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View Full Version : Dickerson continues to destroy



ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 09:02 PM
He's up to a .444 average at Louisville, with a .667 OBP. I think he needs to be brought up soon, made starting CF, and batting leadoff IMMEDIATELY. I have no idea what date his rehab is up, but it's gotta be coming up soon.

A lineup of this down the stretch would just kick ass, but I'm getting my hopes up for nothing probably:

1) Dickerson
2) Phillips
3) Votto
4) Rolen
5) Hernandez/Hanigan
6) Gomes
7) Bruce
8) Cabrera

Bench: Stubbs, Heisey, Hanigan/Hernandez, Cairo, Janish

GIDP
07-28-2010, 09:03 PM
I would hope a 28 year old would be able to destroy AAA pitching.

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 09:06 PM
I would hope a 28 year old would be able to destroy AAA pitching.

There's plenty of players who don't who are older. The guy can be a huge asset down the stretch.

GIDP
07-28-2010, 09:09 PM
There's plenty of players who don't who are older. The guy can be a huge asset down the stretch.

Until he gets injured again.

mlh1981
07-28-2010, 09:45 PM
World Series walkoff slam.

Vottomatic
07-28-2010, 09:55 PM
There's plenty of players who don't who are older. The guy can be a huge asset down the stretch.

....if he continues to hit. My cautionary advice would be to remember how well Volquez was doing before being brought up and then the less than spectacular results since.

I would love nothing more than for Dickerson to come up and tear the cover off the ball. It would solve one of my biggest complaints, IF DUSTY WOULD BAT HIM LEADOFF and move OCab to 7th in the order, and move BP to the 2-hole.

But I'm always cautious in predicting what will happen, because you just don't know.

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 10:21 PM
....if he continues to hit. My cautionary advice would be to remember how well Volquez was doing before being brought up and then the less than spectacular results since.

I would love nothing more than for Dickerson to come up and tear the cover off the ball. It would solve one of my biggest complaints, IF DUSTY WOULD BAT HIM LEADOFF and move OCab to 7th in the order, and move BP to the 2-hole.

But I'm always cautious in predicting what will happen, because you just don't know.

Volquez still has starts he struggled with in Triple A, and he always had had a wild streak. Dickerson's career numbers, while not a ton of games, but in 148 total games, he has a .274/.367/.421 line, which is worlds better than Stubbs right now, and a couple years ago was our best player for a few week as he was on an amazing hot streak.

If he gets injured again, fine, so be it. I don't think his fluke injuries mean he will get injured in the future anyway in the first place. But even so, that's no reason not to start the guy.

Hondo
07-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Volquez still has starts he struggled with in Triple A, and he always had had a wild streak. Dickerson's career numbers, while not a ton of games, but in 148 total games, he has a .274/.367/.421 line, which is worlds better than Stubbs right now, and a couple years ago was our best player for a few week as he was on an amazing hot streak.

If he gets injured again, fine, so be it. I don't think his fluke injuries mean he will get injured in the future anyway in the first place. But even so, that's no reason not to start the guy.

Its a bad sign when a couple years ago, Dickerson was the Reds "best" player...

Kingspoint
07-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Anyone with a career .367 OBP and plays good Defense is going to be a real asset to the club.

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 10:26 PM
Its a bad sign when a couple years ago, Dickerson was the Reds "best" player...

He was batting .304/.413/.608, which would be only behind Votto and Hanigan in offense on this year's team even.

davereds24
07-28-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm ready for him too, very small sample size in Louisville but hitting has never been an issue with him. While they are at it, Balentien needs a shot too if Heisey isn't going to get regular starts.

Hondo
07-28-2010, 10:39 PM
He was batting .304/.413/.608, which would be only behind Votto and Hanigan in offense on this year's team even.

He hit .304 in 102 AB's with 15 RBI
He hit .275 in 255 AB's with 15 RBI a year later

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=29209

I am not trying to be weird here, but he isn't going to be the Offensive Player this team needs, I would rather have Stubbs out there playing Good D with some POP...

RedsFanInBama
07-28-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm not terribly concerned with what a guy hits or even how many runs he knocks in. I'm concerned with getting on base in front of Votto and Rolen. We need a lead off man. If Dickerson can fill that role, that would be fantastic. Certainly it's worth a shot, be it at Stubbs' expense or Gomes'.

Vottomatic
07-28-2010, 10:48 PM
Volquez still has starts he struggled with in Triple A, and he always had had a wild streak. Dickerson's career numbers, while not a ton of games, but in 148 total games, he has a .274/.367/.421 line, which is worlds better than Stubbs right now, and a couple years ago was our best player for a few week as he was on an amazing hot streak.

If he gets injured again, fine, so be it. I don't think his fluke injuries mean he will get injured in the future anyway in the first place. But even so, that's no reason not to start the guy.

"A couple of years ago............our best player for a few weeks.....he was on an amazing hot streak."

About 25 years ago, I was in the best shape of my life, just out of boot camp, and I had an amazing hot streak playing b-ball at the park, and whooped up on my high school classmate who made All-City in varsity b-ball. :thumbup:

P.S. - but one hot streak does make me better than him. :D

Kingspoint
07-28-2010, 10:55 PM
As someone pointed out in the Minor League thread, it looks like he's ready for the REDS.

Hits two Doubles tonight and gets thrown out on the bases after both of them.

Tampa Red
07-28-2010, 10:57 PM
"A couple of years ago............our best player for a few weeks.....he was on an amazing hot streak."

About 25 years ago, I was in the best shape of my life, just out of boot camp, and I had an amazing hot streak playing b-ball at the park, and whooped up on my high school classmate who made All-City in varsity b-ball. :thumbup:

P.S. - but one hot streak does make me better than him. :D

...but Dickerson might be better than Stubbs. I assume that there was never any doubt that your All-City classmate was a better baller. Apples to oranges.

Stubbs might or might not be better, but he is not a leadoff hitter. I think we can all agree on that. Dickerson can be. Bring Dickerson up and give him a few starts to see if his hot streak will carry over to the bigs. It's not as if the defense is a dramatic dropoff. Not only will this give us the chance to possibly ride a hot hand, but it also puts Cabrera down in the order where he belongs.

With Stubbs slumping, it seems like there is little to lose making this move.

Vottomatic
07-28-2010, 10:58 PM
...but Dickerson might be better than Stubbs. I assume that there was never any doubt that your All-City classmate was a better baller. Apples to oranges.

Stubbs might or might not be better, but he is not a leadoff hitter. I think we can all agree on that. Dickerson can be. Bring Dickerson up and give him a few starts to see if his hot streak will carry over to the bigs. It's not as if the defense is a dramatic dropoff. Not only will this give us the chance to possibly ride a hot hand, but it also puts Cabrera down in the order where he belongs.

With Stubbs slumping, it seems like there is little to lose making this move.

But I got hot for a few weeks and was our best player during that streak.

Never mind.

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 10:58 PM
He hit .304 in 102 AB's with 15 RBI
He hit .275 in 255 AB's with 15 RBI a year later

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=29209

I am not trying to be weird here, but he isn't going to be the Offensive Player this team needs, I would rather have Stubbs out there playing Good D with some POP...

Dude, Stubbs has been anything but the gold glove CF'er. His missed his fair share of routine fly balls this season, and if I recall, a misjudgment on one has cost us a game this year. And he's batting with all of a .300 OBP! Weren't the last two CF'ers we have had with that kind of OBP flogged on this forum?

I actually like Stubbs, but we're in a pennant race and we need the best bat we can get out there right now. Two .300 OBP batters in your everyday lineup is just not a good thing. I think Dickerson could be a big boost for this team.

RedsFanInBama
07-28-2010, 11:03 PM
Putting Dickerson in the lineup now is not giving up on Stubbs. He's had a bunch of work and can continue to get some. But if there is possibly a better option (and that's just an if), we should explore it and see. We are in a pennant race, after all. This is the time to win, not squeeze in another 200 at-bats to help Stubbs develop.

What's the worst that happens? Dickerson can't get it done and we go back to Stubbs. Maybe Dickerson can do it. Maybe it will light a fire under Stubbs. You can't predict how it will work, but Dickerson's OBP through his first little stint here is enough for me to think you at least give it a shot.

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 11:06 PM
I actually would say the same about Cozart and Cabrera, but that would be heresy to the Reds organization to lose that "veteran" presence in the lineup.

RedsFanInBama
07-28-2010, 11:13 PM
I actually would say the same about Cozart and Cabrera, but that would be heresy to the Reds organization to lose that "veteran" presence in the lineup.
Not only the veteran issue, but I don't think Cozart is on the 40-man roster either. I guess Cozart will be in Cincy next year, provided he isn't traded before that.

flash
07-28-2010, 11:17 PM
I'm ready for him too, very small sample size in Louisville but hitting has never been an issue with him. While they are at it, Balentien needs a shot too if Heisey isn't going to get regular starts.

I'm really not high on Balentien. If he had been doing it all year I would say yeah, get him up here, but he hasn't.

I have always felt Dickerson was better than Stubbs

ILoveWilly
07-28-2010, 11:27 PM
Not only the veteran issue, but I don't think Cozart is on the 40-man roster either. I guess Cozart will be in Cincy next year, provided he isn't traded before that.

What's ironic about all this, is we would probably actually be better if Cabrera had a season ending injury.

Imagine this scenario: we call up Cozart, he becomes the starter, and even if he does absolutely horrible, say a .280 OBP - which is .020 lower than Cabrera, he probably will provide as much of a makeup in defense over Cabrera for .020 difference.

And not only that, by Dusty rule as a younger unproven guy in his mind, he's almost guaranteed to bat 8th, where Cabrera should be batting right now. Cabrera got his 400th AB today which is good for 2nd most on the team, with all of a .300 OBP.

Really, I'm saying it right now, if Cabrera actually got a season ending injury, which I don't wish on anyone, we would actually be a better team. Plus he would still be on the team in the clubhouse as a "veteran presence" without all the veteran ego stuff that he would have if he was just plain on the bench.

RedsFanInBama
07-28-2010, 11:36 PM
I'm not really convinced of that, mainly because I think Cabrera's worst baseball (for this season) is behind him. The last month he's at .304/.347/.359/.706. I don't know if he'll keep that up, but I think he'll stay closer to that from this point to the end of the season than he will a .300 OBP.

GIDP
07-29-2010, 12:02 AM
Dickerson also only has 75 career PA against LH pitchers

Griffey012
07-29-2010, 12:26 AM
I'm ready for him too, very small sample size in Louisville but hitting has never been an issue with him. While they are at it, Balentien needs a shot too if Heisey isn't going to get regular starts.

Heisey is incredibly valuable as a pinch hitter. Sending him down would be one of the worst moves they could make to hurt this team. If for some reason we acquired a stud outfield I would rather have him on the bench than whoever of Gomes, Bruce, or Stubbs got replaced because he has shown the ability to Pinch Hit...which is really difficult.

Kingspoint
07-29-2010, 12:36 AM
Dickerson is at his peak, physically, and that's why he's currently better than Stubbs.

Next season, Stubbs' year "26" will be better than Dickerson's year "26".

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 12:48 AM
Dickerson is at his peak, physically, and that's why he's currently better than Stubbs.

Next season, Stubbs' year "26" will be better than Dickerson's year "26".

That may very well be true. If it is, doesn't that support Dickerson playing with this year's team?

GIDP
07-29-2010, 12:53 AM
232 PA .279/.335/.457

I dont know how people can dislike that kind of production so much.

davereds24
07-29-2010, 12:53 AM
Heisey is incredibly valuable as a pinch hitter. Sending him down would be one of the worst moves they could make to hurt this team. If for some reason we acquired a stud outfield I would rather have him on the bench than whoever of Gomes, Bruce, or Stubbs got replaced because he has shown the ability to Pinch Hit...which is really difficult.


I'd rather have a guy who can start and make an impact all game long. I agree Heisey has been amazing at pinch hitting, but the league will figure out he can't hit anything offspead low and away. Cairo and Hanigan/Hernandez from the right side is more than adequate, with Stubbs being a pinch runner when he doesn't start.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 01:00 AM
232 PA .279/.335/.457

I dont know how people can dislike that kind of production so much.

Whose numbers are those?

sabometrics
07-29-2010, 01:01 AM
Dickerson's career #'s looks like.

GIDP
07-29-2010, 01:02 AM
Whose numbers are those?

Stubbs in the 7th spot in the order.

GIDP
07-29-2010, 01:05 AM
Stubbs in the leadoff spot had a .189 BABIP. I dont care how bad of a hitter you are that is unsustainable.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 01:07 AM
It's not so much that I don't like those numbers. It's that this team needs a legitimate lead-off hitter. I think the quickest fix for this offense is someone who can do an average job as a lead-off batter. I think the rest of the order falls into place nicely after that.

And like I said before, I'm fine with it coming at the expense of Gomes' playing time as much as anyone's. I love Jonny's intensity and how hard he plays the game, but he's had one amazing month and a bunch of other stinkers. And of course defensively we'd be way better with Dickerson out there.

Maybe you could work a platoon system with Jonny and Dickerson, but I think it's good to kind of have those top six or so guys pretty much set in the order, so if Dickerson were batting leadoff when playing, that would mess with that. Of course if you did platoon, you could bat Stubbs leadoff against lefties. But again, then you're playing musical chairs with the leadoff spot, which to me is far from ideal.

Brandon certainly could continue to do it, though. He's performed pretty well there, but I think he's better at other spots in the order.

GIDP
07-29-2010, 01:13 AM
Also for the guys who hate Drew Stubbs strike outs Chris Dickerson has struck out just as much

Stubbs is at an even 30%
Dickerson is at 29.9%

and dickerson barely faces LH pitching. I like Dickerson I just dont know how people think its so clearly in his favor.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 01:14 AM
Also for the guys who hate Drew Stubbs strike outs Chris Dickerson has struck out just as much

Stubbs is at an even 30%
Dickerson is at 29.9%

No, I think Dickerson has struck out slightly less. ;)

GIDP
07-29-2010, 01:16 AM
No, I think Dickerson has struck out slightly less. ;)

Well hes done it in more ABs so he has struck out a ton more!

:p

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 01:17 AM
The numbers don't lie. Haha.

davereds24
07-29-2010, 01:23 AM
Dickerson definitely would not start against LHP

Roush's socks
07-29-2010, 01:59 AM
I think the answer is to bring Dickerson in and let him split time in LF/CF against RHP. Since both Stubbs and Gomes bat RH this works out great.

powersackers
07-29-2010, 02:37 AM
I think the answer is to bring Dickerson in and let him split time in LF/CF against RHP. Since both Stubbs and Gomes bat RH this works out great.

Then who goes down to AAA or gets released? Nix, Heisey?

sabometrics
07-29-2010, 02:44 AM
Then who goes down to AAA or gets released? Nix, Heisey?

NixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNixNi xNixNixNixNixNixNixNix

DFA him asap. I don't care if he recently had a couple of good games.

Kingspoint
07-29-2010, 04:23 AM
That may very well be true. If it is, doesn't that support Dickerson playing with this year's team?

Yes, it does. That's why he made the Opening Day roster and why he'll be back on the team before the year is out.

Kingspoint
07-29-2010, 04:25 AM
, but the league will figure out he can't hit anything offspead low and away.

Few can hit anything offspeed, low-and-away, and those who can, aren't in their first or second season in the Majors.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 08:14 AM
Let me ask a relevant question...

If Dickerson were a player on another team. Would you all be like, lets go trade with "TEAM X" and get Chris Dickerson! HE will make the difference here in Cincy?

Or am I just thinking that Chris Dickerson is not the answer...

GIDP
07-29-2010, 08:52 AM
Let me ask a relevant question...

If Dickerson were a player on another team. Would you all be like, lets go trade with "TEAM X" and get Chris Dickerson! HE will make the difference here in Cincy?

Or am I just thinking that Chris Dickerson is not the answer...

Probably not but it would be more because of his injuries than the stats.

Griffey012
07-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Odds are very good if Dickerson takes over Stubbs spot we will have the EXACT same complaints we had with Stubbs.

schmidty622
07-29-2010, 10:37 AM
I think he would make a nice left handed platoon mate in both Left and Center.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 12:22 PM
I think it almost has to be Nix that is DFA'd when Dickerson returns. Heisey's lack of playing time has frustrated me, but he's shown that he can be effective as a pinch-hitter, and that could be very valuable for the rest of this season.

jwittenmyer
07-29-2010, 01:00 PM
Let me ask a relevant question...

If Dickerson were a player on another team. Would you all be like, lets go trade with "TEAM X" and get Chris Dickerson! HE will make the difference here in Cincy?

Or am I just thinking that Chris Dickerson is not the answer...

I'll answer that one.

Player X: Age: 35 - .280/.341/.383

Player Y: Age: 28 - .274/.367/.421

Player Z: Age: 30 - .289/.360/.427

Two of these outfielders have had a lot of people saying "Let's go trade "TEAM X/Y/Z" and get him! The third is Dickerson. I'll let you figure out who is who. The point of this, in case someone doesn't get it, is that the answer to your question is "YES". If Dickerson was on another team fans would want the Reds to go get him. Of course, this all assumes he's healthy and stays healthy. Injury concerns are different matter apart from his production when he's healthy.

ILoveWilly
07-29-2010, 01:31 PM
Well I know the second one is Dickerson jwitt. And as someone said earlier, Dickerson would be a good platoon player with either Gomes or Stubbs, you tell me.

Hondo
07-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I'll answer that one.

Player X: Age: 35 - .280/.341/.383

Player Y: Age: 28 - .274/.367/.421

Player Z: Age: 30 - .289/.360/.427

Two of these outfielders have had a lot of people saying "Let's go trade "TEAM X/Y/Z" and get him! The third is Dickerson. I'll let you figure out who is who. The point of this, in case someone doesn't get it, is that the answer to your question is "YES". If Dickerson was on another team fans would want the Reds to go get him. Of course, this all assumes he's healthy and stays healthy. Injury concerns are different matter apart from his production when he's healthy.

Dude, your Dude Dickerson has like less than 500 AB's over a couple different seasons... 401 to be exact...

So you breaking down players XYZ at different ages is irrelevant. It's like comparing apples, and lets say... Corn.

RedsFanInBama
07-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Why can't we compare apples to corn? Corn is clearly the superior food.

Hey Meat
07-29-2010, 02:52 PM
That's fine let him continue his hot hitting in AAA until September call ups. He is not the answer right now.

Hey Meat
07-29-2010, 02:53 PM
I think it almost has to be Nix that is DFA'd when Dickerson returns. Heisey's lack of playing time has frustrated me, but he's shown that he can be effective as a pinch-hitter, and that could be very valuable for the rest of this season.

Nope, Don't see this happening. Nix is not going anywhere.

jwittenmyer
07-29-2010, 04:50 PM
Dude, your Dude Dickerson has like less than 500 AB's over a couple different seasons... 401 to be exact...

So you breaking down players XYZ at different ages is irrelevant. It's like comparing apples, and lets say... Corn.

So let me get this straight, you think that a 28 year old player's first 401 major league at bats are ABOVE his ceiling and that his production is likely to drop off with more experience?

I agree that it's not really fair to compare Dickerson to Posednik and DeJesus (Players X and Z respectively) because they've sustained their success over a much longer time. My only point was to show that if you take away the name recognition factor, Dickerson's production stacks up well against existing trade targets, and if there was a "Player Y" with those numbers on some other team, most Reds fans would be interested in acquiring that player. You disagree with this?

ILoveWilly
08-01-2010, 11:16 PM
Dickerson 3 for 4 tonight, batting .420. Another sign the Reds must be smoking something if they don't call him up to start in center this week.

NeilHamburger
08-01-2010, 11:25 PM
Yeah, Stubbs is really struggling. If the Reds want to keep Nix fine. But, honestly would anyone have a huge problem with Stubbs working through this slump in AAA?

If the Reds were out of it then fine. But 1 game could cost this team a playoff birth. To me it doesn't hurt to bring up CDick and see what he can do.

Just think what a difference it would make if he has a hot month or two like he did in Aug./Sept. 2008 when he was arguably the best player on the team.

RedsFanInBama
08-01-2010, 11:48 PM
Nope, Don't see this happening. Nix is not going anywhere.

OK, so they send Heisey down. Who is getting dropped from the 40-man?

scott91575
08-02-2010, 01:02 AM
OK, so they send Heisey down. Who is getting dropped from the 40-man?

Owings.

Although Harang could be put on the 60 day DL in the mean time. He may not be ready until September anyway.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 03:18 AM
But, honestly would anyone have a huge problem with Stubbs working through this slump in AAA?


Not at all.

kfm
08-02-2010, 06:02 PM
Yeah, Stubbs is really struggling. If the Reds want to keep Nix fine. But, honestly would anyone have a huge problem with Stubbs working through this slump in AAA?

If the Reds were out of it then fine. But 1 game could cost this team a playoff birth. To me it doesn't hurt to bring up CDick and see what he can do.

Just think what a difference it would make if he has a hot month or two like he did in Aug./Sept. 2008 when he was arguably the best player on the team.

I like the way you are thinking. THe reds should look at this as two separate issues. One, what do we need to do to get Drew Stubbs straightened out. If the answer is to send him to AAA then the second issue is who do we replace him with? DIkcerson is the obvious answer to that. Adding Dickerson has added advantages as well, since he is the one player who has demonstrated all the necessary skills of a lead off guy, in his patient approach, his obp and his speed. This would allow for a lineup of Dickerson, Phillips, Votto, Rolen, Gomes, Bruce, Cabrerra, Hanign/Hernandez.