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double21d
07-20-2010, 10:10 AM
Miguel Cairo had a great game yesterday with a couple of hits including a pretty big HR. However, should he be sharing some of the time at 3B with Janish? How could a guy who was nearly the Reds starting SS this year fall so far down the totem pole? I know he doesn't have a great bat but he needs some playing time going down the stretch whether it be for an injured Rolen or to give Cabrera a break. He's barely even used as a late inning defensive replacement.

What do you think?

mattfeet
07-20-2010, 10:11 AM
Agreed on all accounts but it won't happen, IMO.

-Matt

DocRed
07-20-2010, 10:13 AM
Janish would get more PT except his hitting has been atrocious this year...

Billy Bates
07-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Over his career, Janish's bat has mirrorred Juan Castro's. But this year, albeit in limited opportunities, Janish's OPS is .860. Hardly terrible

markymark69
07-20-2010, 10:53 AM
Janish was almost the starting shortstop because there was no one else until they were able to secure Cabrera. I believe the Reds like his glove (and that's his reason for being on the team), but they just don't trust his bat.

When it came down to signing Cabrera or going with Janish - the back of the baseball card won out - Cabrera's is better. For that matter Cairo's is better and thus that is why Janish is the 25th man, maybe the 24th man, Owings might be the 25th man.

Also, as soon as Frazier, Cozart and/or Valaika are ready for the big leagues I think Janish will be no more.

GIDP
07-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Janish would get more PT except his hitting has been atrocious this year...

.296/.397/.463

I wouldnt point this out if it wasnt so wrong.

GIDP
07-20-2010, 11:03 AM
Janish was almost the starting shortstop because there was no one else until they were able to secure Cabrera. I believe the Reds like his glove (and that's his reason for being on the team), but they just don't trust his bat.

When it came down to signing Cabrera or going with Janish - the back of the baseball card won out - Cabrera's is better. For that matter Cairo's is better and thus that is why Janish is the 25th man, maybe the 24th man, Owings might be the 25th man.

Also, as soon as Frazier, Cozart and/or Valaika are ready for the big leagues I think Janish will be no more.

Cabreras OPS this year is .630

Janish Career OPS is .621

Even if Janish isnt a career .621 hitter his defense compared to a .630 OPS Cabrera makes him the better player and it wouldnt be close.

Matter of fact Janish even with his limited playing time has been the more productive player than Cabrera has been this whole season, based on WAR stat.

bgwilly31
07-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Cairo>Janish.

Cairo fooled us all this season and has become a extremely important factor for this ball club. Taking into consideration Rolen's chances of hitting the DL the 2nd half of the season. Cairo could become a major factor for this ball club. He's shown hes a great team player and a good contact hitter.

Janish has had his chances and in previous years and not lived up to par. Thats why we looked for something more in the 1st place.

However until Cabrera comes back to form. i think it should be 2 games Ocab 2 games janish and we see who is playing better.

markymark69
07-20-2010, 11:28 AM
All this SABR and WAR I don't care about. Paul Janish would not have 33 RBI's at this point of the season if he was playing shortstop. Janish would not have that many if he played the whole season, IMO. He is just not an offensive threat.

Cabrera has had a ton of clutch hits this season. Runs, RBI's and to a degree HR's are the most important stats. Avg. only applies in RISP. Add in stolen bases and Janish doesn't measure up. Cabrera brings more to the table. I'm not necessarily a fan of Cabrera in the two-spot, but where else do you hit him? maybe eighth.

Cabrera is the better all-around offensive player and his defense has been pretty darn good this season. This is a better team with Cabrera playing everyday than Janish, IMO and again, the back of the baseball card - also known as a track record - falls in Cabrera's favor.

DocRed
07-20-2010, 11:28 AM
.296/.397/.463

I wouldnt point this out if it wasnt so wrong.

That was my whole point....;)

GIDP
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
All this SABR and WAR I don't care about. Paul Janish would not have 33 RBI's at this point of the season if he was playing shortstop. Janish would not have that many if he played the whole season, IMO. He is just not an offensive threat.

Cabrera has had a ton of clutch hits this season. Runs, RBI's and to a degree HR's are the most important stats. Avg. only applies in RISP. Add in stolen bases and Janish doesn't measure up. Cabrera brings more to the table. I'm not necessarily a fan of Cabrera in the two-spot, but where else do you hit him? maybe eighth.

Cabrera is the better all-around offensive player and his defense has been pretty darn good this season. This is a better team with Cabrera playing everyday than Janish, IMO and again, the back of the baseball card - also known as a track record - falls in Cabrera's favor.
Well at least you admit you dont care if you are wrong.

markymark69
07-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Well at least you admit you dont care if you are wrong.

You haven't proven I'm wrong and besides it's just my opinion.

GIDP
07-20-2010, 11:34 AM
You haven't proven I'm wrong and besides it's just my opinion.

Well you explicitly said you only care about what ever your eyes tells you makes it impossible to prove you wrong in a manner that would make you admit that maybe you arent correct.

markymark69
07-20-2010, 11:40 AM
Well you explicitly said you only care about what ever your eyes tells you makes it impossible to prove you wrong in a manner that would make you admit that maybe you arent correct.

Who is playing and who is not? Obviously someone who has more knowledge than both you or I thinks Cabrera is a better player than Janish. That someone has constructed World Series Champion baseball teams and has built this one into a contender having its best season in 11 years.

The bottom line is - I don't have to be right and if Janish played everyday you wouldn't right.

double21d
07-20-2010, 06:27 PM
I don't think Janish should be the Reds starting SS or 3B, I think he should get more playing time so that Cabrera can be sharp for the home stretch. It seems that Dusty does a good job giving Rolen time off (when not injured) with days off for day games after night games but that never happens for Cabrera and we've seen his numbers slip. Perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if once a week Janish played.

brm7675
07-20-2010, 06:38 PM
All this SABR and WAR I don't care about. Paul Janish would not have 33 RBI's at this point of the season if he was playing shortstop. Janish would not have that many if he played the whole season, IMO. He is just not an offensive threat.

Cabrera has had a ton of clutch hits this season. Runs, RBI's and to a degree HR's are the most important stats. Avg. only applies in RISP. Add in stolen bases and Janish doesn't measure up. Cabrera brings more to the table. I'm not necessarily a fan of Cabrera in the two-spot, but where else do you hit him? maybe eighth.

Cabrera is the better all-around offensive player and his defense has been pretty darn good this season. This is a better team with Cabrera playing everyday than Janish, IMO and again, the back of the baseball card - also known as a track record - falls in Cabrera's favor.

Just because you don't buy into those stats doesn't mean they are not correct. Second no janish may not have 33, but say he has 23-25, I will take that and the greater range he has at SS and the runs he saves over Orlando. Orlando D has not bee darn good, it's been horrible, in fact bottom of the league horrible.

brm7675
07-20-2010, 06:40 PM
Who is playing and who is not? Obviously someone who has more knowledge than both you or I thinks Cabrera is a better player than Janish. That someone has constructed World Series Champion baseball teams and has built this one into a contender having its best season in 11 years.

The bottom line is - I don't have to be right and if Janish played everyday you wouldn't right.

Why is that assumed? Because the Reds were dumb enough to hire Dusty means Dusty is smarter? Please, the numbers don't lie, and in baseball that is what matters.

NorrisHopper30
07-20-2010, 06:43 PM
If Janish does well tonight let him start at 3b tomorrow.

kfm
07-20-2010, 06:45 PM
I would like to see Janish play more in order to give OCab more days off. Having said that, all of this discussion over the 25th guy on the roster seems a little out of whack. I wonder if other fans fret this much over the 25th man. Seems like the best proof of two things, first we apparently have to have something to attack Dusty over and second our favorite team has certainly gotten much much better.

brm7675
07-20-2010, 06:46 PM
I would like to see Janish play more in order to give OCab more days off. Having said that, all of this discussion over the 25th guy on the roster seems a little out of whack. I wonder if other fans fret this much over the 25th man. Seems like the best proof of two things, first we apparently have to have something to attack Dusty over and second our favorite team has certainly gotten much much better.


Your right Orlando shouldn't be seeing the playing time he does on this team, so lets all agree that Orlando sits, gets a game or here every so often and put the right guy at SS.:thumbup:

markymark69
07-20-2010, 08:31 PM
Just because you don't buy into those stats doesn't mean they are not correct. Second no janish may not have 33, but say he has 23-25, I will take that and the greater range he has at SS and the runs he saves over Orlando. Orlando D has not bee darn good, it's been horrible, in fact bottom of the league horrible.

Didn't say they weren't correct. But I will take runs and RBI's over all the other. WAR and SABR and all that do not necessarily consititute runs, runs and RBI's do.

Again, if the Reds would have wanted a defensive only shortstop, Janish would be the guy. It is clear that they wanted more. From an overall offensive standpoint Cabrera is the better player. He brings more to the table. I would not have an issue with Janish spelling OCAB more, but to replace him on an everyday basis would be a mistake, IMO and I think ultimately stats would back that up.

Plus, you had intangibles and experience and that is crucial. The Reds do not have a lot of guys who have played in the post-season, Cabrera has - alot. That will mean something.

To paraphrase the great Sparky Anderson "if you play an extra guy long enough, you find out why he is an extra guy." Janish is an extra guy. You can wish and cry and moan and shout and scream, but its not going to change that.

We all understand how you feel, but give it up, unless OCAB gets hurt, he's going to be the shortstop.

markymark69
07-20-2010, 08:34 PM
Why is that assumed? Because the Reds were dumb enough to hire Dusty means Dusty is smarter? Please, the numbers don't lie, and in baseball that is what matters.

What do you mean? Cabrera is playing, Janish is not. Jocketty signed Cabrera. Jocketty built championship teams in St. Louis and he is building a contender in Cincinnati. What about any of that is assumption?