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View Full Version : Reds at the deadline -- what should they do?



Kc61
07-26-2010, 06:41 PM
A few days away, what are the real needs? Should the Reds trade major prospects? If you were GM, how would you handle the trade deadline this year?

I think the Reds need to add offense in the outfield and lefty bullpen depth. These are the areas I see.

I would trade major prospects for a real outfielder, somebody like Markakis perhaps. Alonso, Frazier, Francisco, Joseph, maybe Heisey, all would be possibilities for such a trade.

Reds should try to get Scott Downs or another good veteran lefty reliever. I think the Reds lack depth in this area and Bray is just off injury and may not be ready to be effective this year.

Views?

Will M
07-26-2010, 07:05 PM
Oswalt doesn't seem to want to come to the Reds. Greinke likely isn't available. Other available starters don't seem much of an upgrade over what we have already.

I like the Scott Downs idea if he comes cheaply. He could be a trade & then extend guy.

I agree that a real thumper in a corner OF slot would help a lot. Lets say we could package Heisey & some prospects for a guy who could hit 5th (4th when Rolen is out). then Bruce & Gomes could share the other OF spot. a youngish guy would be fantastic. Werth would be just fine with me but as a rental i wouldn't overpay (ie no top prospects going to Philadelphia).

Thats about it. Guys are certainly available for a fairly low cost in prospects. Teams want to move payroll. The problem is that the Reds, despite a low payroll, probably don't want to add much more.

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2010, 07:16 PM
Not sure what it would take to land them, but Jose Bautista and Scott Downs would look good in a Reds uniform.

RedLegSuperStar
07-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I think we will see and hear some names we have yet to hear get moved or at least rumored. May not be with the Reds.. but they could swipe in and nab a player.

I too like the Scott Downs idea.. as long as it doesn't cost a lot.

I still would like to see a Hank Blalock or Jermaine Dye signing to bolster this bench.

A idea I might throw out there is Harang and Prospects to Toronto for Vernon Wells, Scott Downs, and Cash. Throw it at me... i'm prepared.

RedEye
07-26-2010, 07:25 PM
Not sure what it would take to land them, but Jose Bautista and Scott Downs would look good in a Reds uniform.

I'm not buying the Bautista hype right now. Strikes me as the ultimate buy-high candidate. Not good IMO.

RED VAN HOT
07-26-2010, 07:41 PM
I like the theme of picking up veteran players who are relatively inexpensive ex-Cardinals and have been through pennant races. I suspect that Edmonds could be added at a price WJ would be willing to pay. Edmonds seems like an intense guy who has something to prove. For the short run, this might be exactly what the Reds need.

On the Houston broadcast the other day Carmona was mentioned as someone that interested the Reds because of his favorable contract. I checked and there are a series of club options that mitigate club risk for player injury. On the other hand, if he stays healthy, exercising the options would be a bargain. The problem is that he is just as valuable to Cleveland for the same reasons. Their asking would be high, but it is worth exploring.

PuffyPig
07-26-2010, 07:41 PM
A idea I might throw out there is Harang and Prospects to Toronto for Vernon Wells, Scott Downs, and Cash. Throw it at me... i'm prepared.

Wells is owed $86M over the next 4 years (not including this one).

Nuff said.

Will M
07-26-2010, 07:52 PM
OK. Here is what they should do:

1. Trade Heisey, Alonso & one other top minor leaguer to the Indians for Shin-Soo Choo. The only guys I wouldn't include in this deal are Chapman & Mes.
Heck I would even give them Homer Bailey. Why would Cleveland do this? Save some cash as Choo is entering his arb years. He is a free agent after 2013 & Boras is his agent. The Indians might get more now than by waiting & they certainly aren't going to be winning anything soon.
Choo bats in the heart of the order. Likely 5th behind Votto & Rolen.
Gomes & Bruce share the other OF corner.

2. trade a couple of lesser prospects for Scott Downs.

3. Blow past St Louis into the playoffs!

cincrazy
07-26-2010, 07:53 PM
OK. Here is what they should do:

1. Trade Heisey, Alonso & one other top minor leaguer to the Indians for Shin-Soo Choo. The only guys I wouldn't include in this deal are Chapman & Mes.
Heck I would even give them Homer Bailey. Why would Cleveland do this? Save some cash as Choo is entering his arb years. He is a free agent after 2013 & Boras is his agent. The Indians might get more now than by waiting & they certainly aren't going to be winning anything soon.
Choo bats in the heart of the order. Likely 5th behind Votto & Rolen.
Gomes & Bruce share the other OF corner.

2. trade a couple of lesser prospects for Scott Downs.

3. Blow past St Louis into the playoffs!

Something to keep in mind: Choo still has two years of military service in South Korea to serve. Makes acquiring him really tricky. No way I give up Heisey and Alonso, or anyone of substance in our system, for a guy who may miss two years rather soon.

schroomytunes
07-26-2010, 07:53 PM
I'm on the fence right now but I think we need to make a push for the division, and if it means some prospects then we gotta do it. So here's my proposal.

Reds trade: Yonder Alonzo, Chris Valaika, Micah Owings and Sam LeCure

Cleveland trades: Fausto Carmona and Austin Kearns

Reds rotation:
1)Cueto
2)Arroyo
3)Carmona
4)Leake
5)Wood/Volquez

Harang becomes LR or swing man to spell Leake's innings.

cincrazy
07-26-2010, 07:57 PM
I'm on the fence right now but I think we need to make a push for the division, and if it means some prospects then we gotta do it. So here's my proposal.

Reds trade: Yonder Alonzo, Chris Valaika, Micah Owings and Sam LeCure

Cleveland trades: Fausto Carmona and Austin Kearns

Reds rotation:
1)Cueto
2)Arroyo
3)Carmona
4)Leake
5)Wood/Volquez

Harang becomes LR or swing man to spell Leake's innings.

Although I would like to see the Reds make a run at Carmona (not so hot on Kearns, however), I wouldn't give up Alonso. Only way I give up an Alonso if for a Haren or Lee, and with both of those guys now off the market, I don't consider moving him. I don't think Carmona is enough of a difference-maker to justify giving up Alonso.

Benihana
07-26-2010, 08:47 PM
I think that as another poster pointed out, Oswalt and Greinke are the only starters out there that would represent a true upgrade, and I don't think Greinke is going anywhere.

I'm not enamored with Scott Downs or Jose Bautista, especially given their current asking price. That said, I wouldn't be upset with Downs as long as we don't overpay- I HATE overpaying for relievers.

I still try to work something out with Houston. The money might make it tough, especially if Oswalt insists on his option being picked up, but the Reds definitely have the prospects to make it happen. More importantly, the Reds cannot afford to see Oswalt in a Cardinals uniform.

Alonso, Mesoraco, Frazier and Harang for Oswalt, Lindstrom, and Castro.

Astros get three top prospects, including two corner infield prospects and a catcher- three things they have reportedly been asking for from other teams. The Reds get their #1 starter, their relief help and a ML-ready catcher to complement Hanigan.

Harang helps partially offset the additional money owed to Oswalt, although the Reds could offer Cordero instead of Harang if the Astros prefer.

Regardless whether they do a deal like Houston, there are two things that I really want to see by Sunday:

1. The Reds make SOME kind of move that strengthens the team for the playoff push.
2. The Cardinals do NOT get Roy Oswalt.

edabbs44
07-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Most probable guess would be bullpen help. Downs would be great, but I could see the Yanks ending up with him.

Carmona would be very interesting since he isn't just a rental. Would give Cincy a ton of flexibility this offseason.

kaldaniels
07-26-2010, 09:22 PM
Something to keep in mind: Choo still has two years of military service in South Korea to serve. Makes acquiring him really tricky. No way I give up Heisey and Alonso, or anyone of substance in our system, for a guy who may miss two years rather soon.

Say what? I'm not doubting you but who is going to deport Choo back to South Korea?

Will M
07-26-2010, 09:34 PM
I think that as another poster pointed out, Oswalt and Greinke are the only starters out there that would represent a true upgrade, and I don't think Greinke is going anywhere.

I'm not enamored with Scott Downs or Jose Bautista, especially given their current asking price. That said, I wouldn't be upset with Downs as long as we don't overpay- I HATE overpaying for relievers.

I still try to work something out with Houston. The money might make it tough, especially if Oswalt insists on his option being picked up, but the Reds definitely have the prospects to make it happen. More importantly, the Reds cannot afford to see Oswalt in a Cardinals uniform.

Alonso, Mesoraco, Frazier and Harang for Oswalt, Lindstrom, and Castro.

Astros get three top prospects, including two corner infield prospects and a catcher- three things they have reportedly been asking for from other teams. The Reds get their #1 starter, their relief help and a ML-ready catcher to complement Hanigan.

Harang helps partially offset the additional money owed to Oswalt, although the Reds could offer Cordero instead of Harang if the Astros prefer.

Regardless whether they do a deal like Houston, there are two things that I really want to see by Sunday:

1. The Reds make SOME kind of move that strengthens the team for the playoff push.
2. The Cardinals do NOT get Roy Oswalt.

The idea of moving CORDERO as the salary traded for Oswalt is a great great idea. in fact i think its the greatest idea i have heard since my Choo trade. :D
The Reds would give up Mes but upgrade the rotation big time. Basically replace one of our many ok-good starters with a TOR arm. Even picking up his 2012 option becomes more palatable because we dump Cordero's terrible 2011 deal. this is a better deal than moving Harang as we save Cordero's 2011 salary vs just saving Harang's 2011 buyout.

#1 Alonso, Mesoraco, Frazier and Cordero for Oswalt, Lindstrom, and Castro.
#2 Get Downs. Use the closer by commitee between Rhodes, Downs, Lindstrom & Masset.
#3 the Reds could still add a power bat like Choo or Werth.

lollipopcurve
07-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Regardless whether they do a deal like Houston, there are two things that I really want to see by Sunday:

1. The Reds make SOME kind of move that strengthens the team for the playoff push.
2. The Cardinals do NOT get Roy Oswalt.

This is where I am too. Ultimately, they need to add a quality stick, but it could be a deal that involves a big contract, and that is a lot easier to pull off in the offseason.

HokieRed
07-26-2010, 09:42 PM
2 points.
1. I can't see the Astros being the slightest bit inclined to take the salaries of Harang or Cordero irrespective of what else we offer them.
2. Can a bit better outfield productivity be gotten by replacing Stubbs with Heisey? (And I'm not a Stubbs basher, but have been a supporter, but also one who thinks this issue is not settled)

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2010, 09:45 PM
It's becoming more and more evident the Reds need another bat or two.

Will M
07-26-2010, 09:49 PM
2 points.
1. I can't see the Astros being the slightest bit inclined to take the salaries of Harang or Cordero irrespective of what else we offer them.
2. Can a bit better outfield productivity be gotten by replacing Stubbs with Heisey? (And I'm not a Stubbs basher, but have been a supporter, but also one who thinks this issue is not settled)

The Astros owe Oswalt ~$6M for 2010 & $16M for 2011 & his 2012 buyout. while they would love to trade his for 3 can't miss prospects his trade value is likely more like Haren's. in fact if he insists on his 2012 option being picked up as part of a trade then IMO he has NEGATIVE trade value. just too much salary to pay in today's market. now if the Reds send back honest to goodness real prospects they can either ask the Astros to kick in cash or take a salary back in return.

HokieRed
07-26-2010, 10:00 PM
The Astros owe Oswalt ~$6M for 2010 & $16M for 2011 & his 2012 buyout. while they would love to trade his for 3 can't miss prospects his trade value is likely more like Haren's. in fact if he insists on his 2012 option being picked up as part of a trade then IMO he has NEGATIVE trade value. just too much salary to pay in today's market. now if the Reds send back honest to goodness real prospects they can either ask the Astros to kick in cash or take a salary back in return.


I've no doubt they'd be interested in honest to god prospects but not in Harang or Cordero. I think if you ask them to take salary back, they tell you you don't want him enough. They might take Harang since all they'd owe him is the rest of this year's salary and his buyout, but Cordero seems way too good to be true.

Big Klu
07-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Say what? I'm not doubting you but who is going to deport Choo back to South Korea?

Choo is a citizen of South Korea. All male citizens have to perform mandatory military service by age 30 unless given a deferral by the Korean government, which they have not yet done for Choo.

alloverjr
07-26-2010, 10:27 PM
I think at this point the Reds should stand pat. Their offense has not been much since Mayand they've effectively been a .500 team even with very good pitching. Not one player that the Reds could afford that will help. See how the season plays out and make changes as necessary in the offseason.

HokieRed
07-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Try Heisey in CF, Juan Francisco in LF, and use Gomes in RF if Bruce can't start to pick it up. May not help at all, but we have to try to get more offense.

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2010, 10:47 PM
Try Heisey in CF, Juan Francisco in LF, and use Gomes in RF if Bruce can't start to pick it up. May not help at all, but we have to try to get more offense.

Francisco in LF, Heisey in CF, and Gomes in RF would probably be the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball.

And why is Gomes getting a free pass? Bruce is having his first bad month of the season. Gomes has been bad in three of the four months. And at least Jay Bruce contributes defensively when he's struggling at the plate.

toledodan
07-26-2010, 10:48 PM
Francisco in LF, Heisey in CF, and Gomes in RF would probably be the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball.

i agree

CrackerJack
07-26-2010, 11:01 PM
They certainly need hitters who can bounce back from slumps faster than what they have, or who can show more consistent power. The lack of hitting seems contagious.

I sense there's a hesitancy to "mess up the chemistry" and change anyone's role based on performance at this point, with only Stubbs probably in a position to be benched more often.

It's worth adding a bat if he's going to help them in the future as well, they are going to need it regardless.

HokieRed
07-26-2010, 11:34 PM
Francisco in LF, Heisey in CF, and Gomes in RF would probably be the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball.

And why is Gomes getting a free pass? Bruce is having his first bad month of the season. Gomes has been bad in three of the four months. And at least Jay Bruce contributes defensively when he's struggling at the plate.

I didn't give Gomes a free pass. I'd much prefer to keep Bruce in right but he's got to start producing something. Barely over .700 in CF and around .750 in RF is not going to get it, especially with a sub .700 SS. And right now Francisco's the best candidate from Louisville to add something to this dead offense.

kaldaniels
07-27-2010, 12:02 AM
Choo is a citizen of South Korea. All male citizens have to perform mandatory military service by age 30 unless given a deferral by the Korean government, which they have not yet done for Choo.

Again not doubting you, just curious. Would he get sent back? Does he want to go back? I mean A. Chapman jumped ship from Cuba and no one is worried about him.

Marc D
07-27-2010, 12:24 AM
I don't want to see them do anything dumb and overpay because there just isn't that much out there right now but a prospect and some money for a Jayson Werth rental sure sounds good right now.

Plus Plus
07-27-2010, 12:25 AM
Again not doubting you, just curious. Would he get sent back? Does he want to go back? I mean A. Chapman jumped ship from Cuba and no one is worried about him.

Comparing Cuba to South Korea is like comparing apples to vacuum cleaners.

kaldaniels
07-27-2010, 12:35 AM
Comparing Cuba to South Korea is like comparing apples to vacuum cleaners.

Oh no doubt. But I'm thinking no one is going to deport Chapman...is anyone going to deport Choo?

Edit - Why must people keep taking the strawman route instead of answering the simple question at hand?

CTA513
07-27-2010, 12:44 AM
Francisco in LF, Heisey in CF, and Gomes in RF would probably be the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball.

And why is Gomes getting a free pass? Bruce is having his first bad month of the season. Gomes has been bad in three of the four months. And at least Jay Bruce contributes defensively when he's struggling at the plate.

The defense would be crappy and I don't see the offense those guys would provide being good enough to try it.

reds44
07-27-2010, 12:53 AM
The Reds need to find a high contact/high OBP guy to add into the lineup. We are entirely too slugging reliant, and it causes our offense to have big peaks and big valleys.

It's probably going to have to be an outfielder, meaning Gomes and sometimes Stubbs vs RHP and Bruce vs LHP lose playing time.

I don't see Jose Bautista helping out, he's just a continuation of what we have already.

This team is GREAT at going 1st to 3rd, but for whatever reason Stubbs has stopped attempting to steal bases so we're sitting aroudn waiting for homers.

I know this isn't going to be popular, but I think the best for this team right now is Scott Podsednik. He's hitting .308/.352 with 30 steals. He'd fill leadoff perfectly, and you can give Gomes starts in LF against LHP still. He's also not going to cost a lot.

Werth would be a good target, but the Phils are looking for pitching help right now, and we're not in the position to give that up.

If you could add some AVG/OBP and one more reliable reliever, I think I'd be willing to roll with what we have. I don't see us being a player for SP.

corkedbat
07-27-2010, 12:56 AM
I still think the two keys to the rest of the season is Rolen staying healthy and Bruce going on a hot streak with a power surge.

Even though his numbers aren't sterling of late, I'd still make a run at Ty Wiggington for insurance. Josh Willingham and Cody Ross would be two more names I'd look at. Werth would be at the top of my list but don' see a good fit between the Reds and Phils.

top6
07-27-2010, 01:01 AM
Oh no doubt. But I'm thinking no one is going to deport Chapman...is anyone going to deport Choo?

Edit - Why must people keep taking the strawman route instead of answering the simple question at hand?

In theory, Choo could be charged in South Korea (for failing to comply with the service requirement), and then the U.S. would extradite him there. I am not going to research it, but I am pretty confident that we have a full extradition treaty with South Korea -- they are one of our closest allies.

FWIW, we expect the same treatment from other countries. I vaguely recall some mild controversy about military personnel who went to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq, and they were extradited back here.

Chapman/Cuba is a different situation. Once Cuban defectors get here, we do not send them back, because we have decided that Cuba - unlike South Korea - is a dictatorship, violates human rights, etc. etc. Of course, we actively try to keep Cubans from getting here, but once they are here we will not send them back. My guess is that would be the same policy that would apply to someone from North Korea, but not South Korea, which again is a functional democracy and one of our closest allies in the world.

All that being said, I'd be stunned if there wasn't some deal that could be worked out in Choo's case - such as deferring his service time until after his major league career is over, or allowing him to serve over several off-seasons.

kaldaniels
07-27-2010, 01:17 AM
In theory, Choo could be charged in South Korea (for failing to comply with the service requirement), and then the U.S. would extradite him there. I am not going to research it, but I am pretty confident that we have a full extradition treaty with South Korea -- they are one of our closest allies.

FWIW, we expect the same treatment from other countries. I vaguely recall some mild controversy about military personnel who went to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq, and they were extradited back here.

Chapman/Cuba is a different situation. Once Cuban defectors get here, we do not send them back, because we have decided that Cuba - unlike South Korea - is a dictatorship, violates human rights, etc. etc. Of course, we actively try to keep Cubans from getting here, but once they are here we will not send them back. My guess is that would be the same policy that would apply to someone from North Korea, but not South Korea, which again is a functional democracy and one of our closest allies in the world.

All that being said, I'd be stunned if there wasn't some deal that could be worked out in Choo's case - such as deferring his service time until after his major league career is over, or allowing him to serve over several off-seasons.

:thumbup:

dman
07-27-2010, 09:53 AM
I like the theme of picking up veteran players who are relatively inexpensive ex-Cardinals and have been through pennant races. I suspect that Edmonds could be added at a price WJ would be willing to pay. Edmonds seems like an intense guy who has something to prove. For the short run, this might be exactly what the Reds need.

On the Houston broadcast the other day Carmona was mentioned as someone that interested the Reds because of his favorable contract. I checked and there are a series of club options that mitigate club risk for player injury. On the other hand, if he stays healthy, exercising the options would be a bargain. The problem is that he is just as valuable to Cleveland for the same reasons. Their asking would be high, but it is worth exploring.

It's been a while since I've posted around here, but I really like your idea of Jim Edmonds, especially since one of our primary left hand bats (Jay Bruce) is pretty much non-existent as of late. Plus Edmonds, as he proved to us last night, is a clutch player.

pahster
07-27-2010, 10:03 AM
In theory, Choo could be charged in South Korea (for failing to comply with the service requirement), and then the U.S. would extradite him there. I am not going to research it, but I am pretty confident that we have a full extradition treaty with South Korea -- they are one of our closest allies.

FWIW, we expect the same treatment from other countries. I vaguely recall some mild controversy about military personnel who went to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq, and they were extradited back here.

Chapman/Cuba is a different situation. Once Cuban defectors get here, we do not send them back, because we have decided that Cuba - unlike South Korea - is a dictatorship, violates human rights, etc. etc. Of course, we actively try to keep Cubans from getting here, but once they are here we will not send them back. My guess is that would be the same policy that would apply to someone from North Korea, but not South Korea, which again is a functional democracy and one of our closest allies in the world.

All that being said, I'd be stunned if there wasn't some deal that could be worked out in Choo's case - such as deferring his service time until after his major league career is over, or allowing him to serve over several off-seasons.

Nope, this only applies to Cuba. As soon as a Cuban sets foot on U.S. soil, they're an American citizen.

Ghosts of 1990
07-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Try Heisey in CF, Juan Francisco in LF, and use Gomes in RF if Bruce can't start to pick it up. May not help at all, but we have to try to get more offense.

As streaky as Bruce has been... I'd have to vote against playing Francisco in left. He's not on the roster right now because his bat isn't seasoned enough. I doubt he's ready for a pennant race.

top6
07-27-2010, 10:14 AM
Nope, this only applies to Cuba. As soon as a Cuban sets foot on U.S. soil, they're an American citizen.

Yeah, I didn't want to get too far into it. Not sure what would happen if someone actually defected from North Korea, though. And then there are political asylum claims.

bucksfan2
07-27-2010, 10:17 AM
I am starting to think that the Reds are in need of a Jason Wearth type player. Guy who comes over on a one year deal. Will odd offensive production to the RF spot, and won't cost a boat load in terms of prospects.

Chip R
07-27-2010, 10:21 AM
From what I've read, if S. Korea wins a gold medal in the 2010 Asian games, he gets an exemption.

MattyHo4Life
07-27-2010, 10:21 AM
It's been a while since I've posted around here, but I really like your idea of Jim Edmonds, especially since one of our primary left hand bats (Jay Bruce) is pretty much non-existent as of late. Plus Edmonds, as he proved to us last night, is a clutch player.

I agree... on Edmonds. He can still flash that glove as good as anybody.

Nasty_Boy
07-27-2010, 10:30 AM
I'm pretty sure that Choo like many foreign players returns home in the offseason... I think most of these players are on work visa's or something like that. So I guess that South Korea could refuse to let Choo return to the states.

redsmetz
07-27-2010, 10:38 AM
Oh no doubt. But I'm thinking no one is going to deport Chapman...is anyone going to deport Choo?

Edit - Why must people keep taking the strawman route instead of answering the simple question at hand?

Here's a story from spring

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-Korean-army-could-soon-come-calling-for-Shin?urn=mlb-223198

Another noted that one option would be to just not return, but if he does that, he would be unable to his country. It's quite a conundrum.

OesterPoster
07-27-2010, 10:45 AM
Nope, this only applies to Cuba. As soon as a Cuban sets foot on U.S. soil, they're an American citizen.

Unless your name is Elian Gonzalez...but that's a whole 'nother story. :)

Hoosier Red
07-27-2010, 10:45 AM
Edit- Never mind, other people answered better than me.

HokieRed
07-27-2010, 11:02 AM
It's been a while since I've posted around here, but I really like your idea of Jim Edmonds, especially since one of our primary left hand bats (Jay Bruce) is pretty much non-existent as of late. Plus Edmonds, as he proved to us last night, is a clutch player.

Edmonds has been an obvious pickup for 3 years; I doubt he's coming our way.

Kc61
07-27-2010, 11:15 AM
Since the ASB the Reds have a .311 OBP in 11 games with a .699 OPS. They have walked, as a team, 29 times - same period the Cards have walked 45 times.

Over the full month of July the Reds have a .316 OBP. Very hard to win with OBP numbers like .316 and .311.

In the month of July, in 21 games, here are some OBP numbers - Phillips .224, Bruce .226, Stubbs .272. In my view, these three stats are key. IMO - these three stats along with Rolen's injury have caused the offense to sputter.

Can the Reds contend with two very talented young outfielders - Bruce and Stubbs - who are learning on the job in a pennant race? Should the Reds get a high OBP outfielder in a trade and sit Bruce and Stubbs more to get that new guy playing time? Or do you ride it out with the young guys and let them learn - as a strategy for the long term?

That's how I see the offensive problem. And it keys right into the trade decision.

RedLegSuperStar
07-27-2010, 12:32 PM
The Rockies are leaning towards being sellers.. This from Ken Rosenthal. He mentions the name Aaron Cook as a possible trade option. Would he fit in? He's not an ace but he's a solid 3. Thoughts?

BRM
07-27-2010, 12:35 PM
The Rockies are leaning towards being sellers.. This from Ken Rosenthal. He mentions the name Aaron Cook as a possible trade option. Would he fit in? He's not an ace but he's a solid 3. Thoughts?

He also speculated that Hawpe and Spilborghs could be traded regardless of what their buyer/seller decision is.

nate
07-27-2010, 12:45 PM
The Rockies are leaning towards being sellers.. This from Ken Rosenthal. He mentions the name Aaron Cook as a possible trade option. Would he fit in? He's not an ace but he's a solid 3. Thoughts?

I think we have a lot of those kinds of dudes already.

Our rotation is good as far as depth goes. To me, it needs height.

I(heart)Freel
07-27-2010, 03:17 PM
If OBP is what the Reds need right now, you send Nix down (away) and call up Dickerson. You can pick matchups and sit Gomes or Stubbs as needed to get Dickerson's bat, legs and patience in the lineup.

I know the knock on him is that he can't stay healthy, but aren't we really just hoping for 2-3 months of health right now? In a limited role, that's not unrealistic.

He certainly would've run the bases better than Nix last night. Ugh. Repeating for emphasis: Ugh.

HotCorner
07-27-2010, 03:59 PM
The Rockies are leaning towards being sellers.. This from Ken Rosenthal. He mentions the name Aaron Cook as a possible trade option. Would he fit in? He's not an ace but he's a solid 3. Thoughts?

I'd go after Joe Beimel. Great bullpen lefty.

RedsManRick
07-27-2010, 04:03 PM
If OBP is what the Reds need right now, you send Nix down (away) and call up Dickerson. You can pick matchups and sit Gomes or Stubbs as needed to get Dickerson's bat, legs and patience in the lineup.

I know the knock on him is that he can't stay healthy, but aren't we really just hoping for 2-3 months of health right now? In a limited role, that's not unrealistic.

He certainly would've run the bases better than Nix last night. Ugh. Repeating for emphasis: Ugh.

Agree 100%. This is a no brainer. Does Nix have options or we have have to be DFAd?

pedro
07-27-2010, 04:05 PM
Agree 100%. This is a no brainer. Does Nix have options or we have have to be DFAd?

I don't think it matters b/c I doubt anyone would make a waiver claim on him.

Will M
07-27-2010, 05:04 PM
a couple a bit 'outside the box' ideas.

#1 folks note our stable of decent to good starters & want to deal from this depth. usually its Harang or Bailey being dangled. yet guys on the DL usually don't bring a lot back in return. solution: trade Bronson Arroyo for offensive help. maybe in a deal for Werth??? thats two guys who will both be free agents after this year. the Reds could even kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal since Arroyo is owed more than Werth.

#2 trade Stubbs as part of a deal for a thumper in LF or RF. use Heiesy +- Dickerson in CF. added plus is that Heisey/Dickerson would make a fine leadoff combo & Cabrera can be dropped into the #8 spot in the order.

reds44
07-27-2010, 05:33 PM
a couple a bit 'outside the box' ideas.

#1 folks note our stable of decent to good starters & want to deal from this depth. usually its Harang or Bailey being dangled. yet guys on the DL usually don't bring a lot back in return. solution: trade Bronson Arroyo for offensive help. maybe in a deal for Werth??? thats two guys who will both be free agents after this year. the Reds could even kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal since Arroyo is owed more than Werth.

#2 trade Stubbs as part of a deal for a thumper in LF or RF. use Heiesy +- Dickerson in CF. added plus is that Heisey/Dickerson would make a fine leadoff combo & Cabrera can be dropped into the #8 spot in the order.
I actually really like this idea, just not sure there is a thumper LFer out there.

Gallen5862
07-27-2010, 05:34 PM
Two more Players available Per MLB Trade Rumors. Would either of them be worth a look?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


Marlins Release Nate Robertson
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 27 at 4:04pm CST]
The Marlins released Nate Robertson, according to Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post (Twitter link). Robertson struggled as a starter this season and the Marlins designated him for assignment last week. Today, the Marlins designated minor league right-hander Kris Harvey for assignment, according to Capozzi (Twitter link).


Robertson’s stats (5.47 ERA, 5.5 K/9 and 3.6BB/9) aren’t pretty and the outing against the Rockies that preceded his DFA was ugly (7 ER in 5.0 innings). However, his splits suggest he could be more effective out of the bullpen against lefties. The Tigers, Robertson’s former team, don’t appear to have interest. Any club can now sign Robertson for a pro-rated portion of the MLB minimum.



Indians Designate Wes Hodges For Assignment
By Tim Dierkes [July 27 at 12:54pm CST]
The Indians designated infielder Wes Hodges for assignment to make room for pitcher Josh Tomlin, according to the team.

Hodges, a second-round pick of the Indians in 2006, was hitting .270/.316/.423 this year in his second Triple A stint. He came up as a third baseman, but has been playing first base and DH this year. Baseball America ranked him 27th among Indians prospects heading into the season, citing health issues and the move off third base.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-27-2010, 05:37 PM
The Rockies are leaning towards being sellers.. This from Ken Rosenthal. He mentions the name Aaron Cook as a possible trade option. Would he fit in? He's not an ace but he's a solid 3. Thoughts?

There are Rockies I'd rather have before cook

I(heart)Freel
07-27-2010, 05:39 PM
a couple a bit 'outside the box' ideas.

#1 folks note our stable of decent to good starters & want to deal from this depth. usually its Harang or Bailey being dangled. yet guys on the DL usually don't bring a lot back in return. solution: trade Bronson Arroyo for offensive help. maybe in a deal for Werth??? thats two guys who will both be free agents after this year. the Reds could even kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal since Arroyo is owed more than Werth.

#2 trade Stubbs as part of a deal for a thumper in LF or RF. use Heiesy +- Dickerson in CF. added plus is that Heisey/Dickerson would make a fine leadoff combo & Cabrera can be dropped into the #8 spot in the order.

Exploring this further...

could the Reds send Stubbs and Arroyo to Philly for Werth and a bullpen arm?

I'm starting to wonder if the Reds plan on not picking up Arroyo's option in 2011, given Cueto/Volquez/Leake/Wood/Chapman/Bailey. I like Arroyo and his dependability, but maybe his and Harang's option money would be better spent on 4-year deals (front loaded) for Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez.

reds44
07-27-2010, 05:43 PM
Exploring this further...

could the Reds send Stubbs and Arroyo to Philly for Werth and a bullpen arm?

I'm starting to wonder if the Reds plan on not picking up Arroyo's option in 2011, given Cueto/Volquez/Leake/Wood/Chapman/Bailey. I like Arroyo and his dependability, but maybe his and Harang's option money would be better spent on 4-year deals (front loaded) for Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez.
I don't think I'd want to deal Arroyo right now. Volquez and Wood aren't exactly the most reliable guys right now, so we need him down the stretch.

Honest question:
Would you deal Stubbs for Josh Willingham?

CTA513
07-27-2010, 05:45 PM
a couple a bit 'outside the box' ideas.

#1 folks note our stable of decent to good starters & want to deal from this depth. usually its Harang or Bailey being dangled. yet guys on the DL usually don't bring a lot back in return. solution: trade Bronson Arroyo for offensive help. maybe in a deal for Werth??? thats two guys who will both be free agents after this year. the Reds could even kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal since Arroyo is owed more than Werth.

#2 trade Stubbs as part of a deal for a thumper in LF or RF. use Heiesy +- Dickerson in CF. added plus is that Heisey/Dickerson would make a fine leadoff combo & Cabrera can be dropped into the #8 spot in the order.

Gomes and Bruce are supposed to provide the power, but its looking like Stubbs might end up with more homers.

Mario-Rijo
07-27-2010, 05:46 PM
Exploring this further...

could the Reds send Stubbs and Arroyo to Philly for Werth and a bullpen arm?

I'm starting to wonder if the Reds plan on not picking up Arroyo's option in 2011, given Cueto/Volquez/Leake/Wood/Chapman/Bailey. I like Arroyo and his dependability, but maybe his and Harang's option money would be better spent on 4-year deals (front loaded) for Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez.

Phillies need BP help themselves. Arroyo is a thought to deal but he is our lone starter with playoff experience.

Brutus
07-27-2010, 05:47 PM
Exploring this further...

could the Reds send Stubbs and Arroyo to Philly for Werth and a bullpen arm?

I'm starting to wonder if the Reds plan on not picking up Arroyo's option in 2011, given Cueto/Volquez/Leake/Wood/Chapman/Bailey. I like Arroyo and his dependability, but maybe his and Harang's option money would be better spent on 4-year deals (front loaded) for Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez.

The Phillies are considering trading Werth to make room for Domonic Brown. There's no reason to be offering up someone like Stubbs.

Mario-Rijo
07-27-2010, 05:51 PM
a couple a bit 'outside the box' ideas.

#1 folks note our stable of decent to good starters & want to deal from this depth. usually its Harang or Bailey being dangled. yet guys on the DL usually don't bring a lot back in return. solution: trade Bronson Arroyo for offensive help. maybe in a deal for Werth??? thats two guys who will both be free agents after this year. the Reds could even kick in a prospect to sweeten the deal since Arroyo is owed more than Werth.

#2 trade Stubbs as part of a deal for a thumper in LF or RF. use Heiesy +- Dickerson in CF. added plus is that Heisey/Dickerson would make a fine leadoff combo & Cabrera can be dropped into the #8 spot in the order.

Why would you need a thumper COF if you have Werth in LF and Bruce in RF?

Gallen5862
07-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Here is another player to consider.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Rockies Designate Brad Eldred For Assignment
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 27 at 5:23pm CST]
The Rockies designated Brad Eldred for assignment to make room for Troy Tulowitzki, according to Steve Foster of Inside the Rockies. Five weeks after breaking his wrist, Tulowitzki returns to the Rockies lineup, so Eldred no longer has a place on the major league roster.

The 30-year-old first baseman batted just 27 times with Colorado, hitting one homer and posting a .750 OPS. Eldred has 196 minor league home runs and posted a .267/.323/.575 line at Triple A this year before getting the call to the majors.

Will M
07-27-2010, 07:47 PM
Why would you need a thumper COF if you have Werth in LF and Bruce in RF?

well if we got Werth the 2nd scenario wouldn't need to occur. the two scenarios i suggested aren't tied together. they are both independent ideas.

Falls City Beer
07-27-2010, 07:50 PM
The Reds have no thumpers in the OF currently. One would be a good start.

oregonred
07-28-2010, 12:13 AM
OT, but Cliff Lee pitched another 9 inning game tonight, 0BB, 13K. No decision.

Season Total: 7 BB, 114K

mth123
07-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Somebody threw out Kelly Johnson's name in one of these threads. As far as available bats go, he'd be a pretty good idea. A lefty with pop and OB skills. He could play LF against RH or give Phillips a breather against RHP as well. He'd be a pretty good guy to get IMO. Not sure if he can play 3B, but if he could spell Rolen as well, he could be in there almost every day against a RHP. It would be a big boost.

I really like the Scott Downs idea with the thought that it could make the Reds pen elite. If no starters are to be had, using Ondrusek, Masset, Rhodes, Downs and maybe Izzy at some point to shorten the games to 5 innings might help a rotation with two rookies (Leake and Wood) and three rehabbers (Volquez, Bailey and Harang) to choose from get it done. If the starter only needs to go through the line-up twice, it could improve them all a notch. That may be especially true of Leake and Wood since it will give guys fewer looks to zero in.

camisadelgolf
07-28-2010, 01:57 AM
I keep trying to think of ways to trade Aaron Harang before the Reds buy out his contract and elect not to offer him arbitration.

Dodgers get: Aaron Harang
Reds get: Chin-lung Hu

Mets get: Aaron Harang, Orlando Cabrera, Devin Mesoraco, Chris Valaika, Bill Bray, Chris Dickerson
Reds get: Jose Reyes, Dan Murphy, Tobi Stoner

Tigers get: Aaron Harang, Juan Francisco, Neftali Soto
Reds get: Danny Worth, Robbie Weinhardt

Yankees get: Aaron Harang
Reds get: Eduardo Nunez

Will M
07-28-2010, 11:17 AM
I have another idea. What about a switch of Cordero for Ibanez? Both are overpaid for this year & next. The money is exactly the same. The Phils could then call up their stud OF prospect. A glance at their stats shows they could use another reliever. The Reds could go with a Ibanez/Gomes platoon in LF.

pahster
07-28-2010, 11:26 AM
I have another idea. What about a switch of Cordero for Ibanez? Both are overpaid for this year & next. The money is exactly the same. The Phils could then call up their stud OF prospect. A glance at their stats shows they could use another reliever. The Reds could go with a Ibanez/Gomes platoon in LF.

Ibanez makes Dunn look like Carl Crawford on D. He's 38 years old and has a line of .260/.343/.411. That's a 100 OPS+, which makes him a league average bat. This is from a guy who plays half of his games in a pretty good park for hitting. He doesn't improve the Reds in any way. He probably makes them worse.

Surely Heisey or Dickerson could hit .260/.343/.411. They'd certainly play better defense, too.

camisadelgolf
07-28-2010, 11:37 AM
Ibanez also has a no-trade clause iIrc.