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arkimadee
08-02-2010, 02:19 PM
Phillips 4,
Cabrera 6,
Cairo 3,
Rolen 5,
Gomes 7,
Bruce 9,
Heisey 8,
Hanigan 2,
Wood LHP

arkimadee
08-02-2010, 02:20 PM
it looks like Stubbs may have lost his job to Heisey

GIDP
08-02-2010, 02:23 PM
I never understand why Dusty clings onto his worst players so hard.

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Holy bowl of cereal.

Cairo batting third, eh? :laugh:

bshall2105
08-02-2010, 02:25 PM
There isn't anything wrong with Joey is there?

GIDP
08-02-2010, 02:27 PM
Travis Wood is a fly ball pitcher. i wonder why Dusty puts his worst defensive outfield in there. Oh wait why am I asking, he does the same thing with leake despite the GB%. Basically he just doesnt care.

knoonan991
08-02-2010, 02:29 PM
I like the lineup, it's nice to be able to give Joey an off day before the Cards series. I don't mind Cairo hitting 3rd at all actually.

Heisey is getting much deserved playing time.

An all around :thumbup: from me.

arkimadee
08-02-2010, 02:30 PM
i'm not a fan of cairo batting third but he proves me wrong time and time again so i'll save my complaints

knoonan991
08-02-2010, 02:33 PM
I never understand why Dusty clings onto his worst players so hard.

I'm not sure who you are suggesting, but Heisey is indeed starting over Stubbs.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm not sure who you are suggesting, but Heisey is indeed starting over Stubbs.

Gomes, Cabrera and Stubbs are his 3rd worst regulars. Cabrera and Gomes are basically untouchable by Dusty.

Then he goes at puts Cairo 3rd on a day he gives Votto off... Clinging to his worst players.

bshall2105
08-02-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm not sure who you are suggesting, but Heisey is indeed starting over Stubbs.

He's probably suggesting Gomes.

knoonan991
08-02-2010, 02:40 PM
Gomes, Cabrera and Stubbs are his 3rd worst regulars. Cabrera and Gomes are basically untouchable by Dusty.

Then he goes at puts Cairo 3rd on a day he gives Votto off... Clinging to his worst players.

1. Cabrera has a 5 game hitting streak, and has played much better since the ASB.

2. I'm not sure Nix is much of an improvement over Gomes, he's the only other OF left on the bench.

3. Cairo has been far from the Reds worst player this year.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 02:42 PM
1. Cabrera has a 5 game hitting streak, and has played much better since the ASB.

2. I'm not sure Nix is much of an improvement over Gomes, he's the only other OF left on the bench.

3. Cairo has been far from the Reds worst player this year.

This isnt just a last few days thing. Hes been doing it all year long. He has guys he loves for no reason.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Argh...we better win this game, make the game thread the last two days and we win lol..

Cairo batting 3rd??!?!??! WTH is that Dusty?!!??

bshall2105
08-02-2010, 02:52 PM
Argh...we better win this game, make the game thread the last two days and we win lol..

Cairo batting 3rd??!?!??! WTH is that Dusty?!!??

Who else would do any better?

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 03:07 PM
Who else would do any better?

Rolen, Phillips?

GIDP
08-02-2010, 03:15 PM
Votto

I mean does he need a day off? He has to be injured. He had a day off a few days ago, and again when Ramon came off the DL. If hes not injured then Dusty is trying to hard.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 03:15 PM
I mean Orlando Cabrera has started 3 more games than Votto has this year and hes 10 years older.

brm7675
08-02-2010, 03:58 PM
Okay so we are giving Votto a night, why not, no problem with that, and playing Cairo at first, why not. But in gods sake, can our manager not make out a linuep card? I mean really just because Cairo is playing in Votto's spot, that doesn't mean according to baseball rules that he has to bat in the same spot? Also, if Votto needs a rest, why doesn't Orlando need one? What about giving Gomes a night off and get Heisey a game or two? 12 games up is great, a good manager and we are in the TB/SD/NYY range for results...

GIDP
08-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Votto has "tweaked" his wrist apparently. I figured it had to be an injury.

1990REDS
08-02-2010, 04:12 PM
if your gonna take votto (by far your best offensive weapon) out of the lineup wouldnt you at least want your best defence out thier. I think with no votto, stubbs should be in for Gomes and Janish for Ocab. my 2 cents.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 04:13 PM
I would certainly be looking to give Gomes his fair share of off days until he shows that hes not a .700 OPS bat with bad defense.

davereds24
08-02-2010, 04:15 PM
You whine about OCab every single thread, give it a rest. He's a major reason the Reds are playing so well after the break, who cares what he did in June.

I don't see a problem with Cairo in the 3 hole. Why move everyone around, keep them in their normal role. Cairo has done more than enough to prove he can bat 3rd for a game.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 04:21 PM
You whine about OCab every single thread, give it a rest. He's a major reason the Reds are playing so well after the break, who cares what he did in June.

I don't see a problem with Cairo in the 3 hole. Why move everyone around, keep them in their normal role. Cairo has done more than enough to prove he can bat 3rd for a game.

Yea we should just ignore that his OPS pre all star break was .612

Thankfully for this hot streak hes worked it all the way up to .643

Excuse me while I jump for joy.

bshall2105
08-02-2010, 04:22 PM
Everybody get ready for Yonder Alonso.

1990REDS
08-02-2010, 04:24 PM
You whine about OCab every single thread, give it a rest. He's a major reason the Reds are playing so well after the break, who cares what he did in June.

I don't see a problem with Cairo in the 3 hole. Why move everyone around, keep them in their normal role. Cairo has done more than enough to prove he can bat 3rd for a game.

i have no problem with ciaro in thier, i just think this has a chance of being a low scoring game and i would want my best D in thier. Im just a D guy and with a young pitcher like wood i want to give him every opportunity to be succesfull. you either do that with a strong O which we dont have without votto, or the best D you can put out thier.

markymark69
08-02-2010, 04:31 PM
Okay so we are giving Votto a night, why not, no problem with that, and playing Cairo at first, why not. But in gods sake, can our manager not make out a linuep card? I mean really just because Cairo is playing in Votto's spot, that doesn't mean according to baseball rules that he has to bat in the same spot? Also, if Votto needs a rest, why doesn't Orlando need one? What about giving Gomes a night off and get Heisey a game or two? 12 games up is great, a good manager and we are in the TB/SD/NYY range for results...

If you are referring to tonight's line-up. Votto is hurt (wrist) and Heisey is playing center for Stubbs. What's the problem? Who do you bat third - with what they have in the line-up?

I'm glad you complained. Because the last two complaints about the line-up produced big wins for the Reds.

I continue to be amazed at all the ways that people can complain about this team - I'm glad their not 12 games under - some of you may commit suicide.

Roush's socks
08-02-2010, 04:37 PM
Dusty is a guy who believes in "lineup chemistry" and he doesn't want to disrupt the flow, so he puts Cairo in Votto's spot. I don't think it matters if Cairo is batting 2nd,3rd or even 7th. The lineup seems pretty OK to me.

brm7675
08-02-2010, 04:42 PM
Given today's lineup I go with:

Phillips - 2nd
Hanigan - Catcher
Rolen - 3rd
Gomes - LF
Cairo - 1st
Bruce - RF
Heisey - CF
Orlando - SS
Wood - Pitching.

UPRedsFan
08-02-2010, 04:42 PM
Cairo's batting 3rd because of the I'm sorry Cairo thread. Dusty felt bad for him too.

Seriously, the thinking must be that with Votto out, he needs Gomes' power in the lineup more than Stubbs defense.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 04:46 PM
Cairo's batting 3rd because of the I'm sorry Cairo thread. Dusty felt bad for him too.

Seriously, the thinking must be that with Votto out, he needs Gomes' power in the lineup more than Stubbs defense.

Funny thing is stubbs had a higher slugging last month than Gomes did.

markymark69
08-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Given today's lineup I go with:

Phillips - 2nd
Hanigan - Catcher
Rolen - 3rd
Gomes - LF
Cairo - 1st
Bruce - RF
Heisey - CF
Orlando - SS
Wood - Pitching.

Fine. Much ado about nothing, again. The order really only matters once. After that, the player is expected to execute whenever he comes to plate, whether he's 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

757690
08-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Fine. Much ado about nothing, again. The order really only matters once. After that, the player is expected to execute whenever he comes to plate, whether he's 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

Exactly. Lineup construction is about as important as whose locker is next to each in the clubhouse.

bshall2105
08-02-2010, 05:03 PM
Funny thing is stubbs had a higher slugging last month than Gomes did.

Because of 1 more homerun. He hit them all in 2 games so it's misleading. He wasn't much better than Gomes at the plate if at all.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 05:04 PM
Exactly. Lineup construction is about as important as whose locker is next to each in the clubhouse.

I simply dont believe that. I understand some people do but to say that is that unimportant just rubs me the wrong way.

757690
08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
From Fay:


Joey Votto tweaked his wrist swinging at a pitch yesterday.

ďI donít think itís serious. Hopefully, Iíll be back in soon,Ē he said.

I don't like the sound of that. Wrist are kinda important to hitters.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 05:07 PM
Because of 1 more homerun. He hit them all in 2 games so it's misleading. He wasn't much better than Gomes at the plate if at all.

They were comparable last month. I dont really care to get into the debate I was just pointing it out because I thought it was kinda surprising.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 05:10 PM
From Fay:



I don't like the sound of that. Wrist are kinda important to hitters.

nerves engaged:(

1990REDS
08-02-2010, 05:12 PM
Exactly. Lineup construction is about as important as whose locker is next to each in the clubhouse.

Fine. Much ado about nothing, again. The order really only matters once. After that, the player is expected to execute whenever he comes to plate, whether he's 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

So you dont believe in putting guys with high OB% in front of guys that hit well with RISP? Or putting guys that make contact and are good situational hitters behind guys that get on base? Im not tryin to call you guys out or anything just curious your opinion on why you think its so unimportant. Im not sayin lineups are the end all be all, but i do think they do have some stratigical (sp?) importance.

757690
08-02-2010, 05:19 PM
So you dont believe in putting guys with high OB% in front of guys that hit well with RISP? Or putting guys that make contact and are good situational hitters behind guys that get on base? Im not tryin to call ya out or anything just curious your opinion on why you think its so unimportant. Im not sayin lineups are the end all be all, but i do think they do have some stratigical (sp?) importance.

They do have some, and your points are good examples of them. But over the course of a year, the difference between Dusty's lineup, and the one's proposed on this site, is around 3-4 runs, if that. And that is if the same lineup is used everyday. Since the lineup changes on a day to day basis, due to injuries, days off, match ups and such, luck has more to due with how successful a lineup is than anything else.

brm7675
08-02-2010, 05:26 PM
Since the lineup changes on a day to day basis, due to injuries, days off, match ups and such, luck has more to due with how successful a lineup is than anything else.

Your kidding right?:thumbdown

757690
08-02-2010, 05:33 PM
Your kidding right?:thumbdown

A certain lineup is used maybe 10-20 times in a given season. That is not enough times for things to average out. Even if a lineup is used 50 times, that is not enough times for things to average out.

The opposing pitcher, the ballpark, the weather, certain hot and cold streaks of players and other luck factors of when each lineup is used will have more of an impact on the effectiveness of a certain lineup than the actual lineup construction.

brm7675
08-02-2010, 05:53 PM
A certain lineup is used maybe 10-20 times in a given season. That is not enough times for things to average out. Even if a lineup is used 50 times, that is not enough times for things to average out.

The opposing pitcher, the ballpark, the weather, certain hot and cold streaks of players and other luck factors of when each lineup is used will have more of an impact on the effectiveness of a certain lineup than the actual lineup construction.

I am willing to bet that totally, Dusty has used maybe 5-6 different lineup cards throughout this entire season. The lineup card is key and if not why not just bat them in order of thier position

Wood
hanigan'
Cairo
Phillips
Rolen
Orlando
Gomes
heisey
Bruce

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 06:30 PM
I got a feeling Keels will be on this trip

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 06:58 PM
Thank God..Thom is calling the game

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:08 PM
marty is calling it on radio..I love hearing marty.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:09 PM
Nice AB Brandon!!

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:09 PM
Walk to BP. Nice start.

davereds24
08-02-2010, 07:09 PM
No reason they shouldn't be able to blow out the Pirates tonight

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:09 PM
OCAB UP!!

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:10 PM
3-0 to ocab...

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:10 PM
7 straight out of the strike zone from Ohlendorf.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:11 PM
Back to back walks.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:11 PM
walked him..2 on for cairo..

757690
08-02-2010, 07:11 PM
I am willing to bet that totally, Dusty has used maybe 5-6 different lineup cards throughout this entire season. The lineup card is key and if not why not just bat them in order of thier position

Wood
hanigan'
Cairo
Phillips
Rolen
Orlando
Gomes
heisey
Bruce

Well, you were close. The Reds have used 73 different lineups as of today's game. Missed it by that much. ;)

And concerning using a lineup based on the position a player plays...

That lineup above would score 4.66 runs a game according to the Lineup Analysis on Baseball Musings, if used every day. That would mean 754 total runs for the season.

The lineup you suggested in this thread would score 4.68 runs a game according to the Lineup Analysis on Baseball Musings, if used every day. That would mean 758 total.

So your lineup vs. one that is completely random and has the pitcher leading off, would result in a whopping 4 extra runs over the course of the season.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:11 PM
need to score here...

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:13 PM
can't waste chances like this..

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:14 PM
Cairo knocks in Phillips yay

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:14 PM
At a boy Miguel!!!!!! Humm KId!!

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:14 PM
1-0 baby

knoonan991
08-02-2010, 07:15 PM
Cairo shouldn't be batting 3rd?

Thanks Dusty:thumbup:

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:15 PM
come on rolen...

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:16 PM
he's paying attention to the baserunners tonight..

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:16 PM
The Pirates announcers were just saying how lucky it was not to have Votto in the lineup. It would be sweet to pick Votto up tonight, and score lots w/o him!

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:17 PM
Swing and a miss. One down.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:18 PM
come on gomes..

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:19 PM
OUCH

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:19 PM
that was a nice play..

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Hard hit ball off the pitcher's leg that caroms to the first baseman. Two down. 2nd and 3rd.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:20 PM
here comes the strikeout king..

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:21 PM
he's happy it didn't hit him in the head! :|

(reds have best bullpen ERA since the break, just learned that, should've figured it)

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:21 PM
Easy K here

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:22 PM
One time, Bruce.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:22 PM
K-Jay.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:22 PM
marty is ripping bruce and stubbs..

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:22 PM
He sucks..jesus Jay

crazyjdawg
08-02-2010, 07:23 PM
Leave it to Gomes and Bruce to kill an offensive surge.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:24 PM
you're going to blame Gomes for shooting one up the middle, that happen to have caught the pitchers leg?

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:25 PM
Rolen Gomes and Bruce put forth great efforts

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:25 PM
Rolen Gomes and Bruce put forth great efforts

Gomes hit a missle up the middle..how is it his fault?

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:26 PM
Bruce with a nice catch. one down.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:28 PM
Reds' pitching staff had the best ERA in the league in July by a not insignificant margin. 3.06.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:28 PM
Gomes hit a missle up the middle..how is it his fault?

Well he swung at a low outside pitch for one, and most likely it was goin to be a DP if it didnt hit the pitcher. Either way it was a bad AB. It wasnt as bad as Bruce and Rolen but still it was not exactly good.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:29 PM
Reds' pitching staff had a 5.41 ERA in the month of April. It is now down to 4.06 on the season. That is a serious improvement. That works out to a 3.67 ERA the last three months. That will win a team some ballgames.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:33 PM
1-0 after 1 full.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:34 PM
Easy breezy beautiful in the first.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:35 PM
Reds' pitching staff had a 5.41 ERA in the month of April. It is now down to 4.06 on the season. That is a serious improvement. That works out to a 3.67 ERA the last three months. That will win a team some ballgames.

It went from basically the worst in baseball to average to top 3 now. month by month lol. Pretty impressive turn around.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:37 PM
If ever there was proof that a new stadium won't guarantee a winner, the Pirates and even Reds, to a degree, are that proof.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:37 PM
At least they are making Ohlendorf work tonight.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:37 PM
Heisey with a leadoff line drive double. I think Heisey is from Pennsylvania. Maybe he is showing off a little.

Lockdwn11
08-02-2010, 07:38 PM
I am willing to bet that totally, Dusty has used maybe 5-6 different lineup cards throughout this entire season. The lineup card is key and if not why not just bat them in order of thier position

Wood
hanigan'
Cairo
Phillips
Rolen
Orlando
Gomes
heisey
Bruce

If that is the case Dusty's Lineups seem to be working.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:38 PM
great AB by heisey, let's go Hanigan drive him home!

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:38 PM
that is why he should start over stubbs...

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:39 PM
I hope Heisey has a great start and earns himself a few more.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:39 PM
Ohlendorf falls behind 3-0.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:39 PM
3-0 to hanigan...

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:39 PM
already @ 40 pitches too

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:40 PM
Maybe he will get his 4th start in LF tomorrow.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:40 PM
nice Heisey!

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:40 PM
Heisey tagging and heading to third. I wonder if Wood squeezes?

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:40 PM
Take that base! Great result.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:41 PM
Send a dribbler to the right side Travis.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:41 PM
gosh hanigan smoked that ball..

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:41 PM
No squeeze unless Wood is trying to fool them.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:42 PM
Wrong side of the IF ... eh. 2 out, runner on third.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:42 PM
this is a rare situation where you would have been better with the pitcher batting 8th. I usually disagree with it. (glad we don't do it)

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:43 PM
st louis does..

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:46 PM
Phillips with two walks in two innings. OCab to the plate. 50 pitches for Ohlendorf.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:46 PM
Great AB by Phillips. He swung at ball four on the 3-0 delivery, but I'm not opposed to him getting hacks trying to get the runner in, and he ended up on first anyways.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:47 PM
makin' him work, he'll be lucky to last 5.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 07:47 PM
Brandon Phillips walks in his first two plate appearances?

How many years has it been since that's happened?

How many years has it been since the top-2 batters in a REDS' lineup walked in their first 3 plate appearances? Has to be years.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:48 PM
Gonna walk OCab again too.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:48 PM
And as much as we like Votto I'm fairly sure Cairo sees more pitches. Votto is great on the first pitch, so no complaints, just sayin'.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:48 PM
Cabrera ahead 3-0. Danger Danger

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 07:48 PM
This guy couldn't hit the broad side of a barn as they say.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:49 PM
Ball four.

nouseforaname
08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
Why are you swinging at the first pitch after 2 straight walks?

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
Cmon Miguel...8 balls in 9 pitches and u hack at the 1st one!!

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
we have stranded 5 through 2..

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
Cairos AB is one of those that just flat out pisses me off about this reds team.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
And as much as we like Votto I'm fairly sure Cairo sees more pitches. Votto is great on the first pitch, so no complaints, just sayin'.

:thumbdown

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:51 PM
Does that qualify as a professional at-bat?

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 07:51 PM
Holy bowl of cereal.

Cairo batting third, eh? :laugh:

It is funny, isn't it?

Ohlendorf couldn't throw a strike if his life depended on it, and Cairo gets out on the 1st pitch.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:52 PM
Travis only needs one run.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 07:52 PM
i'm not a fan of cairo batting third but he proves me wrong time and time again so i'll save my complaints

After that at-bat....

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Probably no Votto tomorrow night per Dr. Fay.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 07:54 PM
Who else would do any better?

Anyone but Bruce and Stubbs.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 07:57 PM
i have no problem with ciaro in thier, i just think this has a chance of being a low scoring game and i would want my best D in thier. Im just a D guy and with a young pitcher like wood i want to give him every opportunity to be succesfull. you either do that with a strong O which we dont have without votto, or the best D you can put out thier.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Reds
08-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Joey Votto said he tweaked his right wrist. Reds manager Dusty Baker said Votto sprained it.

While Baker’s version sounds more serious, both he and Votto were hopeful that Votto would be back in the lineup in a day or two.

“We hope so,” Dusty Baker said. “It’s been bothering him for three days. If you don’t take care of it, it can only get worse, especially every time you check swing. It’s a sprain. Right now, were on a day-to-day”

Said Votto: “It’s not serious. Hopefully, Ill be back soon.”

...

Votto was checked by Dr. Tim Kremchek Sunday. X-rays were negative.

...

The Reds would rather play short than have a healthy player on the disabled list for a week.

"

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Ruh-roh. Did someone say day-to-day?

GIDP
08-02-2010, 07:58 PM
Anyone but Bruce and Stubbs.
Gomes OPS by month
.620
1.056
.704
.674

I realize you guys hate Stubbs and Bruce so much taht you wish they wouldnt even be allowed to live in Cincinnati but do you guys legitamately think they are bigger problems than Gomes? I mean honestly... All 3 are going bad right now but lets not get silly.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 07:59 PM
You would think they have to start swinging the bat better soon.

mlh1981
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
aren't those shirts gramatically incorrect? :D

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
Rolen Ks on ball four. Gomes to the plate.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
So you dont believe in putting guys with high OB% in front of guys that hit well with RISP? Or putting guys that make contact and are good situational hitters behind guys that get on base? Im not tryin to call you guys out or anything just curious your opinion on why you think its so unimportant. Im not sayin lineups are the end all be all, but i do think they do have some stratigical (sp?) importance.

You're making too much sense.

Stop it.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
You would think they have to start swinging the bat better soon.

Certainly, but while they struggle they are still at least bringing a glove. I hope Bruce gets back to being the .825-.850 OPS guy he was 3 months prior to July.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:01 PM
this guy is terrible and we are not doing nothing except 1 run.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:02 PM
High off the right field wall, double for Jonny G.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
thought it was gone // he can't get to 100, trying to emulate AROD.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
gosh that was close to being gone..ohh well, it won't matter bruce is up.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Hitter's count for Bruce.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Even if a lineup is used 50 times, that is not enough times for things to average out.



So, why even bother making up lineups in College, High School, American Legion, Pony League, Little League.

According to you, none of it matters and the Pitcher could bat first every game.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:04 PM
bruce will K like he normally does. the guy is worthless

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:04 PM
Full count..

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
And as much as we like Votto I'm fairly sure Cairo sees more pitches. Votto is great on the first pitch, so no complaints, just sayin'.

Votto pitches per AB: 3.93
Cairo pitches per AB: 3.67

It's close. Definitely not worth jumping on Cairo's case specifically as the worst offender as far as being a hacker goes.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
Base knock by Bruce, Gomes holds at third.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
a hit!?!? :eek:

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
the heck was that Gomes...

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
a hit? wow a hit?

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
heisey up with a rbi chance.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Runner on third less than two outs. Let's see.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Well, you were close. The Reds have used 73 different lineups as of today's game. Missed it by that much. ;)

And concerning using a lineup based on the position a player plays...

That lineup above would score 4.66 runs a game according to the Lineup Analysis on Baseball Musings, if used every day. That would mean 754 total runs for the season.

The lineup you suggested in this thread would score 4.68 runs a game according to the Lineup Analysis on Baseball Musings, if used every day. That would mean 758 total.

So your lineup vs. one that is completely random and has the pitcher leading off, would result in a whopping 4 extra runs over the course of the season.

Which shows you how stupid Baseball Musings and their Lineup Analysis is.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
I'm going to question Gomes hustle on the hit off the wall, he was doggin' it. It would've have changed anything tho.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Heisey hit...cmon Hanigan

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
HBP....bases juiced. 8 baserunners in 2 1/3.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
hanigan up with basesloaded...come on hanigan!!!

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
Bases jacked! Lets go Hanny!

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
time for a grand slam!!

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
God, Oherblowhard or whatever his name is, sucks a**. The sad thing is though, I'm getting flashbacks to Jimmy Anderson pitching for us. Ugh.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
need to get at least 1 here.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
or a two-run single.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:08 PM
yes, that works too.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Seems like the last 5 hits bruce has got with RISP the guys have been holding at 3rd.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:08 PM
I give up if we dont score here.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
don't give up. nothing we can do about it. we can't score for them.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Hanigan has turned into a pretty nice little hitter.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
we can't score for them man.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
It went from basically the worst in baseball to average to top 3 now. month by month lol. Pretty impressive turn around.

Amazing what can be accomplished when Harang is removed from the equation.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
I'm going to question Gomes hustle on the hit off the wall, he was doggin' it. It would've have changed anything tho.

He has to score from 2nd on that bruce hit. He didnt even make it to 3rd until Milledge bobbled the freakingthing.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:09 PM
That will work..nice job Rhino

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Why don't they attempt two?

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:10 PM
RBI ground out. Better than nothing.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:10 PM
that will work...2-0 reds.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Ohlendorf over 80 pitches.

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
I'm getting the Pirates feed....the Pirates color man has probably said "You have to get this man" atleast a dozen times so far..probably for a dozen or so batters.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Heisey with a leadoff line drive double. I think Heisey is from Pennsylvania. Maybe he is showing off a little.

Dusty started him last time they went to Pittsburgh for that reason.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
yeah, Ohlendorf ain't even gonna have a chance to win it, he won't make it 5 if we keep workin' him.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
2 zip after the top half of the third.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Why don't they attempt two?

It was a slow grounder down the line, no chance at a DP.

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:11 PM
83 pitches after 3 lol

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:13 PM
Amazing what can be accomplished when Harang is removed from the equation.

thats not really fair

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:14 PM
Brett Myers going for the Astros. 21 starts - 15 quality starts. Nice.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:15 PM
I wonder if Westbrook comes over and has success because NL hitters havent seen all that much of him?

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:16 PM
Gomes OPS by month
.620
1.056
.704
.674

I realize you guys hate Stubbs and Bruce so much taht you wish they wouldnt even be allowed to live in Cincinnati but do you guys legitamately think they are bigger problems than Gomes? I mean honestly... All 3 are going bad right now but lets not get silly.

In answer to the question of who would be better batting 3rd today, Gomes would be much better than Stubbs or Bruce based upon how all three are hitting the ball right now.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:16 PM
Ohlendorf Ks. Two away.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:17 PM
second time through the lineup, only 1 hit the first time through.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:18 PM
3 up 3 down. 7 in a row.

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:19 PM
In answer to the question of who would be better batting 3rd today, Gomes would be much better than Stubbs or Bruce bases upon how all three are hitting the ball right now.

Sorry but neither of them are hitting the ball right now. Atleast Bruce and Stubbs can offer good defense.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:19 PM
Wood looking good. Pirates offense has something like 3 runs in the last 40 innings.

5 in 40, my fault.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:19 PM
Hanigan has turned into a pretty nice little hitter.

Yes. It's not a fluke that his "BAbip" this season is 30 points higher than his career norm. It's the new Ryan Hanigan and we can expect this out of him.

GIDP
08-02-2010, 08:20 PM
In answer to the question of who would be better batting 3rd today, Gomes would be much better than Stubbs or Bruce bases upon how all three are hitting the ball right now.

Against the righty? Yea I'm going Bruce, but yea all 3 are bad right now. Gomes probably wouldn't even be in my line up though.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Phillips absolutely bruises a ball up the middle to get the leadoff runner on in the inning.

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Gotta love the Pirates announces. It's really clear they don't give a f*ck, and I really can't blame them.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:22 PM
Sorry but neither of them are hitting the ball right now. Atleast Bruce and Stubbs can offer good defense.

But, the question was who is likely to drive in runs by batting 3rd. Easily, the answer is Gomes. He still knocks in runs w/ RISP.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:24 PM
Against the righty? Yea I'm going Bruce, but yea all 3 are bad right now. Gomes probably wouldn't even be in my line up though.


Mine, either.

I'd have Heisey, Stubbs and Bruce and have a Hall-of-Fame Outfield Defense, especially with that deep Left-Center area in Pittsburgh's stadium.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:24 PM
Reds keep on moving the batters across the basepaths any way they can today. I like it.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:24 PM
yep sabo. 1 out, runner at 3rd, Ciaro up again

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:25 PM
And we keep manufacturing runs one-by-one. This is fine baseball folks.

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:25 PM
But, the question was who is likely to drive in runs by batting 3rd. Easily, the answer is Gomes. He still knocks in runs w/ RISP.

Yeah...in May. I would love to see his OPS w/ RISP since May. Guarantee you it's nothing to ride home about, and most likely nothing significantly better than Bruce.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:25 PM
Reds play small ball for a third run.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:25 PM
Nice sac fly! 3-0. we're doing the little things to score today.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:26 PM
yep sabo. 1 out, runner at 3rd, Ciaro up again

I can't believe I just got that "sabo"-metrics was referencing the great player who graced the cover of the October, 1990 Sports Illustrated.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1990/1029_mid.jpg

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:26 PM
Enjoying some 3-0 watermelon

redsfan_12
08-02-2010, 08:27 PM
Shut em down wood

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
What a great display of team baseball that inning.

Phillips base hit, stolen base.
Cabrera moves him to third.
Cairo drives him in.

Cabrera's stats will suffer for that at-bat, but he did his job as far as I'm concerned.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
... it's nothing to ride home about,

You can "write" home about it, but I wouldn't "ride" anywhere.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
st louis up 1-0 already.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
Back when I was a kid OCab would have also gotten credit for a sac fly.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
I can't believe I just got that "sabo"-metrics was referencing the great player who graced the cover of the October, 1990 Sports Illustrated.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1990/1029_mid.jpg

hahaha glad you solved the riddle.

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 08:29 PM
Back when I was a kid OCab would have also gotten credit for a sac fly.

I didn't realize that hitters used to get sac flies for that. You know when the rule changed?

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:30 PM
Not sure. Let me try to look that up.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:30 PM
Back when I was a kid OCab would have also gotten credit for a sac fly.

is that right? when did they change the rule?

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:30 PM
it is funny. the brewers and cubs get to beat up on each other for 3rd place..:D

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 08:31 PM
Travis Wood is here to stay.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:32 PM
The Pirates are the second youngest team in the majors (26 yrs). The only team younger is.. (waiting on trivia)..

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:33 PM
Travis Wood is here to stay.

I agree, but I wouldn't put this start as a reason why. The Pirates are horrible. I'm sure there are some AAA teams that could beat them on a regular basis.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:34 PM
Arizona?

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:34 PM
LOL. The all-time leader in most at-bats without a sac fly is Pete Rose (680 at-bats in 1973). He is tied with two others.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
Has to be either Arizona or Florida.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
I'm sure there are some AAA teams that could beat them on a regular basis.

I've watched enough of Durham Bulls games to think that's not true.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
tampa bay?

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
kc royals?

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 08:36 PM
The Pirates are horrible. I'm sure there are some AAA teams that could beat them on a regular basis.

I highly doubt that.

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:36 PM
Houston committed three errors in the first but the Cards only scored one run.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:37 PM
the youngest team in the majors is....

The Tribe, also 26, just days younger.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:37 PM
kc royals?

Just baseball-referenced it, top 5 are:

1. Arizona
2. Pittsburgh
3. Florida
4. Tampa Bay
5. Oakland

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2010, 08:38 PM
Is that up-to-date? Seems like the Indians got even younger in recent days.

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:38 PM
Just baseball-referenced it, top 5 are:

1. Arizona
2. Pittsburgh
3. Florida
4. Tampa Bay
5. Oakland

Youngest teams?

My guess is the Tribe got younger (got rid of Branyan and a few others I belive)

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Baseball-reference includes all players who have logged a MLB ab this year, which would lead to the difference. 25-man roster averages are probably different than what I pulled up.

edit: if you're wondering, the Tribe ranks sixth on B-R.com

Reds
08-02-2010, 08:40 PM
Right on, we got to the bottom of that pretty quick. :D

3-0 mid 5.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:43 PM
soo can we pick up a game on the giants tonight?

arkimadee
08-02-2010, 08:43 PM
anyone know woods pitch count?

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:44 PM
64 pitches or 63

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:44 PM
I agree, but I wouldn't put this start as a reason why. The Pirates are horrible. I'm sure there are some AAA teams that could beat them on a regular basis.

Everybody thought that Harang had turned it around because he did well against the Pirates.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:45 PM
wood has pitched soo much more better than harang though. and wood is a rookie...

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:45 PM
With Wood having had 6 of his 7 starts on the Road so far, and having faced several ACES, he deserves a day like today.

rolenmvp
08-02-2010, 08:45 PM
westbrook is pitching like a man-child up in st louis..

ILoveWilly
08-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Holy crap Wood!

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Protect yourself man!

nouseforaname
08-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Geez Travis, I loved seeing Ryan Freel do those antics, but not a starting pitcher!

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Can anyone imagine Harang making it to the rail in pursuit of a foul pop?
Or just about any other pitcher for that matter.

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Protect yourself man!

He's got to watch out for those baseball groupies in Pittsburgh.

nouseforaname
08-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Can anyone imagine Harang making it to the rail in pursuit of a foul pop?

Actually I can, and it is a pretty funny image.

BringDownMugabe
08-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Everybody thought that Harang had turned it around because he did well against the Pirates.

Pitched well? Harang went 6 IP allowing 5 runs and 10 baserunners. Can't imagine what that line would look like against a team that wasn't 30 games under .500 a little after the All Star break.

sabometrics
08-02-2010, 08:48 PM
He's got to watch out for those baseball groupies in Pittsburgh.

Yeah you never know what Chris Speier or Mark Berry are going to do :D

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Our bullpen needs a break.

Glad to see Travis getting deep into this game.

arkimadee
08-02-2010, 08:50 PM
good lord LaRoche... how long is this friggin atbat

Kingspoint
08-02-2010, 08:50 PM
We need more runs in order to remover Rhodes and Cordero from the equation tonight.

arkimadee
08-02-2010, 08:50 PM
and this one belongs to travis wood

texasdave
08-02-2010, 08:51 PM
Finally gets Laroche. Two down.