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texasdave
07-30-2010, 07:25 PM
And the rich get richer:


5:09pm: The deal is done and Berkman has approved it, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The Yankees have to wait 24 hours before the deal is officially complete because of Berkman's ten and five rights.

Vottomatic
07-30-2010, 07:26 PM
What's he gonna play? Cheerleader?

GIDP
07-30-2010, 07:28 PM
Someone on twitter said the Yankees now have 9 players who make more money than the Reds highest paid and something like 3 that make almost as much.

seems balanced rofl

texasdave
07-30-2010, 07:37 PM
What's he gonna play? Cheerleader?

Nice problem to have. We have Lance Berkman. Now, how do we get him some ABs?

brm7675
07-30-2010, 07:43 PM
I don't see how it helps them that much, but it does make our games vs. the Stros a little bit easier...

Krawhitham
07-30-2010, 10:48 PM
They also get Kearns for a player to be named later. Kearns was pulled off field

Krawhitham
07-30-2010, 10:53 PM
kerry wood might in trade with Kearns

GIDP
07-30-2010, 10:55 PM
So the Astros gave Berkman to the Yankees and gave them money?

They just paid what 7 million for a bad prospect?

DocRed
07-31-2010, 12:53 AM
They just picked up Kearns too....

Moosie52
07-31-2010, 01:07 AM
I'll miss Lance. Nah. :)

Redeye fly
07-31-2010, 01:08 AM
Someone on twitter said the Yankees now have 9 players who make more money than the Reds highest paid and something like 3 that make almost as much.

seems balanced rofl

16 years ago when we had the players strike I was just an 18 year old baseball fan who thought that if the players thought the idea of a salary cap was bad, then it would be best not to have one.

But actually, there needs to be one. Or there needs to be something. The NFL has one, the NBA has one, I believe the NHL has one, although I'm really not a hockey fan. Teams shouldn't have an almost unlimited amount of income based almost solely on the media market they're in. That major league baseball has allowed a situation where the Yankees can simply outspend pretty much every other major league team for a player they really want year after year after year is a joke.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 01:17 AM
Lance Berkman is worth slightly above a replacement player. The Yankees got less richer with this deal.

sabometrics
07-31-2010, 01:20 AM
Lance Berkman is worth slightly above a replacement player. The Yankees got less richer with this deal.

Short porch at Yankee stadium? Not having to play the field? I think Berkman will be a lot better than you think as a Yankee.

GIDP
07-31-2010, 01:33 AM
Lance Berkman is worth slightly above a replacement player. The Yankees got less richer with this deal.

When you have deep pockets you can be willing to take chances on guys with career lines like Berkman. Is he the monster he used to be? Nah but still hes a 2 or 3 WAR player in most cases.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 02:01 AM
When you have deep pockets you can be willing to take chances on guys with career lines like Berkman. Is he the monster he used to be? Nah but still hes a 2 or 3 WAR player in most cases.

He is worth maybe, maybe 1 win the rest of this year (1.2 over the first 112 games).

Can they take a chance? Sure. Is it much ado about nothing on a Reds board? Yep.

Berkman is damaged goods. Let him go to the Yanks. They can pay him for being done.

GIDP
07-31-2010, 02:02 AM
He is worth maybe, maybe 1 win the rest of this year (1.2 over the first 112 games).

Can they take a chance? Sure. Is it much ado about nothing on a Reds board? Yep.

Berkman is damaged goods. Let him go to the Yanks. They can pay him for being done.

His WAR is over 2 for the season.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 02:03 AM
His WAR is over 2 for the season.

1.2 the last time I checked (which was seconds ago).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berkmla01.shtml

sabometrics
07-31-2010, 02:04 AM
1.2 the last time I checked (which was seconds ago).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/berkmla01.shtml

Neither of you are wrong, just different sources. Fangraphs has him at nearly 2.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 02:10 AM
Neither of you are wrong, just different sources. Fangraphs has him at nearly 2.

which means neither is over 2 per GIDP's assertion. So he is wrong.

Even at 1.9 (per fangraph) he is still maybe worth 1 over a replacement player.

His value is worth about nothing to a playoff team, and anyone that has seen him hit recently knows he is a shell of his former self. He hit a couple of home runs recently (and Houston has a very, very short LF so it's not like he is in San Diego), but other than that he has been horrible.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 02:15 AM
BTW...Berkman could pay dividends. Yet it's not the rich getting richer. It's the rich putting a few dollars on boxcars. A sucker bet that could pay off, but still not a good bet.

sabometrics
07-31-2010, 02:15 AM
which means neither is over 2 per GIDP's assertion. So he is wrong.

Relax, 1.9 or 2.0, who cares? Last I checked you can't win 1.9 games, but you can win 2.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 02:17 AM
Relax, 1.9 or 2.0, who cares? Last I checked you can't win 1.9 games, but you can win 2.

I am not upset, but he stated over 2. 2.0 is not over 2.

Texas Pete
07-31-2010, 05:06 AM
Berkman has a solid-to-good OBP and he will probably see better pitches with the Yankees with some protection around him. I like the move for the Yankees.

How much did the Yankees have to give up to get him?

Hondo
07-31-2010, 06:03 AM
He will replace Nick Johnson in as DH/Part Time 1B to fill in for Tex...

Great Move by the Yanks... Offensive Production will Climax now with a Better team around him and in the middle of a penant race...

Can't believe the Astors traded him... He was their Gerorge Brett... Sad.

GIDP
07-31-2010, 09:11 AM
It was over 2 when I checked. It was 2.1 actually.

Magdal
07-31-2010, 10:19 AM
He will replace Nick Johnson in as DH/Part Time 1B to fill in for Tex...

Great Move by the Yanks... Offensive Production will Climax now with a Better team around him and in the middle of a penant race...

Can't believe the Astors traded him... He was their Gerorge Brett... Sad.I feel for the fans. Best arm and bat gone.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 11:42 AM
It was over 2 when I checked. It was 2.1 actually.

link?

GIDP
07-31-2010, 11:44 AM
link?

can I link it from fangraphs?

Anyways we are arguing over something so dumb. I really dont care what type of WAR hes right now. The Yankees have pockets deep enough to see if Berkman can be the hitter he normally is.

texasdave
07-31-2010, 11:51 AM
Berkman had knee surgery over the winter and missed nearly the first three weeks of the season. He started slowly. In his last 30 games he is OPSing a crisp .966. The rich, indeed, get richer.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 11:51 AM
can I link it from fangraphs?

Anyways we are arguing over something so dumb. I really dont care what type of WAR hes right now. The Yankees have pockets deep enough to see if Berkman can be the hitter he normally is.

This one?

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=548&position=1B/OF

That is what I love about this place. Make an incorrect statement, and then say "I don't really care about it." Well, if it doesn't matter then why bother making it, especially when it's wrong?

GIDP
07-31-2010, 11:57 AM
This one?

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=548&position=1B/OF

That is what I love about this place. Make an incorrect statement, and then say "I don't really care about it." Well, if it doesn't matter then why bother making it, especially when it's wrong?

Yes that one. I saw it at 2.1. It doesnt matter because its only .2 off what it currently is right now. In the end it doesnt really matter that much. The whole point of my post was that the Yankees can take the chance to see if Berkman is the .400ish wOBA guy hes been in the past.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 11:57 AM
Berkman had knee surgery over the winter and missed nearly the first three weeks of the season. He started slowly. In his last 30 games he is OPSing a crisp .966. The rich, indeed, get richer.

In his last 11 games he is OPSing a crisp .667.

The reason for the jump in July? Pittsburgh pitching (and his homers were not exactly towering shots....all were 350 and under). Against any pitching with a pulse he has been awful.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 12:04 PM
Yes that one. I saw it at 2.1. It doesnt matter because its only .2 off what it currently is right now. In the end it doesnt really matter that much. The whole point of my post was that the Yankees can take the chance to see if Berkman is the .400ish wOBA guy hes been in the past.

I agree they can afford to take a chance. Yet Berkman has been a shell of his former self. If he turns it around in New York, great. Yet he has not been good.

GIDP
07-31-2010, 12:07 PM
I agree they can afford to take a chance. Yet Berkman has been a shell of his former self. If he turns it around in New York, great. Yet he has not been good.

He still has an OPS over .800 after his slow start. His .375 OBP is probably what the Yankees are targeting more than anything from Berkman. The fact that he might end up mashing the ball is just an added bonus.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 12:27 PM
He still has an OPS over .800 after his slow start. His .375 OBP is probably what the Yankees are targeting more than anything from Berkman. The fact that he might end up mashing the ball is just an added bonus.

He is above league average at the plate, but provides nothing defensively. That makes him a below average to average type starter this year (even at DH, where the average DH will have an OPS or OPS+ above average). Can he help the Yankees? Sure. Yet this is not some blockbuster deal. I don't think any team outside of the Yankees were exactly clamoring for his services. Posada and Thames at DH give you the same numbers (actually better) than what Berkman has given this year. Plus it's not like they were playing Posada at DH because they needed a DH. He has had knee problems and needs to DH, so putting in Berkman at DH is not increasing Posada's use behind the plate. They could try Berkman in left field, but Gardner's numbers are similar and Berkman would be a huge liability in the outfield.

The Yankees essentially just got a player they already have in hopes he turns into the Berkman of old.

GIDP
07-31-2010, 12:33 PM
the league average for DH in the AL is .248/.326/.424

Yankees have got .248/.355/.421 from their DH.

Berkman has a .245/.372/.436 line


If you got the money there is no reason to not add Berkman in my eyes. If he hits anything above .800 OPS its still an upgrade.

scott91575
07-31-2010, 12:45 PM
the league average for DH in the AL is .248/.326/.424

Yankees have got .248/.355/.421 from their DH.

Berkman has a .245/.372/.436 line


If you got the money there is no reason to not add Berkman in my eyes. If he hits anything above .800 OPS its still an upgrade.

That is comparing multiple players over the year and assuming Berkman can play every day at DH. He is only one player so you have to eliminate some of the random variation with players at DH.

Take Posada and Thames. Both OPS higher than Berkman. They could just as easily play DH the rest of the year along with Swisher while Thames plays RF from time to time. There might be a handful of games where Berkman would actually be an improvement.

Berkman right now is essentially hitting like Thames for his career (higher OBP but lower slugging). At this point they are near a wash. The Yankees are just hoping he returns to form and hits well above .800 OPS. If not, he is a slower Thames with almost zero ability to play the field.

scott91575
08-19-2010, 11:48 PM
After a stellar slash line of .179/.273/.282, the Yanks have placed Berkman on the 15 day DL.

texasdave
08-19-2010, 11:55 PM
After a stellar slash line of .179/.273/.282, the Yanks have placed Berkman on the 15 day DL.

Berkman has, admittedly, stunk up the place.