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View Full Version : Cueto or Greinke?



Mario-Rijo
07-27-2010, 02:02 PM
For those who know. Just your honest opinion and if you'd care to share why you feel this way who is the better young arm? I have my own opinion but I'm having a debate with someone and would like others to shed a little light on the subject.

I should add that this is simply a talent/skill comparison, take their respective money, production etc. out of the equation.

KronoRed
07-27-2010, 04:24 PM
Greinke, Cueto isn't bad though :D

dougdirt
07-27-2010, 04:33 PM
6 of the 14 votes so far think Cueto is better than Greinke? Really? Please explain yourselves.

KronoRed
07-27-2010, 04:34 PM
6 of the 14 votes so far think Cueto is better than Greinke? Really? Please explain yourselves.

Reds homers.;)

mdccclxix
07-27-2010, 04:34 PM
Let me check the number of wins before I weigh in...

dougdirt
07-27-2010, 04:59 PM
9 Cueto voters and no one has commented on why so far.... are you guys just messing with me here?

TheBurn
07-27-2010, 05:09 PM
Alright, alright... I was one of the Cueto voters.
But I have to admit that it was purely involuntary reflex. I am just really high on JC right now. If some kind of number is needed to back it up I guess that would be the number 3. As in Cueto is (I believe) 3 years younger.

nate
07-27-2010, 05:10 PM
I voted for Greinke. Just all around better, peripherals trending in the right direction and good to begin with.

I'd honestly like to have both.

Brutus
07-27-2010, 05:14 PM
Their numbers are surprisingly somewhat comparable, but I am surprised as many have gone with Cueto thus far as they have.

Career numbers

FIP

Greinke (3.62)
Cueto (4.52)

K/9

Greinke (7.64)
Cueto (7.26)

BB/9

Greinke (2.22)
Cueto (3.26)

HR/9

Greinke (0.95)
Cueto (1.19)

GB/FB

Greinke (0.98)
Cueto (1.01)

Greinke still gets him in just about every measure. I think Cueto has the kind of talent that he could be on Greinke's level soon, but right now, I'd have to conclude Greinke is the better talent.

HokieRed
07-27-2010, 05:22 PM
I like them both very much and Greinke's overall numbers are better: most especially in K/BB. The case for Cueto would have to be projective and based on the pattern in his WHIPS: from 1.414 to 1.360 to 1.243 in his 24 year old season, one very similar to Greinke's in his 24 year old season: 1.275.

Mario-Rijo
07-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Doug can you rate these 2 on pure stuff, command and control on the 20/80 scale? My feeling on the subject is that it's not really that close. Cueto with above average stuff to perhaps plus in some areas Greinke with plus stuff and plus, plus in some areas. IMO if true that is a world of difference. Also don't agree Cueto can ever really get to his level of raw stuff with experience/age, to me that is just god given. Now the command/control of said pitches is something than can improve

Cueto - + fastball, + Change, Average to slightly above slider, above average command, average control.

Greinke - ++ fastball - ++ Slider - ++ command, + control, average to slightly above curve, average change up

What do you think?

RedsManRick
07-27-2010, 06:39 PM
I like Cueto, but I don't think this is even close. Greinke's current FIP shows where his talent is. Kansas City has and has had a poor defense behind him and their long/middle relief has been really rough. That 64% LOB% is ridiculously and unsustainably low given his HR/rate.

In some ways, you could consider Cueto a Greinke light. Similar repertoire, but quite as good as stuff nor control/command.

OesterPoster
07-28-2010, 09:26 AM
I waffled for a bit, but I went with Cueto. My reasoning was the age factor. One of Cueto's comps at age 23 is, oddly enough, Zack Greinke. One of Greinke's comps at age 25 is Jose Rijo.

So my logic says that if I can have 2 years of Cueto (with Greinke numbers) before he turns into Rijo...then I take it. That was my logic, flawed or not.

Of course, I didn't try predicting who Greinke turns into in 2 years. :)

dunner13
07-28-2010, 09:47 AM
I think if you put grienke in the NL Central (which by the way is something I hope Walt is working on) then his numbers would separate him from Cueto. JC is a very very good young pitcher and I hope within the next year or two he can develop into a grienke like talent but hes not there just yet.

lollipopcurve
07-28-2010, 09:52 AM
It's Greinke by a safe margin.

TheNext44
07-28-2010, 10:08 AM
Grienke has better stuff all the way around. Better fastball, better off speed pitches, better control, more movement.

But I still could see Cueto being more productive from here on out. Odds are Grienke will, but not by much.

Tony Cloninger
07-28-2010, 10:28 AM
Don't blame me...I voted for Kodos!

It's Greinke. For now. He is more complete and does not seem to get rattled at all. In a few years ...the question will be...Leake or Grienke and it will be probably Leake getting the votes.