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The Voice of IH
07-24-2010, 05:12 PM
the Reds Press Pass Game Notes has Johnny Cueto going today, and Fay on twitter says that Johnny is looking pretty good. What would you do if your the manager? pitch someone who has much better stuff that just came off being ill (and I sure is weak because of it) or pitch someone who is just coming off the DL in Sam Lecure (who may not be as weak as Cueto) How fast do you pull Cueto if that is your choice, and what is your back up plan if he goes out there and is not felling wel. remember, your long relief man Owings is gone!
BTW, FWIW Johnny has a 3.39 ERA :eek: I had no idea! :)

dougdirt
07-24-2010, 05:19 PM
You pitch Cueto because you don't need to make a roster move. And the fact that he gives you a better chance to win.

membengal
07-24-2010, 05:20 PM
Lecure isn't just coming off the DL. Didn't he just go a 13 K 0 BB gem last week for L'ville?

Homer Bailey
07-24-2010, 05:20 PM
Yeah I think this one is pretty easy, but I'm guessing there won't be a shortage of people that will hammer Dusty for the decision to pitch Cueto if he is ineffective tonight.

The Voice of IH
07-24-2010, 05:24 PM
I guess my main concern is right now, what happens if Johnny Gets out their and can not compete due to weakness or whatever. you have like no options then. (unless you throw Ficher out to the sharks as well and make him pitch like 5 innings)

mth123
07-24-2010, 06:06 PM
I guess my main concern is right now, what happens if Johnny Gets out their and can not compete due to weakness or whatever. you have like no options then. (unless you throw Ficher out to the sharks as well and make him pitch like 5 innings)

I think its a valid concern. Perhaps the right move would be to go with Cueto and activate Lecure anyway as an insurance policy. No matter what though, Cueto is probably the Reds best starter right now and he gets the ball.

Ghosts of 1990
07-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Cueto at 70% I like over LeCure on his best day.

The Voice of IH
07-24-2010, 09:30 PM
not to jinx him, but it looks like my concerns were silly...

Blitz Dorsey
07-24-2010, 09:53 PM
Thank goodness Cueto was able to go tonight instead of Sam LeCure who isn't even close to ready for prime time.

Someone try and explain to me how LeCure got the first call-up this year over Travis Wood. Those are six starts lost right there. Absolutely horrible decision. The spring training decision came down to Leake or Wood for the No. 5 spot, yet when they needed someone to call up they first called upon LeCure? That was beyond terrible. Only a baseball novice would have thought that LeCure was a better option than Wood.

fearofpopvol1
07-24-2010, 10:26 PM
Cueto pitched an absolute GEM tonight. The guy looked sick, but not the kind of sick he was supposed to be.

kaldaniels
07-24-2010, 11:18 PM
Thank goodness Cueto was able to go tonight instead of Sam LeCure who isn't even close to ready for prime time.

Someone try and explain to me how LeCure got the first call-up this year over Travis Wood. Those are six starts lost right there. Absolutely horrible decision. The spring training decision came down to Leake or Wood for the No. 5 spot, yet when they needed someone to call up they first called upon LeCure? That was beyond terrible. Only a baseball novice would have thought that LeCure was a better option than Wood.

I give Walt and Dusty the benefit of the doubt on most things. But I hated that decision as well.

RedsManRick
07-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Thank goodness Cueto was able to go tonight instead of Sam LeCure who isn't even close to ready for prime time.

Someone try and explain to me how LeCure got the first call-up this year over Travis Wood. Those are six starts lost right there. Absolutely horrible decision. The spring training decision came down to Leake or Wood for the No. 5 spot, yet when they needed someone to call up they first called upon LeCure? That was beyond terrible. Only a baseball novice would have thought that LeCure was a better option than Wood.

Really simple, for all the claims about being scouting driven, many people in baseball have trouble ignoring certain stats. Wood had a fairly high ERA early in the year thanks to some HR issues and LeCure's was strong.

If the Reds weren't 100% that Wood was ready, but believed he was the better choice long term, it may have been one of those things where they didn't just want to jerk him around and LeCure looked like a guy who could string some solid starts together. The one that really bugged me was him getting the call over Maloney.

oregonred
07-25-2010, 01:07 AM
Someone try and explain to me how LeCure got the first call-up this year over Travis Wood. Those are six starts lost right there. Absolutely horrible decision. The spring training decision came down to Leake or Wood for the No. 5 spot, yet when they needed someone to call up they first called upon LeCure? That was beyond terrible. Only a baseball novice would have thought that LeCure was a better option than Wood.

Good point. They should have called up Maloney first then Wood and then LeCure. Sam did pitch a couple of decent games and had a murderers row of aces he ran up against. Although they made the right call on Leake out of Spring Training.

The only good thing is that Wood won't be a Super-2 with a July call up date.

The bad side is the Reds bringing up Cueto from the git-go in 2008 and Leake in 2010 means one less year of control... Seems kind of silly to think about, but will become huge when 2013 rolls around and Cueto can walk if no extension is worked out.

IslandRed
07-25-2010, 12:44 PM
Really simple, for all the claims about being scouting driven, many people in baseball have trouble ignoring certain stats. Wood had a fairly high ERA early in the year thanks to some HR issues and LeCure's was strong.

If the Reds weren't 100% that Wood was ready, but believed he was the better choice long term, it may have been one of those things where they didn't just want to jerk him around and LeCure looked like a guy who could string some solid starts together. The one that really bugged me was him getting the call over Maloney.

Yeah... at the time, they were expecting to need a fill-in for one start, or maybe two or three over a 15-day DL turn, and they reached for the guy pitching best right that moment. Had they known Bailey was going to be out this long, maybe they take the longer view and make a different call. I don't know.

Nonetheless, it cost the Reds little if anything in the standings. In Lecure's six starts, we won two. In the four losses, the offense scored 0, 1, 1 and 3 runs. Maybe Wood wins the "3" game, but beyond that, it's not likely it changes the record at all. Having said that, I'm glad Wood is in the rotation now.

jojo
07-25-2010, 12:48 PM
Really simple, for all the claims about being scouting driven, many people in baseball have trouble ignoring certain stats. Wood had a fairly high ERA early in the year thanks to some HR issues and LeCure's was strong.

I think it was more a cover your booty decision....

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 01:03 PM
I think Wood's got some pastings on the horizon (he kind of sucked against one of the worst offenses in the universe, the Astros). He might be a good pitcher--maybe even considerably better than Lecure--but frankly, he's just another young pitcher until he stops being just a young pitcher. Counting on him to be a serious cog for the rotation down the stretch is imbecilic. The Reds' plan for August and September, best as I can tell, is crossing their fingers.

Cedric
07-25-2010, 01:06 PM
I think Wood's got some pastings on the horizon (he kind of sucked against one of the worst offenses in the universe, the Astros). He might be a good pitcher--maybe even considerably better than Lecure--but frankly, he's just another young pitcher until he stops being just a young pitcher. Counting on him to be a serious cog for the rotation down the stretch is imbecilic. The Reds' plan for August and September, best as I can tell, is crossing their fingers.

Welcome to baseball outside of Nyc, Boston, and maybe LA.

Luck and career years are needed to compete.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 01:11 PM
Welcome to baseball outside of Nyc, Boston, and maybe LA.

Luck and career years are needed to compete.

Mid and small market teams rent aces (Milwaukee, Texas, St. Louis, Houston--several years back).

The Voice of IH
07-25-2010, 01:34 PM
I think Wood's got some pastings on the horizon (he kind of sucked against one of the worst offenses in the universe, the Astros). He might be a good pitcher--maybe even considerably better than Lecure--but frankly, he's just another young pitcher until he stops being just a young pitcher. Counting on him to be a serious cog for the rotation down the stretch is imbecilic. The Reds' plan for August and September, best as I can tell, is crossing their fingers.

I really disagree with that. He was pinned with 3 cheap runs. He could have easily have went out and given up 1 run in 6 innings.
Though he was not great, 9 hits, he definitely did not suck

EDIT: Apon Further Reading, I disagree with the entire post ;), I think Wood is going to be Dominate, him, Leakes, Cueto, Volquez will be a rotation, next year and many after, that historians are going to talk about...2 cents

fearofpopvol1
07-25-2010, 02:19 PM
I think Wood's got some pastings on the horizon (he kind of sucked against one of the worst offenses in the universe, the Astros). He might be a good pitcher--maybe even considerably better than Lecure--but frankly, he's just another young pitcher until he stops being just a young pitcher. Counting on him to be a serious cog for the rotation down the stretch is imbecilic. The Reds' plan for August and September, best as I can tell, is crossing their fingers.

Up until the last game, Wood had the 4th lowest BAA in MLB history to start a career. Of course a rookie pitcher was bound to have a less than stellar game. 4 runs in 6 innings isn't great, but it hardly sucks.

Again, I think sometimes your expectations are a bit wild and unrealistic.

jojo
07-25-2010, 02:41 PM
Up until the last game, Wood had the 4th lowest BAA in MLB history to start a career. Of course a rookie pitcher was bound to have a less than stellar game. 4 runs in 6 innings isn't great, but it hardly sucks.

Again, I think sometimes your expectations are a bit wild and unrealistic.

I think he's mostly arguing that Wood isn't going to maintain the 4th lowest BAA in MLB history as he pitches more and his true talent level emerges.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 02:42 PM
Up until the last game, Wood had the 4th lowest BAA in MLB history to start a career. Of course a rookie pitcher was bound to have a less than stellar game. 4 runs in 6 innings isn't great, but it hardly sucks.

Again, I think sometimes your expectations are a bit wild and unrealistic.

My expectations are that he's a rookie and he's not going to pitch shut-outs and near-perfect games every time out. That's about as realistic as a person could be. Expecting him to perform even at a Johnny Cueto level till the end of the season would be a wild expectation. That of course isn't Wood's fault, but it IS the front office's fault if they expect him to pitch like he has so far consistently.

dougdirt
07-25-2010, 03:08 PM
My expectations are that he's a rookie and he's not going to pitch shut-outs and near-perfect games every time out. That's about as realistic as a person could be. Expecting him to perform even at a Johnny Cueto level till the end of the season would be a wild expectation. That of course isn't Wood's fault, but it IS the front office's fault if they expect him to pitch like he has so far consistently.

Sure, but lets say that his ERA from now until the end of the season (12 more starts, say 70 innings) is between 4.00 and 4.50 (somewhere in his 'true talent' range for right now), he would finish the season with an ERA between 3.60 and 4.00.

I don't think anyone expects him to continue a sub 3.00 ERA. I do think a lot expect him to be the pitcher I described above moving forward this season. At the end of the season, he is going to have some pretty good numbers if he does.

nemesis
07-26-2010, 02:25 AM
Who really knows what he will trend at in the Majors. If you go by his minors numbers, he gets better the second time through a league. Meaning he learns from his mistakes and limits the number of times he repeats them. He probably will be the one sent down though when Bailey is activated to create a roster and rotation space and save service time so it's a moot point.