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View Full Version : Strasburg scratched tonight with shoulder inflammation



Cedric
07-27-2010, 11:20 PM
How many people in Washington just had a heart attack?

When I hear about shoulder injuries I almost always think the worst.

11larkin11
07-27-2010, 11:30 PM
I knew the Nats should have fired Dusty Baker.

mdccclxix
07-27-2010, 11:33 PM
At least he was inducted to the HOF last month before he got injured.

WVRedsFan
07-28-2010, 12:15 AM
Too much too soon. I guess. Heck, I don't know, but Lord Strasburg was revered on ESPN so much that I don't what they'll talk about if he's out for awhile. When he pitched 5+ innings against the Reds and allowed what he did and the headline on the front page said that he had stifled the Reds, I just lost it.

I hate ESPN.

redsmetz
07-28-2010, 05:28 AM
Here's the Washington Post story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/27/AR2010072705793.html?hpid=artslot

Razor Shines
07-28-2010, 05:49 AM
Nah, he was pulled because he's part of an upcoming trade.

lollipopcurve
07-28-2010, 07:24 AM
His mechanics remind me a bit of Mark Prior.

mbgrayson
07-28-2010, 07:37 AM
I went to the Nationals game last night. The game was a near sell-out, over 40,000 fans. Many were wearing Strasburg t-shirts. He is their hope for a winning team. Strasburg was listed in the lineup and warmed up. I saw him and the pitching coach walk from the bullpen to the dugout before the game.

Then, when lineups were officially announced, Miguel Batista was the Nats pitcher. The fans booed. Everyone around my seat was thinking that the Nats just changed pitchers to get another sell out the next day. When it was announced that Strasburg 'couldn't get loose', people were not happy.

Batista and the Nats bullpen shut down the Braves 3-0, but many were not very happy leaving the game anyway. They clearly are focused on Strasburg as the future. I hope he is ok, but they need to use caution with him.

RedFanAlways1966
07-28-2010, 07:46 AM
Batista and the Nats bullpen shut down the Braves 3-0, but many were not very happy leaving the game anyway. They clearly are focused on Strasburg as the future.

The same fans that will want to burn the Nats FO at the stake if Strasburg suffered a major injury b/c the team decided making 40,000+ fans happy for one night was worth an arm injury to their stud.

Funny how that works. Darned if you do, darned if you don't! :)


Everyone around my seat was thinking that the Nats just changed pitchers to get another sell out the next day.

A conspiracy theory in DC? Say it ain't so. That never happens in our nation's capital. :eek:

_Sir_Charles_
07-28-2010, 09:41 AM
At least he was inducted to the HOF last month before he got injured.

ROFLMAO!!! That was great. :O)

Sea Ray
07-28-2010, 10:53 AM
It's hard to say at this point if it's a shoulder injury because the Nats are treating him like the sportscar you only take out of the garage on perfectly sunny days. Since they're not in a pennant race they can do this. Last night in the 2nd inning Marty and his guest were comparing the Reds handling of Mike Leake and the Nats with Strasberg. What they failed to mention was the most obvious fact that the Nats don't have to win games whereas the Reds are in a pennant race. The Nats can set a strict innings limit for Strasberg and treat the rest of the season like Spring Training but the Reds are in position to go to the post season for the 1st time since 1995. That clearly changes the equation in how much you'll use an effective pitcher

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2010, 09:05 PM
Washington Nationals starter Miguel Batista, the replacement starter for injured Stephen Strasburg on Tuesday night, made fun of himself after hearing the home crowd boo. They paid money to watch Strasburg, not him, which invoked this beauty of a quote:

"Imagine if you go to see Miss Universe, then you end up having Miss Iowa,'' Batista said, "you might get those kind of boos.''



"People started booing me, and they hadn't seen me throw a pitch yet," Batista told the Washington Post, explaining his quote. "It's like you hear Miss Iowa, and you say, 'Iowa?' And then you see her up close and you say, 'Wow, she's gorgeous.' "

Batista discovered the outrage his comment drew in Iowa, with Connors issuing a statement": I know I can throw a pitch or two! "The question is, can Miguel Batista walk the runway in a swimsuit?"



"Congratulations to Mr. Batista for an outstanding pitching performance last night,'' said Craig Heitkamp, executive co-director of the Miss Iowa Pageant. "Sometimes it's great to see the underdog win. We would like to formally invite Mr. Batista to serve on the judging panel at the Miss Iowa USA Pageant October 23 & 24 in Ames, Iowa."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/07/sorry-miss-iowa-does-this-mean-a-date-is-out-of-the-question-/1

Funny quote by Batista and a funny response from Miss Iowa.

WVRedsFan
07-28-2010, 10:47 PM
Following a pitcher and hoping one player, no matter how good he is is a foolish thing for fans to hold onto. The Nats have lots of problems and Steven can pitch lights out for a long time, but if the problems aren't solved, they will still be losers.

dougdirt
07-28-2010, 10:51 PM
It's hard to say at this point if it's a shoulder injury because the Nats are treating him like the sportscar you only take out of the garage on perfectly sunny days. Since they're not in a pennant race they can do this. Last night in the 2nd inning Marty and his guest were comparing the Reds handling of Mike Leake and the Nats with Strasberg. What they failed to mention was the most obvious fact that the Nats don't have to win games whereas the Reds are in a pennant race. The Nats can set a strict innings limit for Strasberg and treat the rest of the season like Spring Training but the Reds are in position to go to the post season for the 1st time since 1995. That clearly changes the equation in how much you'll use an effective pitcher

I heard that too and I just kept shaking my head. A players long term health is more important than the team making a playoff run, especially if that player could help lead future playoff runs.

11larkin11
07-28-2010, 11:12 PM
Surely, there are reasons for ALL pitching injuries right? None are ever flukes.

So, whats the reason?

Innings increase?
101 pitches in a game?
Pitching on 3 days rest?
Dusty Baker?

George Anderson
07-28-2010, 11:41 PM
I am sure glad Jim Bunning isn't the Reds pitching coach. He would make Dusty look like a coddler of arms.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40377.html

CTA513
07-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Surely, there are reasons for ALL pitching injuries right? None are ever flukes.

So, whats the reason?

Innings increase?
101 pitches in a game?
Pitching on 3 days rest?
Dusty Baker?

Baker ruined him when the Reds played the Nationals.

;)

11larkin11
07-28-2010, 11:55 PM
I am sure glad Jim Bunning isn't the Reds pitching coach. He would make Dusty look like a coddler of arms.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40377.html

This guy scoffs at Nolan Ryan's pitch counts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST28700020080418

RBA
07-29-2010, 12:06 AM
Bunning is remembered for his role in the pennant race of 1964, in which the Phillies held a commanding lead in the National League for most of the season, eventually losing the title to the St. Louis Cardinals. Manager Gene Mauch used Bunning and fellow hurler Chris Short heavily down the stretch, and the two became visibly fatigued as September wore on. The collapse of the 1964 Phillies remains one of the most infamous in baseball history. With a six and a half game lead as late as September 21, they lost 10 games in a row to finish tied for second place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bunning

dougdirt
07-29-2010, 12:40 AM
Surely, there are reasons for ALL pitching injuries right? None are ever flukes.

So, whats the reason?

Innings increase?
101 pitches in a game?
Pitching on 3 days rest?
Dusty Baker?

The first reason is always that throwing a baseball is the most unnatural motion in sports. Some mechanics are better than others and Strasburg had a few flags in his. Still, until something comes out that he is actually hurt and its more than just a strain, this all seems a little overblown.

The Operator
07-29-2010, 01:23 AM
Surely, there are reasons for ALL pitching injuries right? None are ever flukes.

So, whats the reason?

Innings increase?
101 pitches in a game?
Pitching on 3 days rest?
Dusty Baker?

I think the answer lies somewhere in Strasburg's taste in coffee and clothing.

TheNext44
07-29-2010, 03:42 AM
I think the answer lies somewhere in Strasburg's taste in coffee and clothing.

Or Tea

http://www.theonion.com/articles/fancy-man-enjoys-tea,2317/

redsmetz
07-29-2010, 06:47 AM
Update from Washington Post. He's going to be in the same situation as Leake, I think.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/28/AR2010072805775.html

Sea Ray
07-29-2010, 08:45 AM
I heard that too and I just kept shaking my head. A players long term health is more important than the team making a playoff run, especially if that player could help lead future playoff runs.

If he's clearly fatigued, OK but what if he pitches 170 innings and is still pitching well? Do you shut him down in a pennant race like 170 is sacred or something?

dougdirt
07-29-2010, 09:25 AM
If he's clearly fatigued, OK but what if he pitches 170 innings and is still pitching well? Do you shut him down in a pennant race like 170 is sacred or something?

Absolutely 100%. There just is no reason to risk his arm. When it comes to pitchers, always err on the side of caution. And it isn't the 170 mark, its the innings last year +30.

Sea Ray
07-29-2010, 10:45 AM
Absolutely 100%. There just is no reason to risk his arm. When it comes to pitchers, always err on the side of caution. And it isn't the 170 mark, its the innings last year +30.

OK, then what's so sacred about the number 30? Why not 20 or 40?

dougdirt
07-29-2010, 10:46 AM
OK, then what's so sacred about the number 30? Why not 20 or 40?

Research has shown that 30 seems to be the 'target' where guys start to get hurt at a higher rate than under 30 the following season.

Sea Ray
07-29-2010, 11:40 AM
Research has shown that 30 seems to be the 'target' where guys start to get hurt at a higher rate than under 30 the following season.

Suddenly a sportswriter is a researcher? I understand that some believe this 30 inning thing but can you at least admit that this research represents an inexact science?

dougdirt
07-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Suddenly a sportswriter is a researcher? I understand that some believe this 30 inning thing but can you at least admit that this research represents an inexact science?

Anyone who is willing to put in the time and effort can be a researcher. Not sure what his job has to do with his ability to run numbers.

And sure, it is an inexact science. It doesn't mean that I am going to try and buck the odds and risk injury though.

Redsfan320
07-29-2010, 12:11 PM
He's been put on the 15-day DL with shoulder stiffness, retroactive to the 22nd, ESPN reports. Lefty Scott Olsen, has been activated from DL to take his roster spot.

320

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2010, 12:22 PM
The Cardinals have a four game series vs the Nationals later this month. I don't know how they continue doing it but it looks like they will once again avoid facing a top notch pitcher.

cumberlandreds
07-29-2010, 12:55 PM
He's been put on the 15-day DL with shoulder stiffness, retroactive to the 22nd, ESPN reports. Lefty Scott Olsen, has been activated from DL to take his roster spot.

320

Here's the link. DC is in mourning.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=2014708 (http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=2014708)

Cedric
07-29-2010, 01:40 PM
Just watched the MLB network commercial with him pitching. I never realized until now how bad his mechanics really are. He has a major inverted W.

Sea Ray
07-29-2010, 02:01 PM
He's been put on the 15-day DL with shoulder stiffness, retroactive to the 22nd, ESPN reports. Lefty Scott Olsen, has been activated from DL to take his roster spot.

320

Did he put in an extra 30 innings this year?

The Operator
07-29-2010, 09:14 PM
Just watched the MLB network commercial with him pitching. I never realized until now how bad his mechanics really are. He has a major inverted W.

Yea, his mechanics remind me A LOT of Mark Prior's.

Tony Cloninger
07-29-2010, 10:10 PM
I thought pitches or pitch counts.... were more important. Not the innings.

dougdirt
07-29-2010, 10:13 PM
I thought pitches or pitch counts.... were more important. Not the innings.

Both are important.

Brutus
07-29-2010, 10:19 PM
Both are important.

Both are said to be important.

There are still major voids in research indicating the veracity of either. For now, all we have is paranoia and (most likely) drug-induced injuries that have been inadvertently labeled as causation instead of correlation.

westofyou
08-11-2010, 09:29 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081006972.html


But with 19 days of rust since his last start, the 22-year-old was stripped of all the polish that has defined his dazzling rookie year. The sight was stunning for a mute crowd of 25,939 that had come to expect the remarkable and anticipate the spectacular. For those who perhaps failed to understand that Strasburg's fastball - the highest in the majors at an average of 97.4 mph - is his least exceptional quality, this game was the object lesson.

"My arm felt really good . . . I just didn't know where it was going today," Strasburg said after getting shelled for five doubles, a homer, two walks and six runs in 4 1/3 innings of an 8-2 loss to Florida. "This is the first time [in the majors] when not one pitch I felt like I had control of it."

With no confidence in his control of his change-up, Strasburg threw only one circle change in his first 60 pitches. In the first inning, he missed the plate with five straight curves, tantamount to holding up a sign saying, "Sit on my fastball."

The slugger-packed Marlins did. Aside from opposing pitcher Anbal Snchez, who fanned twice, Florida swung and missed at only four of Strasburg's 84 pitches; only two other Fish whiffed. As Strasburg fell behind 2-0 and 3-0 in counts, the powerful Marlins took batting practice.

George Anderson
08-11-2010, 09:31 AM
Why do I always have David Clyde in the back of my mind when I hear Strasburg's name??

traderumor
08-11-2010, 09:53 AM
"There is no such thing as a pitching prospect." Cue Mister Mister

lollipopcurve
08-11-2010, 10:13 AM
Just watched the MLB network commercial with him pitching. I never realized until now how bad his mechanics really are. He has a major inverted W.

Yep. I said it in post #7. Prioresque.

Tornon
08-23-2010, 09:45 PM
Looks like Strasburg was put back on the DL.

I don't know if anybody was watching MLB Network tonight, but Rob Dibble absolutely tore into Strasburg on his radio show today apparently. Saying stuff about how Strasburg is a professional pitcher now and if he hurts himself like that he should suck it up and stay in the game (since it's his job) and not cry for the manager every time he gets hurt

Cedric
08-23-2010, 09:49 PM
Looks like Strasburg was put back on the DL.

I don't know if anybody was watching MLB Network tonight, but Rob Dibble absolutely tore into Strasburg on his radio show today apparently. Saying stuff about how Strasburg is a professional pitcher now and if he hurts himself like that he should suck it up and stay in the game (since it's his job) and not cry for the manager every time he gets hurt

I just wish someone could shut up Dibble.

CTA513
08-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Looks like Strasburg was put back on the DL.

I don't know if anybody was watching MLB Network tonight, but Rob Dibble absolutely tore into Strasburg on his radio show today apparently. Saying stuff about how Strasburg is a professional pitcher now and if he hurts himself like that he should suck it up and stay in the game (since it's his job) and not cry for the manager every time he gets hurt

Dibble is an idiot if he said that.

The Operator
08-24-2010, 03:27 AM
Dibble is an idiot

Fixed that for 'ya. :)

cumberlandreds
08-24-2010, 07:45 AM
Dibble is an idiot if he said that.

He is even if he didn't say it. He spews stuff like this all the time on the air. I don't know how he is still around.

Sea Ray
08-24-2010, 09:27 AM
No way he should have stayed in the game after that injury. Just by looking at his face after he threw his last pitch is evidence enough that he really hurt himself. It'd be idiocy to stay in after that.

westofyou
08-24-2010, 01:29 PM
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/08/24/the-pain-of-pitching/#more-3834



Every scout has a story — every single scout. Stories come with the job. If you travel around for baseball, dusty town to dusty town, big city to small, and you watch young talents pitch baseballs for long enough, you are going to see a kid with the winning arsenal, a kid with the huge fastball, the devastating curve, the nasty slider, a kid who with the right breaks just might become the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball. And, if you’re an honest scout, you know they probably won’t get the right breaks. That’s the thing about pitching. The hard part is not the stuff. There are many, many, many pitchers with the stuff. The hard part is enduring.


This isn’t new. If feels new because of the expectation and because of the money and because of pitch counts and because of Tommy John surgery. It feels new because Stephen Strasburg got paid $15 million, and because Washington has done everything shy of putting him in a Brink’s truck protect to him, and because more than any other prospect in baseball history we have all had the chance to see his brilliance and dream a little bit.

But it isn’t new. This is as old as brushback pitches. Mostly … brilliant young pitchers get hurt. It has been like this for more than a century. Cy Young … Walter Johnson … Roger Clemens … Nolan Ryan … Randy Johnson … Warren Spahn … Tom Seaver … Pete Alexander … these guys weren’t the greatest simply because of their amazing pitches or their makeup or their competitive nature. These guys were the greatest because, somehow, against the odds, they kept going. The human elbow, the shoulder, the back muscles … these were not built to last. But in the case of the few great ones, they did last. The breaks went their way.

George Anderson
08-24-2010, 01:54 PM
I am guessing Dibble followed his own brilliant advice by evidence his career ended in injury.

RedsBaron
08-24-2010, 05:43 PM
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/08/24/the-pain-of-pitching/#more-3834

Good article by Posnanski (as usual). I was glad to see he mentioned Gary Nolan. Nolan was arguably a better pitcher than Tom Seaver was in 1967, which was the rookie season for both. Seaver stayed healthy and made the Hall of Fame while Nolan began experiencing arm problems the next season and by 1970 no longer had the same overpowering stuff.
Just out of curiousity, I checked out the stats of Nolan and Seaver in 1967. Nolan had a 14-8 record, with a 2.58 ERA, an ERA+ of 147, WHIP of 1.125, 8 complete games, 5 shutouts, 226 innings pitched, 193 hits allowed, 62 walks, 206 strikeouts, and a league leading 8.2 strikeouts per nine innings.
Seaver was 16-13, with a 2.76 ERA, an ERA+ of 122, WHIP of 1.203, 18 complete games, 2 shutouts, 251 innings pitched, 224 hits allowed, 78 walks, 170 strikeouts and 6.1 strikeouts per nine innings.
Obviously both Nolan and Seaver were outstanding rookies. Nolan's numbers if anything appear to be a hair better to me, and he was three years younger than Seaver, age 19 to age 22. If only his arm had lasted as long as that of Tom Terrific's.

Always Red
08-24-2010, 06:31 PM
Good article by Posnanski (as usual). I was glad to see he mentioned Gary Nolan. Nolan was arguably a better pitcher than Tom Seaver was in 1967, which was the rookie season for both. Seaver stayed healthy and made the Hall of Fame while Nolan began experiencing arm problems the next season and by 1970 no longer had the same overpowering stuff.
Just out of curiousity, I checked out the stats of Nolan and Seaver in 1967. Nolan had a 14-8 record, with a 2.58 ERA, an ERA+ of 147, WHIP of 1.125, 8 complete games, 5 shutouts, 226 innings pitched, 193 hits allowed, 62 walks, 206 strikeouts, and a league leading 8.2 strikeouts per nine innings.
Seaver was 16-13, with a 2.76 ERA, an ERA+ of 122, WHIP of 1.203, 18 complete games, 2 shutouts, 251 innings pitched, 224 hits allowed, 78 walks, 170 strikeouts and 6.1 strikeouts per nine innings.
Obviously both Nolan and Seaver were outstanding rookies. Nolan's numbers if anything appear to be a hair better to me, and he was three years younger than Seaver, age 19 to age 22. If only his arm had lasted as long as that of Tom Terrific's.

Good stuff there, RedsBaron, thanks for the research.

Nolan was a great talent, and so was Wayne Simpson- maybe even better. Some arms are meant to stand the rigors of pitching, and some never will, no matter how talented they are. At least Nolan was able to recover enough to put together a solid career, play for 2 WS winning teams, and pitch in 4 different World Series.

I truly hope Strasberg has a chance to have a nice career. He's been fun to watch so far- and the Nationals have done everything they can do to pamper his arm

cumberlandreds
08-26-2010, 07:58 AM
Dibble is getting some time off for his comments about Strasburg. The article says he is taking time off on his own. But I suspect its more of a suspension time off. I doubt that the Nats will be hiring him back as the analyst next season too.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=398&sid=2036361