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View Full Version : Homer Bailey for closer



ILoveWilly
08-07-2010, 04:07 PM
Do it. Now.

Vottomatic
08-07-2010, 04:13 PM
Why can't they demote Cordero and have a meeting with him.

1. Tell him his control has become a huge issue and he needs time to work on it. He will now be allocated to pitching in non-pressure situations until he proves he's regained his control and confidence.
2. Remind him we're in a pennant race and the team cannot afford to risk things and wait for him to straighten himself out.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

And if management continues to put up with his crap just because of $$$, then they disappoint me greatly.

Krawhitham
08-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Do it. Now.

NNNNNNOOOOOO

Batters are hitting .341 VS homer on his 1st 15 pitches (.423 OBP)

Pitches 16-30 they hit .293


Homers 1st inning is his worst

Krawhitham
08-07-2010, 04:18 PM
DL CoCo and bring Chapman up

103 MPH

mmt1552
08-07-2010, 04:21 PM
DL Cordero, bring up Chapman. Closer by committee with Rhodes/Massett. We don't have to have one set closer...if the bases are loaded in a close game in the 7th or 8th inning bring in the best guy (whoever that may be). Everybody in the bullpen is pitching well (besides Cordero), so that may be the best way.

10xWSChamps
08-07-2010, 04:22 PM
Do it. Now.

+1

sivman17
08-07-2010, 04:23 PM
Masset or Rhodes.

Reds
08-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Isringhausen has to come up at some point before the end of August. Not too sure what his role is going to be, any ideas?

bshall2105
08-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Isringhausen has to come up at some point before the end of August. Not too sure what his role is going to be, any ideas?

He does not have to come up and I honestly don't think he will. He's not better than anybody in our bullpen. He's probably the third or fourth best pitcher in the Bats' bullpen.

Reds
08-07-2010, 04:31 PM
He does not have to come up and I honestly don't think he will. He's not better than anybody in our bullpen. He's probably the third or fourth best pitcher in the Bats' bullpen.

If they want him to be playoff eligible they'll bring him up sometime before the 31st.

Krawhitham
08-07-2010, 04:34 PM
No one has to come up to play in the post season, all the reds have to do is DL someone and then any player in the organization can be called up as long as they were with the organization on AUG 31st

bshall2105
08-07-2010, 04:34 PM
If they want him to be playoff eligible they'll bring him up sometime before the 31st.

I know that. However, it looks like it may take him a while to really get going. If he's not pitching great before September I would just forget about him. I like Chapman, Burton, and maybe even Fisher more than Isringhausen.

Reds
08-07-2010, 04:37 PM
I know that. However, it looks like it may take him a while to really get going. If he's not pitching great before September I would just forget about him. I like Chapman, Burton, and maybe even Fisher more than Isringhausen.

Word. I have heard little and have seen nothing of him. I just think that the intent when they signed him was for him to be here for the stretch run -- maybe I'm wrong about that tho. And you might be right, we might have others that are flat our better, or that we trust now that we didn't when we signed Isringhasen.

big boy
08-07-2010, 04:55 PM
This was proposed here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/419917-cincinnati-reds-five-options-to-replace-francisco-cordero) a while back.

Hondo
08-07-2010, 06:54 PM
NNNNNNOOOOOO

Batters are hitting .341 VS homer on his 1st 15 pitches (.423 OBP)

Pitches 16-30 they hit .293


Homers 1st inning is his worst

If Homer just went out and threw 2 pitches... one being his Mid 90's Fastball... Attacking Hitters...

He could set up or close... He just cannot go out there trying to get in a game plan of each hitter with the mentality of lasting 6-7 Innings...

He goes out for 1 and gives it the GAS.

757690
08-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Not a bad idea, but with Leake about to get shut down, Volquez still struggling, and Harang hurt, the Reds need Homer to be a starter.

But I could see Homer being a closer in the future if he doesn't put it together as a starter. He has the mentality and the stuff.

Old NDN
08-07-2010, 07:57 PM
Homer didn't throw any more strikes than Cordero, and I'm not a Coco fan. Cordero's nine lives are about up, and I'm afraid he's gonna hurt the Reds sooner than later. Problem is: Dusty will stick with him because he's the veteran and has earned it. I'm not sure who I would trust to throw strikes at this point....maybe Ondrusek?

Mutaman
08-07-2010, 10:39 PM
Do it. Now.

The last time I looked you wanted Harang to close. Are you jumping off his band wagon?

What inexperienced fans don't realize is that closing requires a certain mentality, you can't just designate anyone a closer. There used to be a guy named Armando Benitez who was a set up man and threw in the high 90s, striking everybody out. Everybody said make him the closer. When they made him the closer, he was terrible. Just one of many examples.

RedsFanInBama
08-08-2010, 02:16 AM
I'm all for appointing a new closer, but there are four guys in our pen right now that I would want doing it before Homer.

Maybe if Homer were groomed as a reliever for a while he could do it, but right now that doesn't appear close to happening.

Roush's socks
08-08-2010, 02:56 AM
I think Bailey will be starting for the Reds before long. Leake will need time off/ or will be shut down entirely, and Volquez is still a ?? to me. I think Harang might be done, but Bailey came back last year and looked great in his last 9 starts. Both he and the Reds might be seeing a similar situation this year.

Griffey012
08-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Not a bad idea, but with Leake about to get shut down, Volquez still struggling, and Harang hurt, the Reds need Homer to be a starter.

But I could see Homer being a closer in the future if he doesn't put it together as a starter. He has the mentality and the stuff.

Volquez struggling? That's 2 straight starts of 1 ER. His control is slowly coming back. He is gonna be fine.

Hondo
08-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Volquez struggling? That's 2 straight starts of 1 ER. His control is slowly coming back. He is gonna be fine.

I concur.

benchpress
08-08-2010, 07:22 PM
Cordero is to fat.
Who would we get that would be worth Homer?
Volquez has been coming around just fine!

Griffey012
08-08-2010, 07:37 PM
Cordero is to fat.
Who would we get that would be worth Homer?
Volquez has been coming around just fine!

The thread means put Homer as the closer, not trade him for a closer. ;)

lidspinner
08-08-2010, 09:26 PM
why are we playing coco as a closer anyhow? we pay him his money, that means he is employed by the Reds.....he should dance in the bullpen wearing only a tiki hat if Dusty asked him to.....he is getting paid dam good money and we are NOW worried about his confidence? Coco is a grown man, no dam sense in Dusty spending At Bats trying to worry about his closers confidence......

You can go read some of my previous posts from years past, I HATE the role of closer....you are basically paying a guy to pitch the 9th inning, even if the 9th inning is batters 7-8-9.....The role of closer was just another way for the union to justify paying another pitcher big money.....my opinion is you pitch your best pitcher at the time during the most crucial late inning situation....so in the 7th inning you get 2 on and Albert P comes up, then you yank your starter and put in your best to face their best....then go from there.....

nothing I hate more is to have a 1 run lead and watch it slip away because we throw in some no name to relieve our starter in the 6-7th inning and he screws it all up.....NOW, this year that has not happened much, our pen is good from top to bottom....but no need for coco to be limited to only the 9th inning.....and no need for Masset or Ondrusek or Arthur to be limited to the 6-7-8 innings......lets let out best pitchers pitch in the best situations for them....

its a really easy concept. but no team has the nuggets to do it.....they are afraid of hurting a pitchers feelings.

Griffey012
08-08-2010, 11:26 PM
why are we playing coco as a closer anyhow? we pay him his money, that means he is employed by the Reds.....he should dance in the bullpen wearing only a tiki hat if Dusty asked him to.....he is getting paid dam good money and we are NOW worried about his confidence? Coco is a grown man, no dam sense in Dusty spending At Bats trying to worry about his closers confidence......

You can go read some of my previous posts from years past, I HATE the role of closer....you are basically paying a guy to pitch the 9th inning, even if the 9th inning is batters 7-8-9.....The role of closer was just another way for the union to justify paying another pitcher big money.....my opinion is you pitch your best pitcher at the time during the most crucial late inning situation....so in the 7th inning you get 2 on and Albert P comes up, then you yank your starter and put in your best to face their best....then go from there.....

nothing I hate more is to have a 1 run lead and watch it slip away because we throw in some no name to relieve our starter in the 6-7th inning and he screws it all up.....NOW, this year that has not happened much, our pen is good from top to bottom....but no need for coco to be limited to only the 9th inning.....and no need for Masset or Ondrusek or Arthur to be limited to the 6-7-8 innings......lets let out best pitchers pitch in the best situations for them....

its a really easy concept. but no team has the nuggets to do it.....they are afraid of hurting a pitchers feelings.

First off, if Pujols comes up with 2 guys on in the 7th you walk him and face Holiday no questions ask, well at least I would.

The closer by committee process seems good hypothetically but no team has yet to successfully employ it.

sivman17
08-09-2010, 12:20 AM
The closer by committee process seems good hypothetically but no team has yet to successfully employ it.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tim_marchman/07/09/closer.committee/index.html

Summary: Braves and Rays both used closer by committee last year, successfully.

RedsFanInBama
08-09-2010, 12:28 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tim_marchman/07/09/closer.committee/index.html

Summary: Braves and Rays both used closer by committee last year, successfully.

As of that article being published, the Braves duo had converted 19 saves in 24 opportunities. If that's success, how can we complain about Cordero?

Griffey012
08-09-2010, 12:41 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tim_marchman/07/09/closer.committee/index.html

Summary: Braves and Rays both used closer by committee last year, successfully.

I haven't even read the article but the Braves had Rafael Soriano shutting the door for a majority of last season, including the whole 2nd half IIRC, at least he picked up a lot of saves on my fantasy team. And that was after their original closer Mike Gonzalez was injured. Then they both went and picked up closers in the off-season for some reason.

Update: I just read the article and didn't realize Soriano and Gonzalez split saves early on. Nevertheless Soriano has a .200 or less opponents batting average over the last 5 seasons as a reliever, 3.5 before this article, and Gonzalez was once a shutdown closer. We don't have 2 guys with that kinda track record and that kinda stuff. The rays closed by committee to an extent but Howell still shouldered half the load, they also were pretty poor overall with 22 blown saves, which is significantly more than we are on pace for even with Cordero.

mu4103
08-09-2010, 12:43 AM
It's too late in the season to be experimenting with Bailey. The Reds can try some of their other relievers - if for no other reason than to give Cordero a break (seems like the rest of the Reds are benefiting from a "mental break".

GIDP
08-09-2010, 12:51 AM
The issue really isnt closer by committee. Its just going with a cheap closer and spending the cash somewhere else. Even if Mariano Rivera is worth his paycheck, having a cheap closer and a stud SS or a some other position player or 2 even probably is worth more wins over the course of a season than worrying about what your closer does.

Reds have lost 3 games that Cordero has blown. Hes lost 1 game that he came in with the score tied. Rivera has blown 2 games, Yankees lost both of them. The basic difference between Cordero and Rivera so far this year has been maybe 1 or 2 games. If you can find a cheaper solution that is Cordero's level or maybe even worse then you have to think 12 million is spent in a better elsewhere.

RedsFanInBama
08-09-2010, 12:53 AM
I agree 100% with that. Spending that much money on a closer doesn't make all that much sense for any team, but especially for the Cincinnati Reds. The problem is somebody gave this guy a ridiculous contract and we're stuck with it through 2011. I don't see our FO biting the bullet on that.

Griffey012
08-09-2010, 01:02 AM
The issue really isnt closer by committee. Its just going with a cheap closer and spending the cash somewhere else. Even if Mariano Rivera is worth his paycheck, having a cheap closer and a stud SS or a some other position player or 2 even probably is worth more wins over the course of a season than worrying about what your closer does.

Reds have lost 3 games that Cordero has blown. Hes lost 1 game that he came in with the score tied. Rivera has blown 2 games, Yankees lost both of them. The basic difference between Cordero and Rivera so far this year has been maybe 1 or 2 games. If you can find a cheaper solution that is Cordero's level or maybe even worse then you have to think 12 million is spent in a better elsewhere.

I agree with that assessment entirely. At the time of the Cordero signing we didn't have the organizational depth the create a good or deep bullpen. And we probably gained 5+ wins the last 2 years by having Cordero because the rest of our bullpen was not very strong, and he was able to bolster it. Now we have the depth and the power arms. We have a number of potential in house options, when before our best option was Weathers.

Certain teams in certain situations can gain a ton by bringing in an expensive closer, we gained a ton across the bullpen the past 2 seasons but not so much this season, the Rays have gained a ton this year with Soriano.

The problem is we already signed Cordero to that deal under a previous GM. We are going to pay the deal because nobody wants to take it, thus we are going to have CoCo in our bullpen somewhere.

Hondo
08-09-2010, 03:25 AM
I think you guys are all wrong. The Cordero signing addresed a specific need at the time, although the Reds over paid for Cordero... But would he have signed with the Reds for less?

He was coming off a year where he saved 44 Games with a 2.98 ERA, having Blown 7 Saves while striking OUT 86, walking only 18 in only 63.1 Innings...

This team needed to have an experienced Closer to shut down games not only because every win was precious at the time, the team had been losing for 7 straight Seasons.

The other thing is that it allowed the Reds to develop a Bullpen around Cordero. Adding a Jeremy Affeldt, an Arthur Rhodes, trading for Nick Masset over the years while developing guys like Bray, Burton, Ondruesk, Smith, etc...

Adding Cordero was a starting Point to develop a BullPen...

At the time, he was possibly the best Closer on the Market. I know he is walking to many and needs to find his release point again. I know these games especially now are sooooo very Important. But here's the deal. This team needs to have Cordero back on track going into the final 2 months of the season...

Also, another year of Cordero Closing, and we will see Donnie Joseph and his Blazing left handed arm here to take over for him hopefully by 2012.

So anyhow... thats my 2 cents...

Oh, and he had a 2.16 ERA last year and saved 39/43 Games so don't hate on him so easily.