PDA

View Full Version : How did Dunn get the bad rap



brm7675
07-28-2010, 01:23 PM
I keep reading where people don't like Adam Dunn because he was lazy, or didn't do this or didn't do that. For the life of me I would love to know where people got this view. It's true Dunn is not a 5 tools type of guy, but his numbers at the plate are beyond question. I am not advocating obtaining he via trade as I would rather have Gomes in RF right now, but the hate that Dunn gets is really unfair.

Moosie52
07-28-2010, 01:26 PM
It was the strikeouts.

sivman17
07-28-2010, 01:28 PM
He was the epitome of a 1-tool player. Terrible defense, no arm strength, slow, couldn't hit for average.

He hit HRs, and that's it. I've always believed that HRs is somewhat of an overrated statistic. Nowhere else has that been more evident with Adam Dunn.

brm7675
07-28-2010, 01:33 PM
He was the epitome of a 1-tool player. Terrible defense, no arm strength, slow, couldn't hit for average.

He hit HRs, and that's it. I've always believed that HRs is somewhat of an overrated statistic. Nowhere else has that been more evident with Adam Dunn.

Again facts don't support your view. His OBP is great, and it's the K that is overrated, not the HR. Also you can't power the homeruns like he did and not have a gun for an arm. He is slow, at first that doesn't matter. Also his average was always above .250 for the most part, I will take that. Think what his RBI's would be with this lineup and how we get on base.

brm7675
07-28-2010, 01:34 PM
It was the strikeouts.

so if you K alot you a bad person? Because if that is true then omg, Stubbs must be horrible.

GIDP
07-28-2010, 01:35 PM
Because his main strength was OBP and was never used as that type of player.

Rijo's Ghost
07-28-2010, 01:36 PM
so if you K alot you a bad person? Because if that is true then omg, Stubbs must be horrible.

Should be that simple, but Stubbs has "speed" which people like more than power for some reason.

But yeah, Dunn gets a bad rap because of his strikeouts, that's it.

sivman17
07-28-2010, 01:37 PM
Again facts don't support your view. His OBP is great, and it's the K that is overrated, not the HR. Also you can't power the homeruns like he did and not have a gun for an arm. He is slow, at first that doesn't matter. Also his average was always above .250 for the most part, I will take that. Think what his RBI's would be with this lineup and how we get on base.

In eight seasons with the Reds, his BA was under .250 five times.

He had power, but he did not have a gun for an arm.

He didn't play first for us, he played LF, so his lack of speed and lack of arm strength did matter.

GIDP
07-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Seriously Dunn spent the majority of his career hitting 4-6 in the line up. He should have been looked at as the guy that is driven in instead of the guy that drives guys in. The homers were going to come no matter where he hit, Reds ultimately failed at noticing that.

scott91575
07-28-2010, 02:07 PM
He is one of the most overpaid players in baseball from a Sabermatrician standpoint.

Just look at his WAR for the last 4 years...0.6, 3.0, 2.1, 0.9. In only 1 year did he come close to earning his salary. In 2004 and 2005 he was much better 5.5 and 4.3. He is also having a really nice year this year, and playing first also helps. Yet 2006 is when people really began to sour on him, and deservedly so. 683 plate appearances and a WAR of 0.6 is atrocious.

BTW...from personal standpoint it seemed like he never got the big hit when the Reds needed it, and seemed to always be at the plate when one was needed. Not sure if that is true or not, but his career .231 BA w/RISP kind of points to that fact.

GIDP
07-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Dunn has also improved his his value greatly since going to the nationals. He has hit better, and is now playing a position where he doesn't kill his value defensively.

markymark69
07-28-2010, 02:22 PM
Let me first say that I was a fan of Adam Dunn. I still am. I think he got a bad rap here, but I can't discount the reasons for why he was not liked. But, 40 HR, 100 RS, 100 RBI guys do not grow on trees.

However, I think many felt that he should have driven in more runs for where he hit in the line-up and the money that he was being paid. Also, the fact that the team did not win and I think most people felt his demeanor was of someone who didn't really care. Not saying that it's fair, it's just my observation in answering the question.

As a fan of his, I thought that at times he was too selective at the plate and took way too many strikes - where as if he had hit those balls, maybe he would have driven in more runs and perhaps as a result the team would have won more.

I also didn't like the fact that he didn't want to move to first base, but then the minute he was traded, he agreed to play anywhere the D'Backs and later the Nationals asked him to.

All in all, I still think Dunn gets unfair criticism and I think down the road when people just look at the numbers that he did put up for this franchise - he will be looked on more favorably.

Fon Duc Tow
07-28-2010, 02:33 PM
He wasn't called "Big Donkey" for nothing...

krm1580
07-28-2010, 02:49 PM
I think it went a little like this.....

-Comes up from minors as at 21 year old with monster numbers .334/.444/.672/1.116. Fans anticpate monster numbers in the big leagues along with recent acquistion of Junior Griffey will equate to numerous trips to the post season.

-Has solid first full season, but does not appear to improve in following season. Losses continue to mount.

-After third season, not only is there no improvement, but appears to be regressing. Terms such as "True 3 outcome player" start to get thrown around. Fans begin to focus on flaws in his game such as defense, pathetic strikeout rate, .230 batting average. Losses continue.

-Contract is up. Debate ensues over worth. Is he .900 OPS guy or .230 hitting, 200K, black hole playing left field. Gets short term big number contract, fan base becomes increasingly polarized. Its pretty much downhill from here.

-New management looks for a change. Ships him out of town for a bag of used batting practice balls. So ending the Adam Dunn era in Cincinnati.

Personally I liked Adam Dunn but I think there were 2 major things that led to his downfall.

1.) Even if everything went perfect and he was the hardest working guy on the planet, he was probably never as good as his minor league numbers suggested he was. As such he was most likely going to disappoint in relation to what the expectations were.

2.) He NEVER improved. When a guy comes up a 21-22 you figure there will be a learning curve he will eventually get on top of. But Adam Dunn did not get better and by a lot of measures got worse. When a guy with a lot of ability goes year after year does not get better whether its fair or not people are going to say its due to lack of effort and laziness. Throw in the fact that he was never a guy considered to be in the best of shape and the whole lazy argument running full steam ahead. Honestly I don't know what the story is but fair or not perception is reality and he did not do a whole lot to help himself.

Texas Pete
07-28-2010, 02:54 PM
I'm still a big Dunn fan.

sagevic
07-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Dunn was ruined here by the weight of expectations caused by his tremendous rookie season. He was vilified becasue he had the athletic ability to be a true five tool player, and neglected his arm and conditioning to a point that he was a liability in the field.

Dunn was a premiere quarterback prospect. He had the arm, and running ability to play the corner outfield spots well. He never developed his glove. By 2003 he was the worst defensive player on the roster, and could have been a stand-out. This created so much derision with the fans.

On offense, he had the best batter's eye on the team, and elite bat-speed. he could hit with power to all fields. He had a pure swing. When he first came up they couldn't get him out. It wasn't a question of the pitchers adjusting to him, as it was his changing his approach at the plate, to his detriment. Overtime he stopped trying to predict the pitch location and waited for the pitch to break before he began his swing. This cut down on the check swing called strikes, but greatly incresed his swing-and-miss totals. It improved his walk rate, but robed his line-drive rates. No Major League hitting coach would ever encourage a player to bat that way. The fact he did, and saw his BA spiral and SO rates soar, and continued to do so over and over tells us a lot about him as a young player.

He's playing a lot better in Washington. He can give very good production to a contending team. I wish the Angels would trade for him since he could slide over to DH next year when Kendry Moralles returns if Matsui doesn't re-sign, but it doesn't look like they are leaning in that direction.

But as far as the average Reds Fan is concerned, he was a guy who had Hall Of Fame talent but let his skills erode to the point he never became close to what he could have been.

defender
07-28-2010, 04:03 PM
2.) He NEVER improved. When a guy comes up a 21-22 you figure there will be a learning curve he will eventually get on top of. But Adam Dunn did not get better and by a lot of measures got worse. When a guy with a lot of ability goes year after year does not get better whether its fair or not people are going to say its due to lack of effort and laziness. Throw in the fact that he was never a guy considered to be in the best of shape and the whole lazy argument running full steam ahead. Honestly I don't know what the story is but fair or not perception is reality and he did not do a whole lot to help himself.

For all the faults his detractors could find in him, this is the real reason. Even his biggest fans could not help being disappointed year after year.

BigJohn
07-28-2010, 05:58 PM
Career RISP 1103 1209 520 279 59 1 79 497K 373 417 18 6 .231 .414 .477 .891

sivman17
07-28-2010, 07:36 PM
Career RISP 1103 1209 520 279 59 1 79 497K 373 417 18 6 .231 .414 .477 .891

:confused:

Mutaman
07-28-2010, 08:06 PM
It would be nice if just once he could lead his team to a better than .500 record.

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 08:18 PM
It would be nice if just once he could lead his team to a better than .500 record.

Albert Pujols couldn't lead the '01-'08 Reds or '09-'10 Nats to the playoffs. Here are three reasons why (casual) Reds fans didn't like Adam Dunn:
1) Reds fans believe Strikeouts are the end of the world, and we all know Dunn strikes out a good bit.
2) Reds fans believed Batting Average is the most important statistic.
3) He had huge expectations coming up, and although became a very solid player, never was a perennial All Star or MVP candidate.

I remember hearing callers during Pre/Post game shows on 700 WLW w/ Marty & Co. and would just feel embarrassed at how simple-minded some "dedicated" fans were when talking about Dunn (those "simple-minded" fans include Marty & Co. themselves as well).

Fullboat
07-28-2010, 08:19 PM
The problem with Dunn was he was getting paid more(and would of asked for more if he stayed a Red) for what he was producing.Fans of his would say he always was on base(I say he was pitched around)when the opposing pitcher had no choice he would just K him.

Faults: K'D to much
Low batting avg.
Dunn would end the season with 40Hr but like 90 or so
RBI's (lots of solo HR's if you ask me)
Sac flys (Yeah I think it took a year or two get one)
Bad defensive OF

All that for 14 Mil.+ he was looking for(never mind what he got) I say
no FREAKING WAY!!

Vottomatic
07-28-2010, 08:37 PM
I believe Dunn has never started a season with a team that finished with a winning record. Only when he was traded to the D-Backs did he finish the season with a team with a winning record. And then they failed to make the playoffs, the whole reason they obtained him.

Kinda says it all.

If he was a winner. A winning team would want him. These scouts and execs do their homework. Dunn is not a winner.

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 09:36 PM
I believe Dunn has never started a season with a team that finished with a winning record. Only when he was traded to the D-Backs did he finish the season with a team with a winning record. And then they failed to make the playoffs, the whole reason they obtained him.

Kinda says it all.

If he was a winner. A winning team would want him. These scouts and execs do their homework. Dunn is not a winner.

Yep...Dunn's gotta learn to pitch better or there's no way he can lead his team to the playoffs. :rolleyes:

Reds
07-28-2010, 09:50 PM
I have to agree with Vottomatic, he's never even played on a team with a winning record, let alone playoffs. He's also never lead the league in HRs for a year, although I don't know what that says.

powersackers
07-28-2010, 09:58 PM
I am a huge Dunn fan. I'd go to war with him. Someone mentioned it above, but it's lack of dedication / love of the game that befell him from reaching this game's elite. He should be an All Star every year with his raw abilities honed. But he would rather be bass fishing than working on his game. He probably has gone further and made more money than most just on sheer raw ability. It's a shame, but that's his choice. He has tremendous power and an obviously gifted batter's eye.

Wish he loved the game of baseball as much as fishing.

Mutaman
07-28-2010, 10:04 PM
I believe Dunn has never started a season with a team that finished with a winning record. Only when he was traded to the D-Backs did he finish the season with a team with a winning record. And then they failed to make the playoffs, the whole reason they obtained him.

Kinda says it all.

If he was a winner. A winning team would want him. These scouts and execs do their homework. Dunn is not a winner.


Bingo! Even when he went to Arizona, they were 4 games over .500 when he got there and played under .500 the rest of the way. I'm sure Adam is a nice guy, but he's a one dimensional player and you don't win with one dimensional players. Moving him out of here was the first big step to recovery.

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 10:04 PM
I have to agree with Vottomatic, he's never even played on a team with a winning record, let alone playoffs. He's also never lead the league in HRs for a year, although I don't know what that says.

:rolleyes:

Team's ERA (per year):
'01 Reds: 4.77 Team ERA (24th)
'02 Reds: 4.27 Team ERA (17th)
'03 Reds: 5.07 Team ERA (29th)
'04 Reds: 5.19 Team ERA (29th)
'05 Reds: 5.15 Team ERA (28th)
'06 Reds: 4.51 Team ERA (14th)
'07 Reds: 4.94 Team ERA (28th)
'08 Reds: 4.55 Team ERA (23rd)*
'09 Nats: 5.00 Team ERA (28th)
'10 Nats: 4.17 Team ERA (20th)

Now after looking that, people are going to give Dunn a bad rap because he didn't go to the playoffs? Comical. Simply comical.

Reds
07-28-2010, 10:17 PM
:rolleyes:

Team's ERA (per year):
'01 Reds: 4.77 Team ERA (24th)
'02 Reds: 4.27 Team ERA (17th)
'03 Reds: 5.07 Team ERA (29th)
'04 Reds: 5.19 Team ERA (29th)
'05 Reds: 5.15 Team ERA (28th)
'06 Reds: 4.51 Team ERA (14th)
'07 Reds: 4.94 Team ERA (28th)
'08 Reds: 4.55 Team ERA (23rd)*
'09 Nats: 5.00 Team ERA (28th)
'10 Nats: 4.17 Team ERA (20th)

Now after looking that, people are going to give Dunn a bad rap because he didn't go to the playoffs? Comical. Simply comical.

I didn't say the bad rap was deserved. Anyone called a donkey won't always get great press lol.

Mutaman
07-28-2010, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=BringDownMugabe;2178545]Albert Pujols couldn't lead the '01-'08 Reds or '09-'10 Nats to the playoffs. QUOTE]


At the end of July 2006, the Reds were battling the Cardinals for the division title. Compare what Pujois and Dunn did over the last two months of that season and the difference it made to one team winning the World championship and one team going fishing.

Sept 2006: Pujois: .367 BA 9 HR 27 RBI
Dunn : 157 BA 2 HR 5 RBI

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 11:02 PM
[QUOTE=BringDownMugabe;2178545]Albert Pujols couldn't lead the '01-'08 Reds or '09-'10 Nats to the playoffs. QUOTE]


At the end of July 2006, the Reds were battling the Cardinals for the division title. Compare what Pujois and Dunn did over the last two months of that season and the difference it made to one team winning the World championship and one team going fishing.

Sept 2006: Pujois: .367 BA 9 HR 27 RBI
Dunn : 157 BA 2 HR 5 RBI

That's all you got, one half of a season? And than you preclude that the difference between Dunn and Pujols is winning the World Series and the other not making the playoffs? Interesting logic...damn, I wish Adam Dunn threw better during that stretch to launch us into the World Series.

Vottomatic
07-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Adam Dunn is slightly better than Dave Kingman, frankly.

Kingspoint
07-28-2010, 11:20 PM
Think what his RBI's would be with this lineup and how we get on base.

They wouldn't be any more than any other year because our Top 2 hitters don't get on base.

Hondo
07-28-2010, 11:24 PM
Well I wish Adam Dunn was never traded for all those great players the Reds got from Arizona...

Kingspoint
07-28-2010, 11:25 PM
Well I wish Adam Dunn was never traded for all those great players the Reds got from Arizona...


And, who would you kick off the team so that we could pay for Dunn (the Difference between his and Gomes' salary)?

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 11:26 PM
Adam Dunn is slightly better than Dave Kingman, frankly.

:rolleyes:

No, not even considerably.

Adam Dunn: .250/.382/.523/.905
Dave Kingman: .236/.302/.478/.780

That's like saying this year Ryan Zimmerman is slightly better than Hunter Pence.

BigJohn
07-28-2010, 11:29 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AsBRdyapWkaDT.ajWJZaiDeFCLcF?year =career&type=Batting


Just look at what he has done in his career with runners in scoring position.

That and he was terrible in the of!

BringDownMugabe
07-28-2010, 11:41 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AsBRdyapWkaDT.ajWJZaiDeFCLcF?year =career&type=Batting


Just look at what he has done in his career with runners in scoring position.

That and he was terrible in the of!

Yeah, an OPS of nearly .900 -- what a horrible hitter! :rolleyes:

First it was the K's, than the "low" BA, and now it's he "can't hit" with RISP. What's next, Dunn can't hit to the opposite field? Dunn weighs too much? He endorses the wrong shoe brand?

Mutaman
07-28-2010, 11:46 PM
[QUOTE=Mutaman;2178699]

That's all you got, one half of a season? And than you preclude that the difference between Dunn and Pujols is winning the World Series and the other not making the playoffs? Interesting logic...damn, I wish Adam Dunn threw better during that stretch to launch us into the World Series.

Actually except for Harang, a player who reminds me a lot of Dunn, the pitching wasn't bad down that stretch. Bronson was great.

And I'm not "precluding" anything. Just stating facts.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 02:08 AM
This team Should have kept Dunn... I am sorry for you Micah Owings DIE HARDS but that Trade Sucked.

GIDP
07-29-2010, 02:10 AM
Dunn playing LF wasnt worth the money.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 02:13 AM
The reason people got on Dunn was because of all of the strikeouts and because of his demeanor. Fans can't stand to see strikeouts. This is a major reason people are on Stubbs this year and Bruce for the past couple of years.

The other reason people got fed up with Dunn is because he just didn't look like he gave a damn. Maybe that was just a result of being a big oaf and he couldn't help it. I think he probably did care, he just never looked like he did.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 02:32 AM
The reason people got on Dunn was because of all of the strikeouts and because of his demeanor. Fans can't stand to see strikeouts. This is a major reason people are on Stubbs this year and Bruce for the past couple of years.

The other reason people got fed up with Dunn is because he just didn't look like he gave a damn. Maybe that was just a result of being a big oaf and he couldn't help it. I think he probably did care, he just never looked like he did.

I cared that he hit 40 Homers, Scored 100, and Drove in 100

I don't care if he didn't look like he cared about any of it.

I liked his Production, and I don't care if any of you care more or less about caring about Adam Dunn caring about striking out or not caring about striking out!

:cool:

Krawhitham
07-29-2010, 03:11 AM
and it's the K that is overrated, not the HR.

that is the dumbest thing I've ever read on RedsZone

bounty37h
07-29-2010, 10:41 AM
I keep reading where people don't like Adam Dunn because he was lazy, or didn't do this or didn't do that. For the life of me I would love to know where people got this view. It's true Dunn is not a 5 tools type of guy, but his numbers at the plate are beyond question. I am not advocating obtaining he via trade as I would rather have Gomes in RF right now, but the hate that Dunn gets is really unfair.

I think those that liked him overplayed it and annoyed the ones who didn't/don't, and vice versa, so each "side" continued to get worse and worse defending thier position of why Dunn is great, or why Dunn stinks. I personally dont feel he was as bad as many make him out to be, or as good as the others think either.

flash
07-29-2010, 10:58 AM
The Pujohs thing just doesn't hold water. Dunn played with Griffey the entire time he was in Cincinnati and the two never won despite carrying one-third of the club salary. He and Griffey never went the opposite way. It was all pull, pull, pull.

Aside from that Dunn does get a bad rap. Look at some of the overated guys he played with and you get a sense of why he failed.

Kearns- nearly out of baseball. the last time I checked he was batting .250 for Cleveland. I think they are in the cellar. He nearly got kicked off the Nationals.

Sean Casey- great hitter, but tremendously slow. Out of baseball at a relatively young age.

Felipe Lopez- Another bust, although he has come back some under LaRussa's tutulege.

Freel- crazy doesn't begin to describe him. I don't even think he is playing now.

EE- way overated, had to make another trip to the minors this year.

Say what you want. Since Griffey and Dunn left the team has played over .500 something they never could accomplish before they left.

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 11:15 AM
With runners in scoring position he was most likely to strike out or walk. Very frustrating and was terrible in the OF, Would never even talk about moving to first. I still would love to see Dunn at 1b and Joey in LF. Pretty sure votto is a much better fielder that the dunkey! The Dunn trade was always a salary dump!

Griffey012
07-29-2010, 11:22 AM
This team Should have kept Dunn... I am sorry for you Micah Owings DIE HARDS but that Trade Sucked.

Newsflash, we weren't resigning Dunn and weren't chancing offering arbitration to try and get draft pick returns. We got what we could out of him and saved 2 months worth of his salary.

Griffey012
07-29-2010, 11:24 AM
I think those that liked him overplayed it and annoyed the ones who didn't/don't, and vice versa, so each "side" continued to get worse and worse defending thier position of why Dunn is great, or why Dunn stinks. I personally dont feel he was as bad as many make him out to be, or as good as the others think either.

This is a very good assessment. To this day I still get tired of hearing how great he is because he gets 40 hr's 100 runs and 100 rbi, and also get tired of hearing about how bad he is because he is slow and strikes out a lot.

This thread has made me a bit tired :rolleyes:

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 01:21 PM
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/1/30/742156/player-value-graphs-a-look



http://perpetualpost.com/b/?p=429


Adam Dunn suffers from a curious ailment – namely that he is both underrated by many traditional baseball fans, but simultaneously overrated by many sabermetric fans of the game. Traditional fans often find themselves disgusted with Dunn’s penchant for strikeouts (Dunn set the record for strikeouts in a season in 2004, and holds two of the top six seasons overall). Those strikeouts have led Dunn to a meager .247 in his seven full seasons in the majors, never topping .266, and going so low as .215. At the same time, because the Reds were never a top OBP team, Dunn has never had the kind of 130+ RBI season that Ryan Howard is able to. The result is a poor batting average, and seemingly insufficient pop to really be worth it.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 03:35 PM
Newsflash, we weren't resigning Dunn and weren't chancing offering arbitration to try and get draft pick returns. We got what we could out of him and saved 2 months worth of his salary.

Newsflash to you. The draft picks would have been better than what the Reds got in that deal. He would have turned down arbitration for sure.

Also, he signed for 10 Million a Year with the Nationals. Everyone on here thought he would get 14-15 Million.

@10 Mill, he would have been worth it.

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 03:41 PM
$12million
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4808

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 03:44 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/294266-nationals-need-to-extend-dunns-contract-before-salaries-go-crazy-again

Hondo
07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
$12million
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4808

I love your pasting ability, but the average of 2 seasons was 10 Million...

$8 for 2009 and $12 for 2010

Griffey012
07-29-2010, 03:56 PM
Newsflash to you. The draft picks would have been better than what the Reds got in that deal. He would have turned down arbitration for sure.

Also, he signed for 10 Million a Year with the Nationals. Everyone on here thought he would get 14-15 Million.

@10 Mill, he would have been worth it.

The Reds were afraid he would accept arbitration and take his 10-12 million he would have won. Then tried the FA pool again the following season. He would have probably taken arbitration as Washington was really the only team going after him hard, and hoped for a better FA market the next season.

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 04:00 PM
then why didn't you just say 20 millionfor2years? HA!!

Had he moved to1b 4 years ago he would still be a RED. That is the answer to the whole question. He was too bad defensively for the price! Not sure if Votto would still be a Red though, so I am glad Dunn was shipped.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 04:02 PM
The Reds were afraid he would accept arbitration and take his 10-12 million he would have won. Then tried the FA pool again the following season. He would have probably taken arbitration as Washington was really the only team going after him hard, and hoped for a better FA market the next season.

Oh well... he wouldn't have taken arbitration from the Reds. I don't know this for a fact but Adam Dunn would have surely declined it hoping to get more on the open market...

texasdave
07-29-2010, 04:02 PM
The Reds were afraid he would accept arbitration and take his 10-12 million he would have won. Then tried the FA pool again the following season. He would have probably taken arbitration as Washington was really the only team going after him hard, and hoped for a better FA market the next season.

Adam Dunn made 13 million in 2008. If the Reds offered arbitration after the season and he accepted he would have made at least 15 million I would imagine. After another 40 HR/100 RBI season I can't see him being awarded less than 13 million.

Hey Meat
07-29-2010, 04:05 PM
I love Dunn, don't really think he deserves all of the bad press, but some of if comes from; poor defense, strikeouts and I remember one year, think it was his last where he went over half of the season without a sacrifice fly.

BigJohn
07-29-2010, 04:28 PM
and the CHAIRS!!!!!!!!

Hondo
07-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I love Dunn, don't really think he deserves all of the bad press, but some of if comes from; poor defense, strikeouts and I remember one year, think it was his last where he went over half of the season without a sacrifice fly.

Probably because there was Nobody on 3rd base for him to Sacrifice in.

Vottomatic
07-29-2010, 05:01 PM
Some of it comes from just being overrated.

DocRed
07-29-2010, 11:53 PM
Career .231 batter with RISP......

Career .251 ave....who hits 20 points lower with RISP??

sivman17
07-30-2010, 12:07 AM
Some of it comes from him being a medicore baseball player

Griffey012
07-30-2010, 12:20 AM
Simplest way to describe Adam Dunn...he is what he is

BigJohn
07-30-2010, 12:35 AM
Look at his RISP this year even with his higherBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AuAtYWwwt3mpEJWIyx4g3GmFCLcF?year =2010&type=Batting

sivman17
07-30-2010, 12:49 AM
Look at his RISP this year even with his higherBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AuAtYWwwt3mpEJWIyx4g3GmFCLcF?year =2010&type=Batting

LOL... and with RISP and 2 outs he bats a whopping .093. good job, donkey :thumbdown

BLEEDS
07-30-2010, 12:50 AM
I love Dunn, don't really think he deserves all of the bad press, but some of if comes from; poor defense, strikeouts and I remember one year, think it was his last where he went over half of the season without a sacrifice fly.

Most of his sacrifice fly attempts ended up in the seats...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-30-2010, 12:51 AM
that is the dumbest thing I've ever read on RedsZone

You think HR's are overrated and K's are important?

You are banished to the Sundeck for all of eternity, might as well start unpacking...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

sivman17
07-30-2010, 12:54 AM
I love Dunn, don't really think he deserves all of the bad press, but some of if comes from; poor defense, strikeouts and I remember one year, think it was his last where he went over half of the season without a sacrifice fly.

It was muuuch longer than half the season. I don't remember exactly what season it was, but I know it was a looong time. They started printing "sacrifice fly" on his bats because he had gone so long without a sac fly. No matter how much power the guy has, he will always be labeled as a guy who is not clutch (rightfully so).

texasdave
07-30-2010, 01:05 AM
Start Date:05/30/2003
End Date:07/21/2003
Sort by: RBI PCTRunners On
Descending
Ascending
Minimum Runners On Base:

Player Runners On Runs Batted In Home Runs RBI Pct.
Adam Dunn 89 7 7 .00


This is one of the most amazing stats I have ever seen and, I believe, when Marty began to sour on Adam Dunn. From May 30, 2003 until July 21, 2003 Adam Dunn came to the plate with a total of 89 men on base and knocked in exactly none of them. Zero. Nada. This was a span of 43 games, of which he started 41. He did hit 7 solo home runs during that quarter of a season stretch. That is an incomprehensible statistic. And when Marty soured on Dunn he spread the word. So this may well have been the genesis of his bad rap.
I, personally, thought he caught too much flak. But not all of it was undeserved. He had some great strengths as a player, but also some glaring weaknesses.

sivman17
07-30-2010, 01:14 AM
Start Date:05/30/2003
End Date:07/21/2003
Sort by: RBI PCTRunners On
Descending
Ascending
Minimum Runners On Base:

Player Runners On Runs Batted In Home Runs RBI Pct.
Adam Dunn 89 7 7 .00


This is one of the most amazing stats I have ever seen and, I believe, when Marty began to sour on Adam Dunn. From May 30, 2003 until July 21, 2003 Adam Dunn came to the plate with a total of 89 men on base and knocked in exactly none of them. Zero. Nada. This was a span of 43 games, of which he started 41. He did hit 7 solo home runs during that quarter of a season stretch. That is an incomprehensible statistic. And when Marty soured on Dunn he spread the word. So this may well have been the genesis of his bad rap.
I, personally, thought he caught too much flak. But not all of it was undeserved. He had some great strengths as a player, but also some glaring weaknesses.

Wow... that stat pretty much sums up his career, especially as a Red.

He was always known as the guy that would hit the solo HR when the game was out of reach... the Reds were up 8-1, or losing 9-0, etc. It seemed like his HRs were rarely meaningful, and he is the reason why I started thinking HR numbers was overrated. At the end of the season, it's not how many you hit, but when you hit them. 40 meaningless HRs is not nearly as helpful as 20 meaningful ones. Not saying he never hit a HR that helped the team win, but the VAST majority of his HRs were when no one was on base and the game was already decided.

DocRed
07-30-2010, 11:09 AM
Start Date:05/30/2003
End Date:07/21/2003
Sort by: RBI PCTRunners On
Descending
Ascending
Minimum Runners On Base:

Player Runners On Runs Batted In Home Runs RBI Pct.
Adam Dunn 89 7 7 .00


This is one of the most amazing stats I have ever seen and, I believe, when Marty began to sour on Adam Dunn. From May 30, 2003 until July 21, 2003 Adam Dunn came to the plate with a total of 89 men on base and knocked in exactly none of them. Zero. Nada. This was a span of 43 games, of which he started 41. He did hit 7 solo home runs during that quarter of a season stretch. That is an incomprehensible statistic. And when Marty soured on Dunn he spread the word. So this may well have been the genesis of his bad rap.
I, personally, thought he caught too much flak. But not all of it was undeserved. He had some great strengths as a player, but also some glaring weaknesses.

LOL, wow that is horrible if true. A blind man swinging a bat would probably do better than that.

Vottomatic
07-30-2010, 05:45 PM
Dunn is what he is. Mediocre.

He is Medi-Ogre.

DocRed
07-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Is there any stats site that tracks percentage of HR that are solo shots?

BigJohn
07-31-2010, 03:30 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AiclhRCzVq8RCewRS9WSxk.FCLcF?year =career&type=Batting


just look how many hr he has with bases empty(193) and man on base(147)

Hondo
07-31-2010, 06:20 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6763/situational;_ylt=AiclhRCzVq8RCewRS9WSxk.FCLcF?year =career&type=Batting


just look how many hr he has with bases empty(193) and man on base(147)

Dude. That is 340 Bombs I wish we still had in the lineup.

BigJohn
07-31-2010, 10:27 AM
You missed the point. About 200 of them were meaningless! And he is TERRIBLE on defense!

http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2008/12/cubs_adam_dunn.php

And he can't hit lefties!

BringDownMugabe
07-31-2010, 01:32 PM
You missed the point. About 200 of them were meaningless! And he is TERRIBLE on defense!

http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2008/12/cubs_adam_dunn.php

And he can't hit lefties!

Meaningless homerun? That's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one... :rolleyes: