PDA

View Full Version : Chone Figgins?



GoReds
08-01-2010, 09:11 PM
He's not having a good year for the M's, but he is still getting on base at a .334 clip. The M's would like to move him and IF his defense is good enough to play some short, he could be a better leadoff option.

Figgins is also good enough to cover 3rd should Rolen spend more time nursing injuries. I'm willing to bet a change of scenery would do wonders for him.

redsmetz
08-01-2010, 09:28 PM
To be honest with you, Jocketty doesn't agree with RZ's assessment that shortstop is a problem for this season. If this were the off-season, it might be another matter, but we're in a decent place with the shortstop arrangement we have.

edabbs44
08-01-2010, 09:32 PM
And he isn't a SS, never really was.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2010, 09:47 PM
After 3B he has played CF the most, could be a fit there if one wanted him.

jojo
08-02-2010, 08:43 AM
Figgins is the Ms third baseman next season and beyond. They don't want to move him.

BCubb2003
08-02-2010, 09:51 AM
He belongs on the Senseless Name team with Laynce Nix and Casey McGehee.

Cedric
08-02-2010, 10:30 AM
Figgins is the Ms third baseman next season and beyond. They don't want to move him.

Good luck to them with that! That team is horrendous.

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 11:12 AM
He belongs on the Senseless Name team with Laynce Nix and Casey McGehee.

Mariners have another candidate for that team, Justin Smoak

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Figgins is the Ms third baseman next season and beyond. They don't want to move him.

That's a good thing seeing as they signed him to a 4 yr contract for $36mill. The M's can keep that for another three yrs

westofyou
08-04-2010, 11:31 AM
He belongs on the Senseless Name team with Laynce Nix and Casey McGehee.

And chairman Graig Nettles

jojo
08-04-2010, 12:40 PM
That's a good thing seeing as they signed him to a 4 yr contract for $36mill. The M's can keep that for another three yrs

Yell scoreboard in the fourth quarter...not before the first tv time out... the archives will treat you better... :cool:

RichRed
08-04-2010, 01:17 PM
And chairman Graig Nettles

He can sit next to Jhonny Peralta.

LoganBuck
08-04-2010, 02:41 PM
Jhoulys Chacin says you can't even pronounce my name.

membengal
08-04-2010, 02:44 PM
That's a good thing seeing as they signed him to a 4 yr contract for $36mill. The M's can keep that for another three yrs

Word. That contract was roadkill the minute it was signed. It's only getting smellier as time passes.

jojo
08-04-2010, 04:30 PM
Word. That contract was roadkill the minute it was signed. It's only getting smellier as time passes.

What's your argument for that conclusion?

bucksfan2
08-04-2010, 04:32 PM
What's your argument for that conclusion?

Over the past couple of years have you disagreed with a move the Mariners made? They are one of the worst teams in baseball yet you defend them like their run like the Rays.

jojo
08-04-2010, 04:35 PM
Over the past couple of years have you disagreed with a move the Mariners made? They are one of the worst teams in baseball yet you defend them like their run like the Rays.

Yes I have (disagreed). It's super easy to find examples too so please be a gentleman and do a little homework (i.e. search the archives), before lobbing labels like "biased".

Funny you should mention the Rays too....

membengal
08-04-2010, 04:36 PM
What's your argument for that conclusion?

I don't owe you anything.

Thanks, but again, I refuse to play your passive aggressive games.

jojo
08-04-2010, 04:39 PM
I don't owe you anything.

Thanks, but again, I refuse to play your passive aggressive games.

There's nothing passive aggressive about asking why someone might think such a strongly stated opinion. It is a Chone Figgins thread after all....

jojo
08-04-2010, 04:48 PM
The Ms wanted a person with significantly above average on base skills who plays plus defense with the flexibility to play 3b, 2b and even the outfield so he was an obvious target. The Ms are paying Figgins like he'll be on average a 2.5 WAR player over the next four seasons. Basically they're saying he's at best a tick above major league average.

For his career he's been basically a league average bat in Anaheim and a slightly plus defender. Jeeps they got a guy coming off of a career year to sign a FA contract that seems to value him almost perfectly (and significantly less than his career year numbers) based upon an estimate of his true skill. How is his contract obviously roadkill the minute it was inked and why does half a season make it even worse than that? How the heck can the above argument be construed as invalid because of bias?????

TheNext44
08-04-2010, 06:08 PM
All I know is that if the Reds picked up Figgins off of waivers, contract and all, I would be happy.

He's likely to provide excess value over his contract over it's length, and would be a good fit for this team. He can play left until Rolen moves on, and fill in for him until then. He would make a great top of the order bat.

PuffyPig
08-04-2010, 06:12 PM
All I know is that if the Reds picked up Figgins off of waivers, contract and all, I would be happy.



AT $9M per season, no thanks.

Not even close.

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 09:11 PM
The Ms are paying Figgins like he'll be on average a 2.5 WAR player over the next four seasons. Basically they're saying he's at best a tick above major league average.


If the M's were banking on him being a tick over ML avg then they were idiots to give him $36mill at $9mill per.

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 09:15 PM
All I know is that if the Reds picked up Figgins off of waivers, contract and all, I would be happy.

He's likely to provide excess value over his contract over it's length, and would be a good fit for this team. He can play left until Rolen moves on, and fill in for him until then. He would make a great top of the order bat.


Sure you would because it's not your money. Have you given any thought as to how $9mill a yr would impact our team? He would be the highest paid position player on the team. Do you think he's worth more than Scott Rolen? More than Brandon Phillips?

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 09:19 PM
Over the past couple of years have you disagreed with a move the Mariners made? They are one of the worst teams in baseball yet you defend them like their run like the Rays.

Yeah, he never has and that's what makes his posts so entertaining. Exposing homers is a great past time of mine. If I was an Ms fan I'd say things like "I love my team but I hate how they've traded away Soriano, A Jones and Morrow while they spend $36mill on Figgins."

TheNext44
08-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Sure you would because it's not your money. Have you given any thought as to how $9mill a yr would impact our team? He would be the highest paid position player on the team. Do you think he's worth more than Scott Rolen? More than Brandon Phillips?

This year, he puts the Reds over their budget, but there are only two months left, so I would think they could afford him. The Reds can afford him next season and beyond, and with ease.

I think the number one priority for next season is a high OBP guy for the top of the lineup, one that fits Baker's idea of one. Figgins is one of the few guys in the league who do. I would rather the Reds spend that money on that than anything else, even a starting pitcher. I think a back of the rotation vet would all that is needed for the rotation next year and they come pretty cheap.

Figgins the last three years has been a solid 4 win player. He is having a bad year this year, but his OBP is still pretty high. I think if he were to come to GABP, he'll be a four win player again.

His real value comes with his defense and ability to play many positions. With him on the team the Reds wouldn't have to worry about resting Rolen, or Votto or Phillips.

I really don't care who gets paid more than who. Votto has one of the lowest salaries on the team, as does Cueto. Do I care that Ramon Hernandez makes more than the two of them combined? Why should I? I just care that each player is worth what they are paid, and hope they are worth more.

Mario-Rijo
08-04-2010, 10:09 PM
Ya know Jojo has defended his M's alot but I have agreed with nearly everything Jack Z has done including Figgins. I don't think Jojo defended everything Bavasi did so hard to fault him IMO. Though I wouldn't have given Figgins 4 years (plus an option year) on that deal, 2 or 3 even perhaps (with an option if they demanded a 4th year). He was gonna be 32 coming into this season and 31 is where I think guys start to slowly downturn in their physical abilities and his greatest asset is his speed.

All that said I don't think it was a bad deal it may be turning out that way however hard to say at this point.

hebroncougar
08-04-2010, 10:20 PM
Picking up Figgins would be a very foolish thing for a team like the Reds to do. He's on the downside, and likely will continue declining. In short, he's a money pit.

PuffyPig
08-04-2010, 10:45 PM
This year, he puts the Reds over their budget, but there are only two months left, so I would think they could afford him. The Reds can afford him next season and beyond, and with ease.



The Reds can afford some players making $9M, but can afford no player "with ease".

There is much better use of that $9M.

Sea Ray
08-04-2010, 10:49 PM
This year, he puts the Reds over their budget, but there are only two months left, so I would think they could afford him. The Reds can afford him next season and beyond, and with ease.

I think the number one priority for next season is a high OBP guy for the top of the lineup, one that fits Baker's idea of one. Figgins is one of the few guys in the league who do. I would rather the Reds spend that money on that than anything else, even a starting pitcher. I think a back of the rotation vet would all that is needed for the rotation next year and they come pretty cheap.

Figgins the last three years has been a solid 4 win player. He is having a bad year this year, but his OBP is still pretty high. I think if he were to come to GABP, he'll be a four win player again.

His real value comes with his defense and ability to play many positions. With him on the team the Reds wouldn't have to worry about resting Rolen, or Votto or Phillips.

I really don't care who gets paid more than who. Votto has one of the lowest salaries on the team, as does Cueto. Do I care that Ramon Hernandez makes more than the two of them combined? Why should I? I just care that each player is worth what they are paid, and hope they are worth more.


You don't seem to understand the challenges of running a baseball team in Cincinnati. Our finances are very limited. They would have to budget Figgins' salary very carefully. They can't afford many $9mill players. He's signed for another three yrs. In that time the Reds will have to start paying big money to Phillips, Cueto, Votto and possibly Bruce, Leake and Wood.

I like Chone and agree with you that his numbers would pickup nicely at GABP. What I don't like is commiting $36mill to him. We'll be on the hook for a lot of dough when Votto comes due. We're already on the hook for some decent change where Phillips and Rolen are concerned.

Rolen and Phillips will cost us $18.5 mill in yr three of Figgins contract, 2012. Let's say Votto will cost us $8.5mill. That's $27mill plus $9mill for Chone and you've got 50% of our payroll tied up in just four players--none of which are pitchers. You can't fit the rest of this team into the remaining $36mill. It doesn't work. Do the math.

TheNext44
08-04-2010, 11:19 PM
You don't seem to understand the challenges of running a baseball team in Cincinnati. Our finances are very limited. They would have to budget Figgins' salary very carefully. They can't afford many $9mill players. He's signed for another three yrs. In that time the Reds will have to start paying big money to Phillips, Cueto, Votto and possibly Bruce, Leake and Wood.

I like Chone and agree with you that his numbers would pickup nicely at GABP. What I don't like is commiting $36mill to him. We'll be on the hook for a lot of dough when Votto comes due. We're already on the hook for some decent change where Phillips and Rolen are concerned.

Rolen and Phillips will cost us $18.5 mill in yr three of Figgins contract, 2012. Let's say Votto will cost us $8.5mill. That's $27mill plus $9mill for Chone and you've got 50% of our payroll tied up in just four players--none of which are pitchers. You can't fit the rest of this team into the remaining $36mill. It doesn't work. Do the math.

The math is that the Reds have between $10-12M to spend, worst case scenario in terms of arbitration, next season, if they keep the payroll at it's current level. If they raise payroll, which is highly likely since attendance is on the rise, it could be more. If they negotiate with the arb guys, it could be more.

There is plenty of room for another big contract. Whether Figgins is that contract is debatable, but I like him for it.

BTW, the current team has three players, Cordero, Harang and Arroyo making up half if it's payroll. It's pretty hard to build a team without a few big contracts. They key is getting the right ones.

jojo
08-05-2010, 07:51 AM
If the M's were banking on him being a tick over ML avg then they were idiots to give him $36mill at $9mill per.

Why do you argue this?

jojo
08-05-2010, 08:09 AM
Yeah, he never has and that's what makes his posts so entertaining. Exposing homers is a great past time of mine. If I was an Ms fan I'd say things like "I love my team but I hate how they've traded away Soriano, A Jones and Morrow while they spend $36mill on Figgins."

Again, this is completely factually incorrect.

Why don't you see what I had to say about things like Soriano, Jones, Morrow etc before using my posting history as an argument for why one should completely ignore a rational argument that Figgins' contract couldn't accurately be characterized as obvious roadkill from start based upon an estimate of true skill regardless of which team signed him to it...

Snark is only effective when its grounded in truth. When it's not grounded in truth, snark is more like the lingering odor of skunk spray...

Sea Ray
08-05-2010, 08:32 AM
Why do you argue this?

Seeing as the avg player in baseball makes less than $3mill, it's idiotic to pay a guy "a tick over avg" three times that

jojo
08-05-2010, 08:34 AM
Seeing as the avg player in baseball makes less than $3mill, it's idiotic to pay a guy "a tick over avg" three times that

You confusing several concepts.

Sea Ray
08-05-2010, 08:39 AM
The math is that the Reds have between $10-12M to spend, worst case scenario in terms of arbitration, next season, if they keep the payroll at it's current level. If they raise payroll, which is highly likely since attendance is on the rise, it could be more. If they negotiate with the arb guys, it could be more.

There is plenty of room for another big contract. Whether Figgins is that contract is debatable, but I like him for it.

BTW, the current team has three players, Cordero, Harang and Arroyo making up half if it's payroll. It's pretty hard to build a team without a few big contracts. The key is getting the right ones.

It's really hard to compete with three guys making half your payroll. That's not a recipe for success. The only reason the Reds are able to do it is because they have so many good pre-arbitration guys.

You obviously didn't do the math homework assignment. Get out a piece of paper. Start with Rolen, Votto, Figgins and Phillips at $36mill. Then try to fit Bruce, Hanigan, Cueto, and another 21 guys into the remaining $36mill. It's real tough.

You're right. The Figgins bat is debatable and that's what we're doing here. If we have an extra $10mill to spend, then we ought to spend it on pitching, not Figgins. That's what I'm arguing

Sea Ray
08-05-2010, 08:40 AM
You confusing several concepts.

Care to explain?

jojo
08-05-2010, 08:41 AM
Care to explain?

Since I've written mounds on these issues, for you, I'm going to suggest that you search the archives. It will be good practice for your search skills.

Sea Ray
08-05-2010, 08:47 AM
Since I've written mounds on these issues, for you, I'm going to suggest that you search the archives. It will be good practice for your search skills.

That's what I figured you'd say. Your posts lack substance but they are very predictable

remdog
08-05-2010, 09:54 AM
Having watched a lot of Figgy during his days in Anaheim I have to say that I enjoyed his play and felt he was an asset to the Angels. However, the Angels, which is a very smart organization with a lot bigger budget than the Reds, felt he wasn't a $9M/4year asset at this stage in his career and let him walk. I agree with the Angels.

Rem

RichRed
08-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Yeah, he never has and that's what makes his posts so entertaining. Exposing homers is a great past time of mine.

You've "exposed" no one so get over yourself. You are quite adept at being condescending and patronizing, however, so congratulations on that accomplishment.

Sea Ray
08-05-2010, 10:20 AM
Having watched a lot of Figgy during his days in Anaheim I have to say that I enjoyed his play and felt he was an asset to the Angels. However, the Angels, which is a very smart organization with a lot bigger budget than the Reds, felt he wasn't a $9M/4year asset at this stage in his career and let him walk. I agree with the Angels.

Rem

Exactly my point. I like Figgins, just not at $36mill. Today's baseball pretty much always comes down to bang for the buck and that's where this deal falls short.

Chip R
08-05-2010, 10:27 AM
Let's keep this on topic and stop attacking other posters.