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_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 01:41 PM
Lineups per Fay

Brandon Phillips 4
Orlando Cabrera 6
Joey Votto 3
Jonny Gomes 7
Chris Heisey 9
Miguel Cairo 5
Drew Stubbs 8
Ryan Hanigan 2
Mike Leake RHP


vs. LHP Wandy Rodriguez


Heisey has never faced Rodriguez, but Jay Bruce is 1-for-17 with 10 strikeouts vs. Rodriguez.


Gomes (6-for-13, 6 RBI) and Cairo (4-for-7) have hit Rodriguez hard.
Dusty Baker mentioned you can go back to 10 days to put someone retroactively on the disabled list. We’re up nine days without Scott Rolen in the lineup.


Makes sense. The thing that really strikes me as odd is that this is Sunday. That doesn't look like a Sunday Special. :O) GO REDLEGS!

Puffy
07-25-2010, 01:47 PM
I like it - I think Wandy is the type of guy Heisey can mash.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 01:50 PM
I like it - I think Wandy is the type of guy Heisey can mash.

Like Oswalt last night, this is not the same Wandy we saw last year. He's VERY hittable this season. I think Jay would have a good shot off him too. But I still like the decision. Chris deserves a start too.

Puffy
07-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Like Oswalt last night, this is not the same Wandy we saw last year. He's VERY hittable this season. I think Jay would have a good shot off him too. But I still like the decision. Chris deserves a start too.

Oh yeah - I never said I didn't want Bruce in there. Just that this is a guy tailor made for Heisey to hit hard.

Tornon
07-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Just pondering.. If Leake really does turn out to be a .330 - .340 career hitter, do you think he'll ever bat higher than 9th?

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 02:43 PM
Wandy usually gives the Reds fits. He's a lefty. Tough sailing ahead.

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 02:46 PM
Just pondering.. If Leake really does turn out to be a .330 - .340 career hitter, do you think he'll ever bat higher than 9th?

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

I doubt his .500 BABIP continues.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:04 PM
I can do some PBP.

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:06 PM
We are go
Phillips up

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:08 PM
9
1 out
Cabrera up

320

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:09 PM
No 1st pich swingin?

Degenerate39
07-25-2010, 03:10 PM
Chat is open

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:10 PM
3
2 out
Votto up

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:12 PM
1B
Runner on 1st
2 out
Gomes up

Joey's just en fuego

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:13 PM
As usual, the Reds can't figure out Rodriguez.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:13 PM
Heck of a compliment there from the Astros announcers on Votto's single & eye/hand coordination. "very Rod Carew-like".

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:14 PM
6-3
3 out
Top of 1st over
Bourn up

0-0

320

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:14 PM
As usual, the Reds can't figure out Rodriguez.

Its 1 inning today...

Last time the Reds faced him, they tore him up 8 ER's.

Last 8 years, Oswalt owned the Reds.. he didn't last night...

Calm down... its just 1 inning

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:14 PM
Bourn 8
Hernandez 6
Berkman 3
Pence 9
Lee 7
Keppinger 4
Johnson 5
Castro 2
Rodriguez 1

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:15 PM
Its 1 inning today...

Last time the Reds faced him, they tore him up 8 ER's.

Last 8 years, Oswalt owned the Reds.. he didn't last night...

Calm down... its just 1 inning

I'm not upset. Just stating the obvious.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:15 PM
Its 1 inning today...

Last time the Reds faced him, they tore him up 8 ER's.

Last 8 years, Oswalt owned the Reds.. he didn't last night...

Calm down... its just 1 inning

Exactly. And while he's been pitching a bit better lately, this certainly isn't the same Wandy Houston's been throwing out there the past 2 years either. He's VERY hittable this year.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:16 PM
1B
Runner on 1st
0 out
Sanchez up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:17 PM
Ump makes Leake take off his yellow bracelet. :O)

BCubb2003
07-25-2010, 03:18 PM
Over-accessorizing is a fashion no-no.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:19 PM
This could be a high scoring one if the ump keeps squeezing guys. That's already two clear strikes this inning he's called balls.

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:19 PM
I couldn't tell--was it one of those Livestrong vinyl brackets or something else?

BCubb2003
07-25-2010, 03:19 PM
I couldn't tell--was it one of those Livestrong vinyl brackets or something else?

That's what it looked like.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:20 PM
I couldn't tell--was it one of those Livestrong vinyl brackets or something else?

Yep. Livestrong

YESSIRREE! Dp!

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:20 PM
DP 6-3
DP6 6/ Bourn
2 out
Berkman up

320

Gallen5862
07-25-2010, 03:20 PM
Lets go Reds. Thanks for the PBP.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:20 PM
You're welcome. :)

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Yep. Livestrong

YESSIRREE! Dp!

Like the DP.

What harm would one of those do? Could he cheat with it?

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Like the DP.

What harm would one of those do? Could he cheat with it?

Distracting for the hitter. At least I'm assuming that's the thinking.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:21 PM
As usual, the Reds pitcher gives up a hit... But thats it :)

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:21 PM
4-3
3 out
Bottom of 1st over
Heisey up

0-0

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Wonder who's idea that bunt was. Yikes.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:23 PM
3U
1 out
Cairo up

320

The Voice of IH
07-25-2010, 03:24 PM
That was crazy stupid.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:24 PM
I hope that bunt was Dusty and not Chris himself. What a waste of an at bat. Chris, you're in there to swing.

The Voice of IH
07-25-2010, 03:25 PM
not a good inning at all

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:25 PM
Wait, there was an inning there?

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:25 PM
Cairo swung at three pitches at his shoulders that at bat.

This offense is the anti-Yankees. I'm not sure anybody besides Votto can actually work a pitcher.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:25 PM
K(swinging)
2 out
Stubbs up

9
3 out
Top of 2nd over
Pence up

0-0

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:26 PM
Two innings--24 pitches. The Wandy Rodriguez preservation society lives.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:26 PM
Two innings--24 pitches. The Wandy Rodriguez preservation society lives.

6 pitches last inning. All fastballs. All swings. That's a crime. This team has gotten VERY hacktastic lately.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:28 PM
HR, RBI, R
0 out
Lee up

SCORE CHANGE: 1-0, Astros

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:28 PM
I hate the crawford boxes.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:29 PM
9
1 out
Keppinger up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:30 PM
Cairo swung at three pitches at his shoulders that at bat.

This offense is the anti-Yankees. I'm not sure anybody besides Votto can actually work a pitcher.

Hanigan is very good at it, as is Janish, as is Rolen.

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:30 PM
Lefties are our kryptonite. Like someone else said, we blasted him last time but he's had 4 of his last 5 starts in the quality column, including 6 shutout innings against SF. That HR may be big before it's over.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:30 PM
Hanigan is very good at it, as is Janish, as is Rolen.

Throw Phillips into the mix

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:31 PM
Throw Phillips into the mix

I almost did. He's MUCH better in that regard this year.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:31 PM
BB
Runner on 1st
1 out
Johnson up

reds44
07-25-2010, 03:31 PM
Did Welsh die?

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:32 PM
8
2 out
Castro up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:33 PM
goodness. this strikezone is ridiculous.

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Lefties are our kryptonite.

Reds OPS vs. LHP: .778
Reds OPS vs. RHP: .778

Kryptonite ain't what it used to be.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Leake looks pissed. He should be. Postage stamp size zone.

Carpenter & Dempster later tonight.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:35 PM
BB
1B->2B/ Keppinger
Runners on 1st and 2nd
2 out
Rodriguez up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:35 PM
Reds OPS vs. LHP: .778
Reds OPS vs. RHP: .778

Kryptonite ain't what it used to be.

I knew that was the case, but didn't have the numbers. Thanks Puffy.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:35 PM
Listening to Jon Miller's HOF speech right now on mlb.com. Very funny. He seems to be an awesome guy.

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:35 PM
What's the W-L against left handers this year?

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:35 PM
I don't know. Against Castro, Gameday shows all 5 pitches as balls. Dude needs to trust his stuff low in the zone and stop trying to paint the corners so perfectly. I think the HR has him a little paranoid.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:36 PM
3U
3 out
Bottom of 2nd over
Hanigan up

1-0, Astros

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:37 PM
What's the W-L against left handers this year?

W/L wouldn't tell the story, would it? How many of those games were decided against the bullpen and not the starter?

I don't have the W/L though.

Joseph
07-25-2010, 03:38 PM
Patrick Patterson sighting for all you UK fans.

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:38 PM
W/L wouldn't tell the story, would it? How many of those games were decided against the bullpen and not the starter?

I don't have the W/L though.Good point. Also, how many times did the lefty stifle us only for the bullpen to give it up? Would take a statistician to do all that. Never mind :).

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:38 PM
Patrick Patterson sighting for all you UK fans.

Or Rockets fans. :O)

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:39 PM
3
1 out
Leake up

320

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 03:39 PM
What's the W-L against left handers this year?

W/L is not a particularly good way of judging any particular thing other than how many games you have won/lost.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:40 PM
Leake just missed getting that HR.

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 03:41 PM
Good point. Also, how many times did the lefty stifle us only for the bullpen to give it up? Would take a statistician to do all that. Never mind :).

The fact of the matter is our team is hitting LHP every bit as good as RHP.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:41 PM
Leake having a great AB so far.

320

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Add Leake to the short list of guys who can put a good at bat together. The guy always seems to work deep counts.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:42 PM
K(swinging)
2 out
Phillips up

320

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Think Stubbs and Cairo, and others are taking notes from Leake's at-bat :)?

K's anyway.

Joseph
07-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Or Rockets fans. :O)

That too.

Assuming you are, you're gonna love this kid.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:43 PM
Good point. Also, how many times did the lefty stifle us only for the bullpen to give it up? Would take a statistician to do all that. Never mind :).

LOL. And that I ain't. :O)

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:43 PM
I think Leake not spending time in the minors is a big help for him at the plate. I imagine most pitchers would be better hitters if they didn't atrophy for a few years in the minor leagues.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:43 PM
That too.

Assuming you are, you're gonna love this kid.

Yep. I hope so.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:44 PM
4-3
3 out
Top of 3rd over
Bourn up

1-0, Astros

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:45 PM
Add Leake to the short list of guys who can put a good at bat together. The guy always seems to work deep counts.

I don't think Owings is the best hitting pitcher on our 40-man.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:47 PM
That would've been impressive as heck. Tough luck.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:47 PM
1B/ off Leake's glove, Cairo couldn't make it
Runner on 1st
0 out
Sanchez up

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:48 PM
7
1 out
Runner on 1st
Berkman up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Poor throw from Hanigan. I haven't seen that very much.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:49 PM
SB2
1B->2B/ Bourn
Runner on 2nd
1 out
Berkman (still) up

320

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 03:49 PM
I don't think Owings is the best hitting pitcher on our 40-man.

Owings has a career OPS of .861 with a BABIP of .391.

Leaks has a OPS of .852 with a BABIP of .500.

It's a little early to be judging Leake better IMO.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:49 PM
SH 3U
2B->3B/ Bourn
2 out
Runner on 3rd
Pence up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:50 PM
Owings has a career OPS of .861 with a BABIP of .391.

Leaks has a OPS of .852 with a BABIP of .500.

It's a little early to be judging Leake better IMO.

Unless Owings gets some regular reps, I don't think he can hold onto those numbers. He's looked pretty bad up there when he did manage to get AB's this year.

But yes, you're right. I'm just speculating that it might not be so cut and dry as many might think.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:51 PM
K (called)
3 out
Bottom of 3rd over
Cabrera up

1-0, Astros

320

Kc61
07-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Time for the Reds to generate some offense.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:53 PM
Jared Burton has 0.63 ERA over his last 10 games. 13 IP, 8 hits, 6 walks, 16 Ks, 3 saves

PuffyPig
07-25-2010, 03:53 PM
Unless Owings gets some regular reps, I don't think he can hold onto those numbers. He's looked pretty bad up there when he did manage to get AB's this year.

But yes, you're right. I'm just speculating that it might not be so cut and dry as many might think.

I agree Owings might not hold unto those numbers, but do you realy think Leak can continue to get a .500 BABIP?

He's likely on shakier ground.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:54 PM
Time to send Fisher back down and bring Burton up....

Bray down and Chapman up....

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:55 PM
K(swinging)
1 out
Votto up

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:56 PM
6-3
2 out
Gomes up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:56 PM
I agree Owings might not hold unto those numbers, but do you realy think Leak can continue to get a .500 BABIP?

He's likely on shakier ground.

No, I don't think he can. But that being said, he puts together MUCH better at bats than Owings. Different kinds of hitters.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 03:57 PM
No, I don't think he can. But that being said, he puts together MUCH better at bats than Owings. Different kinds of hitters.

Owings is more of a double/HR hitting pitcher, where as Leake is a worker single/double type of guy.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 03:58 PM
BB
Runner on 1st
2 out
Heisey up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 03:58 PM
Better OF arm.....Andre Dawson or Jay Bruce?

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:01 PM
^^
I dunno, I haven't watched much old baseball at all, but the only players I've personally ever seen with a better arm were Junior in his prime, and Ichiro.

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:02 PM
Old baseball.....that's depressing. *grin*

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:02 PM
^^
Sorry about that. :D

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:03 PM
K(swinging)
3 out
Top of 4th over
Lee up

1-0, Astros

320

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 04:03 PM
As a watcher of lots of old baseball, let me say nobody compares to Clemente.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:05 PM
2B
Runner on 2nd
0 out
Keppinger up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:06 PM
As a watcher of lots of old baseball, let me say nobody compares to Clemente.

I agree. But I'm just talking about those 2 guys. The Astros announcers got me thinking about it with the Hawk's induction today.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:07 PM
Btw...why in the world was Heisey laying out on that one. He didn't have a chance at it. Odd.

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 04:08 PM
I agree. But I'm just talking about those 2 guys. The Astros announcers got me thinking about it with the Hawk's induction today.

Was really responsing to Redsfan320's further comment. From what I remember of Dawson, he and Bruce are very comparable.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Btw...why in the world was Heisey laying out on that one. He didn't have a chance at it. Odd.

Dive or not dive - it was going to be a double.... Just seeing if he could get lucky is all....

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:09 PM
BB
Runners on 1st and 2nd
0 out
Johnson up

Brantley: "So Mike Keppinger will head down to 1st, er, Jeff Keppinger"

Hokie, I figured there were some other historical players that had a better arm, I was just stating those that I had actually seen throw better.

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:09 PM
Maybe it's just my plus 40 body wondering why anyone would subject themselves to that pounding without a realistic shot at getting it. :)

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Nice! Yessirree! 5-3 DP

membengal
07-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Mike Leake pitches way beyond his years.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:11 PM
DP 5-3
DP5 5/ Lee
1B->2B/ Keppinger
2 out
Runner on 2nd
Castro up

320

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2010, 04:11 PM
What a play by Gomes!

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Now thats playing some D

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Gomes can't play defense. NICE SNAG!!!!

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Redsfan320,
Some of those "historical" players are actual ones to others of us!

kbrake
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Fantastic grab by Gomes.

redhawkfish
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Gomes is smooth in left!!:D Nice play Johnny!

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Blind squirrel meet nut.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Mike Leake pitches way beyond his years.
Yes, it's a good thing he's unflappable...today he's pitched himself into jams every inning. He's cooler than the other side of the pillow. :cool:

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:13 PM
Redsfan320,
Some of those "historical" players are actual ones to others of us!


LOL. Exactly. :beerme:

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:13 PM
7
3 out
Bottom of 4th over
Cairo up

1-0, Astros

Brantley sounded awful excited on the catch, looking forward to seeing it.

Hokie, let me change my wording: players from an older era. That better. :D

320

BCubb2003
07-25-2010, 04:13 PM
Gomes showing Heisey how it's done.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Gomes is the best "terrible" defensive player I have ever seen. His detractors won't give him credit, but he's not going to kill you defensively and he will make some very good plays on occasion. And that one was far beyond "very good." It was excellent and saved a run (maybe more because there would have been a runner on second with two outs).

Keep proving people wrong Jonny!

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:14 PM
7
3 out
Bottom of 4th over
Cairo up

1-0, Astros

Brantley sounded awful excited on the catch, looking forward to seeing it.

Hokie, let me change my wording: players from an older era. That better. :D

320

Not much you young whipper-snapper! *grin*

Ron Madden
07-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Gomes showing Heisey how it's done.

I thought he trapped it untill I saw a replay. :)

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Blind squirrel meet nut.

Yawn. Funny how often that blind squirrel makes a solid defensive play. I watch every game. Not saying you don't. But do you? Or are you relying on the bogus defensive "stats"?

BCubb2003
07-25-2010, 04:16 PM
Gomes did have a bad play in the latest meltdown, I think, but he's not the liability most left fielders are.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:17 PM
I agree with Blitz. He may make the occasional bad read/route, but he puts forth all-out effort and he makes the most of his abilities out there IMO.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:17 PM
BB
Runner on 1st
0 out
Stubbs up

320

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 04:17 PM
I'll take the guy anytime just for his all round effort.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:18 PM
BTW, Gomes is this year's Reds nominee for the Heart and Hustle award. Well deserved.

320

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:18 PM
Gomes is the best "terrible" defensive player I have ever seen. His detractors won't give him credit, but he's not going to kill you defensively and he will make some very good plays on occasion. And that one was far beyond "very good." It was excellent and saved a run (maybe more because there would have been a runner on second with two outs).

Keep proving people wrong Jonny!
Look at every defensive metric ever created, and you're wrong.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:18 PM
Anybody know where the term "Uncle Charlie" came from?

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:19 PM
Whaddya know, I'm at 1,000 posts. Since GT posts don't count, I'll have to go find what it was.

K(Called)/ #101 in game #100 for Stubbs
1 out
Runner on 1st
Hanigan up

320

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:20 PM
How do you not swing at that pitch with 2 strikes Drew?

TheNext44
07-25-2010, 04:20 PM
Yawn. Funny how often that blind squirrel makes a solid defensive play. I watch every game. Not saying you don't. But do you? Or are you relying on the bogus defensive "stats"?

Not to speak for RMR, but I can't remember a game thread that didn't have him on it. I can't think of anyone here who follows the Reds more closely than RMR.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
I love how we can't just enjoy Gomes' play, but you felt the need to call people out who thinks he's a bad defender.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
This was my 1000th post:


Rolen himself told Fay today that he hopes to be in the lineup sometime in the Milwaukee series.

320

Interesting. Nothing witty or insightful, but nothing stupid either. A piece of news.

320

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
Gomes is the best "terrible" defensive player I have ever seen. His detractors won't give him credit, but he's not going to kill you defensively and he will make some very good plays on occasion. And that one was far beyond "very good." It was excellent and saved a run (maybe more because there would have been a runner on second with two outs).

Keep proving people wrong Jonny!

A better break and a better route and he catches that in stride. Bad defenders make some of the most impressive plays on TV. I'm glad he made the catch, but let's hang on to the gold glove.

edabbs44
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Look at every defensive metric you've ever created, and you're wrong.

Hmmmmmm

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
A better break and a better route and he catches that in stride. Bad defenders make some of the most impressive plays on TV.


Game's so easy.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Hanigan gave that one a ride.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
8
2 out
Runner on 1st
Leake up

320

TheNext44
07-25-2010, 04:23 PM
This was my 1000th post:



Interesting. Nothing witty or insightful, but nothing stupid either. A piece of news.

320

Hooray!!!

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:24 PM
^^
Hooray for me getting 1 grand posts, or Hooray for Rolen probably coming back soon. Or both? :D

320

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:24 PM
Yawn. Funny how often that blind squirrel makes a solid defensive play. I watch every game. Not saying you don't. But do you? Or are you relying on the bogus defensive "stats"?

Bogus = you disagree with them. I promise you I watch plenty of baseball. If you watch other teams, you'll notice that most other LFs make Gomes look pretty bad by comparison. I'll take a career worth of the stats over what you can see on TV 8 days a week. The occasional diving catch does not a good fielder make -- bad defenders make diving catches all the time.

Judging defense by watching on TV is tough. Our brains are wired to remember the exceptions, not the rules. The ball that drops in front of him or just of his reach doesn't stick in our memory. Yet it's the aggregate that counts. As imperfect as the defensive metrics are, they do a much better job at integrating every play in their evaluation than does a human being who is not explicitly trained to do so. Seeing as how this is a game thread -- I'll leave it here.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:25 PM
A better break and a better route and he catches that in stride. Bad defenders make some of the most impressive plays on TV. I'm glad he made the catch, but let's hang on to the gold glove.

I obviously don't know the numbers as well as you do Rick, but from what I've seen in his tenure with the Reds, he's not hurt us much defensively. I'm not sure I buy the making it in stride part, but it's the end result that matters. And overall, that end result hasn't been too darned bad this year.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:25 PM
4-3
3 out
Top of 5th over
Rodriguez up

1-0, Astros

320

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:26 PM
I love how we can't just enjoy Gomes' play, but you felt the need to call people out who thinks he's a bad defender.

Listen son, I didn't make my comment out of nowhere. It's too bad we can't just enjoy Gomes' good play without someone making a "blind squirrel finding a nut" comment (which is what I was responding to).

If people are going to keep calling Gomes "the worst defensive LF in baseball" I will continue telling them they're wrong. And Gomes will keep proving them wrong on the field.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:28 PM
Well, despite the "strike zone", Mike's managed to put together a nice outing thus far.

Tony Cloninger
07-25-2010, 04:29 PM
This team has lost 1-0 two Sundays in a row. Can they please start timing this guy's curveball soon.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:29 PM
K(swinging)
1 out
Bourn up

320

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:29 PM
K(swinging)
2 out
Hernandez up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:30 PM
LOL. What in the world was THAT?!?

Nice bunting technique.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:30 PM
4-3
3 out
Bottom of 5th over
Phillips up

320

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:31 PM
4-3
3 out
Bottom of 5th over
Phillips up

320
Woohoo! Mike's first 1-2-3 inning of the day! I think he's settling in. :beerme:

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:33 PM
Votto's going oppo this inning.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
K (swinging)
1 out
Cabrera up

320

membengal
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
The Reds need some sort of exorcism to get rid of their Sunday offensive demons.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Votto's going oppo this inning.I'm thinking it will be Gomes or Heisey if we get to them. :thumbup:

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Wandy isn't pitching that good of a game ... we're just bailing him out when he throws terrible pitches. What the heck kind of an AB was that from Phillips?

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Brandon! That was horrible. K's on a curve in the dirt.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Listen son, I didn't make my comment out of nowhere. It's too bad we can't just enjoy Gomes' good play without someone making a "blind squirrel finding a nut" comment (which is what I was responding to).

If people are going to keep calling Gomes "the worst defensive LF in baseball" I will continue telling them they're wrong. And Gomes will keep proving them wrong on the field.
Everything you will find will call him the worst defensive LFer in baseball. There's literally nothing you can show somebody that will say they're wrong.

You're more than entitled to your opinon, but don't be surprised when somebody makes a comment about how bad his defense is, cause it's real bad.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:35 PM
6-3
2 out
Votto up

320

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 04:35 PM
Someone wake up the bats... I'm starting to fall asleep...

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:35 PM
This has all the making of a 1-0 loss.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:36 PM
People don't watch Manny Ramirez enough if they think he's a better defensive LF than Gomes. Any "metric" that has Ramirez ranked ahead of Gomes defensively is completely invalid. Well, for those of us that watch the games.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:36 PM
This has all the making of a 1-0 loss.

You're forgetting the Astros have a bullpen on their club. :O)

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:36 PM
This has all the making of a 1-0 loss.

Yep. When this offense is bad, it's BAD. Let's hope somebody can put one in the Crawford boxes in the next 4 outs.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:37 PM
3U
3 out
Top of 6th over
Berkman up

1-0, Astros

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:37 PM
Yep. When this offense is bad, it's BAD. Let's hope somebody can put one in the Crawford boxes in the next 4 outs.

It's the 6th inning.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:37 PM
People don't watch Manny Ramirez enough if they think he's a better defensive LF than Gomes. Any "metric" that has Ramirez ranked ahead of Gomes defensively is completely invalid. Well, for those of us that watch the games.
How many times have you watched the routes that Gomes (and especially) Manny take to balls this season?

There's a lot more to playing defense than just catching stuff you get to.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:38 PM
Everything you will find will call him the worst defensive LFer in baseball. There's literally nothing you can show somebody that will say they're wrong.

You're more than entitled to your opinon, but don't be surprised when somebody makes a comment about how bad his defense is, cause it's real bad.
I agree with Blitz. Gomes is not the worst defensive LF in baseball. I've yet to see evidence that any defensive metric is accurate.

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 04:38 PM
Hmm. We only have one hit, and yet, Wandy is at 95 pitches through 6.

This team sure is hacktastic.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:38 PM
How many times have you watched the routes that Gomes (and especially) Manny take to balls this season?

There's a lot more to playing defense than just catching stuff you get to.

Yes, I understand that. That is like saying for WRs in football it's not just about catching the ball, but running good routes. Duh.

Carlos Lee is another one that is worse defensively than Gomes.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:38 PM
It's the 6th inning.

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that. I have trouble with numbers.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:39 PM
7
1 out
Pence up

320

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:39 PM
I agree with Blitz. Gomes is not the worst defensive LF in baseball. I've yet to see evidence that any defensive metric is accurate.
I hate defensive metrics, but Gomes (if not the worst) is right up there in the worst. I agree he's better than Manny, but other than that, I don't know.

He gets awful jumps and takes awful routes and is bad around the wall.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:40 PM
To be clear, I am not saying Gomes is GOOD defensively or even AVERAGE. He is definitely below-average. But he's not the joke that a lot of people make him out to be. Not even close. There are worse in the National League and I just named two of them.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:40 PM
How many times have you watched the routes that Gomes (and especially) Manny take to balls this season?

There's a lot more to playing defense than just catching stuff you get to.

I don't know the metrics (boy I type that alot) so I'll take your guys' word on the range & zone stuff. But my eyes can't be THAT bad. His career may have him as a bottom of the league type of defender, but this season he's looked league average IMO. And I've watched a LOT of other teams.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:41 PM
Thanks. I wasn't aware of that. I have trouble with numbers.

LOL. I was just wondering what you meant by the "4 outs" comment. I figured you lost track of the inning. My appologies Rick. :O)

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:42 PM
1-3
2 out
Lee up

320

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:42 PM
After many years of watching Adam Dunn 'play' left field, Gomes looks awesome. That's all I'm saying. :D

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 04:42 PM
To be clear, I am not saying Gomes is GOOD defensively or even AVERAGE. He is definitely below-average. But he's not the joke that a lot of people make him out to be. Not even close. There are worse in the National League and I just named two of them.

I'll throw Soriano in the mix too. Dude is a joke.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Come on offense. This is the inning to get it done!

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:43 PM
9
3 out
Bottom of 6th over
Gomes up

1-0, Astros

320

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:43 PM
I'll throw Soriano in the mix too. Dude is a joke.

Good lookin' out. Soriano is a dumpster fire as a defensive LF. Talk about a guy getting bad jumps and taking terrible angles. (He does have good speed though, but Gomes' speed is very underrated.) So, now we're up to 3 in the NL alone.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:43 PM
9
3 out
Bottom of 6th over
Gomes up

1-0, Astros

320
Another 1-2-3 inning! Mike is Rolen...er, Rollin'! :beerme:

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:44 PM
After many years of watching Adam Dunn 'play' left field, Gomes looks awesome. That's all I'm saying. :D

LOL. I was thinking the same thing. hehe.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
After many years of watching Adam Dunn 'play' left field, Gomes looks awesome. That's all I'm saying. :D

Yeah, maybe I'm a bit skewed by that. ;-)

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Might have been a HR at GABP there.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Not in this place.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
8
1 out
Heisey up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Freaking cavern out there in center. *sigh*

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 04:47 PM
Reds totally lost against Wandy. One freaking hit. One.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:47 PM
5-3
2 out
Cairo up

320

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:47 PM
This Johnson kid's impressed me this year. He's got some solid potential IMO.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2010, 04:47 PM
I gotta admit: I love the terrace in CF. And word is they did it as a tribute to old Crosley Field. Not sure if there is any validity to that though since I can't imagine Houston doing anything as a "tribute" to Cincinnati.

And the terrace in CF makes up for those ridiculous "Crawford Boxes" down the line in left.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:48 PM
The Reds have lost their last two Sunday games 1-0.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:50 PM
K(called)
3 out
Top of 7th over
Keppinger up

1-0, Astros

320

CrackerJack
07-25-2010, 04:51 PM
A 1 hit shutout through 6 on a Sunday, while the Reds starter has held the opposition to 1 run....shocking.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:52 PM
Reds totally lost against Wandy. One freaking hit. One.109 pitches through 7, so hopefully we'll be into their bullpen next inning. :D

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:52 PM
I gotta admit: I love the terrace in CF. And word is they did it as a tribute to old Crosley Field. Not sure if there is any validity to that though since I can't imagine Houston doing anything as a "tribute" to Cincinnati.

And the terrace in CF makes up for those ridiculous "Crawford Boxes" down the line in left.

It was indeed a tribute to the old stadiums with inclines at the fence. But Crosley wasn't the only one to have that. Same goes for the flag pole in play. That was also a tribute to the old stadiums.

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Great play by Cabrera.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
What a play from OC.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Wow, that hot dog graphic was creepy as hell lol

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
OCab, another crappy defender with no range. I don't think he moved more than two feet there.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Wow. That was the best play I've ever seen from Cabrera this year....by FAR. Range, jump throw, nice all around.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Even I can give OCab props for that one. I'm not sure he gets there earlier in the year.

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
2-0 Astros as Johnson hits one way out to left.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Crap. Chris Johnson dinger.

WVRedsFan
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
That HR by Johnson might have sealed the loss.

CTA513
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
OCab, another crappy defender with no range. I don't think he moved more than two feet there.

Best shortstop in the majors.

WebScorpion
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Uh OH! :eek:

Degenerate39
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Cabby's play looks even better now

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
6-3
1 out
Johnson up

HR, RBI, R/ 1st pitch
1 out
Castro up

SCORE CHANGE: 2-0, Astros

320

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Hey, at least its not 1-0!

Tony Cloninger
07-25-2010, 04:56 PM
109 pitches in 7 innings ... they clearly are not hacking. They are guessing curve when he throws fastballs...like the 2nd pitch to Heisey this last inning.
They still made him work a little...not a Jon Lieber type game like in CHI..where they were looking to catch a fast train out of town.

CTA513
07-25-2010, 04:57 PM
Leake is catching up to Arroyo and Harang for the team lead in HRs allowed.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
The Reds have lost their last two Sunday games 1-0.


At least they won't lose 1-0 today.

Sad that a 1-run or 2-run deficit seems beyond insurmountable against the likes of Aaron Cook and Wandy Rodriguez for this team :thumbdown

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Now a double off the wall. Leake is done.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Might be time for the hook. He smoked that ball too.

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Double switch. Bruce into right. Rhodes in.

Kc61
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Double.

One thing about Leake, when he goes south it happens fast. I've noticed this on several occasions.

And it's not always a function of pitch count.

Double switch now, i think one batter too late.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:59 PM
Castro singles, Michaels, PHing for Wandy, doubles, sending Castro to 3rd.

320

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:59 PM
Gomes probably could have held Michaels to a single if he played that better off the wall.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:59 PM
Leake seems to be losing his command after about 80 pitches these days. He's catching an awful lot of the plate. Might be time to skip him in the rotation if Harang or Bailey is ready to go.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 04:59 PM
Rhodes in for Heisey, pitching, batting 5th
Bruce in for Leake, playing RF, batting 9th

320

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 05:00 PM
Gomes probably could have held Michaels to a single if he played that better off the wall.

I'm glad somebody else noticed...

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 05:00 PM
Gomes probably could have held Michaels to a single if he played that better off the wall.

Doubt it. It took an odd bounce off the wall there.

Redhook
07-25-2010, 05:01 PM
Doubt it. It took an odd bounce off the wall there.

True, but he was way too close to it. If he was positioned correctly, he would've easily been able to snag it.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 05:01 PM
Runners on 2nd and 3rd
1 out
Bourn up

320

Ron Madden
07-25-2010, 05:02 PM
On the double switch I would have put Bruce in RF and moved Heisey to LF.

Kc61
07-25-2010, 05:02 PM
Leake seems to be losing his command after about 80 pitches these days. He's catching an awful lot of the plate. Might be time to skip him in the rotation if Harang or Bailey is ready to go.

I agree that he has had troubles after about 80 pitches. I don't think he needs to be skipped.

Thing is, if you and I can see he is getting hit after 80 pitches, the Reds should know this too and should limit his pitches.

Let him work about 80 pitches, which is about six innings per start. They are simply leaving Leake in too long.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 05:03 PM
I would not be opposed to a walk here to set up the double play.

reds44
07-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Anytime a ball hits the wall and you have to run towards the infield, you probably misplayed it.

And this game is ovah.

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2010, 05:03 PM
That pretty much ends this game.

Kc61
07-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Leake pitching, maybe the Reds will get sixth in the ninth, to reverse the previous trend.

Probably not.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 05:03 PM
No Quality Start for Leake. I like to see guys challenge those slap hitters inside.

Redsfan320
07-25-2010, 05:04 PM
2B, 2 RBI
3B->H, R/ Castro
2B->H, R/ Michaels
1 out
Runner on 2nd
Hernandez up

SCORE CHANGE: 4-0, Astros

320

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Disappointing game. Again the Reds try to close out a sweep and just don't show up

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 05:04 PM
2 ab's left for this club and you guys are already counting them out? Have you not watched this team this season? :O)

Kc61
07-25-2010, 05:05 PM
Rhodes hasn't been as sharp in the second half.

This idea of getting Downs from Toronto to pitch lefty relief makes a lot of sense.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-25-2010, 05:05 PM
2 ab's left for this club and you guys are already counting them out? Have you not watched this team this season? :O)

I've watched them enough on Sundays

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2010, 05:06 PM
I've watched them enough on Sundays


LOL. Fair point.