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View Full Version : Reds Are Said To Be In On Lilly



RedLegSuperStar
07-30-2010, 04:31 PM
FoxSports reporting

reds44
07-30-2010, 04:32 PM
The thought of Lilly pitching in GABP makes me queezy.

dougdirt
07-30-2010, 04:32 PM
Why? Pitching is not an issue for this team. Not just that, who on earth do you cut to make room for him?

_Sir_Charles_
07-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Nothing to see here....All is well! "Reds have a 'remote' chance of obtaining Lilly"

http://www.akkamsrazor.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/1animalhouse508.jpeg

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2010, 04:34 PM
I think this will be the deal we make.

reds44
07-30-2010, 04:37 PM
Why? Pitching is not an issue for this team. Not just that, who on earth do you cut to make room for him?
Serious, completely non-sarcastic question, if pitching isn't the issue, then what is? We lead the NL in runs, and we're literally 20 runs clear of the field.

I don't want Lilly either, but yeah.

dougdirt
07-30-2010, 04:39 PM
Serious, completely non-sarcastic question, if pitching isn't the issue, then what is? We lead the NL in runs, and we're literally 20 runs clear of the field.

I don't want Lilly either, but yeah.

The issues are SS and LF. Our pitching is fine and we have Bailey and Harang on the DL still coming back. The bullpen has been outstanding of late and has a few options in AAA with Isringhausen, Springer, Chapman and Del Rosario too.

The biggest thing is that getting Lilly means cutting someone or sending Travis Wood to the minors to keep someone who isn't pitching as well as him.

reds44
07-30-2010, 04:41 PM
The issues are SS and LF. Our pitching is fine and we have Bailey and Harang on the DL still coming back. The bullpen has been outstanding of late and has a few options in AAA with Isringhausen, Springer, Chapman and Del Rosario too.

The biggest thing is that getting Lilly means cutting someone or sending Travis Wood to the minors to keep someone who isn't pitching as well as him.
I agree with you. I've given up on the Reds acquiring a SS, but I'm holding out hope for an upgrade in LF.

LoganBuck
07-30-2010, 04:41 PM
The issues are SS and LF. Our pitching is fine and we have Bailey and Harang on the DL still coming back. The bullpen has been outstanding of late and has a few options in AAA with Isringhausen, Springer, Chapman and Del Rosario too.

The biggest thing is that getting Lilly means cutting someone or sending Travis Wood to the minors to keep someone who isn't pitching as well as him.

This.

I did hear earlier today that Stephen Drew is next on the block in Arizona.

Cedric
07-30-2010, 04:42 PM
I'd much rather have Lilly over a very shaky Volquez, injured Homer, and Harang.

I think it's going to take until next year for Volquez to get back into things.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Unexpected suitors for players frequently emerge in the final 24 hours before the non-waiver trade deadline.

The Reds could be such a team on Cubs left-hander Ted Lilly, but only if they step up their pursuit quickly.

A source with knowledge of the talks described Lilly-to-Cincinnati as a “remote” possibility. The Reds have shown interest in Lilly, but not in the last few days, another source said.

Lilly, 34, can be traded to the Reds without his approval; Cincinnati is not one of the 10 teams on his no-trade list.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110

edabbs44
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
The issues are SS and LF. Our pitching is fine and we have Bailey and Harang on the DL still coming back. The bullpen has been outstanding of late and has a few options in AAA with Isringhausen, Springer, Chapman and Del Rosario too.

The biggest thing is that getting Lilly means cutting someone or sending Travis Wood to the minors to keep someone who isn't pitching as well as him.

Maybe they don't want to have to rely on Wood down the stretch. Thinking there is no risk there would be slightly risky.

BCubb2003
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
Has the front office ever given any indication that they think shortstop is a need?

KoryMac5
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
This.

I did hear earlier today that Stephen Drew is next on the block in Arizona.

Is Cozart better than Drew? I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. I feel the Reds stand pat at the deadline, Walt likes the horses he has.

remdog
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
This is from my post about the Rangers/Guzman but I think it applies:

It's often said that 'the year picks you' and the Rangers have, obviously, decided that 2010 picked them. They are doing everything possible to win now, rather than later. It's a philosophy that I hope and believe that the Reds have also bought into.

I think Walt believes that the Reds can both win this year and build for the future. It's a tough highwire to walk but Walt pretty much was successful with the same walk when he was in St. Louis and I have a lot of trust in him.

Rem

nate
07-30-2010, 04:44 PM
Why? Pitching is not an issue for this team. Not just that, who on earth do you cut to make room for him?

Of all the things the Reds do, pitching is the thing they do worst.

But to me, Lilly doesn't make the pitching better, just wider.

edabbs44
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
I agree with you. I've given up on the Reds acquiring a SS, but I'm holding out hope for an upgrade in LF.

Is there a true upgrade available at either position that wouldn't cost a lot in players or money?

redsmetz
07-30-2010, 04:47 PM
Has the front office ever given any indication that they think shortstop is a need?

I think they would say for this year, it's not a problem. I know there's great disagreement here on RZ with that, but I think the club would say that they have it covered for this season and that next will be evaluated. And that's not necessarily untrue.

That said, what if this might be a swap moving Harang. Contracts are similar dollars for this year, but trading him could free up the buyout (or be split). There's going to be a difficulty figuring out what to do with this wealth of pitchers when Harang and Bailey come off the DL, IMO.

reds44
07-30-2010, 04:47 PM
Is there a true upgrade available at either position that wouldn't cost a lot in players or money?
You're going to have to give up something to get something, that's just the way it is. It's hard to be worse than Gomes has been in every month other than May. Corey Hart says hello.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2010, 04:49 PM
I posted this in another thread - I think Luke Scott would be a good fit for the Reds. He has a .956 OPS vs RHP this season which would make him a great platoon partner with Jonny Gomes.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 04:51 PM
I posted this in another thread - I think Luke Scott would be a good fit for the Reds. He has a .956 OPS vs RHP this season which would make him a great platoon partner with Jonny Gomes.

I've been very high on Scott for a while, but since he's been back from the DL he has been on fire. He would be a terrific platoon partner with Gomes -- if that's the direction the Reds would like to head in.

LincolnparkRed
07-30-2010, 04:51 PM
Think of all the homers the reds hit when Lilly pitches. Now think of the other teams we play getting their chance to tee it up at GABP.

No thanks everyday of the week and twice on Sunday

Playadlc
07-30-2010, 04:55 PM
Are the Cardinals one of the 10 teams on his no-trade list? Could we be interested just to block St. Louis? Lilly seems like a good idea for St. Louis.

Also agree with the above posters about Luke Scott. That moves makes a lot of sense.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2010, 04:55 PM
Leake will have to have his innings curtailed, Volquez is the opposite of an answer, the Reds don't really know if or when Harang will be available, Arroyo has a serious back-payment schedule with BABIP, Wood has made, what, 5-6 MLB starts?

What could go wrong with this rotation, amirite?

nate
07-30-2010, 04:57 PM
I posted this in another thread - I think Luke Scott would be a good fit for the Reds. He has a .956 OPS vs RHP this season which would make him a great platoon partner with Jonny Gomes.

I picked him up for my fantasy team.

But not Ted Lilly.

How's that for analysis?

:cool:

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2010, 04:58 PM
I posted this in another thread - I think Luke Scott would be a good fit for the Reds. He has a .956 OPS vs RHP this season which would make him a great platoon partner with Jonny Gomes.

Good thought.

Saw him play last weekend at Camden Yards -- absolutely crushed a baseball to dead center field. He's a brutal fielder, but he's still a tick better than Gomes in LF.

savafan
07-30-2010, 05:07 PM
Why Lord? Why?

edabbs44
07-30-2010, 05:12 PM
You're going to have to give up something to get something, that's just the way it is. It's hard to be worse than Gomes has been in every month other than May. Corey Hart says hello.

Well it's a good thing that August starts soon. And I thought Hart is off the table.

osuceltic
07-30-2010, 05:20 PM
Leake will have to have his innings curtailed, Volquez is the opposite of an answer, the Reds don't really know if or when Harang will be available, Arroyo has a serious back-payment schedule with BABIP, Wood has made, what, 5-6 MLB starts?

What could go wrong with this rotation, amirite?

Exactly right. Cliff Lee or Roy Oswalt clearly were better targets (still ticked we came away with neither), but to suggest the rotation isn't an issue is a huge stretch. Beyond Arroyo and maybe Cueto, I see nothing but question marks.

Lilly clearly isn't in the class of Lee or Oswalt, but he's more of a sure thing--in terms of what you're going to get from him--than Volquez, Leake, Wood, Bailey or Harang at this point. Could one or more of that group outperform Lilly the rest of the way? Sure. But I think it's just as likely -- probably more likely -- that Lilly provides more down the stretch than most of those guys.

Mario-Rijo
07-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Nothing to see here, Walt just trying to drive up the price on Lilly for St. Louis. Walt is doing nothing but playing the game if we get something more than a pen arm or bench help (both of which are stretches) I would be utterly shocked.

MikeS21
07-30-2010, 06:12 PM
Let St. Louis get Lilly. That gives the Cards a pitcher the Reds can rough up. lol!

GAC
07-30-2010, 06:46 PM
Looks like the Dodgers could land the guy. Maybe he'll get a locker next to Casey Blake. ;)

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2010, 06:50 PM
From John Fay:


I know there are a lot of rumors out there. You can write off about 99 percent of them. Reds and Ted Lilly?

“I like our left-hander (Travis Wood) better than him,” one insider told me. “Wood has better stuff.”


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/30/jocketty-all-quiet-2/

Mario-Rijo
07-30-2010, 07:03 PM
From John Fay:



http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/30/jocketty-all-quiet-2/

While true the Reds have been looking for experienced arms, if it was all about talent why is Russ Springer a consideration is his stuff better than Ondrusek or Smith?

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 07:19 PM
Lilly pitches in a homer friendly park and has been fine this year. He knows how to pitch, and go deep into games. The Reds could use a veteran innings eater with Harang, Volquez and Bailey as big question marks the rest of the season.

I wouldn't offer much, but since he would bring back two draft picks next year, I'd say he's worth something like Valaika and Lecure, more if the Cubs pick up some salary.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Lilly pitches in a homer friendly park and has been fine this year. He knows how to pitch, and go deep into games. The Reds could use a veteran innings eater with Harang, Volquez and Bailey as big question marks the rest of the season.

I wouldn't offer much, but since he would bring back two draft picks next year, I'd say he's worth something like Valaika and Lecure, more if the Cubs pick up some salary.

GABP isn't a homer friendly park?

Lilly is giving up twice as many flyballs as groundballs. That's not a recipe for success at GABP. The Reds have Ted Lilly already -- his name is Aaron Harang.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2010, 07:27 PM
GABP isn't a homer friendly park?

Lilly is giving up twice as many flyballs as groundballs. That's not a recipe for success at GABP. The Reds have Ted Lilly already -- his name is Aaron Harang.

Except they don't have Harang. That's kind of the problem.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 07:30 PM
Except they don't have Harang. That's kind of the problem.

Harang has been intimating he's ready to go when they are. Makes me think the Reds are in no hurry to get him back--thereby they'd have no reason to acquire someone similar to him.

Even if they did, Lilly is no better than what the Reds already have in the rotation.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2010, 07:31 PM
Then Reds' FO needs to pull their heads from their arses if they think Volquez is a better option than Harang.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 07:32 PM
Then Reds' FO needs to pull their heads from their arses if they think Volquez is a better option than Harang.

I'm going to buy you a new drum to beat.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2010, 07:34 PM
I'm going to buy you a new drum to beat.

You'll change your tune. Or not. The facts will say Volquez has no business in the Pirates' rotation much less a contenders'. The decision to wake up and realize it is yours.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 07:43 PM
You'll change your tune. Or not. The facts will say Volquez has no business in the Pirates' rotation much less a contenders'. The decision to wake up and realize it is yours.

He's had two real bad starts and one real good start. It's too soon for anyone to be able to make that conclusion.

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 07:47 PM
GABP isn't a homer friendly park?

Lilly is giving up twice as many flyballs as groundballs. That's not a recipe for success at GABP. The Reds have Ted Lilly already -- his name is Aaron Harang.

And yet, with that flyable ratio, in Wrigley, he's been fine this year. He's a very smart pitcher. I think Lilly can give the Reds more quality innings over the next few months than Harang, Bailey or Volquez. I wouldn't pay much for it, but he would be an improvement.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 08:03 PM
And yet, with that flyable ratio, in Wrigley, he's been fine this year. He's a very smart pitcher. I think Lilly can give the Reds more quality innings over the next few months than Harang, Bailey or Volquez. I wouldn't pay much for it, but he would be an improvement.

He's given up 20 homers this season (1.5 per 9 innings). That's certainly not the type of pitcher I want to acquire in hopes of 'upgrading' a staff. What's scarier is he's giving up league average HR/FB ratio.

TheNext44
07-30-2010, 08:34 PM
He's given up 20 homers this season (1.5 per 9 innings). That's certainly not the type of pitcher I want to acquire in hopes of 'upgrading' a staff. What's scarier is he's giving up league average HR/FB ratio.

Again, and yet he has been very successful, being a flyable pitcher who gives up a lot of home runs in a hitters park. Just like Harang and Arroyo. There is no reason to think that Lilly will pitch worse for the Reds than he has for the Cubs, and he's pitched fine for the Cubs.

Brutus
07-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Again, and yet he has been very successful, being a flyable pitcher who gives up a lot of home runs in a hitters park. Just like Harang and Arroyo. There is no reason to think that Lilly will pitch worse for the Reds than he has for the Cubs, and he's pitched fine for the Cubs.

His FIP is 4.50. He's not a bad pitcher, but he's also not an upgrade to the staff.

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2010, 08:41 PM
His FIP is 4.50. He's not a bad pitcher, but he's also not an upgrade to the staff.

Just one man's opinion, but I think Lilly gives us a better chance to win on most nights then Wood, Harang, or Volquez. Take your pick.

RedsManRick
07-30-2010, 08:43 PM
I think he's probably a minor upgrade, but not one large enough (or certain enough) to merit trading away what it would take to get him.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2010, 08:47 PM
I think he's probably a minor upgrade, but not one large enough (or certain enough) to merit trading away what it would take to get him.

Yeah, they won't trade for him. Too much money.

LoganBuck
07-30-2010, 09:19 PM
I have a Cubs fan cousin that called me all excited about this.

He wondered if the Cubs could get Alonso and Wood for Lilly. I told him when I dress up like a Leprechaun and poop green sherbet.

alloverjr
07-31-2010, 09:59 AM
I take him over Volquez this season, but wouldn't pay much to get it done either.

mth123
07-31-2010, 11:16 AM
I take him over Volquez this season, but wouldn't pay much to get it done either.

That's where I'm at on Lilly. He'd be more of a sure thing to go with Arroyo and Cueto in the post season so he'd be worth getting, but I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade until then to pay too much for him.

Maybe somebody like Enerio Del Rosario straight-up with The Reds taking on money. If the cubs take on some money, I'd add a lower level guy like Sulbaran or something.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 11:22 AM
Reds aren't going to get a starter.

oregonred
07-31-2010, 11:41 AM
The Reds #2-#6 starting options are all fairly close. They don't have a huge drop off at #4 and #5. I am assuming between Volquez/Harang/Bailey/Maloney we have a replacement level 5th the rest of the way.

Hence Walt's dilemma. Anything other than a game changer at the top (Lee, Oswalt, Haren and Greinke) doesn't move the dial much on marginal improvement. The Cards are in the enviable position of having a Lilly or Westbrook replace complete deadweight at the back of the rotation.

Another high leverage pen arm and a bat should be higher priorities at this point.

KronoRed
07-31-2010, 05:00 PM
Reds aren't going to get a starter.

Nope, and this is where the season will fall apart, depending on two rookies, a guy coming back from arm surgery, Bailey and Harang is a great plan for fading.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 05:03 PM
Nope, and this is where the season will fall apart, depending on two rookies, a guy coming back from arm surgery, Bailey and Harang is a great plan for fading.

The Reds have gotten the absolute maximum out of the talent on hand; apres lui, le deluge. The fade will be slow up to the West Coast trip, then they'll crash harder than a cicada on a Mack truck.

jojo
07-31-2010, 05:08 PM
The Reds have gotten the absolute maximum out of the talent on hand; apres lui, le deluge. The fade will be slow up to the West Coast trip, then they'll crash harder than a cicada on a Mack truck.

That's kind of what all Cards fans are hoping....

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 05:11 PM
That's kind of what all Cards fans are hoping....

It's what I've thought all season. Their talent deficit should have been obvious to anyone with a touch of objectivity.

Brutus
07-31-2010, 05:15 PM
It's what I've thought all season. Their talent deficit should have been obvious to anyone with a touch of objectivity.

If that's the case, I do have to ask: why, then, were you saying a few weeks ago you kept expecting them to run away with the division?

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 05:23 PM
If that's the case, I do have to ask: why, then, were you saying a few weeks ago you kept expecting them to run away with the division?

I'm fairly certain that I said they would run away if they added Lee. And I believe that.

Mario-Rijo
07-31-2010, 06:08 PM
I'm fairly certain that I said they would run away if they added Lee. And I believe that.

So Lee and a bunch of no talent overachievers could run away with it? Again with the broad generalizations. Maybe if you would actually say what you really feel one time so we know how you really feel. But doing so wouldn't allow you the flexibility of wriggling out of what you said in the 1st place.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 06:12 PM
So Lee and a bunch of no talent overachievers could run away with it? Again with the broad generalizations. Maybe if you would actually say what you really feel one time so we know how you really feel. But doing so wouldn't allow you the flexibility of wriggling out of what you said in the 1st place.

I never called them no-talent. But they're definitely overachieving. No wriggling at all. They clearly have played over their heads; adding real talent like Lee at the top gives them more of the real thing to carry them to the other side.

Brutus
07-31-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm fairly certain that I said they would run away if they added Lee. And I believe that.

Some comments you've made since Lee was already traded...

July 23:

"The postseason ship sailed when they missed out on Lee."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2169008#post2169008

July 22:

"But maybe I should define my parameters: the Reds will miss the playoffs by more than 5 games if they don't get help both in pitching and offense."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2168852#post2168852

"There's no doubt in my mind that the Reds are headed for the second-tier without a pretty massive infusion of production."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2168475#post2168475

And on that day, you also said this about the Cardinals (the very same team you said it should be clear to anyone objective they had major talent issues)...

"The Cards' last shot at the playoffs for awhile? How do you figure? They'll return every single principal to their team next year.

So, they'll just magically all start to suck in 2011?"

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2167872#post2167872

I don't mean these to be representative of all of your comments, but at best you've been all over the map here.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 06:33 PM
Some comments you've made since Lee was already traded...

July 23:

"The postseason ship sailed when they missed out on Lee."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2169008#post2169008

July 22:

"But maybe I should define my parameters: the Reds will miss the playoffs by more than 5 games if they don't get help both in pitching and offense."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2168852#post2168852

"There's no doubt in my mind that the Reds are headed for the second-tier without a pretty massive infusion of production."

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2168475#post2168475

And on that day, you also said this about the Cardinals (the very same team you said it should be clear to anyone objective they had major talent issues)...

"The Cards' last shot at the playoffs for awhile? How do you figure? They'll return every single principal to their team next year.

So, they'll just magically all start to suck in 2011?"

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2167872#post2167872

I don't mean these to be representative of all of your comments, but at best you've been all over the map here.

I'm doing my best here, honest, but I don't see the contradiction. A little help?

Brutus
07-31-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm doing my best here, honest, but I don't see the contradiction. A little help?

Teams that are in obvious need of talent, as you said about St. Louis, do not typically pull away in a division race. So you're saying it's obvious St. Louis needs upgrades, yet, you insist the Reds will not contend. Kind of a little contradcitory.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2010, 06:36 PM
Teams that are in obvious need of talent, as you said about St. Louis, do not typically pull away in a division race. So you're saying it's obvious St. Louis needs upgrades, yet, you insist the Reds will not contend. Kind of a little contradcitory.

Where did I say the Cards are in obvious need of talent? That's the piece I'm missing I guess.

Brutus
07-31-2010, 06:38 PM
Where did I say the Cards are in obvious need of talent? That's the piece I'm missing I guess.

My bad. I was responding to your reply of JoJo in this very thread. I thought you were referencing St. Louis, but it was about Cincinnati's 'talent deficit.'

Again, my apologies. I am suffering from a reading comprehension issue today. Carry on. :)