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Brutus
07-28-2010, 05:31 PM
I think it's time to start considering this possibility for Joey Votto.

He's got a .322 batting average. In real time, that is tied for the league lead with Rafael Furcal.

He leads the league in homers by two, with 26, over Prince and Mark Reynolds.

He now has 70 RBIs, tied for second with Albert Pujols and the now injured Corey Hart. He's 11 behind the leader Ryan Howard.

If he can get hot and start knocking in runs, this is a real, honest-to-goodness triple-crown chase.

11larkin11
07-28-2010, 05:34 PM
Mainly for Joey, but we'll keep track of former Red Josh Hamilton and Miggy as well.

As of 5:30 ET 7/28/10 (Reds game over, Tiger/Rangers yet to play).

NL

Joey Votto
RBI: 70 (T-2nd)
---Leader Howard 81
HR: 26 (1st)
---2nd-Fielder/Reynolds 24
AVG: .322 (T-1st)
---T-1st Furcal .322


AL

Josh Hamilton
RBI: 74 (6th)
---Leader Cabrera 88
HR: 23 (3rd)
---Leader Bautista 30
AVG: .358 (1st)
---2nd Cabrera .349

Miguel Cabrera
RBI: 88 (1st)
---2nd A-Rod 81
HR: 24 (2nd)
---Leader Bautista 30
AVG: .349 (2nd)
---Leader Hamilton .358

REDblooded
07-28-2010, 06:54 PM
Josh Hamilton? Why would we talk about him here? This board only misses Adam Dunn...

Rojo
07-28-2010, 08:06 PM
If he can get hot and start knocking in runs, this is a real, honest-to-goodness triple-crown chase.

Of if someone ahead of him gets hot.

Tornon
07-28-2010, 08:16 PM
I have a tough time seeing Joey winning the RBI crown.. Our #1/#2 hitters don't seem to get on as much as Philly's #1/#2/#3 hitters

dougdirt
07-28-2010, 08:17 PM
I just don't see it for Votto. Tough for him to get the RBI title with a combined .315 OBP (honestly just guessed here) from the two guys in front of him.

Cyclone792
07-28-2010, 08:36 PM
For Votto to lead the league in RBIs, Phillips will have to continue having a solid year and Orlando Cabrera will have to morph into Barry Larkin. That's the flaw with RBIs, but we've known that for 20 years. Still, it's fun to follow nonetheless.

Now the NL MVP, well, that's Votto right now, IMO.

11larkin11
07-28-2010, 08:42 PM
But, the Reds 8 and 9 hitters are WAY better at getting on base than other teams in the league.

Ghosts of 1990
07-28-2010, 08:54 PM
I think Votto wins the batting crown (all I care about him winning) wins the home run title, and falls about 15 RBI short of Howard due to O-Cab hitting 2nd

Brutus
07-28-2010, 09:08 PM
Werth could still be traded and Victorino just made a trip to the DL. There's a chance Howard's RBI opportunities may be fewer and further between down the stretch.

Tornon
07-28-2010, 09:35 PM
Werth could still be traded and Victorino just made a trip to the DL. There's a chance Howard's RBI opportunities may be fewer and further between down the stretch.

Werth usually bats behind Howard though, doesn't he? And Rollins has been down, you have to figure he'll get hot somewhat and Utley will be coming back eventually.. I just don't like the feel of it for Joey

Brutus
07-28-2010, 09:35 PM
Werth usually bats behind Howard though, doesn't he? And Rollins has been down, you have to figure he'll get hot somewhat and Utley will be coming back eventually.. I just don't like the feel of it for Joey

Yes he does, but my point is that it's a lot easier to pitch to Howard when you still have to contend with Werth. If he gets traded, a lot of teams will start pitching around Howard.

Homer Bailey
07-29-2010, 02:03 PM
Not trying to turn this into a Volquez/Hamilton debate, but my buddy texted me this today, and it's the first time I've really thought about this.

Imagine this lineup:

Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Hamilton LF
Stubbs CF
Hanigan/Hernandez C
Cabrera SS
Pitcher

All at least average bats (other than OC), and many WELL above average. All at least average defenders, and many WELL above average. What a sick lineup that would be.

(Again, please don't make this about the trade. Just dream for a second).

BCubb2003
07-29-2010, 08:43 PM
This is an impressive sight:

http://twitpic.com/29s726

Maybe he's going for the Quintuple Crown. If we can only do something about that team-dependent stat.

VR
07-29-2010, 09:03 PM
Not trying to turn this into a Volquez/Hamilton debate, but my buddy texted me this today, and it's the first time I've really thought about this.

Imagine this lineup:

Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Hamilton LF
Stubbs CF
Hanigan/Hernandez C
Cabrera SS
Pitcher

All at least average bats (other than OC), and many WELL above average. All at least average defenders, and many WELL above average. What a sick lineup that would be.

(Again, please don't make this about the trade. Just dream for a second).

It's been floated on here for about 2 months now. It makes so much sense....not sure if Dusty has it in him to drop OCab to #8 for a 'kid'

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2010, 10:52 AM
Just saw a stat:

Joey Votto has had 244 runners on base for him, while Ryan Howard has had 316. There is the disparity in the RBI stat.

nate
07-30-2010, 10:59 AM
Just saw a stat:

Joey Votto has had 244 runners on base for him, while Ryan Howard has had 316. There is the disparity in the RBI stat.

That's why I prefer OBI% (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=422819) to RBI.

Howard and Votto are pretty much neck and neck in terms of the percentage of others they drive in.

Brutus
07-31-2010, 05:38 PM
Mid-game update:

Votto 1st in BA (.326) to Furcal (.321), 1st in HR (27) to a 3-way tie for 2nd (24) and 3rd in RBI (72) to Howard's 81.

mth123
07-31-2010, 05:40 PM
Mid-game update:

Votto 1st in BA (.326) to Furcal (.321), 1st in HR (27) to a 3-way tie for 2nd (24) and 3rd in RBI (72) to Howard's 81.

Votto first in Ave/OBP/Slg. The real triple crown in my book. Ist in HR to boot.

RedsManRick
07-31-2010, 05:44 PM
Orlando Cabrera could be the reason Votto doesn't win the triple crown...

Brutus
07-31-2010, 05:46 PM
Orlando Cabrera could be the reason Votto doesn't win the triple crown...

Very true. If Votto had someone in front of him getting on base at a .350 clip, he'd be probably right in line with Howard right now.

CTA513
08-01-2010, 02:05 PM
According to gameday Howard left todays game with a ankle injury so Votto could pass him if Howard has to miss some significant time.

RedsMan3203
08-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Update on Howard.


Ryan Howard (ankle) hopes to play in a few days.
Phillies manager Charlie Manuel said he doesn't believe Howard will require a stint on the DL. Howard left Sunday's game in the first inning after jamming his left ankle while sliding back into second base. X-rays on Ryan Howard's left ankle and right elbow were negative. The X-rays on his elbow were for precautionary reasons, because he was hit by a pitch. It looks like Howard will miss at least the first half of this upcoming scoring period, so keep that in mind while making your fantasy lineup

Degenerate39
08-03-2010, 07:21 PM
Howard is on the DL

SMcGavin
08-03-2010, 07:26 PM
But, the Reds 8 and 9 hitters are WAY better at getting on base than other teams in the league.

Great point. Here's a crazy stat:

Reds hitting in #1 slot: .281 OBP
Reds hitting in #8 slot: .351 OBP
Reds hitting in #9 slot: .281 OBP

I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.

TRF
08-04-2010, 05:37 PM
With BP at leadoff and now it looks like Heisey batting 2nd Its possible. With Howard on the DL, th competition is Pujols, Hart and Wright. All four, including Votto, could pass Howard before he comes off the DL.

But I really hop he isn't thinking about it too much. I'd rather he focus on getting the team into the playoffs.

Brutus
08-22-2010, 07:22 PM
AL

Miguel Cabrera 2nd in BA, t2nd in HR and 1st in RBI. Problem for him is he's .16 behind Hamilton in BA and a distant 7 homers behind Jose Bautista.

NL

Votto is 1st in BA (.323), 3rd in HR (29, 3 behind Pujols) and 2nd in RBI (86, 3 behind Pujols). So Votto is 3 solo jacks away from being a possible triple crown guy.

Pujols is 4th in BA (.316), 1st in HR (32) and 1st in RBI (89).

Good old-fashioned triple-crown, MVP, playoff chase going on between these two.

Ghosts of 1990
08-22-2010, 07:33 PM
AL

Miguel Cabrera 2nd in BA, t2nd in HR and 1st in RBI. Problem for him is he's .16 behind Hamilton in BA and a distant 7 homers behind Jose Bautista.

NL

Votto is 1st in BA (.323), 3rd in HR (29, 3 behind Pujols) and 2nd in RBI (86, 3 behind Pujols). So Votto is 3 solo jacks away from being a possible triple crown guy.

Pujols is 4th in BA (.316), 1st in HR (32) and 1st in RBI (89).

Good old-fashioned triple-crown, MVP, playoff chase going on between these two.

Wow he's close.

A big week could do it.

Brutus
08-25-2010, 08:48 PM
Update (through 6 innings in Pittsburgh)

Votto: .326-31-90 | .423/.603/1.026
Pujols: .320-33-92 | .412/.599/1.011

Both viable triple crown candidates.

The issue to watch is if Omar Infante continues hitting (.347) and gets to BA qualification (502 PAs). He has about 343 right now with 35 games remaining. He's now the starter for the Braves at 2nd.

buckeyenut
08-25-2010, 09:26 PM
Pujols has been on fire. It is going to be tough for Votto to get this done. But what a fabulous season regardless.

VR
08-25-2010, 09:31 PM
BTP brought up a great point regarding Infante that could spoil either of their bids. Pujols's Cards have also played 3 less games (after tonight...Pujols is 0-4 so far, should end that way)

TeamBoone
08-25-2010, 10:02 PM
There's a poll on MLB.com as to who has the better chance to win the triple crown... Pujols or Votto. Pujols is winning by a substantial margin.

VR
08-25-2010, 11:07 PM
There's a poll on MLB.com as to who has the better chance to win the triple crown... Pujols or Votto. Pujols is winning by a substantial margin.

The good news is no one w/ a real vote is going to MLB.com.

It's won with a Central title, and AT LEAST one leg of the triple crown.

A triple crown will win it....even if the team falls into 3rd place.

WebScorpion
08-26-2010, 12:41 AM
The good news is no one w/ a real vote is going to MLB.com.

It's won with a Central title, and AT LEAST one leg of the triple crown.

A triple crown will win it....even if the team falls into 3rd place.
Uuuuuhh.... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Are you talking about the Triple Crown or the MVP? Because a Triple Crown will CERTAINLY win a Triple Crown. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

By my rudimentary calculation Infante will fall quite a few PAs short of qualifying for the batting title. He'd have to average over 4.5 PAs per game for the remaining 35 games. I think Joey has the better chance...it seems easier to jack up your HR and RBI titles with a short hot streak than your batting average. JMO. :D

Brutus
08-26-2010, 12:47 AM
Uuuuuhh.... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Are you talking about the Triple Crown or the MVP? Because a Triple Crown will CERTAINLY win a Triple Crown. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

By my rudimentary calculation Infante will fall quite a few PAs short of qualifying for the batting title. He'd have to average over 4.5 PAs per game for the remaining 35 games. I think Joey has the better chance...it seems easier to jack up your HR and RBI titles with a short hot streak than your batting average. JMO. :D

He's been batting leadoff for them. Right now, Atlanta's leadoff hitters are averaging 4.66 PAs per game. With 35 games remaining, that gets him about 163 more plate appearances this season, assuming health or not being lowered in the order. With 342 PAs under his belt, that puts him at 505 PAs or 3 above the requisite 502 for qualification.

Thing is, even if he's short by a few PAs, he wins the batting title if those additional PAs short of the mark, counted as hitless at-bats, would still beat out the second-place batter. So if he gets to 495, but adding 7 hitless at-bats keeps him first in batting average, he still wins.

It's going to be very close. Of course, even if he gets to 502, he still has to hang on to 20 BA points or so. There's no guarantee that would happen.

WebScorpion
08-26-2010, 01:28 AM
Thing is, even if he's short by a few PAs, he wins the batting title if those additional PAs short of the mark, counted as hitless at-bats, would still beat out the second-place batter. So if he gets to 495, but adding 7 hitless at-bats keeps him first in batting average, he still wins.


Really?!? I did not know this. :eek: Huh...you learn something new every day. Thanks!

Brutus
08-26-2010, 01:39 AM
Really?!? I did not know this. :eek: Huh...you learn something new every day. Thanks!

Yessir.

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/08/23/infante-is-nl-player-of-the-week-batting-titles-possible/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog


Even if he were rested or missed a handful of games and finish with 470-480 plate appearances, he could still win the batting title provided he keeps his average significantly higher than the other leaders.

A rule allows for a shortage of plate appearances (fewer than 502) to be made up as hitless at-bats for a player whose average would contend for the batting title. So if Infante were to hit .340 in 480 plate appearances, for statistical purposes an 0-for-22 could be added to his totals and his average adjusted down.

Under such a scenario, he could win the batting title if he continues his sizzling pace, or even if he cools off some.

Brutus
08-27-2010, 04:07 PM
Here's to Joey Votto adding this weekend to his career .281-16-38 career line against the Cubs in 189 plate appearances. Yes, 16 homers in 189 PAs.

HeatherC1212
08-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Joey Votto = Cub Killer :KoolAid: :thumbup:

VR
08-27-2010, 07:12 PM
Uuuuuhh.... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Are you talking about the Triple Crown or the MVP? Because a Triple Crown will CERTAINLY win a Triple Crown.

MVP.

Yes....a triple crown gets you an MVP, no matter where your team finishes

If production for Votto and Pujols remains fairly equal.....a Central title should get you an MVP, as long as the other player doesn't win the triple crown, hence, the need to lead at least one leg of the triple crown.

HeatherC1212
08-29-2010, 12:51 AM
So help me if Omar freaking Infante actually gets enough plate appearances to screw up the entire NL Triple Crown chase right at the end of the year. :thumbdown As a baseball fan in general, not just a Reds fan rooting for Joey, that just annoys the heck out of me that he may squeak in there and get just enough PAs to win the batting title and mess up a potential TC. I think that the amount of PAs should be way high enough that a part time player really can't win it (that may just be my opinion though). The Reds making the post season would definitely help make it not as annoying but it would still bug me a little. It's kind of like a horse coming out of nowhere to win the Belmont when another one won both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness to set up their chance at the Triple Crown (and I hope I have that race order right, LOL). :eek:

Homer Bailey
08-29-2010, 12:56 AM
So help me if Omar freaking Infante actually gets enough plate appearances to screw up the entire NL Triple Crown chase right at the end of the year. :thumbdown As a baseball fan in general, not just a Reds fan rooting for Joey, that just annoys the heck out of me that he may squeak in there and get just enough PAs to win the batting title and mess up a potential TC. I think that the amount of PAs should be way high enough that a part time player really can't win it (that may just be my opinion though). The Reds making the post season would definitely help make it not as annoying but it would still bug me a little. It's kind of like a horse coming out of nowhere to win the Belmont when another one won both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness to set up their chance at the Triple Crown (and I hope I have that race order right, LOL). :eek:

To get 500 PA's and lead the league in BA should be awarded. Not to mention that if he doesn't get there, you can tack on the number of at bats he would need to qualify, and consider them all hitless at bats, he would still win the title. As much as I'd love to see Joey win it, it's not like Infante hasn't earned it.

3.1 PA's per game is hardly a "part time" player.

HeatherC1212
08-29-2010, 01:06 AM
To get 500 PA's and lead the league in BA should be awarded. Not to mention that if he doesn't get there, you can tack on the number of at bats he would need to qualify, and consider them all hitless at bats, he would still win the title. As much as I'd love to see Joey win it, it's not like Infante hasn't earned it.

3.1 PA's per game is hardly a "part time" player.

IIRC, he's only getting the at bats now because of Chipper's injury. I don't think he'd be playing as much if that hadn't happened a few weeks ago. I understand that the PAs are set and all and I'm not saying he wouldn't deserve it happens but it still annoys me. Sorry, LOL :p: :laugh:

Homer Bailey
08-29-2010, 01:09 AM
IIRC, he's only getting the at bats now because of Chipper's injury. I don't think he'd be playing as much if that hadn't happened a few weeks ago. I understand that the PAs are set and all and I'm not saying he wouldn't deserve it happens but it still annoys me. Sorry, LOL :p: :laugh:

Even if he's only getting at bats because of Chippers injury, if he has 500 PA's and hits .350ish, I think he totally deserves the batting title. Just my opinion.

RedsBaron
08-29-2010, 07:39 AM
MVP.

Yes....a triple crown gets you an MVP, no matter where your team finishes

If production for Votto and Pujols remains fairly equal.....a Central title should get you an MVP, as long as the other player doesn't win the triple crown, hence, the need to lead at least one leg of the triple crown.
While I agree that the triple crown winner (if there is one) will probably win the MVP, that hasn't always been the case. Chuck Klein in 1933, Lou Gehrig in 1934 and Ted Williams in both 1942 and 1947 won triple crowns without also being named MVP.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Infante is currently at .342. The Braves have been hitting a bump lately. Even if he doesn't come down all the way below Votto, it's possible he's short just enough at-bats that his average would be knocked off by the hittless difference.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 04:37 PM
Joey Votto is now .325-32-95

He's tied with Carlos Gonzalez at .325 (Omar Infante was pulled today in the 8th by the Braves, going 0-3 in the game. I'm not sure if it was injury related or just a double-switch as I wasn't watching the game. However, his average in real time is .341).

He's 3 homers behind Pujols, tied for 2nd with Dunn.

He's 2 RBIs behind Pujols in second place.

It should be noted that Gonzalez is also making this a possible 3-man Triple Crown chase.

He's at .325-28-87. The way he and the Rockies are playing, he could be formidable competition.

oneupper
08-29-2010, 04:39 PM
Joey Votto is now .325-32-95

He's tied with Carlos Gonzalez at .325 (Omar Infante was pulled today in the 8th by the Braves, going 0-3 in the game. I'm not sure if it was injury related or just a double-switch as I wasn't watching the game. However, his average in real time is .341).

He's 3 homers behind Pujols, tied for 2nd with Dunn.

He's 2 RBIs behind Pujols in second place.

It should be noted that Gonzalez is also making this a possible 3-man Triple Crown chase.

He's at .325-28-87. The way he and the Rockies are playing, he could be formidable competition.

As long as Pujols DOESN'T win it, I'm fine.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Gonzo hit another dinger.

He's now .327-29-89. Man... these three are on fire...

Gonzo: .327-29-89
Votto: .325-32-93
Pujols: .320-35-95