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View Full Version : World Series? Get a Closer



BringDownMugabe
07-25-2010, 02:38 PM
If the Reds truly want to get to the next level, with not only getting into the playoffs, but making a strong run for the World Series, they need to get a closer who can truly be reliable. Cordero has been pretty average this season as a closer and I wouldn't assume he's going to be getting any better. This is what Cordero is posting this year as our closer:

44.2 IP: 1.50 WHIP, 2.50 OPP BA, 3.83 ERA

Pretty pedestrian numbers from a contending team's closer.

Now, look back at the five previous World Series winners and their closer's numbers for the season.

Mariano Rivera:
66.1 IP: .90 WHIP, .197 OPP BA, 1.76 ERA

Brad Lidge:
69.1 IP: 1.23 WHIP, .198 OPP BA, 1.95 ERA

Jonathan Papelbon:
58.1 IP: .77 WHIP, .136 OPP BA, 1.85 ERA

Adam Wainwright: (*Isringhausen missed entire Postseason)
9.2 IP: .93 WHIP, .237 OPP BA, 0.00 ERA

Bobby Jenks:
39.1 IP: 1.25 WHIP, .225 OPP BA, 2.75 ERA

It's pretty evident that you need a good closer if you want to win a World Series. And it has become even more evident that Cordero isn't going to cut it, especially in comparison to past World Series winning closers.

Seeing how their isn't a #1 starter available that is worth trading for, and I really don't see the need for the Reds to go out and get an impact bat, I'd really hope for the Reds to go out and get an impact closer, such as Joakim Soria or even Carlos Marmol (highly unlikely, I realize that).

Soria:
40.0 IP: 1.20 WHIP, .245 OPP BA, 2.25 ERA

Marmol:
46.1 IP: 1.25 WHIP, .148 OPP BA, 2.72 ERA

Keep in mind, I think both of their numbers would improve. Both would see an improvement in the defense behind them and would be going to a contending team. Soria would also be leaving the AL and be going to the NL.

If I'm Walt, I'm on the phone with Moore or Hendry, and I'm asking them what it'd take to get either of them. It'd probably cost us Alonso in either case, and plus some (obviously), but I'd still do it in a heartbeat.

Krawhitham
07-25-2010, 02:59 PM
Chapman will be like Francisco Rodriguez was in 2002

Griffey012
07-25-2010, 03:22 PM
Chapman will be like Francisco Rodriguez was in 2002

K-Rod could throw strikes though.

BringDownMugabe
07-25-2010, 09:46 PM
Chapman will be like Francisco Rodriguez was in 2002

KRod's '02 minor league numbers aren't very similar to Chapman's. And now with Haren gone, I'd go all out for Soria or Marmol.

redsfanmia
07-25-2010, 09:56 PM
I think the Reds need a bat not another pitcher.

Vottomatic
07-25-2010, 10:26 PM
Reds plan to bring Chapman up and have him bean the best players in the postseason and put them out. :D

knoonan991
07-25-2010, 11:43 PM
When Marmol is on he is great, but he has plenty of Cordero-like meltdowns as well. I don't really see him being much of an upgrade since he is very unreliable.

Soria on the otherhand would be great to have, but I don't think the Reds would be able to get him without overpaying. Alonso could be worth a lot for the Reds next year, why sell him short before he finally develops?

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 12:23 AM
If you don't see Marmol as much of an upgrade over Cordero then you're nuts. Guy has the most unhittable stuff in the majors.

Doesn't matter, the Cubs won't be trading the guy anytime soon.

ian_madden
07-26-2010, 12:31 AM
If you don't see Marmol as much of an upgrade over Cordero then you're nuts. Guy has the most unhittable stuff in the majors.

Doesn't matter, the Cubs won't be trading the guy anytime soon.

And if they do, it won't be to us or the Cards.

RedsLvr
07-26-2010, 12:33 AM
When Marmol is on he is great, but he has plenty of Cordero-like meltdowns as well. I don't really see him being much of an upgrade since he is very unreliable.

I wonder if people realize that pitchers can't go in there every day and throw zeros every day. Not one pitcher in major league history has done so his whole career. EXPECT pitchers to meltdown every once in a while, it happens. Marmol is one of the most reliable relievers in the majors. If it wasn't for a recent outing where he gave up 4 ER, his ERA would be under 2. The dude has pitched great every year since 2006.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:00 AM
I think the Reds need a bat not another pitcher.

I concur.

This team should do this.

Trade for Corey Hart. Move Bruce to CENTER.

Trade the Farm for Zach Greinke and Joakim Soria and go to the World Series.

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 02:04 AM
I concur.

This team should do this.

Trade for Corey Hart. Move Bruce to CENTER.

Trade the Farm for Zach Greinke and Joakim Soria and go to the World Series.

We're talking real baseball here, not fantasy. Greinke isn't going anywhere. Soria would cost an arm and a leg. So would Hart, and we'd be trading within our own division.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:07 AM
We're talking real baseball here, not fantasy. Greinke isn't going anywhere. Soria would cost an arm and a leg. So would Hart, and we'd be trading within our own division.

Seattle Traded Lee to the Rangers. I think they are in the same division.

Also, KC is shopping Greinke. Tampa Bay is one of the interested teams.

Greinke is the kind of Pitcher this team needs... Young, under contract, and a cornerstone player who the Reds Should over pay to get.

knoonan991
07-26-2010, 02:09 AM
I wonder if people realize that pitchers can't go in there every day and throw zeros every day. Not one pitcher in major league history has done so his whole career. EXPECT pitchers to meltdown every once in a while, it happens. Marmol is one of the most reliable relievers in the majors. If it wasn't for a recent outing where he gave up 4 ER, his ERA would be under 2. The dude has pitched great every year since 2006.

Well if meltdowns are to be expected, I'm perfectly happy keeping what we have now. Is Marmol really worth a Yonder Alonso? It's really not even close IMO. Why make such a panicked decision before knowing the value of Isringhausen or Springer?

Of course every team would like a better bullpen, but it's not like the Reds can try to get whomever they want. It's a very weak market this year since many teams are still left in the playoff hunt.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:13 AM
Well if meltdowns are to be expected, I'm perfectly happy keeping what we have now. Is Marmol really worth a Yonder Alonso? It's really not even close IMO. Why make such a panicked decision before knowing the value of Isringhausen or Springer?

Of course every team would like a better bullpen, but it's not like the Reds can try to get whomever they want. It's a very weak market this year since many teams are still left in the playoff hunt.

Have you not seen the trade for Haren??????

Marmol would NOT cost YONDER ALONSO

GEEEEEEESCH...

Lets get real people!

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 02:16 AM
Seattle Traded Lee to the Rangers. I think they are in the same division.

Also, KC is shopping Greinke. Tampa Bay is one of the interested teams.

Greinke is the kind of Pitcher this team needs... Young, under contract, and a cornerstone player who the Reds Should over pay to get.

KC is not "shopping" Greinke. They have been reported by a NL GM to be "listening to any offer for any player." Does not mean they are actively pursuing a deal with other clubs involving Greinke in the same way we have seen with Lee/Haren/Oswalt talks.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:19 AM
KC is not "shopping" Greinke. They have been reported by a NL GM to be "listening to any offer for any player." Does not mean they are actively pursuing a deal with other clubs involving Greinke in the same way we have seen with Lee/Haren/Oswalt talks.

Dude, go pay the 2.50 a month for the ESPN Insider on the Trades link and go read for yourself.

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 02:22 AM
I don't care what ESPN Insider says it's not happening.

knoonan991
07-26-2010, 02:25 AM
Have you not seen the trade for Haren??????

Marmol would NOT cost YONDER ALONSO

GEEEEEEESCH...

Lets get real people!

I'm only responding to this:



If I'm Walt, I'm on the phone with Moore or Hendry, and I'm asking them what it'd take to get either of them. It'd probably cost us Alonso in either case, and plus some (obviously), but I'd still do it in a heartbeat.

If you can get Marmol for something more reasonable, then it's a completely different conversation.

As I've been saying though, the last thing the Reds need to do is overpay.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:29 AM
I don't care what ESPN Insider says it's not happening.

Ok I give up. I hope we stay pat and see the Cards get Oswalt and beat us by 10 games!

Go Reds for 2nd! :rolleyes:

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 02:34 AM
Because not getting Grienke would mean giving up on this team ... yeah ... not really.

knoonan991
07-26-2010, 02:43 AM
Ok I give up. I hope we stay pat and see the Cards get Oswalt and beat us by 10 games!

Go Reds for 2nd! :rolleyes:

So which of our starters is currently handicapping us from winning?

I still don't understand the supposed starting pitching need.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 02:51 AM
So which of our starters is currently handicapping us from winning?

I still don't understand the supposed starting pitching need.

Well:

I dont think we have a legit number 1.

Harang is not healthy. Arroyo is a work horse but best suited for a 3. Leake could be emerging as an ACE or atleast a solid 2... Wish he would have been pulled after 6 tonight... Volquez is still uncertain but could be an ACE. I think this team needs to pounce on an ACE pitcher.

If I am so wrong, why did Walt almost pull a deal for Lee, only to lose out because Seattle liked Smoak more than Alonso

knoonan991
07-26-2010, 03:13 AM
Well:

I dont think we have a legit number 1.

Harang is not healthy. Arroyo is a work horse but best suited for a 3. Leake could be emerging as an ACE or atleast a solid 2... Wish he would have been pulled after 6 tonight... Volquez is still uncertain but could be an ACE. I think this team needs to pounce on an ACE pitcher.

If I am so wrong, why did Walt almost pull a deal for Lee, only to lose out because Seattle liked Smoak more than Alonso

I heard Walt wouldn't pull the trigger because he would have to give up Travis Wood.

I think Lee is a clear upgrade (although I have no idea who to send down if Lee were a Red), where as an Oswalt or Haren aren't necessarily better than what we have right now. Now that Lee is gone, I think trying to get someone else would just be shortsighted.

I think Arroyo, Volquez, and Cueto would be a solid postseason rotation.

bshall2105
07-26-2010, 03:27 AM
Well:

I dont think we have a legit number 1.

Harang is not healthy. Arroyo is a work horse but best suited for a 3. Leake could be emerging as an ACE or atleast a solid 2... Wish he would have been pulled after 6 tonight... Volquez is still uncertain but could be an ACE. I think this team needs to pounce on an ACE pitcher.

If I am so wrong, why did Walt almost pull a deal for Lee, only to lose out because Seattle liked Smoak more than Alonso

I think it's about time people start looking at Jonny Cueto as an ace. Outside of 2 or 3 bad starts in a row the guy has been amazing all season. He really seems like he's figured it out. I think next year he could contend for the Cy Young if he avoids that rough patch, he certainly has the stuff.

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-26-2010, 03:53 AM
Dude, go pay the 2.50 a month for the ESPN Insider on the Trades link and go read for yourself.

You actually pay 2.50 a month for the ESPN Insider??? HAHAHAHA! Damn they ripped you off. The sooner you figure out that is trash, the better off you'll be.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 05:02 AM
You actually pay 2.50 a month for the ESPN Insider??? HAHAHAHA! Damn they ripped you off. The sooner you figure out that is trash, the better off you'll be.

Dude. I don't pay 2.50 a month for it. I just saw it under that page. But if ya go look at the "Zach Greinke" post. Ken Rosenthal reported on what the Royals have been seeking in return for Zach Greinke.

But damn, I guess people who pay the 2.50 for the ESPN Insider are scumm to you huh? Thats a great thought...

BringDownMugabe
07-26-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm only responding to this:



If you can get Marmol for something more reasonable, then it's a completely different conversation.

As I've been saying though, the last thing the Reds need to do is overpay.

Marmol is a 27 years old and a flame thrower. He still has a couple more years before he can become an unrestricted free agent. Yes, the starting point of conversation for a trade would be Alonso.

And Dan Haren wasn't traded for chump change. The Angels gave up their first round pick last year and another good prospect.

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 09:11 PM
We need a Shortstop.

BringDownMugabe
07-30-2010, 11:41 PM
Bump.

DocRed
07-31-2010, 12:21 AM
Coco leads the league in mythical HR's given up to Pujols though...