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View Full Version : So who likes Volquez for Hamilton trade now?



bigred97
07-25-2010, 11:13 PM
Looking like we made a big mistake. Hamilton would have made us World Series contenders.

sabometrics
07-25-2010, 11:20 PM
Let me get my Reds hard-hat on, things are about to get ugly.

bigred97
07-25-2010, 11:21 PM
Josh Hamilton AVG. .353 HR 23 RBI 71 OPS 1.026

GIDP
07-25-2010, 11:23 PM
I think its about time we make this topic bannable. :(

mlh1981
07-25-2010, 11:27 PM
2 years ago: even deal, as both guys were producing.

Last year: both guys were hurt, so still an "even deal."

Now, Hamilton has had a great season, while Volquez has recovered from his injury, but there is still alot of time left to determine the true worth of this trade.

As great as Hamilton has played, I'm going with the pitcher who has the potential to dominate whenever he takes the mound. Great arms like Volquez's are a rare commodity, and I think we will be thankful to have him down the stretch.

ILoveWilly
07-25-2010, 11:31 PM
Give me a break, Volquez was a Cy Young candidate two years ago, is young, and just got back. There was nothing about this trade being a mistake, both sides got something they needed.

ILoveWilly
07-25-2010, 11:35 PM
And BTW, its my understanding Josh Hamilton is a free agent after this season, and with MLB controlling the Rangers, this is the last year he'll even be with them anyway.

GIDP
07-25-2010, 11:36 PM
He isnt

knoonan991
07-25-2010, 11:38 PM
Looking like we made a big mistake. Hamilton would have made us World Series contenders.

Me:thumbup:

I think Volquez will be key for the Reds IF they make the postseason. Sure Hamilton is having an MVP-like year, but our team isn't really offensively shackled.

Arroyo, Volquez, and Cueto as a three man rotation would appear to be pretty formidable for the Reds IMO.

RedsLvr
07-25-2010, 11:41 PM
I still love the trade. Hitting wins games, pitching wins pennants.

ian_madden
07-26-2010, 12:02 AM
Volquez is our ace in the hole.

Krawhitham
07-26-2010, 12:12 AM
Give me a break, Volquez was a Cy Young candidate two years ago, is young, and just got back. There was nothing about this trade being a mistake, both sides got something they needed.


Give me a break, he has had 3 good months his whole career, and they were most likely due to the Roids

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 12:20 AM
Give me a break.

RedsLvr
07-26-2010, 12:20 AM
Give me a break, he has had 3 good months his whole career, and they were most likely due to the Roids

You do realize that the HGH he tested positive for was taken for his injury, right?

sabometrics
07-26-2010, 12:20 AM
Seriously guys lets just not do this again.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 01:38 AM
I personally thought this trade was a joke when it happened. Ate a little Crow when Volquez had that 17 win season but would have still rather had Josh Hamilton instead od Edinson....

You can go look through the History of my posts and see I was against the Trade. Especially when we sent Dunn packing too... I wondered why we didnt keep Hamilton, because it seems to me that Texas would have traded Volquez for anything at that point in his Career...

Wish we had Josh Hamilton.

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-26-2010, 03:56 AM
Knee jerk reaction posts FTW

bshall2105
07-26-2010, 04:02 AM
Knee jerk reaction posts FTW

Once a trade is a couple of years old it gets past the knee jerk reaction phase.

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 05:00 AM
It's always easier to find Outfielders than Starting Pitchers.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 05:03 AM
It's always easier to find Outfielders than Starting Pitchers.

Yeah but in this case. Hamilton is such a Special Player and Edinson has always been "Injury Prone"

muddie
07-26-2010, 05:44 AM
Had Josh stayed with the Reds there would be two guys in the starting line up born in Raleigh, NC. I knew you all were dying to know that...;)

cinreds21
07-26-2010, 05:50 AM
Who's the other, BP?

muddie
07-26-2010, 06:00 AM
Yep.

cinreds21
07-26-2010, 06:09 AM
Thought so, but wasn't sure.

Tampa Red
07-26-2010, 07:15 AM
I dunno..hindsight is 20/20 but I'm not so sure this battle is over just yet. Hamilton has his own injury issues and is one bad decision away from being out of baseball. Drug addiction is a lifelong battle, one that Hamilton will be fighting long after Volquez has completely recovered from T.J. surgery.

I have little doubt that as long as Hamilton plays, he will put up elite numbers. That said, I understand why the Reds traded him. Volquez will likely have to put up H.o.F. type numbers for the Reds to win this trade. I don't expect him to, but I'm still fine with it.

BigJohn
07-26-2010, 08:30 AM
All the talking heads on wlw say we have no place for a bat anyways! LOL!!

TheBigLebowski
07-26-2010, 09:39 AM
Let's spend more time discussing the Kearns/Lopez deal, aka "The Trade."

lidspinner
07-26-2010, 10:23 AM
its a good topic..an oldie, but goodie. Right now this trade appears to favor the Rangers....not even close. But if Edinson takes us into the playoffs then I say this trade is in our favor...If the Rangers make the playoffs and we dont then we lose. If we both make it then I would say that we both win.....you have to give up talent to get talent....

bgwilly31
07-26-2010, 11:04 AM
people here always expressing on the He's still young thing.

Its the biggest cop out in the Redszone excuse book for poor performance. :rolleyes:



I love how Hard everyone here was on Josh hamilton and his drug abuse.

Quotes like

"His body will break in a year you watch and see"

Then details like the redszone is full of doctors on what drugs do to your body.

"He'll relapse in less than a year."

Now since it would dumb to use these quotes everybody here is clinging to their last hope of an excuse for the WORST TRADE IN REDS HISTORY!

"He's still young"

roby
07-26-2010, 11:30 AM
I have wished a million times that the Reds had sent Adam Dunn to Texas instead of Hamilton. I think the Rangers would have taken that deal. Say what you will, Hamilton in this year's Reds lineup would have been awesome. That said, I really like Volquez too.

sivman17
07-26-2010, 11:44 AM
Yeah but in this case. Hamilton is such a Special Player and Edinson has always been "Injury Prone"

Hamilton missed 151 games in the three previous seasons before this year. He's had gastroenteritis, a sprained wrist, and a torn abdominal muscle.

Red in Atl
07-26-2010, 11:52 AM
Hamilton is injury prone, and he's already fallen off the wagon. Add in he has to have our last manager's brother around 24/7 as a baby sitter.

Just cracks me up how the Hamilton lovers are just like chicks with a big diamond..."OOOhhh look how shiny it is!" Get over it people.

It was a good trade for both teams, and we have many years ahead before you could ever truly judge it, so leave it be.

sivman17
07-26-2010, 12:05 PM
The trade happened three years ago and all of a sudden people are bringing this up simply because Hamilton is having a great year and Edinson has been out with Tommy John. I bet these are the same people that were saying it was a good trade after Volquez went 17-6. The fact is, Volquez has gone 22-9 as a Red. He came back from surgery way sooner than expected, and he is a great addition to the rotation. People were clamoring for Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt or another big arm. Well, the return of Volquez is the same as acquiring an ace. He is great for this team.

And like Red said above, he needed a babysitter. There were also rumors that there was tension between the other players and Hamilton because the Reds were bending over backwards for him. When he was traded to the Rangers they were a bad team and they didn't care what had to be done for Hamilton. They were so excited to have a player like him that they would put up with all this extra babysitting crap.

You can't have a divided locker room and players holding contempt for another player. I'm sure there is a lot behind the scenes that didn't go public.

sivman17
07-26-2010, 12:10 PM
I have wished a million times that the Reds had sent Adam Dunn to Texas instead of Hamilton. I think the Rangers would have taken that deal. Say what you will, Hamilton in this year's Reds lineup would have been awesome. That said, I really like Volquez too.

They would not have taken Adam Dunn. The one guy that the Reds wanted from the Rangers was Volquez. The one guy that the Rangers wanted was Hamilton. There were countless offers from both sides trying to obtain the desired player without having to give up their prized possession. The Reds really wanted Volquez and made many offers that did not include Hamilton. Likewise, the Rangers made many offers for Hamilton that did not include Volquez.

They realized the trade that would have to happen, and that's how we got Volquez for Hamilton. Why the f would they want Adam Dunn?

Biff Pocoroba
07-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Sometimes a manager can make the right call but it doesn't pan out - because his pinch hitter rockets one right at the center fielder or a loogie leaves a fastball up.

Based on the situation at the time, I don't blame the Reds at all for making that trade. And putting aside the injuries, it was working. Volquez showed he belongs in the majors. And Hamilton's history of injuries and substance abuse would have made any GM worry at the time.

The front office made a calculated gamble based on good scouting reports. As with so many things, the end result is sort of out of their hands.

Caveman Techie
07-26-2010, 02:49 PM
Sorry, but I'll still make that trade. I loved watching Josh Hamilton play, but I'll take the pitching over the hitting any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

sivman17
07-26-2010, 03:22 PM
and twice on Sunday.

haha.. this year i might take hitting over pitching on sundays

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 04:06 PM
Yeah but in this case. Hamilton is such a Special Player and Edinson has always been "Injury Prone"

The REDS lead the league in RUNS.

Leading the league in runs doesn't win Championships.

Leading the league in pitching does.

The reason the San Francisco Giants have won 16 of their last 20 is because they have outstanding starting pitching....the best in the National League.

The REDS improve themselves much more with Volquez than they improve themselves with Hamilton.

Rijo's Ghost
07-26-2010, 04:12 PM
The REDS lead the league in RUNS.

Leading the league in runs doesn't win Championships.

Leading the league in pitching does.

The reason the San Francisco Giants have won 16 of their last 20 is because they have outstanding starting pitching....the best in the National League.

The REDS improve themselves much more with Volquez than they improve themselves with Hamilton.

The Padres and Cardinals pitch better than the Giants.

bgwilly31
07-26-2010, 04:22 PM
There are so many stubborn people on these board.

They just cant admit and eat crow when they were wrong.

Ive cried out loud when the trade was going down.

I cried out loud when volquez had a great record but the reds still didnt have a winning record.

And im still saying it now. This will go down as the worst trade in reds history.

The day we gave up one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Johs hamilton is a flipping phenom type player.

I think the reds knew that. And they decided to part ways while he was cheap and could get them the best potential in pitching.

All about the money and the reds being cheap asses was what this trade was all about.

roby
07-26-2010, 04:36 PM
They would not have taken Adam Dunn. The one guy that the Reds wanted from the Rangers was Volquez. The one guy that the Rangers wanted was Hamilton. There were countless offers from both sides trying to obtain the desired player without having to give up their prized possession. The Reds really wanted Volquez and made many offers that did not include Hamilton. Likewise, the Rangers made many offers for Hamilton that did not include Volquez.

They realized the trade that would have to happen, and that's how we got Volquez for Hamilton. Why the f would they want Adam Dunn?

And you know all this how?

roby
07-26-2010, 04:39 PM
And im still saying it now. This will go down as the worst trade in reds history.

The day we gave up one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Johs hamilton is a flipping phenom type player.

.

No, the WORST trade in Reds history was Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, Jack Balschun and Dick Simpson. You must be a young fan.

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 04:51 PM
The Padres and Cardinals pitch better than the Giants.


Not their starters.

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 04:53 PM
The order of "best starters in the National League" are:

Giants
Cardinals
Phillies
Padres
Braves
Marlins

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 04:55 PM
There are so many stubborn people on these board.

They just cant admit and eat crow when they were wrong.

Ive cried out loud when the trade was going down.

I cried out loud when volquez had a great record but the reds still didnt have a winning record.

And im still saying it now. This will go down as the worst trade in reds history.

The day we gave up one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

Johs hamilton is a flipping phenom type player.

I think the reds knew that. And they decided to part ways while he was cheap and could get them the best potential in pitching.

All about the money and the reds being cheap asses was what this trade was all about.

But, the problem with your thinking is that you're wrong.

Krawhitham
07-26-2010, 05:03 PM
You do realize that the HGH he tested positive for was taken for his injury, right?

You do realize that he did not test positive for HGH, right?

Work on your facts a little more and try again

Krawhitham
07-26-2010, 05:07 PM
Hamilton is injury prone, and he's already fallen off the wagon. Add in he has to have our last manager's brother around 24/7 as a baby sitter.

Just cracks me up how the Hamilton lovers are just like chicks with a big diamond..."OOOhhh look how shiny it is!" Get over it people.

It was a good trade for both teams, and we have many years ahead before you could ever truly judge it, so leave it be.

I can not stand Hamilton but he is the better player then and now. The fact he needs a baby sitter is crazy, but maybe if Volquez had one he would not have used Steroids

And yes Josh is injury prone but he is also HR & RBI prone

sivman17
07-26-2010, 05:10 PM
And you know all this how?

Cause I read about it when it happened.

sivman17
07-26-2010, 05:17 PM
maybe if Volquez had one he would not have used Steroids

He did not test positive for steroids.

Red in Atl
07-26-2010, 06:05 PM
I can not stand Hamilton but he is the better player then and now. The fact he needs a baby sitter is crazy, but maybe if Volquez had one he would not have used Steroids

And yes Josh is injury prone but he is also HR & RBI prone

Dude, I'm not the one saying he needs a babysitter. That would be the teams he plays on. I don't know if Narron is still doing it, but he was here, and he went with Hamilton to Texas.

And it's been established that Volquez used the PED when he was trying to get his wife pregnant, not while he was playing. Did he make a mistake, yes! Did he pay the price, yes! So that means nothing now.

Is Josh a good player, yes! Is he great, well we'll know that in 15 years. I believe that his addictions could cause him to relapse at some point, which he has already done (and hopefully won't again), and continue to be injury prone.

Volquez is TOR material. Something we didn't have at the time of the trade. He got hurt, worked his butt off, came back early, will have his ups and downs this year, but he will probably be an even better pitcher down the road.

I make this trade everyday of the week...forever!

CWRed
07-26-2010, 06:39 PM
Sigh.....

bgwilly31
07-26-2010, 06:45 PM
Is Josh a good player, yes! Is he great, well we'll know that in 15 years. I believe that his addictions could cause him to relapse at some point, which he has already done (and hopefully won't again), and continue to be injury prone.




Ok im tired of this getting spread around (Started by stubborn people on this board trying to defend their original beliefs)

HAMILTON DID NOT RELAPSE!

He was photographed at a bar with a beer in his hand and hot chicks surrounding him.

Ohhh Snap! If you call that a relapse from HARD core drugs like he WAS doing. You must be crazy and out of your mind.

Your at a bar, your a super stud baseball player, you have a beer and girls want to be around you. It happens.

it is not relapsing.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rijo's Ghost
07-26-2010, 06:48 PM
The order of "best starters in the National League" are:

Giants
Cardinals
Phillies
Padres
Braves
Marlins
Nope.

St. Louis
San Francisco
San Diego
Florida
Atlanta

Team ERA isn't that hard to find.

Rijo's Ghost
07-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Ok im tired of this getting spread around (Started by stubborn people on this board trying to defend their original beliefs)

HAMILTON DID NOT RELAPSE!

He was photographed at a bar with a beer in his hand and hot chicks surrounding him.

Ohhh Snap! If you call that a relapse from HARD core drugs like he WAS doing. You must be crazy and out of your mind.

Your at a bar, your a super stud baseball player, you have a beer and girls want to be around you. It happens.

it is not relapsing.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sure...

http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/custom_1249711403362_Josh-Hamilton-009.jpg

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/jh2.jpg

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/Josh-Hamilton-011.jpg


But yeah, just a beer in his hand and a hot chick nearby...

Red in Atl
07-26-2010, 07:33 PM
Thanks Rijo. This little night out got him in a lot of trouble, and he even admitted that he relapsed. On top of that, I'm sure his wife loves these photos...oooh the last one is one for her wallet!

None of this changes the fact that the trade had to be made. It was the only way to get a TOR starter three years ago.

As much as I loved watching him hit, Josh was a major distraction to the team and plenty was said as such at the time. It doesn't mean he isn't a great hitter or player. It just means that he didn't fit here.

Good luck to him, hope he stays clean.

GIDP
07-26-2010, 07:34 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090808&content_id=6316112&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

xavr1
07-26-2010, 08:21 PM
Once in a lifetime talent. And the potential is being fully realized right now. I admit that I struggle with my thoughts on this trade everytime we get shut out.

AintlifeGrande
07-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Yep,just a beer.And his wife who has stuck with him through the hard times doesn't mind the females surrounding him.

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Yep,just a beer.And his wife who has stuck with him through the hard times doesn't mind the females surrounding him.

She minds. She just can't do anything about it.

Dale4Saul2Red0
07-26-2010, 08:52 PM
So where are the hot chicks?

Kingspoint
07-26-2010, 09:10 PM
So where are the hot chicks?

That's the first thing I thought of.

CWRed
07-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Stay classy Rijo's ghost...:thumbdown

Rijo's Ghost
07-26-2010, 10:41 PM
Stay classy Rijo's ghost...:thumbdown

Sorry Josh.

bgwilly31
07-26-2010, 11:37 PM
That's the first thing I thought of.



is it now.

typical hater style post.

I dont see crack dust on his nose. I dont see needles. I see some young people having drinks and having fun with each other. Not relapsing.

Sham
07-26-2010, 11:49 PM
is it now.

typical hater style post.

I dont see crack dust on his nose. I dont see needles. I see some young people having drinks and having fun with each other. Not relapsing.

You snort crack?

Rijo's Ghost
07-26-2010, 11:52 PM
is it now.

typical hater style post.

I dont see crack dust on his nose. I dont see needles. I see some young people having drinks and having fun with each other. Not relapsing.

When an admitted alcoholic drinks, even a sip, that is what you call a relapse. Hamilton himself admitted that he relapsed. Just give it up.

Hondo
07-26-2010, 11:52 PM
Can we get back to the Point?

bgwilly31
07-26-2010, 11:56 PM
he relapsed in his head. with hi wife and to himself.

In our fans head the only thing we should care about is the real stuff. Crack, needles etc etc. That would be a relapse.

Sham
07-27-2010, 12:00 AM
Well for Josh's sake I'm glad he didn't snort any of that crack stuff, like they do in Hamilton apparently.

Kingspoint
07-27-2010, 12:17 AM
is it now.

typical hater style post.

I dont see crack dust on his nose. I dont see needles. I see some young people having drinks and having fun with each other. Not relapsing.

Those chicks were skanky.

Kingspoint
07-27-2010, 12:18 AM
Can we get back to the Point?

I'll take Volquez any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

bgwilly31
07-27-2010, 01:08 PM
Those chicks were skanky.

So is pamela Anderson. But im sure you would kick her out of bed too, right stud.

Give it up. Your statement was fueled by hatorade.

Caveman Techie
07-27-2010, 02:36 PM
Give it up. Your statement was fueled by hatorade.

Your's are clouded by the fog of hero worship. In you eyes Josh can do no wrong.

Trace's Daddy
07-27-2010, 02:50 PM
Back then we needed pitching - really bad. So yeah, I'd do that trade again. Pitching is most important. Having both would have been better. There was an uncertainty of how long Josh would have stayed straight and layed off the hard stuff, so sell high (no pun intended).

PTjvs
07-27-2010, 02:56 PM
I'll take Volquez any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I'll take the guy performing like an MVP now over the guy with one very good full season, but now coming off major injury.

That doesn't mean I thought it was a bad trade at the time. Hamilton is way overperforming my expectations, and Volquez got hurt. C'est la vie.

jvs

bounty37h
07-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Sure...

http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/custom_1249711403362_Josh-Hamilton-009.jpg

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/jh2.jpg

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2009/08/Josh-Hamilton-011.jpg


But yeah, just a beer in his hand and a hot chick nearby...

Never mind, it doesnt matter

Biff Pocoroba
07-27-2010, 05:01 PM
but bounty, he was wearing a Tar Heels cap. Should that not count for something?

Class of 1990, myself, by the way

Jefferson24
07-27-2010, 10:03 PM
at least we got DRH!

bounty37h
07-28-2010, 10:56 AM
but bounty, he was wearing a Tar Heels cap. Should that not count for something?

Class of 1990, myself, by the way

Of course!!! Your class of 90, ever come back to the Hill?