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durl
07-20-2010, 11:41 PM
One swing from a two-run game.

Here comes Dusty. This is why you pitch once a month.

Or, this is what you look like when you pitch once a month.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Bray coming in

dsmith421
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Or, this is what you look like when you pitch once a month.

Chicken and egg, I suppose.

Chip R
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Bray and Majewski pitch on the same night.

SirFelixCat
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Or, this is what you look like when you pitch once a month.

Winner!

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
Last pitch was typical of how Owings has performed as a Red. 3-2 and throws a pitch "just a little outside." No, he's fodder. When we have kids coming up who can get people out, there is no need for Micha Owings. Unfortunately. And it's why he hasn't pitched. Dusty knows and he comes and gets him.

guttle11
07-20-2010, 11:42 PM
That kid looking for the ball needed Dora the Explorer.

You found it!

forfreelin04
07-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Or, this is what you look like when you pitch once a month.

If you think this is the first time he's thrown in 16 days your crazy. I gurantee he threw simulated bullpens during that timeframe.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2010, 11:44 PM
I came in here to see if people were blasting Micah. While I agree that he's not the greatest, cut him some slack, people. 16 days between appearances...that's brutal.

I completely agree with this. 16 days in between appearances is an eternity. You can't expect him to be sharp. It's just unrealistic, but some people don't understand that.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:44 PM
The Nationals are helping the Reds out by letting Harris bat against a lefty.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2010, 11:44 PM
If you think this is the first time he's thrown in 16 days your crazy. I gurantee he threw simulated bullpens during that timeframe.

Thrown, sure. Thrown in a meaningful game or spot? No. Big difference.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:45 PM
Cordero is going to blow this game eventually, isn't he?

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
Owings got the mound so messed up, no one can pitch

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
Thrown, sure. Thrown in a meaningful game or spot? No. Big difference.
He had a 7 run lead against the Nationals in front of 20 people. I think the bullpen session was higher stress.

forfreelin04
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
Thrown, sure. Thrown in a meaningful game or spot? No. Big difference.

Your right but two walks, a Hbp, and a 2 run homer is inexcusable.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
Bray starts out 0-2 on Harris and loses him to a walk. Bases loaded.

Chip R
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
oy.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:46 PM
Horrible walk to a lefty that is only hitting around .180

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:47 PM
My main problem with Bray is once he gets a hitter down, he plays areound like that a lot. Throw strikes dadgummit!

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:47 PM
The bullpen is going to drive me crazy tonight. Start the inning with an 8-1 lead and have already walked 3 this inning.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2010, 11:47 PM
He had a 7 run lead against the Nationals in front of 20 people. I think the bullpen session wants higher stress.

That's irrelevant. Pitchers are not built to have 16 days off in between appearances. You're asking for the sun and moon if you think otherwise. Blame Dusty if you want for not utilizing him enough. He might not be great, but he's not this bad.

VR
07-20-2010, 11:48 PM
Owings stunk...but his 1st outing in 2 weeks...I'm willing to cut him some slack. Like Janish...he needs more reps.

kaldaniels
07-20-2010, 11:48 PM
Has this been the longest one inning stretch of the year or what.

membengal
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
I don't like how Thom keeps mentioning the great unhappiness in Atl and Philly.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Oh boy

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
My god. A 3 run triple. 8-6.

kbrake
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
I was calm after Philly if we lose this I will cry.

dsmith421
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Do the collapse

membengal
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Damn the umps for not calling this one.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Thats why you can't walk the .180 hitting lefty.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
This is amazing.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Let's hear those that trashed Owings trash Bray now, even though I'm sure people won't. Owings sure didn't walk a .180 batter and then give up a 3 run triple and then a RBI triple after.

dsmith421
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
This is just a complete team meltdown of epic proportions.

kaldaniels
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Tying run on 3rd.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Its a good thing the Nationals are horrible on defense or they would have the lead right now.

SirFelixCat
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Bad News Bears or what?

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Now a hit goes through Cairo. 8-7. The throw to 2nd is wild and the runner goes to 3rd.

Chip R
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Can we get Herrera back?

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Time to bring in Logan or Aruthur or the guys who can pitch. Most of our bullpen is simply horrible. Tying run at 3rd against the Nationals.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM
Nice effort from Cairo.

toledodan
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
i wonder what mike leake is thinking right now.

Blitz Dorsey
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
Absolute pathetic job by Owings and Bray by not being ready to go after the delay. Try and act like professionals guys. Amazing the collapses we've seen this year.

SirFelixCat
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
Ok, I'm officially sick to my stomach. Atlanta Part 3.

redsfaninbsg
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
Is anybody warming up?

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
Leake has some bad luck.

dsmith421
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
Here comes the inevitable Dunn home run to put the cherry on the poop cake.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
i wonder what mike leake is thinking right now.Probably that he has no help. Look for Dunn to put them ahead right here.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Why didn't the umps call this game? Why do they have the power to let this game continue after 2 hours of rain? Is someone not monitoring this from the commish office?

SirFelixCat
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
i wonder what mike leake is thinking right now.

Seriously. This is the 3rd huge lead he's had that has evaporated.

Blitz Dorsey
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Wow, there is still a chance Leake will get the W.

durl
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
The Reds still lead!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Why didn't the umps call this game? Why do they have the power to let this game continue after 2 hours of rain? Is someone not monitoring this from the commish office?
Oh don't blame the umps for this.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Dunn flies out to right. 8-7 Reds mid 6th.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Good thing that was off the end of the bat.

redsfaninbsg
07-20-2010, 11:53 PM
Better get some more runs.

toledodan
07-20-2010, 11:53 PM
Good thing that was off the end of the bat.


what i was thinking as well

Chip R
07-20-2010, 11:53 PM
Why didn't the umps call this game? Why do they have the power to let this game continue after 2 hours of rain? Is someone not monitoring this from the commish office?

I think they only call the game if it looks like the rain won't stop. They knew the rain would stop eventually so they didn't call it. The Nats are sure glad they didn't.

kbrake
07-20-2010, 11:53 PM
i wonder what mike leake is thinking right now.

Probably "hey I've seen this twice already"

Dusty will be ripping into some guys after that inning. I'm not always a big yelling and screaming guy but hope he let's them have it.

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2010, 11:53 PM
It amazes me that folks here piled up Owings for being bad, but more or less gave Bray a pass. I saw a minimal amount of ripping on Bray and a lot of ripping on Owings.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
It amazes me that folks here piled up Owings for being bad, but more or less gave Bray a pass. I saw a minimal amount of ripping on Bray and a lot of ripping on Owings.
Bray sucks.

Better?

flyer85
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
where is that Chapman fella. Sure seems like Arthur could use some help.

VR
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
I'd like to see the Reds run differential this year after rain delays. I'm not sure if they go in the clubhouse and watch high school musical or what, but more often than not these games seem to be twilight zone episodes.

dsmith421
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
It amazes me that folks here piled up Owings for being bad, but more or less gave Bray a pass. I saw a minimal amount of ripping on Bray and a lot of ripping on Owings.

OH THE HUMANITY.

OK, Bray sucked today too.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
Tyler Clippard in to pitch

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:54 PM
I blame Price and Dusty for trying to put fodder out there in a game only in the 6th inning. Use those guys to mop up. Owings and Bray pitched one inning, allowed 3 hits, 3 walks, hit a batter and 6 runs. And we ought to feel sorry that they hadn't p;itched in awhile? Give me a break.

forfreelin04
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Oh don't blame the umps for this.

Or Micah owings apparently.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
I blame Price and Dusty for trying to put fodder out there in a game only in the 6th inning. Use those guys to mop up. Owings and Bray pitched one inning, allowed 3 hits, 3 walks, hit a batter and 6 runs. And we ought to feel sorry that they hadn't p;itched in awhile? Give me a break.
It's a 7 run lead against the NATIONALS. You can't pitch three pitchers everyday.

kaldaniels
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Tyler Clippard in to pitch

Man, he's all greased up or something. I'm blinded by his forearms.

flyer85
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Bray and D'artagnan get lit up on the same night, what a coincidence.

mdccclxix
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Please Dusty put Rolen in for an inning to ensure this win.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Cabrera flies out to right.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Or Micah owings apparently.
Nationals are a good hitting team.

Or something.

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Janish flies out to center.

Chip R
07-20-2010, 11:56 PM
It's a 7 run lead against the NATIONALS. You can't pitch three pitchers everyday.

If you can't hold a 7 run lead against a team like the Nats, those pitchers should not be in the big leagues.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:57 PM
We had better put someone good in to pitch if we want to win.

redsfaninbsg
07-20-2010, 11:57 PM
If you can't hold a 7 run lead against a team like the Nats, those pitchers should not be in the big leagues.

This.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2010, 11:57 PM
Agreed.

reds44
07-20-2010, 11:57 PM
We had better put someone good in to pitch if we want to win.
It's Masset/Rhodes/Cordero time.

I'm putting money on CoCo blowing it in the 9th.

CTA513
07-20-2010, 11:57 PM
Nationals are a good hitting team.

Or something.

The Nationals could be good if all they had to do was hit and not field or pitch.

:D

Reds Fanatic
07-20-2010, 11:58 PM
Votto flies out to left. That was a 7 pitch inning. 8-7 Reds after 6.

mdccclxix
07-20-2010, 11:59 PM
With all the barn burners in the league tonight I was worried about this one catching on.

durl
07-20-2010, 11:59 PM
Votto flies out to left. That was a 7 pitch inning. 8-7 Reds after 6.

I'm surprised the Nats defense wasn't rusty after batting for so long in the top of the inning.

forfreelin04
07-20-2010, 11:59 PM
It's Masset/Rhodes/Cordero time.

I'm putting money on CoCo blowing it in the 9th.

I'm betting on them tying it, and this game being the longest game in history.

TeamBoone
07-20-2010, 11:59 PM
It amazes me that folks here piled up Owings for being bad, but more or less gave Bray a pass. I saw a minimal amount of ripping on Bray and a lot of ripping on Owings.

Oh for Pete's sake. Give it up already.

Kc61
07-20-2010, 11:59 PM
The decision to use Owings in a "winning" game is terrible. Use him in a losing blowout. Guy hasn't pitched in sixteen days, hasn't the manager learned not to mess around with leads?

You don't give a guy "work" in a winning game. You give him work in a losing blowout.

As for Bray, he just didn't have it, can't blame Dusty for his outing. But Owings should never have been in this game.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
Blame it on Dusty? :rolleyes:

Cripes....I thought my credibility was shot by blaming it on the umps.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
Masset in to pitch

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm usually not negative but does anyone honestly feel like we will win this?

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
I don't get it. People rip Dusty for not pitching Owings in 2 weeks, then rip him for pitching Owings with a lead.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
Oh for Pete's sake. Give it up already.

Sorry that you don't like me pointing out obvious biases that exist here.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:01 AM
Sorry that you don't like me pointing out obvious biases that exist here.
I hear Drew Sutton can pitch.

TeamBoone
07-21-2010, 12:01 AM
Sorry that you don't like me pointing out obvious biases that exist here.

Not my gripe. Being a broken record is.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:01 AM
I'm usually not negative but does anyone honestly feel like we will win this?

I've got a very Atlanta, Philly feeling right now. :thumbdown

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:01 AM
I don't get it. People rip Dusty for not pitching Owings in 2 weeks, then rip him for pitching Owings with a lead.
seems to me there must be a reason he hasn't pitched for so ling(like maybe he sucks), so why run him out there with a lead.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Not my gripe. Being a broken record is.

2 mentions is a broken record? Ok.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Zimmerman strikes out swinging.

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Sorry that you don't like me pointing out obvious biases that exist here.

Micah is that you posting from the dugout?

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Sorry that you don't like me pointing out obvious biases that exist here.

Biases work both ways, you know. Owings and Bray have shown me nothing as long as they've been here.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Blame it on Dusty? :rolleyes:

Cripes....I thought my credibility was shot by blaming it on the umps.


Yes, I blame the decision to put Owings in the game. Also, Cairo should have had the shot down third that led to the seventh run, so I blame him too.

But you have to protect leads. I wanted Jordan Smith to begin that last inning, not Owings who hasn't pitched in over two weeks.

Can't believe this is happening again, if it does.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Masset is making me feel warm and fuzzy though...

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
seems to me there must be a reason he hasn't pitched for so ling(like maybe he sucks), so why run him out there with a lead.
He's the long guy. With a 7 run lead in the 6th inning, you go to the long guy.

Nasty pitch from Nick.

TheNext44
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Owings was the perfect guy to pitch in that situation. That is why you have a long man. The fact that he couldn't get it done does not make it a bad decision.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Owings was the perfect guy to pitch in that situation. That is why you have a long man. The fact that he couldn't get it done does not make it a bad decision.

We've had this debate before haven't we?

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Micah is that you posting from the dugout?

you just don't get it, but it's okay.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Biases work both ways, you know. Owings and Bray have shown me nothing as long as they've been here.They have shown me quite a bit. Owings can hit for power and Bray can't get people out consistently.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
I am prematurely dreading Coco v. Dunn in the 9th.

dsmith421
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Well, part of the issue is that we haven't been blown out in forever. Plus the starters are pitching lights out. So there's no work for the long man. I don't think Owings is anything special but he's not that atrocious. Nor is Bray, who may not have pitched to the righty under "normal" circumstances.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:03 AM
I am prematurely dreading Coco v. Dunn in the 9th.
It's gonna happen.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:04 AM
Owings was the perfect guy to pitch in that situation. That is why you have a long man. The fact that he couldn't get it done does not make it a bad decision.

Just don't agree. A pitcher can't be expected to be sharp after such a long layoff.

Owings is a better pitcher than that, I don't blame him, but he needs work. If he doesn't get it, then just pitch him in the blowout losses for awhile.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:04 AM
Nick is throwing filth right now.

Here comes a homer.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:04 AM
He's the long guy. With a 7 run lead in the 6th inning, you go to the long guy.

Nasty pitch from Nick.down 7 in the 6th is when you use the long guy.

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:04 AM
If Dusty can't run Owings out when its 8-1 against the Nationals Owings should not be pitching on this level. Leake had not pitched in 11 days and he managed to not crap all down his leg. Owings sucked because he sucked. I'm just glad Dusty didn't watch him blow the entire lead. Bray wasn't good either. Not on Dusty though.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
I just wish either Owings or Bray had died throwing strikes. Watching them issue walk after walk to give free runners is maddening. And no way to keep a comfortable lead.

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
Owings was the perfect guy to pitch in that situation. That is why you have a long man. The fact that he couldn't get it done does not make it a bad decision.

Agreed. If you can't pitch Owings in that spot, you shouldn't even have him on the roster.

Why are they carrying Owings if they don't use him? They don't even use him as a PH anymore. You could drop him and bring up someone for the bench.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
Just don't agree. A pitcher can't be expected to be sharp after such a long layoff.

Owings is a better pitcher than that, I don't blame him, but he needs work. If he doesn't get it, then just pitch him in the blowout losses for awhile.

Amen

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
Willingham fouls out to 1st. 2 outs.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
If Dusty can't run Owings out when its 8-1 against the Nationals Owings should be pitching on this level.now we may be on to something

TheNext44
07-21-2010, 12:06 AM
seems to me there must be a reason he hasn't pitched for so ling(like maybe he sucks), so why run him out there with a lead.

He's the long man. He pitches in situations just like this, and none had occurred in a few weeks. A big reason for that is that the All-Star break happened.

It's a funky night. Rain delay's produce strange innings.

dsmith421
07-21-2010, 12:06 AM
Very nice job by Masset.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:06 AM
Just don't agree. A pitcher can't be expected to be sharp after such a long layoff.

Owings is a better pitcher than that, I don't blame him, but he needs work. If he doesn't get it, then just pitch him in the blowout losses for awhile.
The last time we lost a game by more than 3 runs June 19th. The last time we were "blown out" was June 15th.

He will never pitch by that logic.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Bernadina grounds out to 2nd. Good inning by Masset. 8-7 Reds mid 7th.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Sure would love to see the Reds push across a few more runs here.

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
I may have to stop calling Masset "Gas Can".

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
The last time we lost a game by more than 3 runs June 19th. The last time we were "blown out" was June 15th.

He will never pitch by that logic.

Gotta say, I would be okay with that.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
down 7 in the 6th is when you use the long guy.
The last time we were down anywhere close to that was June 15th.

That's well over a month ago.

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:07 AM
now we may be on to something


Should NOT, my bad.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:08 AM
The last time we lost a game by more than 3 runs June 19th. The last time we were "blown out" was June 15th.

He will never pitch by that logic.

There are plenty of other times Dusty could have given Owings work, and chose not to. You can blame Owings all you want...and I'm not even saying he's a good pitcher, but I think your expectations are a bit lofty.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:08 AM
I just wish either Owings or Bray had died throwing strikes. Watching them issue walk after walk to give free runners is maddening. And no way to keep a comfortable lead.This.

Bray's big fault throughout these last 4 years has been getting ahead in the count and then throwing crazy pitches out of the zone hoping people will bite. It doesn't work--never has never will unless you're Marino Rivera or the HGH hyped Eric Gagne. Doesn't work for Codero and will never work for Bray. Yet he tries. And using the back of the bullpen is Dusty's fault. It was his decision and it caused 6 runs.

TheNext44
07-21-2010, 12:08 AM
I may have to stop calling Masset "Gas Can".

No, keep it up, at least until it's true again.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:08 AM
There are plenty of other times Dusty could have given Owings work, and chose not to. You can blame Owings all you want...and I'm not even saying he's a good pitcher, but I think your expectations are a bit lofty.
WHEN? Seriously, give me an example.

So some people are saying not to ever use him with a lead, but somehow there have been plenty of chances to use him since then?

It makes no sense.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:09 AM
the part that Dusty still has never figured out is that sometimes the most important outs in the game aren't in the 8th or 9th inning. SHould have brought in Rhodes to finish off Harris, killed the rally and then there likely won't be another important pitch in the game. However, Dusty's dice don't allow for pitching Rhodes in the 6th.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:09 AM
He's the long man. He pitches in situations just like this, and none had occurred in a few weeks. A big reason for that is that the All-Star break happened.

It's a funky night. Rain delay's produce strange innings.

I think you have to separate titles and roles from being ready to do the job.

Yes, he's a long man. Yes, it should be Owings' role.

But he hasn't pitched in weeks. After two meltdowns of epic proportions Dusty should realize that a six or seven run lead is not safe and he can't treat a game like this as an opportunity to give Owings work.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:09 AM
My expectations for Owings were that he would throw the ball over the plate. By and large, he did not do that. Layoff or not, that is pretty clearly unacceptable to me in that spot.

Throw strikes, if they hit it, fine, but up 7 and issuing all those free runners? Pretty poor.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:09 AM
WHEN?

So some people are saying not to ever use him with a lead, but somehow there have been plenty of chances to use him since then?

It makes no sense.

I agreed with KC, but I think Owings should have received work in other situations leading up until tonight.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
I think you have to separate titles and roles from being ready to do the job.

Yes, he's a long man. Yes, it should be Owings' role.

But he hasn't pitched in weeks. After two meltdowns of epic proportions Dusty should realize that a six or seven run lead is not safe and he can't treat a game like this as an opportunity to give Owings work.
That's what he did in Philly. He didn't use any "bad pitchers" in the game, it was Leake and Cordero and then Rhodes in the 10th.

Dusty literally can't win sometimes.

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Let's move on from the Owings/Bray debacle and get back to the game.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Gomes strikes out swinging.

redsfaninbsg
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Owings and Bray need to be replaced in the pen. Whether it be Chapman, Springer, or Izzy.

durl
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Gomes strikes out swinging at a ball in his armpit.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
For the record, I don't think Dusty did anything wrong. It's on his players. In this case, his pen. They failed.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
I love these guys essentially walking through whole sections looking for a ball.

TheNext44
07-21-2010, 12:11 AM
I think you have to separate titles and roles from being ready to do the job.

Yes, he's a long man. Yes, it should be Owings' role.

But he hasn't pitched in weeks. After two meltdowns of epic proportions Dusty should realize that a six or seven run lead is not safe and he can't treat a game like this as an opportunity to give Owings work.

If that is true, might as well pack it in and go home for the season. If a team doesn't feel comfortable with a 5 run lead, then they have no business competing.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:11 AM
the Nats back end of the pen isn't bad with Storen, Clippard and Capps. The Reds are going to have to hold the fort.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
Bruce strikes out swinging.

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
the part that Dusty still has never figured out is that sometimes the most important outs in the game aren't in the 8th or 9th inning. SHould have brought in Rhodes to finish off Harris, killed the rally and then there likely won't be another important pitch in the game. However, Dusty's dice don't allow for pitching Rhodes in the 6th.


Then tomorrow people are crying that Rhodes is getting used too much and it makes no sense to throw him when up 8-3. Rhodes can't go every night other guys have to pick it up. Bray walked a crap hitter its his fault. Not dusty's.

dsmith421
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
I don't see us scoring a ninth run in this game. So we need six clean outs. Yikes.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
It might be a bit much to ask, but I'd like to see Masset go out and pitch the 8th. He looked very good.

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
I agreed with KC, but I think Owings should have received work in other situations leading up until tonight.

I agree with you in him being used once in those 16 days, but to use it has a scapegoat for not throwing strikes is naive.

durl
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
Have any Red ever gotten a hit off of Clippard?

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:12 AM
Bruce is just lost right now. Horrible at bat.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:13 AM
Then tomorrow people are crying that Rhodes is getting used too much and it makes no sense to throw him when up 8-3. Rhodes can't go every night other guys have to pick it up. Bray walked a crap hitter its his fault. Not dusty's.
Yep.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:13 AM
I want another rain delay. The natives are getting wrestless in here lol

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:13 AM
after such a long layoff you have to expect anything. Dusty doesn't want to pitch Owings but by not pitching him he is asking for trouble when he runs him out there every other week. There really is no reason for Owings to be on this roster.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
I agree with you in him being used once in those 16 days, but to use it has a scapegoat for not throwing strikes is naive.

It's not scapegoating. Command is likely to be off when you haven't pitched in a game in 16 days.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
Cairo grounds out to 3rd. 8-7 Reds after 7.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
Owings hasn't done enough PH for me to find him irreplacable.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
Then tomorrow people are crying that Rhodes is getting used too much and it makes no sense to throw him when up 8-3. Rhodes can't go every night other guys have to pick it up. Bray walked a crap hitter its his fault. Not dusty's.now instead of pitching 1/3 of an inning Rhodes is likely to pitch the entire 8th inning. The thing is Dusty never considered it.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
Owings hasn't done enough PH for me to find him irreplacable.:)

Ditto

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
I agree with you in him being used once in those 16 days, but to use it has a scapegoat for not throwing strikes is naive.

Not naive. It's what happened. And it was predictable that Owings would have trouble.

Hopefully Rhodes and Cordero will have their good stuff tonight and put this to bed because the Reds' offense seems about done for the evening.

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
It's not scapegoating. Command is likely to be off when you haven't pitched in a game in 16 days.

This is the Major Leagues not Little League. Some of these pitchers throw strikes in their sleep

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
Maybe this team just needs some kind of clubhouse exoricism to get rid of the bad mojo that is weirdly hovering over them in games like this.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Maybe this team just needs some kind of clubhouse exoricism to get rid of the bad mojo that is weirdly hovering over them in games like this.
A better bullpen would go a long way.

GADawg
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
i tivo the games and watch them when I get home from work...this allows me to fast forward through Jay's ab's...unfortunately I've caught up to live TV and had to watch that one. I dunno Jay...shorten your swing a little? quit smoothing out the batters box between every pitch and get in there and get ready to hit?

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Masset stays in.

OldRightHander
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Fuel stop on an all nighter with 500 miles to go. Nice to have some late baseball to keep me perked up a bit longer...as long as they hold on for the win. A rain shortened win might have been better for the pen though.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Masset stays in for the 8th

kaldaniels
07-21-2010, 12:17 AM
now instead of pitching 1/3 of an inning Rhodes is likely to pitch the entire 8th inning. The thing is Dusty never considered it.

I agree! This is an outrage! What...Masset on to start the 8th....nevermind.

dsmith421
07-21-2010, 12:17 AM
I always have the goo about these rain delays. It's like it awakens ten years of muscle memory of playing in completely meaningless games where the #1 priority is getting to the hotel/plane/home as soon as possible.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:17 AM
A better bullpen would go a long way.which is the real issue. No reason not to give Chapman a shot.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:18 AM
A better bullpen would go a long way.

Perhaps. But still, it's weird, this kind of thing had not happened in 45 years, and now maybe a third time in a month?

Even with the worst pens, it's still beyond unusual.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:18 AM
A better bullpen would go a long way.


FWIW, i've never believed in a "long man" in the pen. Guy seldom pitches. Particularly when you have good starters.

I'd rather have a couple of good middle relievers who can go multiple innings.

Owings is a decent pitcher but he doesn't have much of a role on this team. He should be starting for some club.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Clearly after reading these posts....the guys who just do not like Dusty....find any nugget to pin this on him. How about blaming Walt for keeping Owings up here and sending bray up here to pitch?

How about blaming Bray for pitching pretty good up until tonight ...in order to fool Dusty into thinking he was good?

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Rodriguez grounds out to short. 1 out.

nemesis
07-21-2010, 12:18 AM
Heard in the backgroung at GABP:

"Jason? Walt. Add another Zero to that offer."

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:19 AM
which is the real issue. No reason not to give Chapman a shot.
Aren't we all complaining about Owings' and Bray's control?

Wait until you see Chapman. Besides the fact, there's plenty of reasons not to call up Chapman. The first reason being, him coming up and getting blow torched being bad for his development.

Call him up when he's ready, not because Owings/Bray suck.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:19 AM
I agree! This is an outrage! What...Masset on to start the 8th....nevermind.I'd pitch Rhodes as much as he has to. Guy may break down but at age 40 who cares. Dusty should ride those veterans as hard as he has to at this point.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:19 AM
Really good outing by Masset. Rhodes in to pitch.

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:19 AM
which is the real issue. No reason not to give Chapman a shot.



Agreed.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:20 AM
This is the Major Leagues not Little League. Some of these pitchers throw strikes in their sleep

How many of them have had 16 days off in between appearances?

I just saw Chip asked above that we stop discussing this, so if you want to discuss further, take it private. Thanks.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:20 AM
Clearly after reading these posts....the guys who just do not like Dusty....find any nugget to pin this on him. How about blaming Walt for keeping Owings up here and sending bray up here to pitch?

How about blaming Bray for pitching pretty good up until tonight ...in order to fool Dusty into thinking he was good?

I have always been a Dusty fan and I defend him constantly.

But I didn't like the Owings move tonight. Not after the Atlanta and Philly debacles.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:20 AM
Call him up when he's ready, not because Owings/Bray suck.because those guys suck and Chapman will have more success than him he is ready. Marmol makes Chapman look like a control pitcher.

HotCorner
07-21-2010, 12:21 AM
Not a big fan of the double switch here at the expense of losing Bruce's defense.

Cedric
07-21-2010, 12:21 AM
So Nix is double switched for Bruce?

That obviously means Rhodes is expected to pitch into the 9th...

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:21 AM
Not a big fan of the double switch here at the expense of losing Bruce's defense.

I really don't understand that move. Nix is not an upgrade with the bat or the glove.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:21 AM
what they brought Rhodes in ... say it cannot be.

VR
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Nice to see Massett continue his solid pitching.

Massett/ Ondrusek
Rhodes/Bray

I'm very ok w/ finishing out the year with those 4.

HotCorner
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
And Gomes remains in LF.

mbgrayson
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
I really don't understand that move. Nix is not an upgrade with the bat or the glove.

It's passed Jay's bedtime.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
because those guys suck and Chapman will have more success than him he is ready. Marmol makes Chapman look like a control pitcher.
If you think he's ready, than fine.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
So Nix is double switched for Bruce?

That obviously means Rhodes is expected to pitch into the 9th...They may try to keep Rhodes in to face Dunn.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
And Gomes remains in LF.

Yeah...why not put Nix there? Or replace him with Heisey??

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Kennedy grounds out to Rhodes. 2 outs.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
I really don't understand that move. Nix is not an upgrade with the bat or the glove.double switches are smart managing(Bob Boone said so), get with the program.

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Perhaps. But still, it's weird, this kind of thing had not happened in 45 years, and now maybe a third time in a month?

Even with the worst pens, it's still beyond unusual.

Honestly, the 1-0 losses bother me more.

Don't be surprised if the epic meltdown happens to the Cards again soon. I've been on both sides in epic meltdowns, there is certain stars aligning aspect to it. It's like slipping into heaven and he'll depending on the dugout your in.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
I did not mean you Kc61.

OK...well this is a weird/dumb move by Dusty to me. Would rather see Heisey in there.

VR
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
It's passed Jay's bedtime.

that's kind of funny.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
If you think he's ready, than fine.I take a hard throwing bat missing lefty over that pair any night.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
Guzman hittnig for Clippard

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Guzman lines out to center. 8-7 Reds after 8.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
I take a hard throwing bat missing lefty over that pair any night.
Fair enough, I don't even disagree with you.

Get more runs.

kaldaniels
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
How many of them have had 16 days off in between appearances?

I just saw Chip asked above that we stop discussing this, so if you want to discuss further, take it private. Thanks.

The trap has been set...will anyone take the bait?

mbgrayson
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Guzman hittnig for Clippard

Good. Glad to have Clippard out of there.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
FWIW, i've never believed in a "long man" in the pen. Guy seldom pitches. Particularly when you have good starters.

I'd rather have a couple of good middle relievers who can go multiple innings.

Owings is a decent pitcher but he doesn't have much of a role on this team. He should be starting for some club.Decent? I'm not sure I'd use that term. When the Reds traded for him, I expected him to improve, but he has degressed. We've tried to start him with Josh Fogg results. Now he's in the bullpen with not good results. For his career, the guy has a 1.418 WHIP and a 5.03 ERA (before tonight). Sorry, he's way below average and the same can be said for the oft-injured Bray.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:25 AM
the best thing about Owings has always been his bat, not a good thing if you are a pitcher.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2010, 12:26 AM
Bray had been doing pretty good before tonight. I hope someone has areal talk with him...about the Harris AB. One which includes raising of voices and threats of more Triple A meal money.

So they took Ryan Duren out? Great.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:26 AM
How about one more run here to provide a cushion for the Reds. Matt Capps is in so the Nats are really going for this one.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:26 AM
Capps in to pitch

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
Is Dunn due to leadoff the 9th?

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
When the Reds traded for him, I expected him to improveI didn't. He basically is a sinker/slider pitcher with no out pitch and suspect command and no upside (other than his power)

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
Is Dunn due to leadoff the 9th?No he is due up 3rd. Morse, Desmond and Dunn up

VR
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
The obvious problem with Reds 'long man' is these silly starters keep going out there and throwing 6+ innings. It's almost unbearable.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
Check that, no he's not.

The double switch makes no sense.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Stubbs grounds out to 3rd.

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Zimmerman would look great in a Reds uni

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Zim is an amazing 3b.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Bray had been doing pretty good before tonight. small sample size. His career has been nothing but mediocrity at best.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Gonna have to make 8 stand up.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
Miller grounds out to short. 2 outs.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
The obvious problem with Reds 'long man' is these silly starters keep going out there and throwing 6+ innings. It's almost unbearable.

There's no rule in baseball that you must have a long man. Many teams don't.

Two out for the Reds.

Cedric
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
No... even Dusty wouldn't double switch Nix there if he didn't expect Rhodes to pitch into the 9th.

Makes no sense any other way.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
Zimmerman would look great in a Reds uni

+1

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
For the love of God, get him home.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Nix doubles to left.

mbgrayson
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Attendance tonight is 22,876.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
I think the last time I saw bullpen meltdowns this bad was the 1998-99 Seattle bullpens.....manned by the former Red.... last name of Ayala.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Attendance tonight is 22,876.
Attendance right now: 76

kbrake
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Where was that swing on Sunday Nix? Got the same pitch 14 times in a row

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
No... even Dusty wouldn't double switch Nix there if he didn't expect Rhodes to pitch into the 9th.

Makes no sense any other way.
IMO coco will pitch the 9th. Dusty makes numerous moves that don't make much sense.

mdccclxix
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Nix was a doubles machine when he started.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:30 AM
I have no idea why I am still up except that I am so keyed up I can't sleep.

And listen to people continue to justify The Trade on the hope of Billy Bray. So be it. I just wish we could trade the Washington bullpen pitchers for a few of ours. Look at their ERA's.

Cedric
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
IMO coco will pitch the 9th. Dusty makes numerous moves that don't make much sense.

But this wouldn't even be halfway understandable. I don't think even callers on the banana phone would have done that double switch if CoCo starts the 9th..

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
RBI guy up after Nix doubled.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
Well here we go.

Reds Fanatic
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
Cabrera pops out to short. 8-7 after 8.

Cordero coming in to pitch

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
But this wouldn't even be halfway understandable. I don't think even callers on the banana phone would have done that double switch if CoCo starts the 9th..
we shall see.

durl
07-21-2010, 12:32 AM
I have the sinking feeling that this one won't end 8-7.

mbgrayson
07-21-2010, 12:33 AM
Time for that patented 'CorderoCoaster'.

redsfaninbsg
07-21-2010, 12:33 AM
I got offline for a while, but why would you bring in Cordero if you double switched? Bruce>Nix in RF, no?

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:33 AM
It's up to CoCo. I'm heading for the nitroglycerine right now. I holpe it takes effect in time to prevent the fatal coronary thrombosis.

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:33 AM
OC pops to SS. Here comes Coco.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:33 AM
I got offline for a while, but why would you bring in Cordero if you double switched? Bruce>Nix in RF, no?
It makes no sense. That was a double switch just to double switch.

flyer85
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
It makes no sense.
welcome to Dusty's world

nemesis
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
It makes no sense. That was a double switch just to double switch.

Dusty showing Walt he wasn't alseep.

reds44
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
I remember one time Dusty double switched in Toronto last year. That was interesting.

CrackerJack
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
Showcasing Nix? :)

forfreelin04
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
RBI guy up after Nix doubled.

Lately all I've seen is a tendency to hit a grounder to second with less than 2 outs. I'm slowly coming around to disliking OC. He hasn't hit the way I thought he would at Gabp.

fearofpopvol1
07-21-2010, 12:34 AM
I'd rather see Smith or Ondrusek.

C'mon CoCo...shut it down.

Chip R
07-21-2010, 12:35 AM
Lately all I've seen is a tendency to hit a grounder to second with less than 2 outs. I'm slowly coming around to disliking OC. He hasn't hit the way I thought he would at Gabp.

He had a nice series against the Rockies.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2010, 12:35 AM
Pray.

membengal
07-21-2010, 12:35 AM
Not sure I can watch this.

May turn it off and follow along just the comments in here.