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View Full Version : Mesoraco Minor League POTY Candidate



NorrisHopper30
07-20-2010, 07:05 PM
http://minors.mlblogs.com/

According to Mayo.


Devin Mesoraco, C, Reds: Talk about a breakout. The 2007 first-rounder has split the year between the Class A advanced Carolina League and Double-A Southern League, not exactly known as hitting-friendly circuits. Neverthleless, the 22-year-old Mesoraco has hit a combined .319/.389/.631 in 80 games. His 1.021 OPS is good for eighth overall. He's got 20 homers and 53 RBIs. And he's thrown out 42 percent of would-be base stealers. Not a bad combination of skills.

GIDP
07-20-2010, 10:20 PM
If he was on the radar prior to the season he might win it, but I guess if hes a candidate thats just as good considering.

nemesis
07-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Be shocked if anyone but Dominic Brown won it. I am surprised he isn't mentioned. Arencibia is having one heck of a year but if the Jays move Buck he'll be in Jay Land the next day.

dougdirt
07-20-2010, 11:06 PM
Be shocked if anyone but Dominic Brown won it. I am surprised he isn't mentioned. Arencibia is having one heck of a year but if the Jays move Buck he'll be in Jay Land the next day.

The award is Brown's to lose. Mike Trout and Mike Moustakas are in the conversation as well.

BRM
07-21-2010, 10:43 AM
He's got to be the leading candidate for the Reds Minor League POTY. Right? I'm guessing not many picked him as a front-runner for that award back in March.

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 12:51 PM
He's got to be the leading candidate for the Reds Minor League POTY. Right? I'm guessing not many picked him as a front-runner for that award back in March.
No one else is close. Donnie Joseph has been flat out dominant, but as a reliever, you just can't put that in the same class. No one else has been flat dominant like those two guys.

GIDP
07-21-2010, 12:54 PM
Seriously who would be second? Juan Francisco or Joseph, then its basically who wins the award for having the most mediocre season.

camisadelgolf
07-21-2010, 01:03 PM
I'd pick Dave Sappelt or possibly Danny Dorn before I picked Juan Francisco. The Reds' minor league pitcher of the year will go to Donnie Joseph, Matt Klinker, Matt Maloney, or Jordan Hotchkiss.

GIDP
07-21-2010, 01:06 PM
I'd pick Dave Sappelt or possibly Danny Dorn before I picked Juan Francisco. The Reds' minor league pitcher of the year will go to Donnie Joseph, Matt Klinker, Matt Maloney, or Jordan Hotchkiss.

Sappelt is probably a 2nd place guy now that I think about it.

flash
07-21-2010, 01:43 PM
No one else is close. Donnie Joseph has been flat out dominant, but as a reliever, you just can't put that in the same class. No one else has been flat dominant like those two guys.

Sappelt is only leading the Southern league in batting, has a .520 slg avg and a ops of .904. He also has a obp of .384.

Surprised no one mentioned the Cubs catching prospect Robinson Chirinos
Avg .319
Slg. .597
OBP .407
OPS 1.004

That is for a full season at AA.

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 01:47 PM
Overall though Sappelt is only at an .857 OPS. Guy has had a very good year, but it hasn't quite been dominant. Yet. Still a 6 weeks left to get to that point.

GOYA
07-21-2010, 02:20 PM
Player ERA G SV IP H R ER HR HB BB SO WHIP HLD GF
Carlos Fisher 1.86 23 4 29.0 13 6 6 4 0 6 30 0.66 7 8

Donnie Joseph 1.52 19 9 23.2 12 4 4 2 1 8 40 0.85 1 17

That's a pretty good battle for best reliever. Fisher has 25% less Ks but he also has 25% less walks. Fisher has a decidedly better BAA.

For both of them, if anyone wants to score a run against them, they'd better hit a HR. Chances drop off a cliff if they don't.

Still, I think the edge has to go to Joseph.

mace
07-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I didn't realize Fisher was having the season that he is. Good call, goya. By those numbers, you could make a very good case for him as the top reliever, at least. And unlike so many of the Louisville players, Fisher hasn't been compromised by the slumping that seems to accompany the disappointment of not sticking with the big club.

GIDP
07-21-2010, 03:29 PM
Player ERA G SV IP H R ER HR HB BB SO WHIP HLD GF
Carlos Fisher 1.86 23 4 29.0 13 6 6 4 0 6 30 0.66 7 8

Donnie Joseph 1.52 19 9 23.2 12 4 4 2 1 8 40 0.85 1 17

That's a pretty good battle for best reliever. Fisher has 25% less Ks but he also has 25% less walks. Fisher has a decidedly better BAA.

For both of them, if anyone wants to score a run against them, they'd better hit a HR. Chances drop off a cliff if they don't.

Still, I think the edge has to go to Joseph.

Thats not Josephs full season stats though. He also had another 23 innings in low A with 40 strike outs and 7 walks.

GOYA
07-21-2010, 03:45 PM
And unlike so many of the Louisville players, Fisher hasn't been compromised by the slumping that seems to accompany the disappointment of not sticking with the big club.

Fisher had one very bad outing in his 2nd game back from the Reds. (June 5)
He also gave up a run in his 1st appearance back from the Reds.


Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Fisher (BS, 1) 0.2 2 3 3 1 0 2 3.72

And yes, it's true I didn't post Joseph's low A numbers. I kinda figure he was placed in the wrong league then.

TRF
07-21-2010, 04:05 PM
Overall though Sappelt is only at an .857 OPS. Guy has had a very good year, but it hasn't quite been dominant. Yet. Still a 6 weeks left to get to that point.

it was only 19 games at High A. I'd say he's been fairly dominant.

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 04:54 PM
it was only 19 games at High A. I'd say he's been fairly dominant.

But it was 19 pretty bad games with a sub .700 OPS. I can't call a guy with an .860 OPS fairly dominant. He has been good, maybe even very good.

TRF
07-21-2010, 05:08 PM
a .905 OPS against tougher competition, and a larger sample size. And I read he's a good defender too. That is pretty dominant. Not Mez dominant, but he should be in the discussion for Reds minor league POTY.

GIDP
07-21-2010, 05:10 PM
a .905 OPS against tougher competition, and a larger sample size. And I read he's a good defender too. That is pretty dominant. Not Mez dominant, but he should be in the discussion for Reds minor league POTY.

I dont know if anyone is disagreeing but there is also "of the year" on the award. I think you have to take in the bad time he had into the equation when you are handing out some hardware like that.

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 05:11 PM
a .905 OPS against tougher competition, and a larger sample size. And I read he's a good defender too. That is pretty dominant. Not Mez dominant, but he should be in the discussion for Reds minor league POTY.

The player of the year is for that, the year. It isn't player of the year looking at your last stop.

TRF
07-21-2010, 05:18 PM
The player of the year is for that, the year. It isn't player of the year looking at your last stop.

Thanks for clearing that up. So if he finishes the year at AA with an OPS of .905+ he shouldn't be in the discussion because of 19 games. At the beginning of the year.


gotcha.


I dont know if anyone is disagreeing but there is also "of the year" on the award. I think you have to take in the bad time he had into the equation when you are handing out some hardware like that.

see above. it was 19 games.

I'm not saying he should win the award. That should be Mesoraco. I'm saying he's in the conversation right now.

GIDP
07-21-2010, 05:20 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. So if he finishes the year at AA with an OPS of .905+ he shouldn't be in the discussion because of 19 games. At the beginning of the year.


gotcha.



see above. it was 19 games.

Being in the discussion is fine, but based off his year he isnt really close to a couple other guys. Lets say at the end of the year his stats are through the roof, he will be in the discusion just as much as anyone, but yes those first 19 games cant be ignored.

TRF
07-21-2010, 05:34 PM
Being in the discussion is fine, but based off his year he isnt really close to a couple other guys. Lets say at the end of the year his stats are through the roof, he will be in the discusion just as much as anyone, but yes those first 19 games cant be ignored.

Say his stats are through the roof. He goes on a monster tear in August, pushing his OPS to well over 1.000+ wanna bet nobody in the Reds FO will give a whit about those 1st 19 games?

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 05:39 PM
Say his stats are through the roof. He goes on a monster tear in August, pushing his OPS to well over 1.000+ wanna bet nobody in the Reds FO will give a whit about those 1st 19 games?

That is the thing though, if he does that in August, it will probably push his season OPS over .900. In which case, he would have been dominant. But right now, he is sitting at.857 for the season.

11larkin11
07-21-2010, 05:43 PM
TRF vs. Doug

Sappelt is like the anti-Stubbs

GIDP
07-21-2010, 05:58 PM
Say his stats are through the roof. He goes on a monster tear in August, pushing his OPS to well over 1.000+ wanna bet nobody in the Reds FO will give a whit about those 1st 19 games?

Yes if his OPS is over 1.000 those first 19 games wont matter as much, but thats also just like if Mesoraco went into a slump and finished very poorly. The whole season worth of stats matter.

nemesis
07-21-2010, 06:17 PM
So after such a solid season at the dish and in the field where does this place Sappelt in the order of prospects in the Reds system still considered rookies? Top 10 -15?

Chapman
Wood
Mesoraco
Heisey
Alonso
Joseph
Cozart
Francisco
Frazier
Yorman
Hamilton
Duran
Soto
Sappelt

Mario-Rijo
07-21-2010, 07:24 PM
So after such a solid season at the dish and in the field where does this place Sappelt in the order of prospects in the Reds system still considered rookies? Top 10 -15?

Chapman
Wood
Mesoraco
Heisey
Alonso
Joseph
Cozart
Francisco
Frazier
Yorman
Hamilton
Duran
Soto
Sappelt

JMO but production doesn't necessarily equate to being a good prospect. I'd rather push guys ahead of him who have a better upside. Watching him play at Dayton he seemed like a poor mans Ryan Freel someday, IF he makes the proper adjustments. Poor arm, power is minimal (though decent for his size), needs to improve his approach at the plate for his talent to translate to the majors. Future backup CF type at best IMO. I'm thinking mid twenties as a ranking.

dougdirt
07-21-2010, 09:28 PM
JMO but production doesn't necessarily equate to being a good prospect. I'd rather push guys ahead of him who have a better upside. Watching him play at Dayton he seemed like a poor mans Ryan Freel someday, IF he makes the proper adjustments. Poor arm, power is minimal (though decent for his size), needs to improve his approach at the plate for his talent to translate to the majors. Future backup CF type at best IMO. I'm thinking mid twenties as a ranking.
Not sure if you knew this (I didn't until this season), but Sappelt had an arm injury last season. Perhaps that explains some of the throwing issues.

flash
07-21-2010, 11:48 PM
Lets take a closer look. Yes, Merasco has a higher OPS, but only with the bases empty. With runners only Sappelt had a OPS of 1.111 versus Merrasco's .862, with runners in scoring position sappelt beats merrasco 1.042 versus Merasco's .621. Merrasco has six errors this year versus 0 for Sappelt.

The only guy who beats Sappelt's Southern league totals is Robinson Chirinos who also beats merrasco's AA totals in average and OPS. So Merasco may not even be the best catcher let alone the POY

GIDP
07-22-2010, 12:31 AM
Lets take a closer look. Yes, Merasco has a higher OPS, but only with the bases empty. With runners only Sappelt had a OPS of 1.111 versus Merrasco's .862, with runners in scoring position sappelt beats merrasco 1.042 versus Merasco's .621. Merrasco has six errors this year versus 0 for Sappelt.

The only guy who beats Sappelt's Southern league totals is Robinson Chirinos who also beats merrasco's AA totals in average and OPS. So Merasco may not even be the best catcher let alone the POY

Yea I'm just going to quote this and say "No"

dougdirt
07-22-2010, 12:58 AM
Lets take a closer look. Yes, Merasco has a higher OPS, but only with the bases empty. With runners only Sappelt had a OPS of 1.111 versus Merrasco's .862, with runners in scoring position sappelt beats merrasco 1.042 versus Merasco's .621. Merrasco has six errors this year versus 0 for Sappelt.

The only guy who beats Sappelt's Southern league totals is Robinson Chirinos who also beats merrasco's AA totals in average and OPS. So Merasco may not even be the best catcher let alone the POY

Chirinos is also 26 years old.

BakoTheTako
07-22-2010, 02:19 AM
Lets take a closer look. Yes, Merasco has a higher OPS, but only with the bases empty. With runners only Sappelt had a OPS of 1.111 versus Merrasco's .862, with runners in scoring position sappelt beats merrasco 1.042 versus Merasco's .621. Merrasco has six errors this year versus 0 for Sappelt.

The only guy who beats Sappelt's Southern league totals is Robinson Chirinos who also beats merrasco's AA totals in average and OPS. So Merasco may not even be the best catcher let alone the POY

Merasco may have had an OPS of .862 with runners on and another guy named Merrasco may have had an OPS of .621 with runners in scoring position, but what were Mesoraco's stats in these situations?

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Not sure if you knew this (I didn't until this season), but Sappelt had an arm injury last season. Perhaps that explains some of the throwing issues.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Still I rank him mid twenties most likely.

dougdirt
07-22-2010, 03:23 PM
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Still I rank him mid twenties most likely.

I will be seeing him soon. I am going to be paying attention to the arm. If it is average, he is a top 15 prospect for me as long as nothing else jumps out as a red flag. If its still the same weak arm I saw last year, then he is closer to 20.

camisadelgolf
07-22-2010, 04:38 PM
I remember thinking Sappelt had a strong arm in college. I've heard reports of him having a weak arm, but I always doubted them. Had I known it was injury-related, I would've been more understanding of the claims.

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2010, 05:29 PM
I will be seeing him soon. I am going to be paying attention to the arm. If it is average, he is a top 15 prospect for me as long as nothing else jumps out as a red flag. If its still the same weak arm I saw last year, then he is closer to 20.

That high huh, what do you think about his bat as far as a major league projection goes? Just my thinking .270/.310/.390/.700, if he improves his plate discipline and base stealing % I like him alot more, but watching him he seems like your classic hacker who is about as undisciplined in every way i.e. baserunning, hitting and fielding.

He can help a team and if he improves those areas he can help quite a bit but at 23 his developing those tools ever is worrisome at best. Where would you rank guys lower (levels wise) than him but with higher upside like I don't know Valor, Arias, Fellhauser etc.

dougdirt
07-22-2010, 06:03 PM
That high huh, what do you think about his bat as far as a major league projection goes? Just my thinking .270/.310/.390/.700, if he improves his plate discipline and base stealing % I like him alot more, but watching him he seems like your classic hacker who is about as undisciplined in every way i.e. baserunning, hitting and fielding.

He can help a team and if he improves those areas he can help quite a bit but at 23 his developing those tools ever is worrisome at best. Where would you rank guys lower (levels wise) than him but with higher upside like I don't know Valor, Arias, Fellhauser etc.

He is and has been around 2-1 K-BB for his career. Not exactly a 'hacker'. Not sure where I would put Arias yet, need to talk to some people still about him. I am not so sure that Fellhauer has a higher upside than Sappelt simply because of the defense he brings. Valor, total wild card right now. Maybe back end of the 30's?

texasdave
07-22-2010, 09:14 PM
Can a player from the VSL be organizational POY? Ronald Torreyes is having a ridiculous season down there. After today's (07/22) game his slash line reads: .386/.464/.609/1.072. He has played 2B/3B/SS/LF. He has stolen 14 bases. He must be tough because he has been HBP 12 times. His LD% is a sick 31%.

nemesis
07-23-2010, 02:58 PM
Can a player from the VSL be organizational POY? Ronald Torreyes is having a ridiculous season down there. After today's (07/22) game his slash line reads: .386/.464/.609/1.072. He has played 2B/3B/SS/LF. He has stolen 14 bases. He must be tough because he has been HBP 12 times. His LD% is a sick 31%.

A boy who is a man among boys. I saw that LD% last night and was amazed. He has some zip in that swing for certain. His power numbers could jump off the page once he gets to the US and develops a better diet and workout regimen.

Mario-Rijo
07-23-2010, 06:09 PM
He is and has been around 2-1 K-BB for his career. Not exactly a 'hacker'. Not sure where I would put Arias yet, need to talk to some people still about him. I am not so sure that Fellhauer has a higher upside than Sappelt simply because of the defense he brings. Valor, total wild card right now. Maybe back end of the 30's?

I don't think K/BB is necessarily a good indication of whether or not one is a hacker it just proves he isn't a hacker with poor contact skills, neither is Willy Taveras. A better indicator is BB% and Sappelt while not completely inept (at the minor league level mind you) isn't much of a walker. He is walking at somewhere around 6.5% of the time, not Francisco bad but not great either. And unless he changes something that number should decrease as he moves forward. At the major league level we're talking maybe 30-40 BB's a season at best, not at all good especially for a guy who hopes to be a leadoff type.

dougdirt
07-23-2010, 07:39 PM
I don't think K/BB is necessarily a good indication of whether or not one is a hacker it just proves he isn't a hacker with poor contact skills, neither is Willy Taveras. A better indicator is BB% and Sappelt while not completely inept (at the minor league level mind you) isn't much of a walker. He is walking at somewhere around 6.5% of the time, not Francisco bad but not great either. And unless he changes something that number should decrease as he moves forward. At the major league level we're talking maybe 30-40 BB's a season at best, not at all good especially for a guy who hopes to be a leadoff type.

30-40 walks is not terrible for a guy who makes a lot of contact though. Sure, I want a guy who walks 80 times and can lead off.... but those guys are very rare, because most guys who walk that much hit in the middle of lineups. Sappelt's value is going to be tied mostly to his defense. The fact that there is a chance he can bring some offensive value to the table as well is just icing on the cake. Basically, he is like a Paul Janish (if his arm is better than it was last year while he was hurt) but with a bat that might play. There is pretty good value there.

flash
07-24-2010, 12:24 AM
Give me a break. I agree that K-BB may be valid, but the Reds' outfielders haven't been exactly stellar in that catagory this year

Stubbs 99 K's, 31 BB over 3-1
Gomes 76 K's 20 BB nearly 4-1
Bruce 90 K's 37 BB's over 2-1
Heisey 20 K's 10 BB's 2-1
Dickerson 19 K's 1 BB's 19-1

Totals 305 K's 80 BB's

Even with out Dickerson the ratio is 3-1

Cincy10
07-28-2010, 07:03 PM
What do you think were planning to do with Mesoraco and Grandal? I think Grandal is just a trading and Mesoraco will be the future C. It would be nice to have 2 great catchers in the future but it would be way to expensive

AWA85
07-28-2010, 11:13 PM
With Brown being called up by the Phillies, do you think he loses some votes as Minor League Player of the Year? His numbers will stay the same while others continue to pile on.