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edabbs44
07-30-2010, 11:44 PM
I wonder if Cordero gets a 15 day break pretty soon.

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:44 PM
details? pbp? I'm blind here.

Cordero did what he does best and walks two guys to put runners on first and second. Then Heyward hits a flare to left field that really should have been caught, but Gomes couldn't get there. Instead he attempts a sliding catch, boots the ball around and both runners score.

Chris Heisey, positioned where Gomes was, catches that ball on the run fairly easily and the inning would have been over.

CTA513
07-30-2010, 11:44 PM
You have to miss more bats if you give up walks like Cordero does.

Redhook
07-30-2010, 11:44 PM
I'm done with Coco. He's pretty much worthless as a pitcher. Fortunately, for him, his bank account isn't.

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 11:45 PM
Anyone else ready to see what Jordan Smith can do as the Reds closer?

edabbs44
07-30-2010, 11:45 PM
You have to miss more bats if you give up walks like Cordero does.

Wishing Cordero missed more games, to be perfectly honest. Or buffets.

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 11:45 PM
Wishing Cordero missed more games, to be perfectly honest. Or buffets.

Literally, laughing out loud.

KoryMac5
07-30-2010, 11:46 PM
Lets see if we can find some last AB magic here.

klw
07-30-2010, 11:47 PM
thanks for the details cyclone and edabbs.
I think bed beckons.
We are getting a puppy tomorrow so I better get the sleep while I can.

WebScorpion
07-30-2010, 11:48 PM
How did OCab get ejected? Wasn't he already replaced by Janish in a double switch? :confused:

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:48 PM
How did OCab get ejected? Wasn't he already replaced by Janish in a double switch? :confused:

He told Bob Davidson where to go while he was heading back to the dugout after being double-switched out.

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:49 PM
Rolen doubles, and now it's time for Gomes to make up for his lack of defensive range.

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:50 PM
Gomes is immediately hit by a pitch.

RedsMan3203
07-30-2010, 11:50 PM
HBP, Here comes Miggy

edabbs44
07-30-2010, 11:51 PM
Clutch AB by Gomes.

And this is one of the guys I'd like to see up here.

JaxRed
07-30-2010, 11:52 PM
not me, PH here gives you no advantage.

CTA513
07-30-2010, 11:54 PM
I guess Cabrera will be playing shortstop if they some how tie this up.

JaxRed
07-30-2010, 11:54 PM
You mean Cairo?

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:54 PM
Cairo flies out to deep center. Stubbs is swinging at balls in the dirt.

WebScorpion
07-30-2010, 11:55 PM
You mean Cairo?
He's wishing it was Miguel Cabrera... me too. :p:

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:56 PM
Full count, two outs. At least the runners are off and running.

HokieRed
07-30-2010, 11:56 PM
Did the runners advance?

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:56 PM
Stubbs swings at a ball in the dirt for a third time, and this one's over.

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 11:57 PM
Trade Proposal:

Cordero to the Cardinals

Nobody goes to the Reds

Reds pay half of Cordero's salary

If the Cardinals keep Cordero on the roster during his entire contract, the Reds pay the whole salary

If the Cardinals make Cordero their closer, the Reds throw in Francisco.

CTA513
07-30-2010, 11:57 PM
Only had 1 strike in that at bat.

TeamBoone
07-30-2010, 11:57 PM
I don't usually get all upset when the Reds lose.... because they're in the running. But they REALLY should have won this one.

WebScorpion
07-30-2010, 11:57 PM
Stubbs swings at a ball in the dirt for a third time, and this one's over.
Yea, the kid strikes out on ball 6... only got one strike that entire AB. Sure hope he gets hot again soon.

alloverjr
07-30-2010, 11:58 PM
Cordero needs to go on the DL after the game and Dickerson should come up for the game tomorrow. Zero production from the 3 outfield spots.

reds44
07-30-2010, 11:58 PM
Play Heisey in LF
Play Dickerson in CF
Hope Cordero goes missing.

alloverjr
07-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Trade Proposal:

Cordero to the Cardinals

Nobody goes to the Reds

Reds pay half of Cordero's salary

If the Cardinals keep Cordero on the roster during his entire contract, the Reds pay the whole salary

If the Cardinals make Cordero their closer, the Reds throw in Francisco.

I thought Alonso had to be involved in ALL Reds trade proposals?

dman
07-30-2010, 11:59 PM
I'm starting to think that Stubbs is going to strike out more in a platooning situation than what Dunn did as a regular.

WVRedsFan
07-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Cordero needs to go on the DL after the game and Dickerson should come up for the game tomorrow. Zero production from the 3 outfield spots.As if Dickerson is the savior. He is not. In fact, it might only be a few games before he's back on the DL.

Reds need to play Heisey somewhere even if it's a platoon with Bruce or in left.

Cyclone792
07-30-2010, 11:59 PM
I don't usually get all upset when the Reds lose.... because they're in the running. But they REALLY should have won this one.

The Reds just flat out blew this one. They got a clutch home run from Votto to tie it, an amazing opportunity to take the lead after Rolen's double and advancement to third, and then a great play by Heisey to take a home run away.

But walks from the closer and lousy range in left field end up costing them the game. Go figure.

Redhook
07-31-2010, 12:00 AM
Cordero needs to go on the DL after the game and Dickerson should come up for the game tomorrow. Zero production from the 3 outfield spots.

Yep. It's simply amazing how often Bruce and Stubbs swing without hitting the ball. They're just not good. At least right now. I have faith that Bruce will be good someday. But, Stubbs doesn't just know how to hit, unfortunately, and I don't see it happening consistently in the future.

Redhook
07-31-2010, 12:02 AM
I'm starting to think that Stubbs is going to strike out more in a platooning situation than what Dunn did as a regular.

:laugh:

KoryMac5
07-31-2010, 12:04 AM
Might be a rough weekend, time to put Reds baseball away for a bit.

CTA513
07-31-2010, 12:04 AM
Dickerson will rack up the strike outs if given the chance.

reds44
07-31-2010, 12:06 AM
Dickerson will rack up the strike outs if given the chance.
With the exception of 44 ABs this year, he plays good defense and gets on base. Platoon him and Stubbs in CF. It seems pretty simple.

edabbs44
07-31-2010, 12:09 AM
With the exception of 44 ABs this year, he plays good defense and gets on base. Platoon him and Stubbs in CF. It seems pretty simple.

For all his defensive accolades I still cannot help but remember those botches in the OF last April. And that horrendous throw from this April.

I know he is one of the favs around here, but expectations should be tempered with this guy.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2010, 12:10 AM
All this boo-hooing about CoCo (and rightfully so), but 2 major issues prior to that:

1) Bruce was just LOL bad in that AB after Rolen advances to 3rd. Just put the God damn bat on the ball!

2) Boo on Dusty for not PH'ing for Bruce there w/ Heisey. Heisey has shown he can be big in big spots and he's the best RH PH'er on the team. Against a tough lefty Bruce has less than no shot.

dman
07-31-2010, 12:27 AM
:laugh:

Actually I was being tongue-in-cheek about the comment, with just a hint of seriousness. But....when I looked it up it's impressive, in a bad way, that Stubbs has struck out in 31% of his at bats this year as a platooning outfielder.

In both 2004 and 2006, the two years that Adam Dunn had his most K's in a season, he struck out in 34% of his at bats, but was a regular and also had some decent offensive numbers to make up for it.

reds44
07-31-2010, 02:00 AM
I just saw the Heisey play for the first time, what a beast.

Ron Madden
07-31-2010, 05:49 AM
Oh My God We Suck!!!!!!

GAC
07-31-2010, 07:32 AM
As far as I'm concerned, the key to this lose was the Bruce A/B, and in this particular situation, a very poor decision by Baker to allow LHer Bruce to face Venter. When he stepped into that batter's box I though "Bruce is gonna get embarrassed here big time" with Venter's sinkers low and away. Bruce has struggled with this for how long now, yet Baker decides against PHing for Bruce with a RHer? I would really like to know Dusty's logic in this? He allows Bruce to bat. He ends up K'ing for the 3rd time in the game, but THEN does a double-switch for Bruce with Heisey in the latter half of the inning in RF?

Don't really understand this move other then it allowed Heisey an A/B the following inning. But we start out the 8th vs Venter with the Votto Hr to tie the game, a Rolen dbl, then a Gomes FB that moves Rolen to 3B - and that was gutsy Scotty! So we had some momentum going, and as far as I'm concerned, Baker killed it by allowing Bruce to hit in that situation. He should have jerked for a RH'd PHer off the bench. And it didn't have to necessarily be Heisey. It could have been Cairo, Hanigan, or even Janish at that point.

Anyone but Bruce, who would have shown a little bit more patience and probably had a better chance of making contact. I'd have let Leake take a stab at it before Bruce. ;)

Cordero stinks. Nuff said.

And no - I don't think Heisey would have gotten to the Heyward ball in LF that won the game.

GAC
07-31-2010, 08:11 AM
For all his defensive accolades I still cannot help but remember those botches in the OF last April. And that horrendous throw from this April.

I know he is one of the favs around here, but expectations should be tempered with this guy.

Thoroughly agree. Everyone is looking for answers right now in the OF, and I don't fault them for that. But it ain't Hollywood IMO. From a defensive standpoint he ain't no Gomes for sure, though I don't think Gomes is as bad as some allude either; but I've watched CDick make more then his share of mental mistakes in the OF.

Offensively? CDick has his propensity to strike out too. Last year, when he appeared in 97 games, he had a BB/K ratio of .59, and K'd 22% of the time. Not exactly stellar. And that's to go along with a .373 SLG% and .743 OPS.

Yeah, sign me up. :p:

I have no problem with people being down on Stubbs, though I think more patience is needed with him. I certainly wouldn't throw him over for the likes of CDick.

HokieRed
07-31-2010, 10:36 AM
As far as I'm concerned, the key to this lose was the Bruce A/B, and in this particular situation, a very poor decision by Baker to allow LHer Bruce to face Venter. When he stepped into that batter's box I though "Bruce is gonna get embarrassed here big time" with Venter's sinkers low and away. Bruce has struggled with this for how long now, yet Baker decides against PHing for Bruce with a RHer? I would really like to know Dusty's logic in this? He allows Bruce to bat. He ends up K'ing for the 3rd time in the game, but THEN does a double-switch for Bruce with Heisey in the latter half of the inning in RF?

Don't really understand this move other then it allowed Heisey an A/B the following inning. But we start out the 8th vs Venter with the Votto Hr to tie the game, a Rolen dbl, then a Gomes FB that moves Rolen to 3B - and that was gutsy Scotty! So we had some momentum going, and as far as I'm concerned, Baker killed it by allowing Bruce to hit in that situation. He should have jerked for a RH'd PHer off the bench. And it didn't have to necessarily be Heisey. It could have been Cairo, Hanigan, or even Janish at that point.

Anyone but Bruce, who would have shown a little bit more patience and probably had a better chance of making contact. I'd have let Leake take a stab at it before Bruce. ;)

Cordero stinks. Nuff said.

And no - I don't think Heisey would have gotten to the Heyward ball in LF that won the game.

I think Dusty understands the game the way a player does. What would be the effect on Bruce's confidence of being lifted in this situation for Paul Janish? I fully understand the logic of your argument from the fan's or statistician's perspective but it's a place where, IMHO, you've got to recognize there is an almost complete gap between that perspective and that of the player. Dusty's not thinking just about this moment; he's also got to think about Jay Bruce and he understands what Bruce has to go through from the inside perspective of the player. That's why he can't pinch hit for Bruce and expect him to go out and hit the ball tomorrow.

Cedric
07-31-2010, 12:39 PM
Thoroughly agree. Everyone is looking for answers right now in the OF, and I don't fault them for that. But it ain't Hollywood IMO. From a defensive standpoint he ain't no Gomes for sure, though I don't think Gomes is as bad as some allude either; but I've watched CDick make more then his share of mental mistakes in the OF.

Offensively? CDick has his propensity to strike out too. Last year, when he appeared in 97 games, he had a BB/K ratio of .59, and K'd 22% of the time. Not exactly stellar. And that's to go along with a .373 SLG% and .743 OPS.

Yeah, sign me up. :p:

I have no problem with people being down on Stubbs, though I think more patience is needed with him. I certainly wouldn't throw him over for the likes of CDick.

Dickerson is Willie Mays in the outfield compared to Gomes.

Redsfan320
07-31-2010, 01:22 PM
Just put the God damn bat on the ball!

Come on, SFC, please keep language like that outta here.


Oh My God We Suck!!!!!!

I'll assume this is in jest... although I'm 99% sure it is.

320

Redsfan320
07-31-2010, 01:37 PM
We're The Best Team In Baseball!!!!!!

Well now I know it was all in jest. :laugh:


320

GAC
08-01-2010, 08:45 AM
Dickerson is Willie Mays in the outfield compared to Gomes.

My previous post wasn't a defense of Gomes though. Only that if people thing CDick would be an improvement overall (not just on defense) when looking at the struggles of our 3 OFers, then they haven't watched the CDick I have in the past. He's a utility player at best IMO.

GAC
08-01-2010, 09:05 AM
I think Dusty understands the game the way a player does. What would be the effect on Bruce's confidence of being lifted in this situation for Paul Janish? I fully understand the logic of your argument from the fan's or statistician's perspective but it's a place where, IMHO, you've got to recognize there is an almost complete gap between that perspective and that of the player. Dusty's not thinking just about this moment; he's also got to think about Jay Bruce and he understands what Bruce has to go through from the inside perspective of the player. That's why he can't pinch hit for Bruce and expect him to go out and hit the ball tomorrow.

Understand that Hokie. But Baker, or any manager for that matter, wouldn't hesitate to walk out to the mound and replace a pitcher, or have a hitter in the on deck circle, yet after a pitching change, pull the guy back for another player because they realize it's not the best match up, or even make a late game replacement for defense. Are they worried about hurting that player's confidence or bruising their ego? I don't think so. That player knows it's nothing personal, but that it's the manager's job, from a strategic standpoint, and that he's trying to win a ballgame.

And if a player like Bruce is that sensitive (not saying he is either), then maybe they should send him to this guy? :p:

YouTube - R. Lee Ermey GEICO Commercial - Therapist Sarge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA)

HokieRed
08-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Understand that Hokie. But Baker, or any manager for that matter, wouldn't hesitate to walk out to the mound and replace a pitcher, or have a hitter in the on deck circle, yet after a pitching change, pull the guy back for another player because they realize it's not the best match up, or even make a late game replacement for defense. Are they worried about hurting that player's confidence or bruising their ego? I don't think so. That player knows it's nothing personal, but that it's the manager's job, from a strategic standpoint, and that he's trying to win a ballgame.

And if a player like Bruce is that sensitive (not saying he is either), then maybe they should send him to this guy? :p:

YouTube - R. Lee Ermey GEICO Commercial - Therapist Sarge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA)

Sorry, GAC. I don't think you really understand. Hitting's a lot harder than strategy.

GAC
08-01-2010, 03:03 PM
Sorry, GAC. I don't think you really understand. Hitting's a lot harder than strategy.

Sure it is. But that has nothing to do with a manager's decision. A manager's job is not to hit, but to utilize strategy, while also knowing their various player's strengths and weaknesses, and putting them in situations where they have a greater chance of success and minimize failure. So lets not undervalue the importance of strategy which involves realizing that a player is struggling and has a huge propensity toward failure or less positive results in certain situations, such as LHing Bruce facing a slider pitcher like Venture. Especially when you have the go ahead run standing at 3B in the 8th inning.

HokieRed
08-01-2010, 03:27 PM
Sure it is. But that has nothing to do with a manager's decision. A manager's job is not to hit, but to utilize strategy, while also knowing their various player's strengths and weaknesses, and putting them in situations where they have a greater chance of success and minimize failure. So lets not undervalue the importance of strategy which involves realizing that a player is struggling and has a huge propensity toward failure or less positive results in certain situations, such as LHing Bruce facing a slider pitcher like Venture. Especially when you have the go ahead run standing at 3B in the 8th inning.


Replacing Jay Bruce with Paul Janish means to Jay Bruce that the manager--a very successful major league hitter--considers him a failure. Simple as that.

GAC
08-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Replacing Jay Bruce with Paul Janish means to Jay Bruce that the manager--a very successful major league hitter--considers him a failure. Simple as that.

a very successful major league hitter? Are we talking about the same player? So every time a manager pulls a player from the game or substitutes for them, it's because he thinks that player is a failure? Wrong.

Redhook
08-01-2010, 03:51 PM
Replacing Jay Bruce with Paul Janish means to Jay Bruce that the manager--a very successful major league hitter--considers him a failure. Simple as that.

Replacing Bruce with Heisey or Janish in that situation was the right call. It doesn't mean Bruce is a failure or that Dusty would've have thought that. It would've meant Dusty was using proper strategy to win the game. In that situation, Dusty failed. And so did Bruce, but I put much more of the blame on Dusty for allowing Bruce to go out in that situation. You could see the strikeout coming from a mile away. He had virtually no chance to hit the ball in that at-bat. It was a terrible, terrible decision allowing Bruce to hit there.

And like GAC said, if Bruce is so sensitive, and I don't think he is, that he feels like he's a failure because he's taken out for a situation like that, then he's a player that shouldn't be in the majors. Dusty needs to stop thinking so much about player's emotions and accolades in game-changing situations.

HokieRed
08-01-2010, 03:57 PM
Replacing Bruce with Heisey or Janish in that situation was the right call. It doesn't mean Bruce is a failure or that Dusty would've have thought that. It would've meant Dusty was using proper strategy to win the game. In that situation, Dusty failed. And so did Bruce, but I put much more of the blame on Dusty for allowing Bruce to go out in that situation. You could see the strikeout coming from a mile away. He had virtually no chance to hit the ball in that at-bat. It was a terrible, terrible decision allowing Bruce to hit there.

And like GAC said, if Bruce is so sensitive, and I don't think he is, that he feels like he's a failure because he's taken out for a situation like that, then he's a player that shouldn't be in the majors. Dusty needs to stop thinking so much about player's emotions and accolades in game-changing situations.


I just don't agree with you that hitting is as simple or as unemotional as you make it. Bruce is really suffering now; that's pretty obvious. Dusty was a very competent major league hitter. You're talking about taking Bruce out for the weakest hitting position player on the team--Janish--or a rookie, Heisey. Dusty's not going to do that; and he's right. This isn't to say Bruce is too sensitive; it's just to say he wants to get the job done and is going to take notice of the fact the manager doesn't think he can do it.

GAC
08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
You're talking about taking Bruce out for the weakest hitting position player on the team--Janish--or a rookie, Heisey.

Who said it had to be either of them? He also had Cairo and Hanigan. And Janish, in 38 games, has posted a .370 OB% .413 SLG% .783 OPS, and .270 B/A. And those numbers are higher vs a LHer. So I don't know if he's the weakest.

We're talking about making a tactical move that should supersede emotions. And I think Dusty, who is suppose to be a player's manager, could have talked to Bruce afterwards, if he thought the switch would have some sort of emotional impact on Bruce = and I don't think it would have - and soothe over any emotions or hard feelings that he felt may become evident. I think Jay could handle it.

Redhook
08-01-2010, 10:45 PM
I just don't agree with you that hitting is as simple or as unemotional as you make it. Bruce is really suffering now; that's pretty obvious. Dusty was a very competent major league hitter. You're talking about taking Bruce out for the weakest hitting position player on the team--Janish--or a rookie, Heisey. Dusty's not going to do that; and he's right. This isn't to say Bruce is too sensitive; it's just to say he wants to get the job done and is going to take notice of the fact the manager doesn't think he can do it.

I'm not saying it's simple or unemotional. I'm saying that any one of the Reds right-handed hitters had a better chance of hitting the ball than Jay did in that situation. Contact is what they needed there and JB didn't have much of a chance.

HokieRed
08-01-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not saying it's simple or unemotional. I'm saying that any one of the Reds right-handed hitters had a better chance of hitting the ball than Jay did in that situation. Contact is what they needed there and JB didn't have much of a chance.


And I'm saying that you can't send a 23 year old that you want to be a franchise player the message that Miguel Cairo or Paul Janish is a better option than he is.