am NOT willing to part with ANY of the young arms to do it.

Untouchables:

Wood
Leake
Volquez
Chapman
Cueto
Bailey/Maloney (I would be willing to part with ONE of those two)

Yep, all of them. I don't care what any combo of the above would bring in return...I wouldn't do it for Lee, Hanley, etc.

Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.

If I thought the Reds were a bit "fluky" this year, I'd be all for selling the farm to make a push....there are no guarantees in this game, and when you see an opportunity, sometimes you need to pounce.

But I am confident in this organization right now and I'm confident that even if we come up short this year, that we have the foundation of an extremely good team in place.

Stay the course Walt. Do what you can, but not at the expense of the arms.

edabbs44
07-20-2010, 10:21 AM
Walt isn't going to screw this opportunity by spending at the deadline like a kid at a strip club for the first time. Walt isn't a kid, and this isn't his first trip to the Jiggly Room.

jojo
07-20-2010, 10:40 AM
I get everyone's fascination with Wood given his recent counting stats though I disagree he's untouchable.

But Bailey and Maloney are untouchable?

Bailey has no options and given the other options in the Reds system and on their roster, frankly, Homer might not actually have a home in Cincy.

top6
07-20-2010, 10:42 AM
Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.

So you don't have confidence in the same organization that developed all this young pitching to figure out which pitchers are the most valuable?

Marc D
07-20-2010, 10:46 AM
Gammons is cited on MLBtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/) as saying the Jays were asking the Red Sox for Jose Iglesias in return for Scott Downs. Kenny Williams is also quoted as essentially saying the sellers prices are way too high after a piece that claims the White Sox would give the Nats "any minor leaguer" for Dunn but still can't work a deal.

I'd take Williams quote alone with a huge grain of salt considering he's a buyer but given what we've seen so far I'd say the chances of a big trade involving the Reds are pretty slim.

Edskin
07-20-2010, 11:00 AM
So you don't have confidence in the same organization that developed all this young pitching to figure out which pitchers are the most valuable?

Not so much that I don't have confidence to pick the right guys, as much as it is wanting to hold onto the depth. Let's say you deal a couple of them for help in the line-up....then Cueto or Leake suffers a major injury and/or one of those guys doesn't pan out.....by keeping them all around you protect yourselves against some of the inevitable pitfalls of young pitchers.

TRF
07-20-2010, 11:11 AM
I like Matt Maloney.

I'd deal Maloney and Wood for Hanley Ramirez. I'd throw in Yonder Alonso, Frasier, and any minor league reliever. Donnie Joseph too. They could have both Janish and Cozart in the deal. I'd let Cabrera and Rolen "mentor" the kid, and I'd watch the Reds become the favorites in the NL central for a decade. Yeah, I'd sign him to a ridiculous LTC extending his current contract.

durl
07-20-2010, 11:46 AM
I might be in the minority here, but I would listen to offers on Bailey. The strong performances we've seen from other young arms this year (and the promise of Chapman) make me wonder if Bailey is worth the wait for him to finally reach his potential.

Perhaps Bailey is one of those guys who would thrive elsewhere and we could get a good player in return.

LincolnparkRed
07-20-2010, 11:52 AM
I might be in the minority here, but I would listen to offers on Bailey. The strong performances we've seen from other young arms this year (and the promise of Chapman) make me wonder if Bailey is worth the wait for him to finally reach his potential.

Perhaps Bailey is one of those guys who would thrive elsewhere and we could get a good player in return.

I think Bailey gets you a Gavin Floyd type deal, former big time prospect sent out for average but good player in return. Just wonder where the Reds would look and what they want

hebroncougar
07-20-2010, 11:55 AM
I think Bailey gets you a Gavin Floyd type deal, former big time prospect sent out for average but good player in return. Just wonder where the Reds would look and what they want

Really? I think Bailey is overvalued. By a lot. A guy who can't throw strikes at the big league level, and now has arm problems to boot?

Tom Servo
07-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I'm totally willing to part with Bailey and Maloney.

Caveat Emperor
07-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Really? I think Bailey is overvalued. By a lot. A guy who can't throw strikes at the big league level, and now has arm problems to boot?

At this point, he's a sunk asset. The value he has is next to negligible, and you're better off holding onto him to see if there is value to be mined later.

The player I don't get the love for is Matt Maloney. Dude doesn't have an out pitch at the major league level. Classic AAAA material, IMO.

forfreelin04
07-20-2010, 12:20 PM
I'm a bit torn right now, I must admit.

On one hand there is the pure fan in me that is so excited to see the Reds make their first serious run in 11 years. After all, competing into the fall is what this game is all about and it has literally been a decade since we've done that. So, I'm very anxious and excited for us to stay in this race.

Having said that, as fans, I think we've been waiting even LONGER for the Reds to produce this kind of young talent, specifically yooung starting pitching.

As a matter of fact, you might be able to make the argument that this is the best stable of young arms the organization has had in a very, very long time.

I've thought about it long and hard and I've decided that I am all for Walt making moves to help improve our chances this year, but I am NOT willing to part with ANY of the young arms to do it.

Untouchables:

Wood
Leake
Volquez
Chapman
Cueto
Bailey/Maloney (I would be willing to part with ONE of those two)

Yep, all of them. I don't care what any combo of the above would bring in return...I wouldn't do it for Lee, Hanley, etc.

Looking at those 7 names, you have the potential for an absolutely dominating rotation for the next several years. Of course, you really only need 4 or 5 of them, but at this point, it's too early to tell which are going to be the best and I do not want to learn the hard way that we dealt a stud for a rental.

If I thought the Reds were a bit "fluky" this year, I'd be all for selling the farm to make a push....there are no guarantees in this game, and when you see an opportunity, sometimes you need to pounce.

But I am confident in this organization right now and I'm confident that even if we come up short this year, that we have the foundation of an extremely good team in place.

Stay the course Walt. Do what you can, but not at the expense of the arms.

Great post Ed.

I second your concerns over dealing young pitching but I'd give up three years of average baseball for a possible WS appearance this year.

In today's Major League baseball world, a small market teams best chances may be fleeting. You look at a team like the Twins. They have an average payroll and are seemingly in the mix year in and year out. They do just enough to make the playoffs or contend for them but never put the pieces in place to truly become WS contenders or champions. Though above average baseball is truly great for the city, a championship is the only true measuring stick in sports.

I went to college in the Cleveland market and have a bunch of Cleveland friends who would trade all the years of successful Indians and Cavs years for just one championship. The ability to hang a banner instead of merely supporting a team into October is much sweeter in the short and long run.

Right now, the Central is a two team race and stands to be that till the end of the year. You look at a team like the Cubs and to a lesser extent the Brewers who could be highly competitive next year and for years to come. IMO, this is our chance to truly make a run with the right trade.

Furthermore, I don't see how WJ could give up more than one of these names Chapman, Leake, Wood, and Bailey during the same deadline. Even with one traded, that still leaves you with the other 3 plus Arroyo, Cueto and Volquez. Not to mention, you have 5th starter power in Lecure and Maloney. Also, keep in mind you always have the bargain bin in the winter which sometimes comes up roses. Also, you have the wildcard in Harang. Perhaps, he would come back for a bargain price considering he's on the wrong side of his career and he's put up mediocre numbers for several years now.

I may get slapped for saying this but I like the idea of dealing Wood while his stock is at an all time high. Sell high, buy low is the name of the game. I see him falling back to Earth. In a perfect world, Bailey is healthy and is traded. However, I don't see someone taking a flyer on an injured arm at this time.

The key to all of this trade talk is who or what the Reds actually need. Obviously, Rolen's injury status is paramount to these discussions. They cannot afford to lose him for two weeks and maintain their race with the Cards IMO. If this happens, they'll need another bat rental to plug that gaping hole at 3rd. Though to Cairo's credit, he's performed very well when needed. Names like Reynolds and Cantu come to mind. Forgive me my AL thirdbaseman knowledge is escaping me. And yes I know Cantu's defense is atrocious.

However, I really think the Reds need an ace pitcher like Haren or Oswalt to truly make that push into the WS this year. They have one starting pitcher with any postseason experience.

_Sir_Charles_
07-20-2010, 12:27 PM
And if the Reds DO trade some of that extra pitching for a run at the series THIS year only to fall short...will you still look at the next 3 years of "average" baseball in Cincy in the same light? The only way a "go for broke" move looks good is if it works out. If we go for it this year and then fall back to the bottom of the heap for the next 10 years...I doubt anyone will think it was a good move. We've built from the ground up, time to reap the benefits for years to come...not a one and done.

I agree with Edskin...stay the course. Add some bullpen depth if we must, but no rentals at the cost of a high upside arm. Young pitching is the preferred currency in baseball...don't sell it for a U-Haul.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I also agree with Edskin with one caveat. I'd like to see either some changes in the lineup (a Bruce-Heisey platoon) or the Reds obtain a bat. I would be totally opposed to trading any of the young pitching. Why? Becaue I don't think this is the year. "The Year" in a year or two down the road. Buying a rental (like Cliff Lee or Oswalt) just depletes you of talent and you have to start the next year without the talent. If that makes any sense.

alexad
07-20-2010, 12:50 PM
With Harang and Arroyo being taken off the books after this year if the Reds decide to, the young pitchers will have to fill those two spots. I think the Reds keep Arroyo as the mentor for the young pitchers. Chapman still has not proven he is totally ready to start at the Major League level.

That means you have Arroyo, Volquez, Cueto, Leake, and Wood/Bailey as the fifth stater. I think you will see the Reds trying to deal Cordero in the offseason and make Chapman or Bailey the Closer. Just my thoughts.

I do not see the Reds trading any arms right now. They are too valuable. Maybe the Reds should stand pat adn see where the season takes us. At least if they contend to the end, it will make all of us long time Reds fans even more hungry for something special next season.

But.....Bob wants to win and he can taste it. So far he has done the right things and with Walt running the show, I honestly think this is going to be a good long run for the Reds today and into the future. I think we will see some FA wanting to play in Cincy again.

PuffyPig
07-20-2010, 01:52 PM
I like Matt Maloney.

I'd deal Maloney and Wood for Hanley Ramirez. I'd throw in Yonder Alonso, Frasier, and any minor league reliever. Donnie Joseph too. They could have both Janish and Cozart in the deal. I'd let Cabrera and Rolen "mentor" the kid, and I'd watch the Reds become the favorites in the NL central for a decade. Yeah, I'd sign him to a ridiculous LTC extending his current contract.

Signing Ramirez to a ridiculous long term contract will hamper our ability to sign our pitching when the get more expensive.

Trading a bunch of good prospects for a player on the verge of getting expensive is something big market teams do, or small market teams when they are trying for a one and done deal.

buckeyenut
07-20-2010, 02:32 PM
Signing Ramirez to a ridiculous long term contract will hamper our ability to sign our pitching when the get more expensive.

Trading a bunch of good prospects for a player on the verge of getting expensive is something big market teams do, or small market teams when they are trying for a one and done deal.
Trading for a guy that swings a monster bat at a premium position like SS is something that smart teams do. You have to pay someone, the smart thing is to pay your ace and your kick butt SS and fill in the gaps around them with low rent guys who can produce league average. You don't want to pay 8M per for your #4/#5 starter or LFer.

Rojo
07-20-2010, 03:20 PM
Good point, Ed. It's too early to pick your Five (Volquez, Wood, Cueto, Leake and Chapman seem to be consensus picks) and deal the rest.

Bailey is still just 23 and he's the kind of guy -- first rounder, great arm, rushed-and-disappointing -- that teams should be looking to pick up cheap.

TRF
07-20-2010, 03:39 PM
Signing Ramirez to a ridiculous long term contract will hamper our ability to sign our pitching when the get more expensive.

Trading a bunch of good prospects for a player on the verge of getting expensive is something big market teams do, or small market teams when they are trying for a one and done deal.

Signing him to that LTC after the Reds win the World Series in part because of the three HR's he hits in game 4 ensures payroll won't be a problem for a few years.
:D

See what i did there?

CrackerJack
07-20-2010, 04:35 PM
Trade Harang, Nix (or Gomes) and Bailey for a stud OF bat. :)

KronoRed
07-20-2010, 05:28 PM
Buying a rental (like Cliff Lee or Oswalt) just depletes you of talent and you have to start the next year without the talent. If that makes any sense.

I know I'm not alone on this but I don't really care about next year if the team has a chance this year to win something real, not the mythical 83 wins trophy.

I know we all want the "Consistent contender" but in the Reds financial position I don't really think it's a worthy goal, people get expensive, guys flame out, have career years (such as many this year), and then don't produce squat.

When your O gets shut out for 1/3 of the month and you still have a lead, that is the year :D

REDREAD
07-20-2010, 05:46 PM
After seeing Volquez come back so strong, I'm comfortable going into the playoffs with a rotation of Arroyo, Volquez, and Cueto. That's fine. Sure, it would be great to stuff a Cliff Lee in there, but that is fine.

The team could really use a bat and a bullpen arm. That's more pressing than the rotation, IMO. Trading some prospects to get that is a good idea. Remember the "crown jewels".. Tracy Jones, Kal Daniels, O'Neil, Stillwell, Larkin.. Well, two of those guys turned out to be good players. I would have no problem trading any pitcher on this team outside of the "top 3" I listed, provided we get a good return.

redsmetz
07-20-2010, 05:52 PM
I like the question originally put. I said earlier this season, maybe even back in Spring Training, that this year would be the year that we see what all we have, not just with the big league club, but coming up in the minors. Knowing that, I expected that the club would start moving some of that surplus. It might be Home, it could be Malone or LeCure. We're at such possible depth now that Harang would fall into that category too. The FO knows that depth chart whatever it may be.

I'm not a big fan of the rental concept, although I'm not completely adverse to it. Lee would have been one such, but I don't think there's anyone else on the market that would meet that definition. And I abhor the notion of having the club we're trading with "back the truck up". I understand we've got parts that can moved, but putting together a package that is three or four top level young players is a mistake, in my opinion.

I would disagree with those who say go for it if this is "the year". I think much of our talent is finally coming to fruition and I'm not interested in bankrupting the future for one year's win. I think we can make a good run at it this season, and it's going to be nip and tuck with the Cards all season. But we're positioned to have a number of good years. And some of the talent we currently have (and some will have to be moved, we just have too many bodies) may bring better value in the off-season.

This isn't to suggest that we can't improve ourselves. But at the right price.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

_Sir_Charles_
07-20-2010, 05:56 PM
Well put redsmetz

Rojo
07-20-2010, 07:00 PM
Trading some prospects to get that is a good idea. Remember the "crown jewels".. Tracy Jones, Kal Daniels, O'Neil, Stillwell, Larkin.. Well, two of those guys turned out to be good players. I would have no problem trading any pitcher on this team outside of the "top 3" I listed, provided we get a good return.

A lot of people could've sworn that Daniels and Stillwell were the keepers.

Volquez has one post-TJ start. Wood's pitched 26 big league innings. Leake's young, smallish and is scuffling in the second half.

I'd keep all the young guys save maybe Maloney, who I like more than most but doesn't have that high a ceiling. And, frankly, he deserves better.

At the end of the year, I'd review again and let one or both of Arroyo and Harang walk.

Spitball
07-20-2010, 07:46 PM
With Cliff Lee gone, Oswalt's contract, and Haren's numbers, I don't see any rental players out there worth any of the Reds' young pitchers. And at this point, Homer Bailey has too many question marks to have much trade value.

Depending on how the market plays out, this just might be a very bad summer to go shopping as the deadline approaches. It just might be the first time in a few years the sellers have the upper hand. The Reds may be forced to overpay for a a few months of a "difference maker."

Remember when the Rangers had to trade Mark Teixeira with a year and a half left on his contract to get a really good return on the market...and then the Braves get little more than Casey Kotchman a year later for the same player? Or the Red Sox getting Victor Martinez without giving up their top prospects last year? We will see what happens this year, but the Cliff Lee auction showed a scary trend for teams wanting to acquire a quality addition.

If the market seems to favor the sellers, I think the Reds should be willing to trade Alonso or Francisco, but they should avoid the temptation to trade off their young starting pitchers. I believe the Reds can win the NL Central or the Wild Card spot without overpaying...besides, the Reds haven't had a decent crop of young, talented, cheap pitchers in too long to start shipping them off.

mth123
07-20-2010, 10:30 PM
My two cents.

The Reds young core is going to be competitive for many years, but lots of teams have young cores that could be competitive. The fact is, even when the players are in place, it takes something more to have a good chance to win. Even if all goes as planned they probably won't see the kind of production that they are getting this year from 2B and 3B. Votto will probably always be productive, but this is an MVP caliber year that may be as good as it gets. They won't have another season out of the pen like they are getting from Arthur Rhodes. Even a couple of the young starters may have already reached their peaks. The young cheap kids are going to start costing money and its likely that Arroyo or one of those youg core guys will not be back for money reasons. The league is down in general and there is no dominant team. For all the good going on in the organization, its hard for me to foresee a time where the Reds will have a better chance. As good as the young pitching seems to me, its a rotation filled with guys who range from strong number 3s to decent number 4s. The team's best chance is now and if they are ever going to make a move to bring in an ace to top it all off, now is the time.

That said, the team needs a real upgrade and guys like Ted Lilly, Kevin Millwood or even Dan Haren don't fit the bill IMO. With Lee gone, I'd like to see the Reds go hard after Oswalt. A package involving Alonso and Maloney is probably the best offer they'll get. If money is an issue and the Reds need to move Harang and offer up Heisey to get it done so be it. The future still looks bright if they deal those guys, but opportunity is knocking now. It usually takes big years from the best players to win and the Reds are getting that now with their three All Stars at 1B, 2B, and 3B. Time to go all in IMO.

Spitball
07-20-2010, 10:48 PM
...With Lee gone, I'd like to see the Reds go hard after Oswalt. A package involving Alonso and Maloney is probably the best offer they'll get. If money is an issue and the Reds need to move Harang and offer up Heisey to get it done so be it...

The money is pretty significant. Whatever percent of $15 million left in 2010 and $16 million in 2011. I understand he is demanding that a trade will require the new team to pick up the $16 million club option for 2012.

If Harang can indeed be moved, this might be possible...and if they'd go for Alonso and Maloney, I'd be for it.

mth123
07-20-2010, 11:00 PM
The money is pretty significant. Whatever percent of $15 million left in 2010 and $16 million in 2011. I understand he is demanding that a trade will require the new team to pick up the $16 million club option for 2012.

If Harang can indeed be moved, this might be possible...and if they'd go for Alonso and Maloney, I'd be for it.

Yeah, but if they can move Harang, this year is nearly a wash. Next season, let Arroyo go as well and Oswalt fills both spots at the top of the rotation and the left-over money will go a long way toward the arb raises that will start coming.

Spitball
07-20-2010, 11:22 PM
Yeah, but if they can move Harang, this year is nearly a wash. Next season, let Arroyo go as well and Oswalt fills both spots at the top of the rotation and the left-over money will go a long way toward the arb raises that will start coming.

If it is for a package headed by Alonso and Maloney, this would be the best trade scenario for a starting pitcher I've seen. Though, if an auction between the Reds and another team or more evolved, the Reds would likely be at a disadvantage due to divisional considerations...but I like the plan.

I(heart)Freel
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Yonder should be kept for the purpose of finding a SS prospect in the off-season.

I don't know other teams' farms well enough to throw out names. But surely there's a team with a SS blocked by an established guy the way Yonder is blocked by Votto.

And for the record, to answer the original question, I seriously doubt Walt trades for a position player this month, unless someone goes down with an injury. Just don't see him disrupting the starting 8 chemistry. The most we should expect as fans is a solid set-up man. Maybe an 8th inning closer.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:11 AM
Not sure there is a better SS prospect in baseball who is major league ready and available than what the Reds have in Zach Cozart...

Benihana
07-21-2010, 12:49 AM
I like Matt Maloney.

I'd deal Maloney and Wood for Hanley Ramirez. I'd throw in Yonder Alonso, Frasier, and any minor league reliever. Donnie Joseph too. They could have both Janish and Cozart in the deal. I'd let Cabrera and Rolen "mentor" the kid, and I'd watch the Reds become the favorites in the NL central for a decade. Yeah, I'd sign him to a ridiculous LTC extending his current contract.

Agree with all of this with the exception of the ridiculous LTC extending his current contract.

I like Wood a lot.

I am lukewarm on Bailey and Maloney.

I would happily trade any combination of the three for Hanley, Heyward, Stanton, Buster Posey or Matt Wieters. Maybe some kind of combination of Haren and Drew as well. Other than that though, I'd prefer to hang onto Wood.

Benihana
07-21-2010, 01:31 AM
Not sure there is a better SS prospect in baseball who is major league ready and available than what the Reds have in Zach Cozart...

Possibly, but Reid Brignac belongs in the conversation, if not at the head of the table.

nemesis
07-21-2010, 02:03 AM
Possibly, but Reid Brignac belongs in the conversation, if not at the head of the table.

Cozart season this year is better than what Brignac did last year in AAA.

Brignac - http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458582

OPS'd .744 in the same league ) (-.036 than Cozart). Less walks, Less HR's, Less SB's, Less 3b's, Less RBI's. In 40 more AB's.

I profiled Cozart in a post in the Minor League Forum last night. It profiles his place in the scheme of Minor League SS prospects. If you haven't read it already, please do.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83758

Benihana
07-21-2010, 02:44 AM
Cozart season this year is better than what Brignac did last year in AAA.

Brignac - http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458582

OPS'd .744 in the same league ) (-.036 than Cozart). Less walks, Less HR's, Less SB's, Less 3b's, Less RBI's. In 40 more AB's.

I profiled Cozart in a post in the Minor League Forum last night. It profiles his place in the scheme of Minor League SS prospects. If you haven't read it already, please do.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83758

True, but Brignac was also 1.5 years younger than Cozart in AAA. That is significant.

I'm not saying Brignac is head and shoulders above Cozart, but as I said, he belongs in the conversation at least.

I also wanted to let you know (if I didn't already) that I really enjoyed your minor league team profiles down on that forum.

mth123
07-21-2010, 05:38 AM
True, but Brignac was also 1.5 years younger than Cozart in AAA. That is significant.

I'm not saying Brignac is head and shoulders above Cozart, but as I said, he belongs in the conversation at least.

I also wanted to let you know (if I didn't already) that I really enjoyed your minor league team profiles down on that forum.

Brignac is a lefty bat who plays MI. He's a worthy target and it doesn't have to be either or. He (or a guy like him) is exactly what this team needs to split time with Cozart and sub in for Phillips and Rolen. Having he and Cozart would be a fine situation. The Rays have a lot of talent in their system and don't need a lot of what the Reds have to offer but I'm pretty sure that Alonso would interest them with Pena due for free agency. Maybe Heisey with Crawford also a free agent.

Brignac would be a nice addition for the next 5 or so seasons, but this is the year to go for it and he wouldn't be that put them over the top piece that the team needs and if Alonso or others are needed to acquire some one for right now, the Reds need to make due at SS.

nemesis
07-21-2010, 07:02 AM
I also wanted to let you know (if I didn't already) that I really enjoyed your minor league team profiles down on that forum.

Thank you. I appreciate that very very much.

I think with all the payroll issues that the Rays are going to have going into next season ($60 Mil Max per the owner) and the discussion that they are going to have to dump Bartlett to accomplish that makes Reid about as untouchable as they come in Tampa's system.

But, there are alot of players in Tampa I would love to see the Reds get their hands on.

Any of Shields, Garza, Shoppach, Crawford, Wheeler, Balfor, Joyce, Upton and Soriano could be had by letting, Lincoln (2.5 Mil), Cabrera (3.0), Hernandez (3.0), Arroyo (11.5), Harang (12), Gomes (1), Cairo (.850), Nix (.850)and Miles (2.3) go. Find a taker for at least half of Cordero's contract (Angels, Philly, Atlanta) and that goes to 43 Million in Payflex. Keep in mind that Cordero will be a Type A free agent and worth 2 high draft picks if he walks, that should be factored into his value.

Players like Alonso, Heisey, Bruce, Bailey, Sappelt, Dorn, Francisco, Soto, Frazier, Ondrusek all should have heavy value to Tampa.

mth123
07-21-2010, 07:24 AM
Thank you. I appreciate that very very much.

I think with all the payroll issues that the Rays are going to have going into next season ($60 Mil Max per the owner) and the discussion that they are going to have to dump Bartlett to accomplish that makes Reid about as untouchable as they come in Tampa's system.

But, there are alot of players in Tampa I would love to see the Reds get their hands on.

Any of Shields, Garza, Shoppach, Crawford, Wheeler, Balfor, Joyce, Upton and Soriano could be had by letting, Lincoln (2.5 Mil), Cabrera (3.0), Hernandez (3.0), Arroyo (11.5), Harang (12), Gomes (1), Cairo (.850), Nix (.850)and Miles (2.3) go. Find a taker for at least half of Cordero's contract (Angels, Philly, Atlanta) and that goes to 43 Million in Payflex. Keep in mind that Cordero will be a Type A free agent and worth 2 high draft picks if he walks, that should be factored into his value.

Players like Alonso, Heisey, Bruce, Bailey, Sappelt, Dorn, Francisco, Soto, Frazier, Ondrusek all should have heavy value to Tampa.

Joyce would be a good target who should be obtainable. If the Reds are really going to add Isringhausen and Springer to the pen, a deal involving Joyce and Ondrusek might be something that would interest both teams. The Reds pen is getting crowded (Burton is looking like he could help as well) and the Rays have a need there and a Joyce/Heisey platoon would be productive in LF and provide a plus on defense. For this year, Gomes/Joyce in LF with Heisey moving into a platoon with Bruce might be something that would help the Reds. After the season, Gomes reasonable option might make him a nice piece that could be moved in a deal for something else with Joyce/Heisey settling into LF and Bruce getting his full-time gig back. Nix could be cut loose with no remorse and Dickerson could stay in AAA until September 1. Next year the OF could be Bruce, Stubbs, Joyce/Heisey and Dickerson. That would be a pretty nice and economical group with Speed, Power and no poor defenders.

redsmetz
07-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Coming back late to the conversation, but much of the talk in the latest posts would suggest to me that these may well be moves where we get the best value for the surplus we're developing in the off season. I think that's where clubs will be assessing their situations and know their budgets. I know there are present needs, but I'm not interested in overpaying where better options could be available after the season.