PDA

View Full Version : Votto's day off



Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 03:00 PM
I don't start a lot of threads. But I was thinking about something as everyone (including myself) ushers in Joey Votto's MVP talks.

Today is a microcosm of why it's taken me so long to warm up to Joey Votto. I know it was Dusty's decision to give Votto the 'much needed' day off today while Rolen is out and after he just had 4 days off about a week ago. I get that.

But if you're Votto; and you're a real MVP.... don't you have to be pretty much dying before you willingfully accept being pulled from the lineup from your manager? Where is the fire in this guy? Save the talk about not liking the Cubs, and just get out there and play if you're healthy, would you?

Yes, he's played in 90 games this year..... but no reason to take today off against a RHP when his splits at home against a RHP are unreal. This is making my blood boil. And IMO, this 'lax' attitude towards games now and against the Nats is why St. Louis has an edge. If Pujols (who will be the MVP IMO) can physically limp into the lineup he is out there.

Ok. I'm finished. Flame away and tell me how I'm a bad person, etc. This was just my thoughts today and I wanted to know if anyone else felt similarly.

yab1112
07-22-2010, 03:12 PM
You're making the assumption that Votto could've forced Dusty to put him in had he "really wanted to play."

Another possibility is that Dusty saw Votto was scuffling a little and forced him to sit for a day.

Big Klu
07-22-2010, 03:12 PM
Votto didn't have four days off a week ago. He had a cross-country flight from Philly to LAX, an extremely busy itinerary in Anaheim, then another cross-country flight from LAX to Cincinnati.

Falls City Beer
07-22-2010, 03:14 PM
Turns out it was an optimal day to give him a day off. Volquez chucked the Reds' chances early and often. Votto wouldn't have made a difference.

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Alright. I apologize for feeling this way.

I miss tough old school ballplayers. That's probably why I like Jay Bruce and Adam Dunn. They've got their faults, but they limp out there somehow every day. I love that in a player.

bucksfan2
07-22-2010, 03:17 PM
Alright. I apologize for feeling this way.

I miss tough old school ballplayers. That's probably why I like Jay Bruce and Adam Dunn. They've got their faults, but they limp out there somehow every day. I love that in a player.

Just a couple of days ago ol' Albert was out of the lineup. Sometimes a player needs a day of rest to stay relatively fresh during the season.

And you like those tough old school ballplayers when they refuse to come out of the lineup when they are hurting the team?

nate
07-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Desire and intensity aren't measured in decibels and gesticulation.

I'm sure Joey's a tough guy. I heard he once used a "Mr. Coffee" because his gamer French Press didn't make it on the team plane.

:cool:

Patrick Bateman
07-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Alright. I apologize for feeling this way.

I miss tough old school ballplayers. That's probably why I like Jay Bruce and Adam Dunn. They've got their faults, but they limp out there somehow every day. I love that in a player.

It's not the opinion that people don't like in these types of threads.

It's the conclusion jumping made off of non-facts.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2010, 03:27 PM
A guy has no shot at being liked if he is going to get ripped for OPS'ing 1.000 and sitting on the bench when his manager didn't put his name on the lineup card.

LoganBuck
07-22-2010, 03:30 PM
Just a couple of days ago ol' Albert was out of the lineup. Sometimes a player needs a day of rest to stay relatively fresh during the season.

And you like those tough old school ballplayers when they refuse to come out of the lineup when they are hurting the team?

Pujols fouled a ball off his foot the day before. His foot was sore.

westofyou
07-22-2010, 03:33 PM
Never idealize others. They will never live up to your expectations.

Leo Buscaglia

Cedric
07-22-2010, 03:35 PM
You play when told and you sit when told. I have no idea how Votto can be questioned on this one.

Danny Serafini
07-22-2010, 03:39 PM
But if you're Votto; and you're a real MVP.... don't you have to be pretty much dying before you willingfully accept being pulled from the lineup from your manager?

What exactly was he supposed to do, steal the lineup card, write his name on it, then run onto the field and make security drag him off? If Dusty says you're sitting, you're sitting, that's all there is to it.

CTA513
07-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Every player needs days off including Pujols.

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 03:54 PM
What exactly was he supposed to do, steal the lineup card, write his name on it, then run onto the field and make security drag him off? If Dusty says you're sitting, you're sitting, that's all there is to it.

We're not talking about Corky Miller or Drew Stubbs here. We're talking one of maybe 2 or 3 perennial MVP candidates in the National League.

I think he's earned the right to look his manager in the eye and say "I'm not coming out with my team already being down Scott Rolen". I don't think that it would be all that hard of a sell.

westofyou
07-22-2010, 03:56 PM
We're not talking about Corky Miller or Drew Stubbs here. We're talking one of maybe 2 or 3 perennial MVP candidates in the National League.

I think he's earned the right to look his manager in the eye and say "I'm not coming out with my team already being down Scott Rolen". I don't think that it would be all that hard of a sell.

Perennial?

The guy has 1500 PA's in his career, lower the bar a bit

nate
07-22-2010, 03:57 PM
think he's earned the right to look his manager in the eye and say "I'm not coming out with my team already being down Scott Rolen". I don't think that it would be all that hard of a sell.

How do you know he didn't?

bucksfan2
07-22-2010, 04:02 PM
How do you know he didn't?

Yea I got a feeling that Dusty was adamant about Joey not playing today.

Big Klu
07-22-2010, 04:08 PM
http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/teacher1.jpg

Votto?...Votto?...Votto?





http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/cast/swanson.jpg

Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Joey pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.






http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/teacher1.jpg

Thank you, Simone. Rolen?...Rolen?

Blitz Dorsey
07-22-2010, 04:35 PM
Dusty had his head so far up his rear end when he decided to give Votto a "day off" that it's amazing. You don't do something like that when the race might be decided by a game or two. Course, it ended up not mattering since it was a blowout, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it was a boneheaded move by Dusty. He always tries to get cute with his getaway day lineups and it always bothers me. Like "who cares if we don't start our best lineup today, there's plenty of other games where we can do that." No, Dusty, that's how you finish a game or two out of the playoffs. Or having to play a one-game "playoff" just to get in the playoffs. This race is going to be close both in the NL Central and for the wildcard and we can't afford to give our best player a day off for no reason.

jojo
07-22-2010, 04:39 PM
I think we as fans can get fixated upon the wrong numbers sometimes and I think the 1.5 going into this game was obfuscating the bigger picture...

redsmetz
07-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Dusty had his head so far up his rear end when he decided to give Votto a "day off" that it's amazing. You don't do something like that when the race might be decided by a game or two. Course, it ended up not mattering since it was a blowout, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it was a boneheaded move by Dusty. He always tries to get cute with his getaway day lineups and it always bothers me. Like "who cares if we don't start our best lineup today, there's plenty of other games where we can do that." No, Dusty, that's how you finish a game or two out of the playoffs. Or having to play a one-game "playoff" just to get in the playoffs. This race is going to be close both in the NL Central and for the wildcard and we can't afford to give our best player a day off for no reason.

Some times this board astounds me. Baker said a few days ago that he needed to work in rest for both Phillips and Votto. Managers do that routinely throughout the long seasons, whether the club is a losing one or a winning one. Folks bash Dusty over this decision even while throwing out the caveat "even though it didn't matter."

Few ballplayers are the legendary iron man. They all need rests in this grinding season. Today was Votto's. And some have worked themselves into a dither over it. Sheesh.

westofyou
07-22-2010, 04:42 PM
Some times this board astounds me. Baker said a few days ago that he needed to work in rest for both Phillips and Votto. Managers do that routinely throughout the long seasons, whether the club is a losing one or a winning one. Folks bash Dusty over this decision even while throwing out the caveat "even though it didn't matter."

Few ballplayers are the legendary iron man. They all need rests in this grinding season. Today was Votto's. And some have worked themselves into a dither over it. Sheesh.

Sometimes?

Roy Tucker
07-22-2010, 04:45 PM
I think we need to print off some t-shirts with "Sac Up Joey" and "Sac Up Scott" on the front. They'd be big sellers in here.

nate
07-22-2010, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure if a couple of posters constitute "this board."

redsfan30
07-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Absoluetly unbelievable.

Big Klu
07-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Desire and intensity aren't measured in decibels and gesticulation.

I'm sure Joey's a tough guy. I heard he once used a "Mr. Coffee" because his gamer French Press didn't make it on the team plane.

:cool:

It was good enough for this guy--it's good enough for Votto. ;)

http://dailyirabu.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/joed-coffee.jpg

IslandRed
07-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Most people will grudgingly admit that players not named Ripken benefit from a day off here or there, but when there's a pennant race at hand, there's always a reason why today isn't the right day. Shrug.

redsmetz
07-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Sometimes?

Well, it always astounds me, of course, just in different ways.

All this talk about Joey's coffee maker got me all messed up. I set up my coffee pot for the morning, flipped the switch and went back to my desk. Half a minute later, I realized, oops! So I'm enjoying a nice cup of coffee before I walk home from work.

I'm just shaken up over the whole affair.

Raisor
07-22-2010, 05:16 PM
He needed the day off to go designer shirt shopping.


I hear he's into that.

yab1112
07-22-2010, 05:22 PM
http://www.priority-1.org/html/aberger/joe-coffee.jpg

Redlegs
07-22-2010, 05:25 PM
Joey Votto's as intense a competitor as they come. It's a marathon so give him a rest here and there. Dusty knows more baseball than we ever will.

CTA513
07-22-2010, 05:29 PM
He needed the day off to go designer shirt shopping.


I hear he's into that.

He probably met up with OchoCinco later and got pedicures.

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 05:30 PM
I'm not sure if a couple of posters constitute "this board."

Right. Real nice.

redsmetz
07-22-2010, 05:34 PM
I'm not sure if a couple of posters constitute "this board."

Fair point too. My exasperation had me painting with too broad a brush.

Hey, but we caught a break finally with Philly winning in extra innings to keep us just a game and a half behind.

Joey better be ready to play in Houston...

nate
07-22-2010, 05:38 PM
Right. Real nice.

Word.

nate
07-22-2010, 05:42 PM
Fair point too. My exasperation had me painting with too broad a brush.

Hey, but we caught a break finally with Philly winning in extra innings to keep us just a game and a half behind.

Joey better be ready to play in Houston...

High five!

traderumor
07-22-2010, 05:47 PM
So far, we are missing the obvious. Joey needed the day off because of his "issues" and "rest" is just a code word used by Dusty to keep from violating HIPPA rules. If he's not in the lineup tomorrow...

jojo
07-22-2010, 06:00 PM
He needed the day off to go designer shirt shopping.


I hear he's into that.

He is Canadian.

cincrazy
07-22-2010, 06:16 PM
Do we really need to dog pile on the guy for giving an opinion?

I understand the logic of giving him the day off. He's a grind, he needs rest, long season, yada yada yada. Get it. And I agree with it.

However, with Rolen out, the Cards on fire, a hittable pitcher in Hernandez on the mound to wrap up a home series.... I want him out there. Every. Single. Time. And I don't think that makes me an ignorant fan who isn't concerned about the long term view.

We're already down one star player. Taking another one out of the lineup damn near guarantees a loss. And I'm just not ok with that. Votto sure didn't look too tired the other night when he sent one 385 feet to left center field.

I'm not blaming Votto for not playing. I highly doubt he went to Dusty and said "I want this day off." But if I'm Dusty, I play him.

jojo
07-22-2010, 06:19 PM
So far, we are missing the obvious. Joey needed the day off because of his "issues" and "rest" is just a code word used by Dusty to keep from violating HIPPA rules. If he's not in the lineup tomorrow...

I can't tell if you're kidding or not.

Big Klu
07-22-2010, 06:38 PM
He needed the day off to go designer shirt shopping.


I hear he's into that.



He is Canadian.

Canadian haute couture?

http://www.tv-eh.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/bobdoug17.jpg

Chip R
07-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Do we really need to dog pile on the guy for giving an opinion?

I'm not sure it's piling on. He brings up the subject time and again so I can see that he's opened himself up to ridicule. I would think if he doesn't want people to make fun of his posts, he should stop posting his nonsense.


I understand the logic of giving him the day off. He's a grind, he needs rest, long season, yada yada yada. Get it. And I agree with it.

However, with Rolen out, the Cards on fire, a hittable pitcher in Hernandez on the mound to wrap up a home series.... I want him out there. Every. Single. Time. And I don't think that makes me an ignorant fan who isn't concerned about the long term view.

We're already down one star player. Taking another one out of the lineup damn near guarantees a loss. And I'm just not ok with that. Votto sure didn't look too tired the other night when he sent one 385 feet to left center field.

I'm not blaming Votto for not playing. I highly doubt he went to Dusty and said "I want this day off." But if I'm Dusty, I play him.


It's one game. What if this day off recharges Votto and he goes on a tear? We don't know if we would have won with him in the lineup anyway. We didn't win last night. I'm guessing that Dusty had this planned days in advance.

cincrazy
07-22-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm not sure it's piling on. He brings up the subject time and again so I can see that he's opened himself up to ridicule. I would think if he doesn't want people to make fun of his posts, he should stop posting his nonsense.




It's one game. What if this day off recharges Votto and he goes on a tear? We don't know if we would have won with him in the lineup anyway. We didn't win last night. I'm guessing that Dusty had this planned days in advance.

My friend, it works both ways. Is giving him this one day off really going to make a difference? He's in the prime of his career, seemingly in great health, and he hasn't exactly been awful lately. IMO, we could have used his talents in the lineup a heck of a lot more than he needed the day off.

And I really think that making fun of a post is silly, and a waste of time. Redszone was specifically created, as far as I can recall, to get away from that kind of stuff. Disagreeing with it, even vehemently, is fine. But a lack of respect for someone, IMO, is not.

westofyou
07-22-2010, 07:34 PM
My friend, it works both ways. Is giving him this one day off really going to make a difference? He's in the prime of his career, seemingly in great health, and he hasn't exactly been awful lately. IMO, we could have used his talents in the lineup a heck of a lot more than he needed the day off.

And I really think that making fun of a post is silly, and a waste of time. Redszone was specifically created, as far as I can recall, to get away from that kind of stuff. Disagreeing with it, even vehemently, is fine. But a lack of respect for someone, IMO, is not.

Is one day going to make a difference?

That is really only known by the guy getting the day off

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm not sure it's piling on. He brings up the subject time and again so I can see that he's opened himself up to ridicule. I would think if he doesn't want people to make fun of his posts, he should stop posting his nonsense.

I haven't brought up this subject before. I believe in the past I wondered about what was going on with the stiff neck heard 'round the world--like a lot of others.

What is popular is not always right. I think Votto should have played today. You do not along with a handful of others. No harm no foul.

I'm not blaming Joey, I'm blaming the manager.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2010, 07:45 PM
But if you're Votto; and you're a real MVP.... don't you have to be pretty much dying before you willingfully accept being pulled from the lineup from your manager? Where is the fire in this guy? Save the talk about not liking the Cubs, and just get out there and play if you're healthy, would you?

Yes, he's played in 90 games this year..... but no reason to take today off against a RHP when his splits at home against a RHP are unreal. This is making my blood boil. And IMO, this 'lax' attitude towards games now and against the Nats is why St. Louis has an edge. If Pujols (who will be the MVP IMO) can physically limp into the lineup he is out there.


I'm not blaming Joey, I'm blaming the manager.

Really?

nate
07-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Really?

What's that rule about holes again?

:cool:

pedro
07-22-2010, 08:02 PM
I'm blaming every player who ever took a day off and every manager who ever gave them that day off. Furthermore, I'm blaming America and its' weak kneed little sister to the north, Canada, who have both fostered, and yes, accepted, this attitude that not working every single day in the blistering heat is acceptable. Mexico, our tough little cousin to the south, would never allow this to happen. Additionally, I'd like to blame the cast of the movie Animal House and more specifically, Tim Matheson, because without their guidance I might actually stand for something.

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 08:05 PM
Word.

Hey now, quit being so holier then thou. I'm pretty sure a bit less snarkiness would make "this forum" better too.

kaldaniels
07-22-2010, 08:08 PM
On a totally unrelated note, are we allowed to vote ORGers BACK to the SunDeck? I don't know why that thought just popped into my mind.

Nothing to do with this thread. :cool:

paintmered
07-22-2010, 08:10 PM
I'm blaming every player who ever took a day off and every manager who ever gave them that day off. Furthermore, I'm blaming America and its' weak kneed little sister to the north, Canada, who have both fostered, and yes, accepted, this attitude that not working every single day in the blistering heat is acceptable. Mexico, our tough little cousin to the south, would never allow this to happen. Additionally, I'd like to blame the cast of the movie Animal House and more specifically, Tim Matheson, because without their guidance I might actually stand for something.

:laugh:

10 SERP points to you, good sir.

Ghosts of 1990
07-22-2010, 08:12 PM
What's that rule about holes again?

:cool:

No one told me when I got in tORG that you were Tommy Truefan and you decide who is worthy and who isn't. What's ironic is I'm talking baseball and you're dropping one liners and wise cracks. If you have time to do that why don't you get out to a few games. The team could use a fan like you.

nate
07-22-2010, 08:12 PM
Hey now, quit being so holier then thou. I'm pretty sure a bit less snarkiness would make "this forum" better too.

Huh?

paintmered
07-22-2010, 08:14 PM
Knock it off. Both of you.

kaldaniels
07-22-2010, 08:14 PM
Huh?

I just picture him making Dr. Evil hand quotes around "this forum".

OK no more one liners from me.

RFS62
07-22-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm blaming every player who ever took a day off and every manager who ever gave them that day off. Furthermore, I'm blaming America and its' weak kneed little sister to the north, Canada, who have both fostered, and yes, accepted, this attitude that not working every single day in the blistering heat is acceptable. Mexico, our tough little cousin to the south, would never allow this to happen. Additionally, I'd like to blame the cast of the movie Animal House and more specifically, Tim Matheson, because without their guidance I might actually stand for something.


I haven't been this outraged since the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Preach it, brother.

:cool:

Roy Tucker
07-22-2010, 08:32 PM
Rumor has it Joey went to the Cubs game in Cameron's dads Ferrari.

http://a3.vox.com/6a01101678c600860c01101687d983860c-500pi

pedro
07-22-2010, 08:37 PM
Rumor has it Joey went to the Cubs game in Cameron's dads Ferrari.

http://a3.vox.com/6a01101678c600860c01101687d983860c-500pi

Poor Cameron may never get over it either.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGuF0tR5apLOBxLuJeSuGWH_7ug86gT zAQMgQs50urlmYUqx8&t=1&usg=__GMhhjWCvfTdx7OJjzNUXYjFTqsU=

westofyou
07-22-2010, 08:47 PM
Fact: Joey Votto is big guy, who is on pace to play in 156 games and have over 600 trips to the plate, pretty impressive if you ask me.

For his size it would be the 7th best games played in team history.


CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
HEIGHT >= 75
PLATE APPEARANCES >= 575
HEIGHT displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WEIGHT displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

GAMES YEAR G PA HT WT AGE RC/G
1 Dave Parker 1986 162 700 6'5" 230 35 0.57
2 Adam Dunn 2004 161 681 6'6" 240 24 2.92
T3 Adam Dunn 2006 160 683 6'6" 240 26 1.14
T3 Adam Dunn 2005 160 671 6'6" 240 25 2.66
T3 Dave Parker 1985 160 694 6'5" 230 34 1.85
T6 Lee May 1969 158 665 6'3" 195 26 1.57
T6 Adam Dunn 2002 158 676 6'6" 240 22 1.68
T8 Frank McCormick 1939 156 688 6'4" 205 28 1.49
T8 Dave Parker 1984 156 655 6'5" 230 33 0.27
10 Frank McCormick 1940 155 676 6'4" 205 29 1.46
11 Frank McCormick 1941 154 653 6'4" 205 30 -.23
T12 Lee May 1970 153 649 6'3" 195 27 -.36
T12 Dave Parker 1987 153 647 6'5" 230 36 -.58
T12 Frank McCormick 1944 153 645 6'4" 205 33 1.86
T15 Frank McCormick 1945 152 644 6'4" 205 34 -.22
T15 Adam Dunn 2007 152 632 6'6" 240 27 2.43
T15 Paul O'Neill 1991 152 607 6'4" 200 28 1.38
T18 Frank McCormick 1938 151 671 6'4" 205 27 0.64
T18 Sean Casey 1999 151 669 6'4" 215 24 2.48
T18 Joey Votto 2008 151 589 6'3" 220 24 1.78
21 Gordy Coleman 1961 150 578 6'3" 208 26 1.03
T22 Babe Herman 1932 148 642 6'4" 190 29 2.95
T22 Paul O'Neill 1992 148 584 6'4" 200 29 0.19
T24 George Kelly 1929 147 632 6'4" 190 33 -1.14
T24 Lee May 1971 147 602 6'3" 195 28 1.84
T24 Sean Casey 2003 147 629 6'4" 215 28 -.17

kaldaniels
07-22-2010, 09:30 PM
In reference to the above chart...one thing has always stuck out in my mind about Adam Dunn. No matter how strong your feelings are one way or another about him, the guy played every day. That in itself is very admirable.

Not knocking Votto or anything whatsoever, but few and far between are the guys who don't need that day off every now and then.

Tornon
07-22-2010, 09:51 PM
For what it's worth, when Votto faced Livan Hernandez in Washington earlier this year, that was the worst I think I've seen a pitcher make Votto look all year

Captain Hook
07-22-2010, 10:05 PM
In reference to the above chart...one thing has always stuck out in my mind about Adam Dunn. No matter how strong your feelings are one way or another about him, the guy played every day. That in itself is very admirable.

Not knocking Votto or anything whatsoever, but few and far between are the guys who don't need that day off every now and then.

Who's to say Dunn didn't need a day off from time to time.I'm not saying that this was the case but if Dunn simply wouldn't accept sitting out a game(like it's being suggested Votto should do) and allowed himself to get run down or maybe even hurt due to fatigue or just not playing up to his potential because he isn't rested, who then would be the selfish player.Sometime, I have to believe these guys are their own worst enemy's and decisions like this should be left to the managers.

Blitz Dorsey
07-22-2010, 11:45 PM
If Dusty was the manager of a fantasy team that had Gehrig and Ripken ... and they had a game on a Thursday or Sunday ... there is a good chance he would give one of them the day off just for the yellagit.

Ron Madden
07-23-2010, 03:06 AM
On a totally unrelated note, are we allowed to vote ORGers BACK to the SunDeck? I don't know why that thought just popped into my mind.

Nothing to do with this thread. :cool:



You better hope not. ;) (jk)

redsmetz
07-23-2010, 05:15 AM
Basically I think some perspective is always in order. Folks have laid out some decent rationale for having the day off yesterday. As I noted, both Phillips and Votto were slated for days off in this series. It was also mentioned that both, having been All Stars, essentially didn't get the rest others had. IMO, it makes sense to get those players the rest during a series against a weaker team, hence now.

While the ideal of the "iron man" such as Rose, Ripken or Gehrig is admirable, the fact is most players can use a breather from time to time. The season, as is often mentioned, is a terrific grind. Baker has regularly noted that players such as Votto and Phillips resist coming out, but ultimately the longer view is necessary.

It should be noted too, that Votto has been quite good against Astros pitching. When I went to look at his record against Livan Hernandez (after someone said here he looked awful against him earlier this season - he's 1-5 lifetime), I viewed his record against pitchers and then limited it to those he's faced 20 times or more (just 8 pitchers, understandably all in our division). He's hit very well off of both Roy Oswalt and Wandy Rodriguez. I know Baker looks at this things, we've heard him toss tidbits out here and there. So in many ways, it makes a lot of sense to have Votto rested in this particular game and rested for the Astros series.

Ron Madden
07-23-2010, 05:40 AM
Basically I think some perspective is always in order. Folks have laid out some decent rationale for having the day off yesterday. As I noted, both Phillips and Votto were slated for days off in this series. It was also mentioned that both, having been All Stars, essentially didn't get the rest others had. IMO, it makes sense to get those players the rest during a series against a weaker team, hence now.

While the ideal of the "iron man" such as Rose, Ripken or Gehrig is admirable, the fact is most players can use a breather from time to time. The season, as is often mentioned, is a terrific grind. Baker has regularly noted that players such as Votto and Phillips resist coming out, but ultimately the longer view is necessary.

It should be noted too, that Votto has been quite good against Astros pitching. When I went to look at his record against Livan Hernandez (after someone said here he looked awful against him earlier this season - he's 1-5 lifetime), I viewed his record against pitchers and then limited it to those he's faced 20 times or more (just 8 pitchers, understandably all in our division). He's hit very well off of both Roy Oswalt and Wandy Rodriguez. I know Baker looks at this things, we've heard him toss tidbits out here and there. So in many ways, it makes a lot of sense to have Votto rested in this particular game and rested for the Astros series.


Didn't Dusty give Votto, Phillips, Rolen and Rhodes the day off the Thursday after the ASG while the rest of the team had to workout at GABP?

mth123
07-23-2010, 06:36 AM
Didn't Dusty give Votto, Phillips, Rolen and Rhodes the day off the Thursday after the ASG while the rest of the team had to workout at GABP?

Yes. While they did do some traveling and played a few innings in the all star game, the idea that these guys didn't get any rest over the 4 day break is a joke IMO.

I agree with the idea that these guys need some rest, but there is no reason that it has to be so set in stone that Phillips and Votto are both rested in a series when Rolen is already out. The career years that have carried this team are coming from 1B, 2B and 3B. Having two of those guys out at the same time seems foolish IMO. It would be different if Rolen was going to be out indefinitely, but the team expects him back soon enough that they haven't even put him on the DL. Unless there was a nagging injury that needed a day-off that I'm unaware of, the rest could have been put off a little longer IMO.

I also think that some of the posts in this thread blasting the original poster are among the most childish and nasty I've seen on Redszone. Some one mentioned sending some people back to the Sundeck but its not the OP that should be on the list for exclusion from the ORG.

pedro
07-23-2010, 10:07 AM
I think if someone wants to start making character flaw accusations of players on a message board based on that player getting a day off they probably shouldn't expect a very high toned discussion to follow suit.

pedro
07-23-2010, 10:11 AM
That much being said, the OP is entitled to his or her opinion as is everyone else who expressed theirs.

traderumor
07-23-2010, 11:07 AM
I can't tell if you're kidding or not.I thought the absurdity of the original post made the absurdity of my post clear, but edited for clarity :)

traderumor
07-23-2010, 11:09 AM
So far, we are missing the obvious. Joey needed the day off because of his "issues" and "rest" is just a code word used by Dusty to keep from violating HIPPA rules. If he's not in the lineup tomorrow... I could not edit this post, so here is the edit for clarity: ";)"

Ghosts of 1990
07-23-2010, 11:32 AM
I thought the absurdity of the original post made the absurdity of my post clear, but edited for clarity :)

So absurd that; I've gotten a half dozen PM's from members who said they felt the same way.

westofyou
07-23-2010, 11:41 AM
So absurd that; I've gotten a half dozen PM's from members who said they felt the same way.

And I bet 4 times as many as those 6 feel the other way, and don't feel the need to hide that emotion in a PM.

This ain't a football game, we do this every day.

Earl Weaver

pedro
07-23-2010, 11:52 AM
So absurd that; I've gotten a half dozen PM's from members who said they felt the same way.

They, like you, are entitled to their opinion and the right to express it here if they so see fit. As are all those that feel it is absurd and over-reactionary to make claims such as you did. But let's not get too full of ourselves just because there is a voting process to grant access to the ORG (not that you personally have). Just because there is a process to "gate" posters doesn't mean that all topics are going to be treated with the same respect and reverence as others. If you post something others see as silly, expect the responses to not take you seriously, even if you were being quite serious yourself.

Perhaps we need a new stat to measure this so that we can have intelligent discussions about the concept posed by this thread? Let me propose HARP (Heart above replacement player).

Roy Tucker
07-23-2010, 12:08 PM
I've often thought that we fans under-estimate the grind of a 162 game schedule.

Some back-of-the-envelope figuring:

- season starts April 5, ends Oct. 3 - 181 days (a smidge under 6 mos. or 26 weeks)
- they play 162 games.
- 20 off days or less than one a week.

And they have to perform at a high level under the scrutiny of thousands of fans at the park and millions of fans who follow baseball (all who are very willing to volunteer their opinions). And deal with constant failure. And injury and fatigue and monumental stress.

I realize they get paid gazillions of dollars, but I think the life of a MLB player is hard. If a regular needs a day off every month or so in addition to off-days, I just don't think that is unrealistic.

I know there have been times when I've worked on projects and pulled 80-100 hr. weeks and done that for 1-6 months. I did keep my nose to the grindstone, but there were times when I'd catch myself staring at my CRT and 20-30 minutes had passed and I hadn't done a thing. I was just a zombie. Probably the best thing I could have done was just take a day off. Over the long run, I would have been better off for it.

Chip R
07-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Yeah. I think we've had just about enough of this thread. In the future, I'd rather see criticism of players, managers, etc have some basis in reality rather than what someone feels that person's personality is.