PDA

View Full Version : Jayson Werth



RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 02:05 PM
Looks like Philly is looking to move Werth for a "lesser pitcher" if they can't move him in the Oswalt deal.

He is a FA after this year making roughly 7 mill for the year.


Question is, if Philly is after a starter would you swap expiring contacts - Harang for Werth?

Werth line this year

.284/.378/.503

55 run, 31 Doubles, 13 Hrs, 52 RBI's, 7 SBs

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 02:06 PM
Wouldn't they be taking on money, and getting a worse player? I'm pretty sure they're trying to get rid of Werth as a strictly money move.

Joseph
07-25-2010, 02:07 PM
Wouldn't they be taking on money, and getting a worse player? I'm pretty sure they're trying to get rid of Werth as a strictly money move.

Correct, they are trying to shed payroll in order to add Oswalt. They might deal him for a Bailey or a even a Maloney type, but Harang would be moving backwards towards their goal.

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 02:11 PM
I would go Bailey for Werth, possibly. Depending on if we can resign him. I'm pretty content with staying put at the deadline, unless we can add Werth.

edabbs44
07-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Correct, they are trying to shed payroll in order to add Oswalt. They might deal him for a Bailey or a even a Maloney type, but Harang would be moving backwards towards their goal.

I think they are looking for a guy who can pitch in the majors right now. Bailey would not work and Maloney in that park might be death.

cincy09
07-25-2010, 02:23 PM
Didn't they already have Maloney?

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 02:38 PM
Didn't they already have Maloney?


Yes, they sent us Maloney for the Lohse rental.

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Qhy would Philly take Harang or Bailey? Bailey I can see because of his arbitration years.. But Harang? Both of which are on the DL. To get Werth we would have to start at Arroyo perhaps. Philly won't deal talent for an injured player.

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 02:50 PM
Qhy would Philly take Harang or Bailey? Bailey I can see because of his arbitration years.. But Harang? Both of which are on the DL. To get Werth we would have to start at Arroyo perhaps. Philly won't deal talent for an injured player.

They're reportedly looking for a #4 type starter thats cheap. Its a pure money move.

TheNext44
07-25-2010, 03:04 PM
They're reportedly looking for a #4 type starter thats cheap. Its a pure money move.

I'd trade them Maloney for Werth in a heart beat. He's gonna test the market after this season, and has revealed he wants a huge long term contract, so it's a pure rental, but still worth it. He's a huge upgrade over Gomes.

The bonus is that if the Phillies trade him, that gives them a leg up on Oswalt, which means the Cardinals will have less of a chance. That's worh Malony by itself.

11larkin11
07-25-2010, 03:28 PM
Oh Maloney for Werth is obvious, I'm just not sure if they'd want to trade back for him. Lohse for Werth is a good deal for me :)

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Maloney for Werth is the perfect sort of trade for this team. But I doubt Philly would do that. Werth is a type A and would be a good value even if he accepted arb. Unless they can get an impact arm, they're better off just keeping him.

I think he winds up in Tampa.

Brutus
07-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Maloney for Werth is the perfect sort of trade for this team. But I doubt Philly would do that. Werth is a type A and would be a good value even if he accepted arb. Unless they can get an impact arm, they're better off just keeping him.

I think he winds up in Tampa.

Agreed. Frankly, I'm surprised they're that hard-up for payroll flex they're willing to trade him for a back-end starter. I understand the whole Domonic Brown situation, but even so, an asset like that they should be milking for as much as possible.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 03:45 PM
Agreed. Frankly, I'm surprised they're that hard-up for payroll flex they're willing to trade him for a back-end starter. I understand the whole Domonic Brown situation, but even so, an asset like that they should be milking for as much as possible.

If they really want to make use of Brown, send Ibanez to the bench. If they don't get a Werth trade done, I think you'll see that down the stretch.

TheNext44
07-25-2010, 03:48 PM
What the Phillies get for Werth is irrelevant to them at this point. They don't care if it is less than what they would get in the off season if they offered him arbitration. They've concluded that they can't afford him and Oswalt on the same payroll this season. They are trading Werth soley so that they can get Oswalt, who will not be available after the trading deadline. The Reds should take advantage of this situation.

Ghosts of 1990
07-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Looks like Philly is looking to move Werth for a "lesser pitcher" if they can't move him in the Oswalt deal.

He is a FA after this year making roughly 7 mill for the year.


Question is, if Philly is after a starter would you swap expiring contacts - Harang for Werth?

Werth line this year

.284/.378/.503

55 run, 31 Doubles, 13 Hrs, 52 RBI's, 7 SBs

If I'm Philly, what is to gain by taking on Harang? They can get a lot nicer players for Werth, who is a valuable major league corner outfielder. I'd say Harang has either minimal or little value around the league.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:56 PM
If I'm Philly, what is to gain by taking on Harang? They can get a lot nicer players for Werth, who is a valuable major league corner outfielder. I'd say Harang has either minimal or little value around the league.
Harang isn't going to be ready to pitch until, at the earliest, the middle of August. He has 0 value.

KronoRed
07-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Harang has less value then a week old big mac at this point.

Werth would be a great addition, throw him in left field and go.

Brutus
07-25-2010, 05:12 PM
It's getting redundant. Everytime anything of value is discussed on the market, people try so hard to include Harang in a trade as a possible commodity. No one wants Harang for that salary. The Reds will have to give him away if they're to trade him. There are a lot of pitchers out there that will perform similarly to Harang the Phillies could trade for without taking on anywhere near the same salary.

mth123
07-25-2010, 05:47 PM
It's getting redundant. Everytime anything of value is discussed on the market, people try so hard to include Harang in a trade as a possible commodity. No one wants Harang for that salary. The Reds will have to give him away if they're to trade him. There are a lot of pitchers out there that will perform similarly to Harang the Phillies could trade for without taking on anywhere near the same salary.

The point of moving Harang would be to clear salary to make room for something better. I think Philly has the same idea with Werth. No way they'd take back money for him. Maloney would be more realistic, but Philly can probably do a lot better.

Leake, Wood or Cueto might get it done. I wouldn't do that of course.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 05:50 PM
The Reds are going to need Harang to take over for Leake anyway. Let's not pretend like we've got starters to burn.

alloverjr
07-25-2010, 05:55 PM
The point of moving Harang would be to clear salary to make room for something better. I think Philly has the same idea with Werth. No way they'd take back money for him. Maloney would be more realistic, but Philly can probably do a lot better.

Leake, Wood or Cueto might get it done. I wouldn't do that of course.

I should hope it might. The Phils aren't getting anything near that for 2 months of Jason Werth. I'd offer up LeCure/Owings, especially if I'm taking on salary. The Reds need someone at the top of the lineup with a pulse more than middle of the order guys anyway. Rolen not coming back from Anaheim yet hasn't helped.

Brutus
07-25-2010, 05:56 PM
The point of moving Harang would be to clear salary to make room for something better. I think Philly has the same idea with Werth. No way they'd take back money for him. Maloney would be more realistic, but Philly can probably do a lot better.

Leake, Wood or Cueto might get it done. I wouldn't do that of course.

It's not that I don't get why the Reds would move Harang. That's obvious. It's that no one is going to take him, especially for anything of real value.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 05:59 PM
Werth seems like a bit of a schmuck to me. I could see him flame out before his time.

mth123
07-25-2010, 06:31 PM
I should hope it might. The Phils aren't getting anything near that for 2 months of Jason Werth. I'd offer up LeCure/Owings, especially if I'm taking on salary. The Reds need someone at the top of the lineup with a pulse more than middle of the order guys anyway. Rolen not coming back from Anaheim yet hasn't helped.

I agree about not offering that, but I'd love to have Werth and think power is needed if Gomes is the guy being replaced. The Reds probably don't have what it takes to get him w/o overpayng (which was my point). Maloney would be fine, but some team would do better IMO. Maloney by himself is a better package than both Owings and Lecure IMO.

The Rays have been down on Matt Garza and he has already reached his arb years. They also may want to get out from under several years of James Shields who has not been very good this year and whose annual salary isn't so much at this point and would probably save Philly enough to make a run at Oswalt. I could see either going in a Werth deal and TB back-filling with Jeremy Hellickson. The Reds won't be able to match that unless Leake, Wood or Cueto is on the table and obviously they shouldn't do that.

RedsMan3203
07-25-2010, 07:49 PM
When I posted this about Harang, I didn't know he was still going to be out until Mid August.

I would call up to Philly and tell them to take their pick....

Harang, Owings, Bailey, Maloney, LeCure - If they want 2 - Give them 2. Also, would think about throwing DRH in as one of the two.

HokieRed
07-25-2010, 08:12 PM
The Reds are going to need Harang to take over for Leake anyway. Let's not pretend like we've got starters to burn.

Absolutely. The best approach is to continue to depend on the rotation's depth. It's not the greatest rotation at the top but it does have some depth; Harang's an important part of that. There's not a lot of choice, and, IMO, hasn't been since Lee went to the Rangers.

KronoRed
07-25-2010, 08:21 PM
Werth seems like a bit of a schmuck to me. I could see him flame out before his time.

I'll take a schmuck who can ops over .850.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I'll take a schmuck who can ops over .850.

Sure, he's talented. And I won't mind getting him as a rental, but I have no desire to give him a contract.

Brutus
07-25-2010, 08:33 PM
Sure, he's talented. And I won't mind getting him as a rental, but I have no desire to give him a contract.

I also doubt his long-term sustainability. Fortunately, I don't think the Reds would have any intentions of signing him to an extension if he were in their plans.