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markymark69
07-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Sun Deck's worst nightmare's? I may have to boycott all the upcoming bashing.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/22/reds-baker-to-talk-contract-in-august/

Orodle
07-22-2010, 02:17 PM
Sun Deck's worst nightmare's? I may have to boycott all the upcoming bashing.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/22/reds-baker-to-talk-contract-in-august/

My worst nightmare is for the Reds to miss the playoffs but do well enough that they bring back Dusty.

KOBasinger
07-22-2010, 02:29 PM
I'd be happy with it:D

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-22-2010, 02:37 PM
The thing is people that don't want Dusty back don't realize the consequences of letting him go. Who are we going to get? Dusty has improved the ball club each and every season regardless of what anyone says. You really think top notch managers are going to line up to coach the ball club when they know a guy who improved a ball club 3 years straight got the axe???

No one in their right mind is going to want to walk into that LOSE LOSE situation. I've dealt with it before being a NC State Wolfpack fan. The fan base ran Herb Sendek out of town after 5 straight NCAA appearances and the best we could hire was an unproven, 0 experience former player in Sidney Lowe. The program has been in recovery mode since. Not 1 coach wanted to come here because it was looked at as a LOSE LOSE job. Results and improvement year after year were never going to be good enough.

I hope they do resign Dusty even if we just miss out on the playoffs. This team still has a ton of youth and Dusty has done a good job with the club. Not great but good enough as expected with this unit. If we don't resign him we are going to be in a lot of trouble.

markymark69
07-22-2010, 02:44 PM
The thing is people that don't want Dusty back don't realize the consequences of letting him go. Who are we going to get? Dusty has improved the ball club each and every season regardless of what anyone says. You really think top notch managers are going to line up to coach the ball club when they know a guy who improved a ball club 3 years straight got the axe???

No one in their right mind is going to want to walk into that LOSE LOSE situation. I've dealt with it before being a NC State Wolfpack fan. The fan base ran Herb Sendek out of town after 5 straight NCAA appearances and the best we could hire was an unproven, 0 experience former player in Sidney Lowe. The program has been in recovery mode since. Not 1 coach wanted to come here because it was looked at as a LOSE LOSE job. Results and improvement year after year were never going to be good enough.

I hope they do resign Dusty even if we just miss out on the playoffs. This team still has a ton of youth and Dusty has done a good job with the club. Not great but good enough as expected with this unit. If we don't resign him we are going to be in a lot of trouble.

I've said alot of the same things that you have pointed out, well not the NC State stuff. Welcome aboard.

brm7675
07-22-2010, 02:45 PM
While I would rather see Joe Torre here next year, Dusty is going to be here for another 2-3 years and we are stuck with him...

bounty37h
07-22-2010, 03:09 PM
The thing is people that don't want Dusty back don't realize the consequences of letting him go. Who are we going to get? Dusty has improved the ball club each and every season regardless of what anyone says. You really think top notch managers are going to line up to coach the ball club when they know a guy who improved a ball club 3 years straight got the axe???

No one in their right mind is going to want to walk into that LOSE LOSE situation. I've dealt with it before being a NC State Wolfpack fan. The fan base ran Herb Sendek out of town after 5 straight NCAA appearances and the best we could hire was an unproven, 0 experience former player in Sidney Lowe. The program has been in recovery mode since. Not 1 coach wanted to come here because it was looked at as a LOSE LOSE job. Results and improvement year after year were never going to be good enough.

I hope they do resign Dusty even if we just miss out on the playoffs. This team still has a ton of youth and Dusty has done a good job with the club. Not great but good enough as expected with this unit. If we don't resign him we are going to be in a lot of trouble.

Good points Dale, I have seen it happen to you guys as a UNC fan ;) Lowe hasa some talent coming in though, think they are close to being the state of old!

knoonan991
07-22-2010, 03:10 PM
The thing is people that don't want Dusty back don't realize the consequences of letting him go. Who are we going to get? Dusty has improved the ball club each and every season regardless of what anyone says. You really think top notch managers are going to line up to coach the ball club when they know a guy who improved a ball club 3 years straight got the axe???

No one in their right mind is going to want to walk into that LOSE LOSE situation. I've dealt with it before being a NC State Wolfpack fan. The fan base ran Herb Sendek out of town after 5 straight NCAA appearances and the best we could hire was an unproven, 0 experience former player in Sidney Lowe. The program has been in recovery mode since. Not 1 coach wanted to come here because it was looked at as a LOSE LOSE job. Results and improvement year after year were never going to be good enough.

I hope they do resign Dusty even if we just miss out on the playoffs. This team still has a ton of youth and Dusty has done a good job with the club. Not great but good enough as expected with this unit. If we don't resign him we are going to be in a lot of trouble.

:thumbup:

Spot on, well said

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-22-2010, 03:14 PM
Good points Dale, I have seen it happen to you guys as a UNC fan ;) Lowe hasa some talent coming in though, think they are close to being the state of old!

Yea if Lowe can't get it done with the 3, 5 star guys he has coming in he'll never get the job done. You guys better watch out... I've seen all 3 play and they are lights out amazing. And yes I know the recruits you guys have coming in are good too. All of them have played a few games against each other during a summer league in NC, building up the hype and hopefully what will be the new era in the Tarheel, Wolfpack rivalry.

Ok done with hijack, carry on.

moewan
07-22-2010, 03:24 PM
The thing is people that don't want Dusty back don't realize the consequences of letting him go. Who are we going to get? Dusty has improved the ball club each and every season regardless of what anyone says. You really think top notch managers are going to line up to coach the ball club when they know a guy who improved a ball club 3 years straight got the axe???

No one in their right mind is going to want to walk into that LOSE LOSE situation. I've dealt with it before being a NC State Wolfpack fan. The fan base ran Herb Sendek out of town after 5 straight NCAA appearances and the best we could hire was an unproven, 0 experience former player in Sidney Lowe. The program has been in recovery mode since. Not 1 coach wanted to come here because it was looked at as a LOSE LOSE job. Results and improvement year after year were never going to be good enough.

I hope they do resign Dusty even if we just miss out on the playoffs. This team still has a ton of youth and Dusty has done a good job with the club. Not great but good enough as expected with this unit. If we don't resign him we are going to be in a lot of trouble.

while dusty does some things in game that makes me scratch my head, i agree that he has done a good job managing the clubhouse, and the pitching staff. so i would not be opposed to retaining dusty for another two years.

brm7675
07-22-2010, 03:26 PM
while dusty does some things in game that makes me scratch my head, i agree that he has done a good job managing the clubhouse, and the pitching staff. so i would not be opposed to retaining dusty for another two years.


A) please show how he has managed the clubhouse?
B) how has he managed the pitching staff?

davereds24
07-22-2010, 03:28 PM
While I would rather see Joe Torre here next year, Dusty is going to be here for another 2-3 years and we are stuck with him...

Torre coming to Cincinnati, that's a good one.

brm7675
07-22-2010, 03:40 PM
Torre coming to Cincinnati, that's a good one.

Why wouldn't he? We have a talented team, he has family in the area, what is wrong with Cincy?

Kiss the Baby00
07-22-2010, 04:05 PM
Why wouldn't he? We have a talented team, he has family in the area, what is wrong with Cincy?

how about this.

if joe torre is the manager next year ill stop posting here forever.

if baker is the manager you have to stop posting forever.

davereds24
07-22-2010, 04:17 PM
Why wouldn't he? We have a talented team, he has family in the area, what is wrong with Cincy?

There are probably 100 reasons why, but I'll just list a couple:

The Reds have already said Dusty is probably making too much in his current contract for it to be extended at a similar yearly salary. Torre makes double that.

Torre has managed in LA and NY, that's what's wrong with Cincy.

The Reds sign Izzy and Springer for playoff pushes, he's not going to a small market club at this point in his career. He'll go somwhere that he feels can win every single year and where the owner will buy the talent to do so.

He's 70 yrs old, that's not what the Reds are looking for.

brm7675
07-22-2010, 04:35 PM
There are probably 100 reasons why, but I'll just list a couple:

The Reds have already said Dusty is probably making too much in his current contract for it to be extended at a similar yearly salary. Torre makes double that.

Torre has managed in LA and NY, that's what's wrong with Cincy.

The Reds sign Izzy and Springer for playoff pushes, he's not going to a small market club at this point in his career. He'll go somwhere that he feels can win every single year and where the owner will buy the talent to do so.

He's 70 yrs old, that's not what the Reds are looking for.

lets review your list...

Torre is worth paying the extra money for and if our own is going to shell out 30 million for an unproven 20 something of a pitcher, something tells me he will shell out for a HOF manager if the opportunity presents himself.

He also managed in Atlanta and St. Louis, so how is Cincy horrible?

Right now the Reds have the talent to win for the next few years, so what the problem? He isn't going to manage another 10-15 years, offer him a 3 year deal at around $21 million total.

So he's told old is what you are saying? How is that age effecting his managing skills?

Hondo
07-22-2010, 08:10 PM
I've said alot of the same things that you have pointed out, well not the NC State stuff. Welcome aboard.

I dont think Dusty has improved the Reds every season.

I think Walt Jocketty has...

He has gotten rid of the Corey Pattersons of the World, and brought in Rolen, Cabrera, etc...

Walt had influence of getting rid of the worst pitching coach in the Majors Dick Pole...

Dusty is Dusty... A Players Manager who bats SS and CF 2nd in lineups because its the "thing to do"...

Walt is the man who improved he Club.

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-22-2010, 08:14 PM
I dont think Dusty has improved the Reds every season.

I think Walt Jocketty has...

He has gotten rid of the Corey Pattersons of the World, and brought in Rolen, Cabrera, etc...

Walt had influence of getting rid of the worst pitching coach in the Majors Dick Pole...

Dusty is Dusty... A Players Manager who bats SS and CF 2nd in lineups because its the "thing to do"...

Walt is the man who improved he Club.

So much for winning and losing as a TEAM or ORGANIZATION. :rolleyes:

Hondo
07-22-2010, 08:24 PM
So much for winning and losing as a TEAM or ORGANIZATION. :rolleyes:

Dude wasnt winning games before Jocketty had a solid year and offseason to tinker...

But you can go that route that you just did if it makes you feel better...

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-22-2010, 08:31 PM
Dude wasnt winning games before Jocketty had a solid year and offseason to tinker...

But you can go that route that you just did if it makes you feel better...

If we were losing you would blame Dusty though, that is the funny thing to me.

Hondo
07-22-2010, 08:38 PM
If we were losing you would blame Dusty though, that is the funny thing to me.

No, its not Dustys fault he is a "Roto Manager" in like a Neighborhood Fantasy League...

Dusty goes with Dick Pole, Brook Jacoby, Corey Patterson to the neglect of the team...

Dustys is a mans man, but he is never going to be that out think the other Manager Skipper like a Leyland, Scioscia, or a Bobby Cox...

He is like in a Softball Beer League where Toothpicks are neccesary.

kfm
07-22-2010, 08:41 PM
Dude wasnt winning games before Jocketty had a solid year and offseason to tinker...

But you can go that route that you just did if it makes you feel better...

What about O'brien and Krivsky. Do they get any of the credit? Of the three general managers responsible for where the reds are right now you could argue that Walt is the least responsible. The team has gotten better every year since Dusty got here. That is a fact. If your point is that they did not begin to win until their talent got better, that is also a fact. That is also how sports works, get better talent and your team gets better that is how Tampa got better, the Yankees, Dodgers, heck just name the team and they got better with improved talent either by adding new players or the growth and development of their young players. I guess Dusty is the only manager who needs good players to win.

Hondo
07-22-2010, 08:54 PM
What about O'brien and Krivsky. Do they get any of the credit? Of the three general managers responsible for where the reds are right now you could argue that Walt is the least responsible. The team has gotten better every year since Dusty got here. That is a fact. If your point is that they did not begin to win until their talent got better, that is also a fact. That is also how sports works, get better talent and your team gets better that is how Tampa got better, the Yankees, Dodgers, heck just name the team and they got better with improved talent either by adding new players or the growth and development of their young players. I guess Dusty is the only manager who needs good players to win.

Just so ya know... Rolen and Cabrera make this team a different Team all together...

Gomes Hitting early in the season and Leake's awesome Career start also were big reasons why this team has been able to stay in contention...

Joe Votto is having a Great offensive season, and I think its because there is guys like Roen hitting behind him.

Izzy
07-22-2010, 09:00 PM
Dusty Baker has the Reds in their best playoff position in years. The guy has won as a manager everywhere he’s been, including in Cincinnati as of this year. I hope he stays around for the next few seasons. I could watch this year’s brand of ball for a long time.

Griffey012
07-22-2010, 09:07 PM
I dont think Dusty has improved the Reds every season.

I think Walt Jocketty has...

He has gotten rid of the Corey Pattersons of the World, and brought in Rolen, Cabrera, etc...

Walt had influence of getting rid of the worst pitching coach in the Majors Dick Pole...

Dusty is Dusty... A Players Manager who bats SS and CF 2nd in lineups because its the "thing to do"...

Walt is the man who improved he Club.

Jocketty has made this team better no doubt. However, who gets the credit for young guys coming up and producing right away at the ML Level. Heisey, Stubbs, Wood, Smith, Maloney, Hanigan, and Leake. Sure they are all talented guys, but it literally seems like whoever we call up performs to their potential and Dusty is a big reason for that. Being a player's manager he makes the guys feel confident and comfortable and puts them in a position to succeed.

Jocketty has had his hand in obtaining the pieces, while Baker has put together the puzzle.

Vottomatic
07-23-2010, 10:03 AM
I like Dusty. I hate Dusty's managing.

I think this team would have won more games with a better manager.

I think this team wins DESPITE Dusty.

I honestly think we'd be 3 or 4 games up on the Cards right now with a better manager.

brm7675
07-23-2010, 11:28 AM
Just so ya know... Rolen and Cabrera make this team a different Team all together...

.

Rolen does, but Cabrera? You can't be serious?

brm7675
07-23-2010, 11:29 AM
Dusty Baker has the Reds in their best playoff position in years. The guy has won as a manager everywhere he’s been, including in Cincinnati as of this year. I hope he stays around for the next few seasons. I could watch this year’s brand of ball for a long time.

So you are okay with the wrong players playing and the wrong batting order and the misuse and poor use of the pitching staff?:thumbdown

Fon Duc Tow
07-23-2010, 12:33 PM
I think Dusty would make a good bench coach.

kfm
07-23-2010, 04:29 PM
Just so ya know... Rolen and Cabrera make this team a different Team all together...

Gomes Hitting early in the season and Leake's awesome Career start also were big reasons why this team has been able to stay in contention...

Joe Votto is having a Great offensive season, and I think its because there is guys like Roen hitting behind him.

No one is disputing the impact of these three players you just named. However, you just named 3 players on a roster of 25. What does walt have to do with Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez, or Wood. Nothing at all. What about Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Hanigan, Heisey, Rhodes, Cordero? A lot of people deserve credit for where this team is and where this organization is. BTW, Gomes is here because of Dusty. It was a friend of Dusty's who contacted him and said you need to take a look at Gomes when Gomes was a free agent last year. I don't know why you refuse to accept that many people have played a role in this teams success.

brm7675
07-23-2010, 04:49 PM
Jocketty has had his hand in obtaining the pieces, while Baker has put together the puzzle.

Your joking right?:confused:

Griffey012
07-23-2010, 05:14 PM
Your joking right?:confused:

Not at all, Dusty is the one pushing the buttons daily and helping make this thing work. He has made the lineup changes that have created a spark and got guys going, we have been leading the NL in offense for most the season with a lineup that has a guy who came to camp on a minor league deal (Gomes), a rookie, a 23 year old, a solid catching platoon, and a guy who was borderline washed up (Rolen).

At the beginning of the year this lineup was supposed to put together no runs.

brm7675
07-23-2010, 05:26 PM
Not at all, Dusty is the one pushing the buttons daily and helping make this thing work. He has made the lineup changes that have created a spark and got guys going, we have been leading the NL in offense for most the season with a lineup that has a guy who came to camp on a minor league deal (Gomes), a rookie, a 23 year old, a solid catching platoon, and a guy who was borderline washed up (Rolen).

At the beginning of the year this lineup was supposed to put together no runs.

Making things work? We went how long with no production from the leadoff spot while Dusty sat on his hands and kept Stubbs there? He continues to bat Orlando second when the numbers clearly show he is a 7/8/9 hitter at best? This team has scored in spite of Dusty, not because.